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    Thread: Sexual urges get in the way of meditation

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      Sexual urges get in the way of meditation

      Hey guys,

      Sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, feel free to move it
      I've recently started meditating, and I really enjoy it! It's benefiting me already.
      However, both times I've meditated in the last 24 hours, something gets in the way, last night especially. I was sitting meditating to a meditation guide when I felt like I was floating with OOBE-like vibrations, and I was visually hallucinating, although not very vividly. This is a big thing for me as I have never had these audio/visual hallucinations, it was awesome! It was like a faint pattern of these purples blobs patterning across my vision. Anyway, this got me excited, but I tried to keep my cool...until I was suddenly surged with loads of sexual energy. Nothing metaphysical about it - I was just suddenly, lets say horny. This has happened before when trying to OOBE, and it's really annoying as it stops you having a clear mind obviously.
      If anyone knows how to get past this, please let me know!

      Thanks,

      Calum
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      No real tips for how to get past it. One thing that has worked for me that I read in books is to acknowledge the feeling but tell yourself that you'll deal with it later, for right now there are more important things to do.

      The sexual urge plays a massive part in this for me in Lucid Dream and OBE states and it's hard to deal with, sometimes you just lose control completely and other times you're able to control it. Try telling yourself, "Right, I can see you there and we'll deal with that later on, but right now we have stuff to do".

      Good luck.

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      Haha I have this problem from time to time as well

      Focus on the breathing and take deep breaths and the sexual feeling will slowly get calm again.

      Meditation truly is a practice of controling both the body and the mind xD

      --> wopps..
      Last edited by MasterMind; 10-08-2012 at 10:38 AM.

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      By policy this thread should go in f96. I think that forum should be given a more prominent place so people can find it though.

      I'm skeptical that hallucinations are an improvement over masterbation, even if they're more enjoyable.

      I don't think any of the creators of meditation guides understand where their practices actually lead. Nobody examines the validity of the common assertions about that.

      As I see it, one purpose of passive meditation is to make a person easier for a god or a guru to manipulate, by making a person sensitive to psychic influences but not able to reason for themselves.

      In my view it may be better for most of us not to meditate, but to develop our minds through the course of everyday living, which naturally involves spiritual subjects which can only be dealt with through something like meditation. Maybe its like weight training. Its OK in moderation, but if you don't know what you're doing you can injure yourself, and in this case it doesn't appear to me that anyone knows what they're doing. Ramana Maharshi would be a good example of this. People think he was really advanced, because he went into a trance and allowed bugs to partially eat his leg. Is this really a good idea, to short circuit the body's built in feedback mechanisms, and experience pleasure without doing any of the things that normally produce pleasure? Suppose there was a drug that reliably provided intense happiness with no adverse health effects, and without ever losing its potency. That drug would be a curse, people would just stay stoned all the time and waste away to nothing. I don't see how meditation is different. People believe that their meditative pleasures are 'higher' than gross sensual pleasures, but I don't see that they're healthier.

      None of this completely addresses the problem of lust though. Somehow a person still has to make choices about what to do about it. And its not something I have figured out either.

      Its clear to me that at some point lust has to go. Ultimately it just doesn't make any sense to desire to have sex 10,000 times a life, when two or three times is enough for children if your body is working well. And the excessive nature of the desire colors everything and causes all kinds of trouble. This doesn't mean that its something that individuals can radically change though. We share a genome, and some stuff is just a part of being an animal in our world. Likewise for killing and eating things. How much can we change as individuals, and when is it counterproductive to try to change too much?

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      By policy this thread should go in f96. I think that forum should be given a more prominent place so people can find it though.
      Where is it? I looked around and don't see f96.

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I'm skeptical that hallucinations are an improvement over masterbation, even if they're more enjoyable.
      Then what do you think of lucid dreaming, as it consists of the same "stuff" that hallucinations are made of, and is generally used for enjoyment?

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I don't think any of the creators of meditation guides understand where their practices actually lead. Nobody examines the validity of the common assertions about that.
      +

      I subscribe to an opinion that to think of this stuff you have to go through the period of initial chaos. If you have any interest in these things, what you run into first at our day and age are various "guides" and most popular books. But it's like any period in life, too little knowledge on the topic and too much information, until years pass and you've studied enough about such and related topics to decide what you want, why, and how to get it.

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      By policy this thread should go in f96. I think that forum should be given a more prominent place so people can find it though.

