Thread: Michael Raduga's The Phase?

Good job on noticing that you were already in a dream, Kaan. Sorry you didn't record it, but seems like you got most of the important stuff. Congrats on a productive night!

Update on my trials:
After my last post, I had another short DEILD and then nothing...
2 more trials in which I wasn't really trying and slept through the WBTB (which was set 30 min earlier than before), then stopped for a few days, and last 2 nights, two more unsuccessfully trials (with my normal WBTB Time): In the first I failed to notice the awakenings and yesterday I woke up every time but quite uncomfortable and it took me almost a min to relax, so the trial was useless. Basically I am back to where I was with the classic DEILD.... and I don't really know why.
Was it just the initial excitement? I hope not...
Anyway I think of changing method, at least for a while.

OH MY GOOOD! This was the most crazy morning of my life!! XD Jeez, I have to calm myself down..
Okayyyyy... I read the basic instructions in the book. I went to bed at 11:30, woke up at 6 am, went to the bathroom, drank a bit of water, went back to bed with the intention of waking up and laying still.. Now, I'm typically godawful at DEILD because I just can't become conscious during those natural awakenings, and in the very rare event that I do, I completely forget to remain still.
This time, likely thanks to waking up at 6 first, I had 6-7 awakenings in 4 hours! 2-3 of them were false! In only 2 I remembered to lay still! XD But finally when I remembered to relax and lay still I started feeling the usual sensations I have before OBEing. This time, instead of waiting to see what happens, as I typically do, I decided to try to roll myself out of my body as I read in the book. I rolled left to right a bit and I was almost thrown out! Then I was in my room but it was dark so I knew it can't be waking life, I pinched my nose and tried to breathe and I could, then I phased through my door to get outside, then I think a bunch of fun stuff that I can't fully remember because I got greedy and stayed out for too long (DAMMIT! XD lesson learned..), then I was in a very very vivid nice place, there was green grass and some apartment buildings and I looked up to the sky and it was a light blue but there was a half moon, I said outloud "hey dream, show me something cool!" and THE MOON MORPHED INTO THE FREAKIN DEATH STAR! IT WAS SO AWESOME! XD Oh man.. I also caught one or two false awakenings but I either didn't manage to get far or I forgot what happened.
Anyway THANK YOU so much for making this thread OP, I will keep using this technique, oh my god..

This night I felt ok to try for the 5th time Galantamine (8mg + 400mg choline) with about 0.35 mg of yohimbine.
Basically I planed to attempt a WILD but once again I practiced something close to the Raduga's technique.
I waited a very long time, staying conscious while slow sleep, without much specials things (no hallucinations but hearing my tinnitus very loud and feeling some kind of atonia, my mind was very clear), and after having a short non lucid dream, I was able to enter the dream twice by imagining myself moving.
The firs time I was on a bicycle, I was feeling very well my legs moving. I had nothing visual at this moment, only the feeling of my dream legs, and I attempted to fly but I woke up.
At the second attempt, I imagined myself walking and I entered the dream by walking in a forest.
I did few things like broking a branch, tasting and eating it.
I made a snowman appear, I tryied to fly above a medieval castle.

After that I had a very long non lucid dream.

My conclusion #1 is that visualizing movements is what may work well for me, and the cycling doesn't seam necessary, but maybe I do a kind of cycling without noticing it.
My conclusion #2 is that when I succeed in doing a WILD, I actually have a dream or some kind of sleep just before (so my WILDs mainly are DEILDs)

Anyway THANK YOU so much for making this thread OP, I will keep using this technique, oh my god..

Congrats on the LDs, mimi--glad it worked so well for you!

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Congrats on the LDs, mimi--glad it worked so well for you!

Thanks, Mr Cat!

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

OH MY GOOOD! This was the most crazy morning of my life!! .. instead of waiting to see what happens, as I typically do, I decided to try to roll myself out of my body as I read in the book. I rolled left to right a bit and I was almost thrown out! ... oh my god..

Congrats on your success mimihigurashi!
And yea, that is exactly the feeling when you succeed with this technique!
And what you mention is exactly the crucial difference from the classic DEILD: dont wait and recall dream and so on... just imagine movement and there you go!
Ah! I am sure i will soon figure out what went wrong with my failed attempts and succeed again!

Originally Posted by Kaan

...My conclusion #2 is that when I succeed in doing a WILD, I actually have a dream or some kind of sleep just before (so my WILDs mainly are DEILDs)

Nice job Kaan with the lucids!
What you say about WILDS and DEILD is most likely true!
Actually Raduga himself says that even in traditional WILDs, consciousness actually depends back and forth and when it reaches a certain dream-level and you come back, then WILD happens. So, it's actually always a DEILD...
This is also my feeling based on the 2-3 real WILDS of mine. I honestly believe they were in fact DEILDs...
So, if this is true, only DILDs and DEILDs exist, and everything else is a subcategory of these two...

