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    Thread: Michael Raduga's The Phase?

    1. #51
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      The only awakenings I am aware of are brief awakenings after a dream finishes. I don't know if micro awakenings are the same thing or not but, after spending a while trying (unsuccessfully) to DEILD I've found the only awakenings I can be aware of are the ones after dreams. The early hours - about from 5 am to 7am - are Rem-heavy I am led to believe so surely any awakening is likely to be following a dream anyway?
      It was exactly the same case for me, just before I tried the Raduga's routine. I wasn't able to notice any micro awakening, I just automatically moving from a position to another. I don't know why but as soon as I started the Raduga's technique, it started : I was able to notice every single micro awakening, from dream or not.
      before my first night try I trained for a nap, maybe something as triggered some kind of conditioning.
      So unable to have a DEILD I was, unable to notice the micro awakening I was too, but Raduga's technique changed something in me.
      The Idea of imagining moving without doing it with the real body is not so hard, and to do this the very first moments you wake up needs only some practice and dedication. it is an automatism to achieve by making it each time you can.
      you can also train yourself to visualise during the day.

    2. #52
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      I have finished with my exams (Saturday) and I am back in trying the technique again.
      Last night I gave it another shot and I am really amazed! Another lucid!
      If things keep on like that, then this technique is the best thing that ever happened to me!
      I will go from a-Lucid-a-month to many lucids a night!
      Just a few notes on how I do it, if anyone is interested:
      -- When I go to sleep at night, I try to remain conscious for a while - not drift at once
      -- I sleep for 5-6 hours
      -- WBTB for about 15 min (toilet, water)
      -- Lay in bed, close eyes and do 2 things:
      1. Say to myself that I will wake up many times until morning, I will do the technique and succeed
      2. Imagine (pretend) with my eyes closed that I have just awaken, realized at once (and this is crucial) the awakening and do the technique for practice (once).
      -- just fall asleep
      -- at some time I find myself in bed, immediately imagine motion and that's it, I feel a strong movement and I am in a LD!
      Last edited by SearcherTMR; 12-15-2014 at 09:28 PM.
      "...what we experience is our model of reality, not reality itself. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. So it’s a constrained dream, whereas dreaming is perception free of constraint. What exactly is the difference experientially between the dream and waking state? And you see, it’s the same stuff. It’s all illusion! "Stephen LaBerge

    3. #53
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      ^^ Congrats, SearcherTMR, that's really exciting! I'm certainly interested to give this approach a shot, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

      I wonder if ATA's data can answer the question: are the micro-awakenings "real" awakenings, or false awakenings? It's possible that it may remain a theoretical question forever, since false awakenings, especially in the early few moments, feel absolutely convincingly like being awake in your bed. (I actually have the same question about DEILD chains: they very well could be a single non-interrupted REM cycle that just moves into and out of lucidity via the expectation of returning to the dream). It's a moot point, however, I'm not a sleep researcher like ATA is, I just want to be lucid a lot!

      p.s. SearcherTMR: "JINX!" (we both have 91 LDs )
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    4. #54
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      Thanks FryingMan!
      About the awakenings, I agree that they might in fact be FA. Nevertheless, there is a way to know - doing a RC before doing anything else - but this will ruin the attempt and as I am also interested in having a LD and not researching, I will not do it!
      Now, I have to go to bed for another try!
      Hey! And cool we've got 91 LDs both!
      "...what we experience is our model of reality, not reality itself. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. So it’s a constrained dream, whereas dreaming is perception free of constraint. What exactly is the difference experientially between the dream and waking state? And you see, it’s the same stuff. It’s all illusion! "Stephen LaBerge

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      These last few nights, I wasn't in the good conditions to try the technique, but I used few day naps for training myself to be aware of the micro awakenings, and to try techniques to cycle.
      I don't exprect REM dreams while naps, I nearly never have some, but this afternoon I took a nap and what I wanted to do was this:
      1) to notice several micro awakenings without any body movements
      2) to have this strange kynesthesic hallucinations I often have when I wake up : feeling something like a cat or a dog climbing on my bed, feeling that the bed is moving from this additional weight, like if something was really climbing near me, on my real bed.

      1) and 2) objectives were successful.
      First, I had at least 4 or 5 micro awakening that I immediately identified and without moving nor opening my eyes.
      At Each micro awakening, I noticed that my heart is beating a bit strong and fast.
      I tried few time to calm it down, and I achieve that faster each time.
      2) at the last micro awakening, I felt this hallucination that something or someone is climbing on my bed, but this time it was more precise:
      it was like if my real body was floating just above my bed before the awakening, and as soon as I wake up it falls on the bed. I feel the movement of the bed, as if my body was really sinking into the bed.
      I tried to amplify the sensation, I did amplified it a bit, but I guess there were no REM sleep after that, which I was expecting.