      I'm skeptical that hallucinations are an improvement over masterbation, even if they're more enjoyable.

      I don't think any of the creators of meditation guides understand where their practices actually lead. Nobody examines the validity of the common assertions about that.

      As I see it, one purpose of passive meditation is to make a person easier for a god or a guru to manipulate, by making a person sensitive to psychic influences but not able to reason for themselves.

      In my view it may be better for most of us not to meditate, but to develop our minds through the course of everyday living, which naturally involves spiritual subjects which can only be dealt with through something like meditation. Maybe its like weight training. Its OK in moderation, but if you don't know what you're doing you can injure yourself, and in this case it doesn't appear to me that anyone knows what they're doing. Ramana Maharshi would be a good example of this. People think he was really advanced, because he went into a trance and allowed bugs to partially eat his leg. Is this really a good idea, to short circuit the body's built in feedback mechanisms, and experience pleasure without doing any of the things that normally produce pleasure? Suppose there was a drug that reliably provided intense happiness with no adverse health effects, and without ever losing its potency. That drug would be a curse, people would just stay stoned all the time and waste away to nothing. I don't see how meditation is different. People believe that their meditative pleasures are 'higher' than gross sensual pleasures, but I don't see that they're healthier.

      None of this completely addresses the problem of lust though. Somehow a person still has to make choices about what to do about it. And its not something I have figured out either.

      Its clear to me that at some point lust has to go. Ultimately it just doesn't make any sense to desire to have sex 10,000 times a life, when two or three times is enough for children if your body is working well. And the excessive nature of the desire colors everything and causes all kinds of trouble. This doesn't mean that its something that individuals can radically change though. We share a genome, and some stuff is just a part of being an animal in our world. Likewise for killing and eating things. How much can we change as individuals, and when is it counterproductive to try to change too much?
      What?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Intfere View Post
      Where is it? I looked around and don't see f96.
      On the forums page, its under Religion/Spirituality under Extended Discussions. There isn't much posted there though, in part because its so hard to find. Or type Inner Sanctum into your browser.

      Quote Originally Posted by Intfere View Post
      Then what do you think of lucid dreaming, as it consists of the same "stuff" that hallucinations are made of, and is generally used for enjoyment?
      Yes, I think its the same kind of thing, if you approach it that way. And I don't lucid dream any more for that reason, I find other dreaming to be more interesting.

      My point wasn't that masterbation is bad. But meditation is usually pitched as being a path to enlightenment.

      Generally speaking, I think that pursuing things for enjoyment is kind of backwards. Good things are usually enjoyable. But if your motive is the enjoyment, you're not likely to see the true nature of what you're doing, the motive is myopic. And in the long run this leads to suffering. Recreational drugs are a good example. Sex is a good example. Its wonderfully fun to screw your lover, but if its the pleasure of the experience that motivates you, you forget about whether you're being honest with the other person, and you start telling them whatever produces the reaction that you want. Or you forget to notice whether they're doing that with you, and eventually someone gets hurt. Plus you slowly lose your compassion, you forget about the other person and only notice how things seem to be on the surface. Eventually that starts to warp too, and your appetites get visibly uglier and uglier. Fashion is a good example of this. The beauty and health of a person is reflected in the beauty of their appearance. Then people forget about that and start doing everything they can for the sake of the appearance, without regard for the well being of what's underneath. Then the sense of surface beauty gets all distorted, and it becomes stylish for models to be grotesquely thin and wear makeup that makes it look like they've been strung out and haven't slept for a week.

      Quote Originally Posted by Intfere View Post
      I subscribe to an opinion that to think of this stuff you have to go through the period of initial chaos. If you have any interest in these things, what you run into first at our day and age are various "guides" and most popular books. But it's like any period in life, too little knowledge on the topic and too much information, until years pass and you've studied enough about such and related topics to decide what you want, why, and how to get it.
      I agree with that. I guess that how well it pans out depends on what your ambition is though. I'm halfway through my life already, and its fairly clear that nobody understands how to get what I want. Other people destroy themselves during their initial exploration. I think its better if we're honest with ourselves and each other about what we've been through, rather than trying to sell something. Then the next generation doesn't have to wander confused through quite as much BS before they get their lives sorted out.

