I mean really what's the difference??
google results only confused me more :?
If you have a simple way to describe the differences (if there are any), please help :)
and sorry if this has been discussed before.
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I mean really what's the difference??
google results only confused me more :?
If you have a simple way to describe the differences (if there are any), please help :)
and sorry if this has been discussed before.
Moved to Beyond dreaming.
I see you have already had some LDs. I would recommend to read some OBE/AP websites and compare your LD experience to descriptions of OBE/AP experiences. I especially like Jurgen Ziewe's Multidimentional man book with detailed descriptions of his travels through different dimentions.
astraldynamics
multidimensional man
astral info
Do you WILD? If yes, the induction is very similar to induction of OBE. Maybe you can try. It's best to compare your own experiences.
OBEs and astral projection are different words for the same thing. Lucid dreaming is conscious dreaming, and lucid dreams can usually be controlled. There are debates on if they are the same thing, but a lot of people believe during an AP/OBE they are leaving their body and seeing the world through their spirit, and some people believe they are going to a different dimension. I have never had an OBE, so I can't tell you if I believe they are different, and even if I did I wouldn't expect anyone to agree with my opinion or even believe me. It's better to experience everything yourself and then make your own opinions.
The term OBE Out of Body Experience is a generic term like UFO. It can be applied to any experience in which you seem to be out of your body. It can apply to experiences that would be Etherial, as in floating around in ghost like form in the world as we know it. It can also apply to Astral experiences, which involve travel to other dimensions. So AP is going to another dimension or realm and can be called a form of OBE. However, floating around your house is Etherial. It can also be called OBE, but should not be called AP.
What ever really happens, I am experienced with both. There is a very high degree of interconnectedness between either of these and lucid dreams. I presonally do believe they represent mystical experiences, but the enrty methods are the same as LDs. The way events unfold and things work, is very much like an LD.
There are two explainations the way I see it. 1) All of them are weird forms of LDs. 2) All of them use a similar portion of the brain and similar processes are used in all. Thus creating the seeming interconnectedness.
Do you mind if I ask you, can you identify a moment in your WILD attempt, when it's decided where you gonna end up (LD, physical world OBE or astral AP)? Can you decide where you want to end up? Or your preparation is different depending on which destination you want?Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
I have heard, that it's just a matter of awareness level, which decides on our destination. Can it have something to do with vibrational frequency? The higher the frequency, higher astral plane you will reach?
I am sure it must have something to do with vibrational stuff, as most of the universe involves such things, but I am not sure I understand the details in that sense. It is actually just a matter of focus and intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by gab
In order to have an etherial experience you use the purposed destination as the anchor for your WILD. You replace annoying concious thought with the visualization of you looking at a scene in the world. This intent and focus seems to prevent AP and instead projects a portion of your awareness outward in the physical world. In some sense this is more 'far seeing' as I am sure a major part of you stays intact in your body. It seems to be that you extend a tendril of spirit out side of your self that has sensory capacity.
In order to create an AP experience you turn your focus inside with the feeling that when you reach the core of what you are inside you will continue going deeper and thereby leave the physical world. Try to imagine having the same focus you use for normal sight, but it is turned inward. Now the anchor used in the WILD is a sense of motion and and travel, but it is directed at the very center of your being, with the expectation that you will reach something like a sci-fi worm hole. The door way to AP seems to exist in a space one step deeper than dreaming. If I end up in a normal LD before I reach a realm outside of my own mind, I will simply fly upward or forward. This part is odd, but you can transition from an LD into AP through the same process I just described. Maybe you see and feel a dream body due to having hit LD before reaching AP. You still just picture that you are moving towards, looking towards a point at the center of your being and that you will be able to continue past the edge of that thing you think of as your own inner realm.
I am not sure if that makes enough sense. Feel free to ask more if I did not describe it clearly enough. It is so hard to translate mystical experiences into rational speech.
My latest belief is that dreams and out-of-body experiences are, at the core, not distinguishable from each other. That is to say, that all dreams are out-of-body experiences, and all out-of-body experiences (though I suppose it'd be fair to limit the definition to those naturally induced) are dreams. I used to say that they were different experiences, but I now only think of that as on the whole. I thought that because I used to think that a dream was limited to REM sleep, but my views have changed since in my research I found that dreams do not require REM, nor does REM necessarily imply dreaming. My understanding is that states such as REM, non-REM, and waking consciousness are just various states of mind, and dreams/out-of-body experiences are generated by a single process. They are then colored by the differences in those mental states and the ways in which they are induced and in which awareness is focused.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
Blocking the dopaminergic areas of the brain, particularly those in the limbic system, will block the formation of dreams, the psychotic effects of mental disorders such as schizophrenia, and the effects of hallucinogenic drugs. I'm not aware of any official tests which tests antipsychotic efficacy against an out-of-body experience measured in a waking state, but I would be shocked if they didn't end up with the same results. Dopamine really does seem to be at the heart of all non-physical experiences if you ask me, even in just visualization if my understanding is correct. It's because of this that I believe these all to truly be the same process simply being stacked against different aspects of the brain at different levels of being awake or asleep, or against different induced or unusual neurochemical balances.
That's not to say that I don't think those different states of mind can make for some significant changes in the subjective experience, but I do think that they are the same at the base. So to answer the original post, if you ask me a lucid dream is an out-of-body experience and an astral projection where you're consciously aware of what's going on is a lucid dream. However, that doesn't mean that any experience induced by any method or in any level of consciousness should be considered completely interchangeable.