About DELID like i write earlier best chance to do raduga techniqe is awakening from REM phase with dream (late REM or REM after WBTB work better).
In this cases is there ususaly some residual dream body and is much esier to enter/create LD. In this ideal case scenario is chnace to LD about 80%.And you can cal it DEILD.

In cases like awakening from REM but not exsactly after dream end are chance lover about 40% .

In case of awakening form NREM sleep is chance about 10% .

--
Is hard to say what exsactly is traditional WILD but not all of them are DELID is possible enter LD form waking state during the day without previous sleep or dream in this attempt.
Chance to that are for untrained peson very low about 1%, in evening is about 2-4%

I quite like the sound of the book's indirect techniques, not tried them out yet, but they sound intuitively promising.

Another failed Raduga attempt last night.
Noticed 2-3 awakenings, at least one of which should have been successful: I
didn't move at all and did my cycles as I should, but without results...
Nevertheless, after awakening, I think I realized what went wrong: I believe it's almost like the inability to fly within a lucid: you try but nothing happens...
The reason is doubt: for whatever reason you doubt that you can do it or you are afraid that it won't work...and it doesn't ....
So, as with dream flight, all you need is a relaxed and confident attitude: you must believe and know you can do it..
So, let's see if I can put this to practice next time!

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

Another failed Raduga attempt last night.
Noticed 2-3 awakenings, at least one of which should have been successful: I
didn't move at all and did my cycles as I should, but without results...
Nevertheless, after awakening, I think I realized what went wrong: I believe it's almost like the inability to fly within a lucid: you try but nothing happens...
The reason is doubt: for whatever reason you doubt that you can do it or you are afraid that it won't work...and it doesn't ....
So, as with dream flight, all you need is a relaxed and confident attitude: you must believe and know you can do it..
So, let's see if I can put this to practice next time!

Are you sure you just weren't close enough to sleep? If you're too awake, nothing is going to happen, of course. You are comparing your attempt to reach "the phase" with dream control, I don't think it's the same thing, because in dream control, you're already in the dream, whereas here you're trying to get into it, not yet there. If that makes any sense.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Are you sure you just weren't close enough to sleep? If you're too awake, nothing is going to happen, of course.

I had just woken up remembering a dream - so it was after REM - and after failing the cycle I just relaxed and drifted to sleep within seconds, so I was not wide awake, that was not the case...

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

You are comparing your attempt to reach "the phase" with dream control, I don't think it's the same thing, because in dream control, you're already in the dream, whereas here you're trying to get into it, not yet there. If that makes any sense.

Yes, I know what you mean, you can't compare different things and perhaps you are right...
Yet, after awakening I had the same familiar feeling that I have after waking from a failed-flight Lucid : I wasn't really doing it - sth was holding me back and I felt that it was a lack in belief that I can do it....in both cases - despite being different things.

Originally Posted by ATA

About DELID like i write earlier best chance to do raduga techniqe is awakening from REM phase with dream (late REM or REM after WBTB work better).
In this cases is there ususaly some residual dream body and is much esier to enter/create LD. In this ideal case scenario is chnace to LD about 80%.And you can cal it DEILD.

In cases like awakening from REM but not exsactly after dream end are chance lover about 40% .

In case of awakening form NREM sleep is chance about 10% .

--
Is hard to say what exsactly is traditional WILD but not all of them are DELID is possible enter LD form waking state during the day without previous sleep or dream in this attempt.
Chance to that are for untrained peson very low about 1%, in evening is about 2-4%

If this is true it's very disappointing, since the window for DEILD for me, and the opportunities where it arises, are very, very rare. As in, a few times per year. Perhaps a reason to try to learn to recognize wakings, but then I don't see The Phase as any different from DEILD if it has the same stringent requisites for working (realizing you've woken up from a dream really soon).

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

I had just woken up remembering a dream - so it was after REM - and after failing the cycle I just relaxed and drifted to sleep within seconds, so I was not wide awake, that was not the case...

You only relaxed after you failed the attempt? I hope not, because for this to work easily and quickly, we need to realize we're awake the moment we're awake, remain in that super-relaxed state that we are in when we're asleep, and not tense up or move our body.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

...but then I don't see The Phase as any different from DEILD if it has the same stringent requisites for working ...

That's because the phase is a DEILD technique, whether Raduga mentioned that or not in his book. There is nothing wrong with this, of course, but I think it makes sense to understand that when doing this technique you are doing a DEILD (aka, waking up from a dream and mentally turning around and going back to the dream), because it will help you get your head in the right place for the transition/phase to the LD.

Originally Posted by ATA

... best chance to do raduga techniqe is awakening from REM phase with dream... In this ideal case scenario the chance to LD is about 80%.And you can cal it DEILD.

That was the case in every successful attempt for me. Basically that's how I spotted awakenings - I felt like I was still awake but then realized that I was just dreaming, so immediately I did the attempt. This was also the case in my last failed attempts...