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      Quote Originally Posted by LucidDreamer09 View Post
      Hey guys,

      Sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, feel free to move it
      I've recently started meditating, and I really enjoy it! It's benefiting me already.
      However, both times I've meditated in the last 24 hours, something gets in the way, last night especially. I was sitting meditating to a meditation guide when I felt like I was floating with OOBE-like vibrations, and I was visually hallucinating, although not very vividly. This is a big thing for me as I have never had these audio/visual hallucinations, it was awesome! It was like a faint pattern of these purples blobs patterning across my vision. Anyway, this got me excited, but I tried to keep my cool...until I was suddenly surged with loads of sexual energy. Nothing metaphysical about it - I was just suddenly, lets say horny. This has happened before when trying to OOBE, and it's really annoying as it stops you having a clear mind obviously.
      If anyone knows how to get past this, please let me know!

      Thanks,

      Calum
      Your sensitivity to energy is impressive. You may want to look into reading some books...

      This is one I find extremely helpful. It is very practical and very in depth.
      Moon over Water: The Path Of Meditation: Jessica MacBeth,Pat Pilkington: 9780717133895: Amazon.com: Books

      Also, keep your breathing steady and deep. When you experience things, you should let them pass through you. Once you latch onto something, it can become a great distraction.
      hope that helps. Meditation is awesome!

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      Generally speaking, I think that pursuing things for enjoyment is kind of backwards. Good things are usually enjoyable. But if your motive is the enjoyment, you're not likely to see the true nature of what you're doing, the motive is myopic. And in the long run this leads to suffering. Recreational drugs are a good example. Sex is a good example.
      I see your point. Although lately I keep thinking that it would be presumtious of me to decide for others what's good for them, so if somebody wants to do something for enjoyment, why not. We all live a short life, and it's the preference that counts. After all, if your goal is pretty much impossible to grasp, why would you go advising others to make it theirs? And who's better off, somebody who lived a good life never contemplating it, or somebody who tried to go for it and failed?

      These questions could be well answered within the tenets of some teaching, but tenets aren't my cup of tea. They stifle the spirit of truth-hunting by providing answers for questions that couldn't be answered right away if you looked at them honestly.

      Another extreme would be an equal "evil", if you somehow imagined that you were the only one doing things right, and all others were ordinary people with ordinary thoughts and interests.

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I guess that how well it pans out depends on what your ambition is though. I'm halfway through my life already, and its fairly clear that nobody understands how to get what I want.
      Not sure what you wanted to say. Are you saying you don't know how to get it or people around don't know?

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I think its better if we're honest with ourselves and each other about what we've been through, rather than trying to sell something. Then the next generation doesn't have to wander confused through quite as much BS before they get their lives sorted out.
      I believe that people who try to sell something are completely honest most of the time, in their own way. It's not money that is often the factor, after all, it's attention and the feeling of self-worth. And I believe for those to work one has to be confident that he or she really rocks.

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      I'm not going point by point here, because I'm on my phone....

      I certainly would not advise other people to try to approach life the way I do. It has significant drawbacks even for me, and of course other people have different needs. I also wouldn't say to anyone 'you should not live for pleasure' or 'don't live for pleasure'. Maybe living for pleasure is who they are, for good and ill. But it's also true that living for pleasure has a price, and it's possible to understand a lot about what it is and why, for whatever that may be worth.

      I'd go so far as to say that almost everything in the spirituality section of the bookstore is dishonest, in one way or another. The people who write the books may believe what they say, but in cycles life tends to confront us with opportunities to see what we're wrong about. And in my observation the people who see themselves as knowledgeable enough to write books on these subjects almost always choose to hold onto that perception when faced with an opportunity to discover their own foolishness. Dig deep enough, and pretty much every teaching rests on intentional disinformation. Not a sunny thing to say I know, but that's what I've found on every occasion that I've tested that. It shouldn't seem too surprising, there aren't any honest peddlers of miracle cures for the same reason.

      At the same time, a person needs mental food, and there are useful ideas plowed in with all the BS.

      Maybe a good analogy is the way cocaine was included in baby food a hundred years ago, and even now starch is sold as baby formula in Africa. It seems too horrible to be true, but facing it is the first step in doing something about it.

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      I'm as far from wanting to defend random people I don't know as possible, but

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      The people who write the books may believe what they say, but in cycles life tends to confront us with opportunities to see what we're wrong about.
      And then another cycle of life confronts you with an opportunity to see that your latest revelation was wrong, too! And then the same cycle happens, and you know that your very last revelation was equally wrong. It's a never ending cycle, and it consistently devalues all your previous ideas. Until maybe a moment comes when you realize you don't know a dime for certain and all you ever thought of was fake in its own way. But if it doesn't, it's like a mouse running in a treadmill, so who's to say which of your ideas are wrong and which are right? That's why I don't believe anybody is intentionally deceiving others most of the time.