      So I am happy with what I am learning to do, I feel the progress, and even if I don't have as much success I would like to, I have the same feeling as SearcherTMR, this technique could be the one I have been searching for, for a very long time.

      SearcherTMR : congratulations for this new LD
      I will try this night, it will also be my 3d Galantamine choline use.
      I hope not to do too much mystakes .
      Last edited by Kaan; 12-15-2014 at 10:24 PM.
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    6. #56
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      FryingMan there is no easi answer for your question in my graphs there are awakenings i can measure subjectively the difference in data source but without this measurmnet i cant tell. It be possible make some simple intreface tell if it is false or normal awakening but this is not needed so far.In bouth cases cyclying of method can lead to LD and is one of best thing you can do. Little funny is if you have false awakening you can actualy create another dream and move to it or create something like simulation of OOBE.

      There is also 3 posibility combination of real and false awakening its possible it cause of moust false awakenig.It need little diffrent poit of view than normal one to understant you must thing of awakanig as activation of diffrent barin modules and senses not as one thing.If dream is not to strong or after it end this parts of normal awakneing and senses form body can be integrated or by cause of new dream.Brain try alwayes integrate inputs to one "reality" with minimal collision.

      Cycling of method is almout best thing you can do in all cases. Even try if that is false awakning not help you much becouse you lost time to try get this information.
      Normal reality chcek are no good for false awakening.
      You can cretae another layer of chnace by using motion sensor (switch ,IR webacam,accelerometer,motion detector..) give you signal if you actualy move in your bed . If you move and not hear signal it can start LD.

      Kann - the floatin sensation is cause by weak information from senses and sometime only some of them . Its likke brain have only partion information and body image is blury not have sharp borders or only one sense like poropriorception without touch activated = you feel your body position but not contact with bed usely is laso cause cration of information tah your body is above bed because your logic say tah if you on bed you must feal it.There are various multisensory integration and top dow influnces , feedback loops that create body image and whole reality frame.

    7. #57
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      ^^ Thanks for the info. It is strictly of theoretical interest: practically speaking, I would not move to RC just to get this information: if you're in a FA, you'd get lucid, but if not, then you might ruin the chances for DEILD re-entry. Actually this is great to know because I've been wondering if one had to choose between DEILD and detecting FA: if the cycles work in either case, it's a "catch-all" approach, and that's great news!
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      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    8. #58
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      Just now partial success i have about 3 FA mixed with normal awakenings and hypnapompic state nad few noraml dreams .It was after about 2,5h of sleep a WBTB for about 5min i must go somewhere and not have set alarm but still want to rest more i sete mnatal alarm. I try sleep a little but more like be in border of sleep collision of intention sleep and must get up.

      In one awakening or more like hypnapopmpic sate after while i start see drem scene but was very unstable very dim tranpsarent .. i try use hand method ind imagine hand in the image it help only partialy , next interin was manipulation with something in hands this work i manipulate with some blue cards in hand but dream was still unstable .After about 5s i see hnad and card clearly but still in bed unfortunatly i lost lucidity/not do RC .
      This was the case whre integration cannot easi ingnore signal from partialy awake body and integrate them to new dream ,when new dream is enouht stable it can block these signals from body and continue without them.

      I have many potential chances to get to LD but main prolemm was low lucidity (more like oscilating quicky) and i have no plan use method not have prepared automatism to use cycles..

      ---
      Sub-c :chance to LD in this 2,5h sleep 0,83% ( after awakening i do some changes in Sub-c ,solving some error,collisions..)
      Sub-c :chance to LD in this "WBTB" 23%
      Last edited by ATA; 12-16-2014 at 09:29 AM.
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      This night was a total failure, I had a insomnia after only one hour of sleep, it may have perturbed my sleep pattern.
      Then, few hours later I practiced a WBTB, a bit too long, and took the pill, but the Galantamine seams to have made the insomnia issue come back.
      I eventually felt asleep about one hour latter and had got tons of non lucid dreams, but incredibly stables, immersives, life-like.
      My sleep must have been too deep, so I didn't notice any micro awakening, excepted real awakening between dreams in which I change my body position.
      I had got no occasion to try the Raduga's technique this time...
      the galantamine helped me for my first try, but this time it seams that it prevented me from doing it, or it was due to the insomnia.

