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    Thread: Is OOBE an INTERNAL experience?

    1. #1
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      Is OOBE an INTERNAL experience?

      We are so used to the terminology like "OUT of the body experience" that we don't even question things anymore. To be honest, I'm really doubting that OOBE happens OUT there. It makes more sense for me to believe that it happens inside of our heads, just as anything else. A few thoughts:

      • The world as we know it (so called reality) consists of space, time, colors, shapes, sounds, etc. All those elements do not exist independently from our 5 senses. The fact that we see the world as 3-dimensional full-color surround-sound video is because we have eyes, ears, nose, tongue, tactile sense, and a brain that puts it all together and transform into a believable picture of reality. Hence, if we were to truly travel OUT of the body, we would probably see the world in a completely different way. There would be no shapes, no colors, no space, no sounds, no tactile sensations, etc. The fact, that during an OOBE we perceive the world as we normally would suggests that our experience has to do with a regular brain activity and brain memory. Given this is true, OOBE is really no proof for live after death, because traveling out of the body would not be possible without physical brain and all the memories contained in it.
      • The fact that in OOBE we can perceive things from the real world and later verify our observations does not prove traveling OUT of the body. Remote viewing allows for the same results, just as regular dreams - both happen without leaving the body. This means, that OOBE might be just a dream - a special state of consciousness - in which we can successfully perceive the elements of the real world.


      Just sharing my thoughts. Let me know what you think

    2. #2
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      Isn't it really the same for our reality? That it is more likely to be in our heads, well perhaps not created by our heads but simulated through our heads.

      Robert Monroe said that we are not even in our physical bodies in the first place, only our consciousness is, which is a little hard to grasp because then we have to ask what is consciousness. But I like to use the analogy of a human being and a big aquarium.

      This is an example brought forward by Stephen Hawkings the theoretical physicist, however he didn't used this analogy to explain that astral travel, obe, souls and other spirituality was likely or proven, he actually used it to understand the field of science. But here I will try to make it a possible theory for accepting existence of things outside our own understanding.

      Anyway, let's pretend that there were a big fish society in the aquarium and that they had fish-scientists, fish-religions, and fish physics.
      And that the fishes didn't knew about the world above the sea, although to make this more likely let's say that it's not just an aquarium we are talking about, but in fact the whole ocean. So there are therefore even fish countries, governments etc.

      But imagine that one little fish then suddenly was brougt up of the water by a little boy, who puts that fish in a glassbowl. But then after some days the family decide that they want to let the little fish free again. How would this fish (let's call him Nemo) Explain this world to his little society?
      He would probably be amazed and say "I met God and angels! They gave me food that tasted like nothing before! And they showed places that you can't even imagine!
      They lived because of our universe! (water). Etc. He simply say things like this because he don't understand our world.

      But now imagine what the skeptic fishes would say! "No it's impossible... You are crazy! It breaks the rules of physics and rational understanding."

      See where I am getting with this?

      Stephen Hawkings said that we human beings are no different from this litte Nemo, and this is the way we should approach science,to understand the things that is so far called impossible.

      And well there are of course cases where human astonishment have made people come up with stories that might not be very likely to believe in.

      Like seeing angels and seeing God.

      But I just want to stress that there are probably cases where people actually did something out of the ordinary that is dismissed as spiritual rubbish.

      I mean what about Monroe, who was a pragmatic man, considered himself crazy, was already having lots of money no big reason for him to make it up etc.
      He is truly the little Nemo in my eyes, and remember that in order to make something scientific, you have to approach the matter with scientific terms.
      Like careful observation and repetition. There are lots of books with his experiences to read, but it wont really matter to you until you have your own experience, so you atleast can recognise your truth in his.

      And the fact that you can "travel" "out of body" or whatever that experience is to be called, I simply like to refer it as "attain information" that provides you with evidence that is beyond your previous knowledge is proof of something bigger and perhaps it can be called out of this world. But it is of course dependent on what kind of information you attain. I mean if I have never ever visited your house before and I then one night get an experience so I the next day can explain in perfect detail how it looks like, you can't possibly say that it's just in my head. Although if the explanation is vague the proof is vague, if the explanation is detailed and acceptable, the proof is detailed and acceptable.

      I can tell you though that so far I haven't really attained enough information and experience to conclude that there is a bigger picture, but that doesn't mean that I stop trying

      So in a sense it doesn't matter how you percieve, but what you percieve and what you do with it.
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    3. #3
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      I completely agree with Embrace . During the Middle Ages and eve today hundreds of books are printed trying to use religious concepts against the knowledge of science. Even today there are people willing to believe in concepts such as OBE as something that happens outside of our physical body. To me all these explanations are merely exercising the language to explain something that has no scientific basis.

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      there really is no way for this debate to end decisively on either sides favor. in the end you have to decide what you believe for yourself but as for me i have no doubt we are definitely not just our physical bodies or even our brains. consciousness exists completely independent of any physical parts. a better way to look at this is to not think of it as leaving at all. you simply are tuning into a higher frequency than the one you are tuned into currently here on the physical.
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      Kind of my idea on this (not saying you stole, haha, just saying I have thought this before). OBEs may be doubted, but most religions believe that dreams can be used like Galadriel's mirror (dang it... new task for me to do) and can see things that were, are, and some things that have not yet come to pass. I think that in a religious sense dreams have been used by God, but in a scientific sense, I think that time might be a little less relevant in dreams then people think.