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      Quote Originally Posted by LucidDreamer09 View Post
      Sexual urges get in the way of meditation.
      Empty your sacks before you meditate...
      Alucinor XIII and Linkzelda like this.

      Please click on the links below, more techniques under investigation to come soon...


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      Quote Originally Posted by mcwillis View Post
      Empty your sacks before you meditate...
      ^This. Haha.

      But really, it does help. It also can relax you, which is also a plus...


      ShadowofWind: Not trying to talk down on your (I swear) but I think your views of meditation are a little skewed. I can see what your saying in regards to Monks-- they meditate for hours on end. But for the average person, meditation is a once a day for maybe half an hour to an hour thing.

      And more importantly, anyone doing meditation specifically for pleasure is going about it all wrong anyway. In most teachings, it is meant as a way to put away all distractions and really, deeply explore the soul/conscience. To understand your misconceptions, preconceptions, your flaws, your strengths, your feelings-- to really get in touch with yourself. Its all about insight.

      And this doesn't necessarily take hours upon hours of meditation per session-- most people will agree that what is really important is holding on the schedule of one, maybe two short meditations a day. Its meant as a tool for understanding yourself and your perceptions of reality-- that in itself is a worthwhile cause.

      If one is doing it it just for pleasure, then I think one's efforts would be better spent in a more effective means of pleasing the self, via sex, drugs, whatever.
      Rawr!

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      Here's one example of what I mean by deception. Mary Baker Eddy founded Christian Science, which was a fairly big New Age movement in its day, though its not usually called New Age now since it has been 150 years already. She taught that seeking medical attention was a grave error, and that all illness could be cured through faith. Naturally Christian Science practitioners were there to help with that, for a specified amount of 'gift' money per session. And so Mary Baker Eddy made her fortune. In later years she herself had serious health issues which were not cured by her practice, and which were kept secret to avoid undermining her credibility. You might say that she wasn't intentionally deceiving people, because she believed her teaching. I say she was deceiving them, because she intentionally hid facts that would inform people's judgments about her teaching. Moreover her theology was geared towards preying on frightened people, at a grave cost to a great many of them. How she represented that to herself, whether she formed deceptive partitions within her own mind or not, doesn't fundamentally change what she was doing.

      This is just one case, but I could pretty much run through the whole tree of religious thought. Its harder with the more ancient teachers because time has eroded the evidence, but we can watch how predatory cults transform into respected religions even in our own time, and how the past is obscured.

      Your cycle of wrong revelations doesn't describe what I see. Newton's mechanics isn't overturned by Einstein's, it is modified or extended by it. Moreover the 'truth' of neither is based on faith, they're true as far as they go based on their own internal logic, irrespective of how well they apply to the physical world and irrespective of what other exotic undreamed of possibilities there are beyond them. Understanding a lot of other stuff is like that too, if you seek to understand what is belief and what is knowledge and your will is to be honest with yourself, mistakes notwithstanding. If your will isn't to be honest with yourself, then its another story though.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alucinor XIII View Post
      ShadowofWind: Not trying to talk down on your (I swear) but I think your views of meditation are a little skewed....
      I don't disagree with anything you say here. Partially a matter of different emphasis, partially you're saying what I was trying to say.

      What you're talking about contrasts with what I meant by 'passive meditation', where a person just zones out on a candle or something. And even then for most people it probably mostly amounts to relaxing for a few minutes. I don't know that we're talking to or about average people though.
      Alucinor XIII likes this.

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      Ah, okay. I see what you were getting at now. Absorptive Meditation vs Mindfulness meditation?

      Yeah, Trances aren't particularly useful. they're sorta neat in the sense that you can alter your consciousness in that way, but ultimately not helpful.
      Rawr!

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I say she was deceiving them, because she intentionally hid facts that would inform people's judgments about her teaching.
      I agree that she was deceiving people, unless she believed that despite all facts she still thought that her healing worked. That's something we cannot know.

      I think it stems from difference in personalities. You're a type of person for whom it's unthinkable that inability to cure illness could be kept hidden with good conscience, even if one believes it's not related to healing abilities. But she may have been confident that they aren't related, if she was a fanatic and not a money-maker. I don't condone such behavior, but from her own point of view it could be ok.