      ATA: about my hallucinations, I didn't mean that I have the feeling of floating above my bed, but only that something more or less loud is distorting the shape of the bed, which I feel by my body (at least I have this feeling).
      this time the "thing" that curved my bed was at the exact place my real body was.
      I guess it is some kind of distortion from the body perception, which means the REM process is upcoming, like S.Laberge tells in one of his book.
      I also had very clear and stable audio hallucinations at the beginning of the night (people having a conversation), but it stopped after about 20 seconds.
      Last edited by Kaan; 12-16-2014 at 10:47 AM.

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      I've realised that this approach seems vague to me - the approach of, after WBTB, saying I'll catch micro-awakenings. I remembered the SMART acronym (for goal setting) and wondered if it could make this approach more successful.

      Smart = Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-oriented.

      So maybe on going back to sleep after WBTB you could set a quota? An affirmation like, "I'll wake up five times before morning and catch a micro-awakening each time".

      Or, if it's based on the time-oriented part, I could actually specify the time I want to have a micro-awakening? (I can quite accurately state at what time of the night I want to wake up for WBTB and don't need an alarm.) I could make an affirmation like, "I'll wake in 15 minutes' time with a micro-awakening"?

      Has anyone tried this?
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      My LDing record, if you want to hear about it, is about 4 WILDs, 1 DEILD, and the rest DILDs.

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      I do some expediments with programing of mind and is not easi you can make lot of mess. In on of my first attempts i try make something like opretaion system in my brain and use code like afirmation .It was very similar to computer code.It work well porblems it too weel litle error in syntax in code and program dount run.It act as real pragram with all problems .I learn a lot form this but somtimes it was hard error in program running in high priority can cause strong side effects.

      Write affirmation as code is no good porgram is to stupid to be able to count with all of the circumstances and usualy stops on something or worse.

      To make good program is needet define golas and some conditions but leave enought "space" to by adaptable . Best is make somthing like artifical intelignece to it porgram can make test learn form data and improve itself.Is very complex.
      --------
      For start write condition about LD what is LD for you , sometimes is definition to fuzzy to use sugestion to achive it.
      For instance i use some sugestion for LD but i not specifi time so i have lot of LD last only few seconds.Program allwayes do only that must nothing more to save resources. So it get me to LD but turn off right after.
      *i add LD long as possible

      same is needet with other factors like parts of lucidity .

      Priority of programs must by dynamic depend on actual state not hard set this was also on my early mistakes.Also is possible get some info if your sugestion will work like check code , priority, autority , collisions.
      Last edited by ATA; 12-17-2014 at 09:27 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Bobblehat View Post
      Has anyone tried this?
      No, I haven't. Maybe I'll try it at some time, but honestly I don't think It will work for me.
      I mean, what you say about waking a specific time has never worked for me when I just wanted to wake up a specific time. But there is an exeption : when I HAD TO wake up - say for travel - I always wake up 1-2 mins before my alarm. So, I don't know if I will get something out of this, but I can try - it's not a big variation to the technique.

      P.s. Last 3 nights, no proper attempts (in 2 nights I was very tired and just slept all night and the other, after WBTB I got insomnia after my affirmation and didn't sleep at all, until morning). Hope I will have a proper attempt today!
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      "...what we experience is our model of reality, not reality itself. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. So it’s a constrained dream, whereas dreaming is perception free of constraint. What exactly is the difference experientially between the dream and waking state? And you see, it’s the same stuff. It’s all illusion! "Stephen LaBerge

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      Programming myself to wake up at 5 A.M for exemple, or at 4, is easy for me, I don't need any alarme.
      programming myself to notice each micro awakening is a litle bit more difficult. I have to want it hard.
      ATA is Right, intention is important (I guess he said something like that).

      This night I tried to see if RemDreamer could help me noticing micro awakening.
      I used it after the WBTB. from about 6:30AM to 9:AM it detected REM and triggered about 20 sets of 20 seconds of flash, 1 flash/sec, but I only noticed these clues when I was in slow sleep, maybe awake, maybe in phase 1, and it happened only once or twice.
      I didn't notice it on my dream, and I don't remember any dream.
      I guess RemDreamer most of the time is triggered while Phasic REM because of the eyes movements, but is barely noticed when the dream is occuring if this dream is while a Phasic REM stage.
      I think it works well when there is a transition from Phasic REM to tonic REM just after a Eye movement has been detected, so the dream shield is more subtle, and the clue can be clearly seen in the dream scene.
      anyway, the goal was to wake me up when I was dreaming, and to train myself to do the Raduga's technique when I notice I have been awaken by the mask, but it didn't work.