      To explain my thought. Brains emit and receive signals.
      Spoiler for fact:

      We don't know much about them now. Yeah, we have mapped the brain, but we don't even know why we dream or need sleep, so I can easily say we don't know everything about it.
      Spoiler for my random tangent commentary:

      So why couldn't it receive things from the world around to make a picture in our minds while sleeping. For instance, seeing through eyelids is a common thing, too many people have had it to just dismiss. Where is their mind getting the information that it is obviously getting?
      This can apply to shared dreaming, AP, OBE, and remote viewing.

      So my next point is time... dejavu has been experienced by nearly everyone on earth. You saw something you could have sworn you saw before. Some people say "dreams are vague and when reality is close it makes you think you saw that before when you really saw something barely resembling that before." or"there is a chemical in the brain that is released when you feel familiar with something, sometimes it misfires, and you see something, but this time, you seem familiar with it, so you are sure you have seen it before." Lots of ideas like that.

      I think that time may have some lapses. I don't know a hundred percent what I mean, but imagine this. You turn on your radio and you receive something that has been bouncing around in the ozone for years instead of the normal channel. It is a message brought to you from the past because of information stored in waves that radios can receive (rarely). All transmission have a delay, but information encoded in waves is my point.

      Now we have the timeline of all things. When something emotional happens lets say it makes the waves bounce out in time, forward (like all waves normally go, so anything received this way would just look like a memory) and backwards in time. Normally this makes no effect, but sometimes it connects with you the right way back in time and you receive that signal early. I have had dejavu that I could tell what would happen for the next five minutes. Your brain is more open to receiving info when it is sleeping, so you get it in dreams normally.

      Not saying that I 100% believe this, it is just a theory I concocted.

      Mastermind, that is not a bad thought, change that around a bit and I could use it in a Bible teaching
      Spoiler for teaching:

      Of course I only believe in one God (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), but that is still a great illustration.

    6. #6
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      Sanctispiritus it is true that we can not know just by explaining, my point is that there got be own experience, just think about how lucid dreaming was percieved when it wasn't scientifically proven. But still who cares if it is scientifically proven if you haven't had one yourself, its's still impossible to know then, because then you are also blindly believing in the words of authority or another person.

      I have some experience myself, but I can't say that it is enough, although I have one friend who doesn't even know about the concept of OBEs but he still explains things, and because I had dreams as a school project he came to me and he said "Chris! I think I am going crazy! I flew through the floors of my appartments and I could see my neighbours watching tv etc. But I thought of it just as a dream, but then I saw things that I just couldn't explain, like I saw my girlfriend being super scared and she looked at me as I was a ghost. Then the next day she called me and said she was scared and she was crying because she had seen something she couldn't explain. What the f*ck was I experiencing? It's ok if you think I am crazy I just thought you wanted to know..." And I know this guy he wouldn't lie about sucha thing and he isn't even spiritual like me and not her girlfriend either. He have also have more and more experiences (random trips, just like Monroe!) and I saw the similarities in his explanations. Of course this is for YOU just another STORY but for me this is kind of a big deal. Still not enoguh to prove of course, but still to amaze.

      BrandonBoss thank you so much for that post. Really cool information in there!

      A little of topic: I can say that I believe in God and I can also say that I do not, I do because I believe in something, I don't because I don't think of him/ or even her (perhaps both o. O) as a person. For now I just focus on seeing the Golden Ratio in Human Body (Golden Mean in Mankind) - YouTube in everything and from that kind of make a big leap and assumption and say that "if you can understand the small things, you can start to understand the big." And everything in nature is based on this golden ratio, so to understand God (whatever we percieve that to be) we first have to start with ourselves.

      My name may be Christian, but I am can not say that I am a Christian person in the traditional sense believing that Jesus Christ walked on water, healed people becaue he was God in another form as a human in the tradional way. But rather that everything is God and God is all, so we can in a smaller perspective (us) conclude that the we are all lesser higher conscious being, but God is the collective consciousness formed (perhaps built) by everything. Ok now it does sound like a person.. But I just can't make up my mind about it, but for me it doesn't really matter right now.

      Since I have let go of the bigger picture (for now) I can now begin to focus on myself. And here is a little fun metaphor from Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol".
      SPOILER ALERT! If you plan to read the book don't read this:

      The Temple which is mentioned many times throughout the Bible, actually is reffering to the human body. Jacob's ladder means the human spine and God is the human mind! Bible Quote: "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?"

      So protect and build your holy temple, climb the Jacob's ladder and the Kingdom of God is within you, believe in God and have faith.

      Also remember important messages from other religions like "If you want to help others you first have to help yourself."

      This is not written to stop beliving in the one and holy God, but a message to make you also believe in the power of yourself.

      I hope it inspires someone.
      Last edited by MasterMind; 01-21-2013 at 08:50 AM.

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