      I've met lots of people who never hear you when you present them a counter-example to their believes. Even if it's a fact. They will find an excuse for it and paint it as an exception and an anomaly. These people are fanatical about their own believes. Sometimes you have a feeling that they don't see the real world and people around, but perceive everything through unshakable images in their own head.

      If that's the case, I wouldn't blame them, because they can do nothing about how they think and feel. In court practice insane person who couldn't control her or his behavior is different from somebody who killed in full conscience. I can't blame people who can't control what they are and what they believe in. Although I admit it can be very annoying and their actions can lead to real evil.

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      Your cycle of wrong revelations doesn't describe what I see. Newton's mechanics isn't overturned by Einstein's, it is modified or extended by it. Moreover the 'truth' of neither is based on faith, they're true as far as they go based on their own internal logic, irrespective of how well they apply to the physical world and irrespective of what other exotic undreamed of possibilities there are beyond them.
      I love science, too, it's so orderly and seems to be progressing all the time. It's a beautiful thing. But our normal believes and matters aren't like that, they're founded mostly on things that can't be objectively true, like ethics or our own desires and preferences and personal experience.

      And here I see differences in personalities, too, between you and me. You seem to believe strongly in your opinions about ethics, and I'm more on a wavering side. Opinions that can't be proven absolutely can always turn out to be untrue.

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      This may seem like an odd response, but you were actually onto something. You may not want to stop this, if you can figure out what it is for.

      First of all, let me hit you with this... Meditation and all that; it has to do with energies right? Well, how much energy do you think it takes to create life? There's a reason fighters often abstain from sex many days before a fight. The energy draining effects of orgasm can last up to 30 days.

      So as you reach this new stage in your meditation practices, you sort of attain a new level and suddenly, a rush of energy enters your body and goes straight to your no-no's. This is where some of the hardest discipline comes into play for adepts and masters. There are energy points in your body, or chakras/sephiroths/what have you. The one in your groin is the generative point. Makes sense, right? You generate more people by bumping the generative areas together a bit, yeah? So just like a piece of metal touched to a live wire, as you get closer to that transcendant experience of oneness, you absorb the energy from it. As the energy fills each point, you can be damn right your generative energy point will be filling up nicely; hence your arousal.

      The next step is to learn channeling. If the generative (or sexual) energy is allowed to build, the meditator will become distracted and antsy. However, when one learns how to channel the flow of the energy, so that the energy stored in the generative point cycles through the whole body; similar to how you want your blood to circulate all through your body. Once you master this, you will suddenly feel good... REALLY good. This is because the energy swirling in your generative point will have been channeled to flow through all your other body's points and then back to the generative point. This gives the meditator a feeling that is most often described as a "full body orgasm." However, we'll let the Tantra folk decide on what to call it I guess. =P

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      Quote Originally Posted by Feorgemynd View Post
      Meditation and all that; it has to do with energies right? Well, how much energy do you think it takes to create life?
      Physically, the information needed for the creation of a human body takes almost no energy at all. Spiritually, there is clearly energy involved in the sense that potential destiny is in play, but I don't see that it follows that a scarce resource is being 'lost' during sex. Physical metaphors for having and not having something may be misleading in this context? Can you distinguish losing something during sex from feeling like you're losing something because you've conditioned yourself to think about it that way? I don't think the teachings of yogis can be trusted on this subject, they've been wrong about too many other things.

      I don't mean that I think you're wrong. I mean that I can't tell for myself one way or the other, after years of paying attention to this, and I would like to know the truth. I'd like to know what other people experience. But a lot of people seem to just be repeating what they've read, or drawing conclusions from their experiences without much attempt at critical discernment. So I'd like to try to separate that out.

      Quote Originally Posted by Feorgemynd View Post
      There's a reason fighters often abstain from sex many days before a fight.
      And there are also many athletes who compete at a world-class level who do not abstain.

      Quote Originally Posted by Feorgemynd View Post
      Once you master this, you will suddenly feel good.
      For me, the easiest way to do this is to think about my capacity to feel, which can be built to a sort of avalanche of pleasurable feeling. I don't typically do this though, it seems pointless or gimmicky or something, not truly healthful or developmental.

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      By Lomebririon in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: 06-07-2004, 12:08 AM

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