      I could give it another try with longer clues (I can go up to 30 seconds sets and use faster blinkin).
      I could also increase the sensibility to have even more sets of clues.

      The long term goal is not to depend on a technology to do properly this tremendous DEILD technique, but I'm ok with the fact of using every tool that could help me to learn.
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      Well, even with 13 sets of 30 sec of flashing clues between 6:30 to 9 didn't wake me up nor clearly appeared in my dreams, it only made me dream about zombie attacks and post-apocalyptic scenes, like it often does.
      It is not impossible that the flashing mask makes things worst by enhancing the deepness of phasic REM to better protect the dreamer from external stimulus, or maybe it is only that the brain managed very well these two nigths to integrate the flashes into the dream scenario, as it has often been doing for the last 5 years.
      Raduga speaks a little about these technological LD aids in the longer version of his book. he thinks it can help but suggest not being dependent of those.

      I temporary disabled the "bips" by covering the buzzer with candle wax (for when I don't sleep alone).
      Thinking about taking away the wax and using the bip option with the visual clues cause it has chances to wake me up more easily during phasic REM than flashes alone.
      I will maybe do that next week.

      next monday, I plan to use 2 pills of "Galantamine 4mg + choline 200mg" (but without RemDreamer) instead of only one pill as I want to see if 8mg makes a difference.
      Received and started to read the Thomas Yuschak's book "Advanced Lucid Dreaming : The Power of Supplements".
      Learnt very interesting things so far. the "Dopaminergic" theory is a very interesting theory that explains few things better than the "Cholinergic" theory, like why dreams can happen beyond REM sleep, and why REM sleep can contain no dream periods (because according to the Dopaminergic theory, dreams are note triggered by the REM sleep but by the forebrain, REM sleep only strongly helps, but is not strictly necessary for the building of dreams).
      Anyway, Yuschak's advice about Galantamine is to to stay a 8mg and not beyond.

      Sorry for giving the impression of being a little bit out of off topic, but LD devices and WILD supplements are conceivable ways to explore with Raduga's technique.
      And theories about the sleep stages where dreams happens may also be important to understand why this kind of technique sometimes works, sometimes don't
      Last edited by Kaan; 12-19-2014 at 10:06 AM.

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      I have good news and bad news today!
      I did another attempt this night:
      During the after WBTB sleep, at some point, I realized I was in bed and had just been dreaming. I imagined motion and immediately I felt moving. Did a cycle (rolling, then moving feet then rolling again) and the sensation intensified - was dragging me away! But as I was thrown into a LD.... my son started crying!
      He had just seen a nightmare and woke up crying.....
      So, the bad news is... a ruined LD (I hate it when this happens...).
      The good news is that the technique is still working fine for me - no LD but definitely technique success !
      The second best technique for me - SSILD stopped giving results after only 2 lucids, so I am really happy with this one!

      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      ... I've been wondering if one had to choose between DEILD and detecting FA: if the cycles work in either case, it's a "catch-all" approach, and that's great news!
      Sorry for my delayed response FryingMan, but yes, it's a catch-all approach!
      Whenever you wake up from a dream, either a FA or real awakening, doing immediately a cycle, propels you into the dream world - in a FA case, I guess that you just realize what it is. I remember i once did a proper WILD from within a dream: I dreamt that I was in bed trying to WILD and in just seconds I was propelled in a void and a dream formed. I became lucid because of that - it didn't last long though. So, it is possible to turn a FA into a lucid using this!


      It would be nice to see what other people would get from this technique, because for me it's like Magic! I had tried proper DEILD before (imagining a dream to form and get into) with no success. Actually, I rarely caught any awakenings and when I did, I HAD to move before doing anything. But I don't know how, with this one is different. I immediately imagine movement - and do not feel the need to move - perhaps time has passed and now I could even be successful with classic DEILD but I am not sure.
      For people like Kaan that are focused more on visualization and less in movement, perhaps this similar technique might work better! I am sure that not all DEILD subtypes are the same and some might be much better for someone - for me it seems to be "the phase"!
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      "...what we experience is our model of reality, not reality itself. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. So it’s a constrained dream, whereas dreaming is perception free of constraint. What exactly is the difference experientially between the dream and waking state? And you see, it’s the same stuff. It’s all illusion! "Stephen LaBerge

    17. #67
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      Quote Originally Posted by SearcherTMR View Post
      Sorry for my delayed response FryingMan, but yes, it's a catch-all approach!
      Whenever you wake up from a dream, either a FA or real awakening, doing immediately a cycle, propels you into the dream world
      Doesn't Raduga advise to very first of all "try to separate" before starting the cycles? Have you ever succeeded in that? I'm definitely going to work on incorporating this into my wakings.
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Doesn't Raduga advise to very first of all "try to separate" before starting the cycles? Have you ever succeeded in that?
      Yep, you are right, that's what he says.
      But think about it: How do you try to separate?
      By imagining movement - either trying to levitate, stand or roll over. Well, that's exactly the start of my cycle: I imagine rolling around the axis of my body. If it works (it has once) I am thrown into my dream body and a LD. If not, I just CONTINUE with the cycle (move limbs and then roll again) and then the sensation always comes and intensifies for me!
      So, it's not just a catch-all approach, but also a simple all-in-one cycling movement for me!
      Wish you good luck!
      Last edited by SearcherTMR; 12-19-2014 at 04:04 PM.
      "...what we experience is our model of reality, not reality itself. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. So it’s a constrained dream, whereas dreaming is perception free of constraint. What exactly is the difference experientially between the dream and waking state? And you see, it’s the same stuff. It’s all illusion! "Stephen LaBerge

    19. #69
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      The separation without use of visual can be based on :
      Touch : not fealing of bed or creating some input like standing (feat against wall or something when sleep maz help) ,(extrernal warm sand, snow..)
      Proprioreception: pasive or active , in pasive imagine limbs or part of body in different position in active use "movemenet" , middle option is use something what move you magnet, string , movement with bed..
      Linear accelration : floating or falling , roller coaster,..
      Angular acceleration : "rolling over" in bed without use muscels or change in bod parts position
      Gravity

      *exsamples are mainly for exit in same room
      *depend of strengt of imgaination and actual sensory imput can move original body image , create new one , fealing of separation of new body form original one..
      Last edited by ATA; 12-19-2014 at 04:03 PM.

    20. #70
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      Just wanted to (shamelessly) post a link to my DJ: I tried the preliminary exercises for beginners (imagining yourself spinning). First night (and first try, at that) I was lucid, and during the first sleep cycle of the night. I have to say I am interested in finishing the book:

      DEILD? DILD? "Phasework" - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      SearcherTMR, FryingMan and Kaan like this.

    21. #71
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      Michael Radugas indirect techniques are the best thing for OBE ever!
      Just be sure not to push yourself hard thought the day. I was so happy a few years back when I discovered his book and was pushing myself hard to have an obe or ld. And I had great success. But.
      After some time I had feeling that I blocked or fucked up the whole process, started mixing with other techniques and too many theory from other books, also life caught up and I just stopped. Now, I realized all my mistakes and started over.
      Stick to the guide, don't do more then 3-4 attempts a week and relax. Don't over-think the damn thing.
      Every night before falling asleep just be happy for the next natural awakening and have clear thought on doing the techniques, it will work like magic.
      And then when you catch your spontaneous awakening then and ONLY then PUSH YOURSELF, be AGGRESSIVE to separate from physical body.
      Good luck.

    22. #72
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      So I tried the "quick start" last night, practiced it about 6 times or more with a long late morning period of dozing and dreaming, but got nothing each time and returned to non-lucid dreaming each time. Once I felt a small bit different and got a brief flash of bright HI, but it subsided.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    23. #73
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      How many hours of sleep did you get before practicing?
      From my experience this sounds like you didn't try aggressively enough to separate or you were too tired and sleepy and needed a few more hours of sleep.

    24. #74
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      It was an unusual night, I had slept 4 hours starting around 7:30pm, then up for about 3 hours until 2am, then slept about 7 more hours until 10am, after about 5-6 hours of the 2nd sleep cluster is when I tried. I was not too sleepy I think, but I had been sleep deprived during the week and was catching up. I did dream a lot, though, in both clusters of sleep.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    25. #75
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      This night I tried some settings on my rem dreamer to help me training durrings micro awakenings.
      basially, I added some "bip" to my visual clues (about 4 secondes of bip+flash)it worked well and had several occasions to try the techniques. Wasn't sucessfull but I will definitly use it again to get used to do the obe technique as soon as I notice I am awake.
      this night, I plan to try a pure WILD technique (without Rem Dreamer) since I will use 8mg Galantamine + 400mg choline.
      If I fail the WILD, maybe I'll have occasions to test the raduga's techniques as well (if I notice any micro awakening).
      Almost finished the yuschak's book on supplements.

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