Originally Posted by ATA

It is hard to say what exactly is traditional WILD but not all of them are DELIDs. It is possible to enter LD form the waking state during the day without previous sleep or dream in this attempt.

You might be right, but this was not the case with my WILDS.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

If this is true it's very disappointing, since the window for DEILD for me, and the opportunities where it arises, are very, very rare.

Why do you think they are rare? In my attempts I usually wake up remembering a dream 2-3 times during WBTB (after finding about this technique though and not with my DEILD attempts).

Originally Posted by FryingMan

... I don't see The Phase as any different from DEILD if it has the same stringent requisites for working (realizing you've woken up from a dream really soon).

In my view, this is quite different and far more effective than traditional DEILD. You don't have to wait for a dream to form and try to stay conscious and so on...just imagine movement and you are there. As for spotting awakenings, for me that came with trying the technique...

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

You only relaxed after you failed the attempt? I hope not, because for this to work easily and quickly, we need to realize we're awake the moment we're awake, remain in that super-relaxed state that we are in when we're asleep, and not tense up or move our body.

You are SO Right here!
That's exactly what happened!
As soon as I spotted the awakening, I got excited and tense - Ah, I am about to go Lucid! - and did my cycles. Thanks a lot for spotting this in my wording!
So, that's what I need to work on for my next attempt, I guess I was wrong with my previous conclusion!

Originally Posted by Sageous

That's because the phase is a DEILD technique...

I totally agree that it is a DEILD variation. That's what it is. But, is there any other description of this kind of concept - immediately imagining movement instead of waiting and staying conscious ?
I mean, there are also a lot of WILD variations for example, but some of them might nonetheless be quite original in concept.
I believe that's also the case here. A quite original and clever DEILD variant!

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

You are SO Right here!
That's exactly what happened!
As soon as I spotted the awakening, I got excited and tense - Ah, I am about to go Lucid! - and did my cycles. Thanks a lot for spotting this in my wording!
So, that's what I need to work on for my next attempt, I guess I was wrong with my previous conclusion!

So you found the culprit, awesome 8D Np and glad I could help, good luck in the next attempt

I think that the WBTB is a key and that if we do an old school WILD attempt, we are likely to loose consciousness few times through slow sleep (or REM/n-REM/Phasic REM/ Tonic REM dream) and wake back from these states mentally ready to recognize these micro awakenings and WILD very fast thanks to the Raduga's indirect techniques.
That 's how it seams to work for me.

i am glad this technique has worked for you.... i have tried it last year but it didn't work for me. maybe because i don't understand why it works...

Originally Posted by yaya

i am glad this technique has worked for you.... i have tried it last year but it didn't work for me. maybe because i don't understand why it works...

Lol, who are you talking to, yaya? And why didn't it work for you? It's not complicated.

I'll tell you why it's rare for me, because I rarely notice waking from Non-lucid dreams. I just do not wake with dreams "on my mind" immediately. I have pretty good recall, but the memories generally come only after realizing I've woken up, and then reaching for them, and by then I'm far too awake for DEILD.

But like I said, I have not made a very serious, concerted effort into noticing wakings immediately. Maybe it's something I should try.

On those few occasions where I've noticed waking up from. "non-lucid," I've tended to be already very, very close to lucidity, or actually getting lucid during the waking process. It's hard of course to say since I can only see into my own head, but I suspect people who can notice their "nonlucid" wakings regularly actually are having lucid moments while they're waking up.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Lol, who are you talking to, yaya? And why didn't it work for you? It's not complicated.

oh, i meant you and all here for your progress.

i really love Raduga's book and i have read it several times and have watched his videos on youtube. but my problem with his technique is that when i wake up spontaneously and for example i try to rotate for 5 seconds, i quickly pass out....

because this body position (not moving my body and stay calm) is so soothing that if nothing happens after some seconds, i just fall deep sleep.

beside, when we wake up spontaneously, we are at the end or after the REM sleep. so we usually don't hit REM sleep and maybe the prolong cycles after cycles in this technique is a way to waste non-REM sleep and to take us into REM sleep. in this way, it make sense to me...but when it start to make sense that i am already snoring in my bed...

i am sorry but it may not work for a heavy sleeper like me...but i wish you luck!!!

Originally Posted by yaya

oh, i meant you and all here for your progress.

i really love Raduga's book and i have read it several times and have watched his videos on youtube. but my problem with his technique is that when i wake up spontaneously and for example i try to rotate for 5 seconds, i quickly pass out....

because this body position (not moving my body and stay calm) is so soothing that if nothing happens after some seconds, i just fall deep sleep.

beside, when we wake up spontaneously, we are at the end or after the REM sleep. so we usually don't hit REM sleep and maybe the prolong cycles after cycles in this technique is a way to waste non-REM sleep and to take us into REM sleep. in this way, it make sense to me...but when it start to make sense that i am already snoring in my bed...

i am sorry but it may not work for a heavy sleeper like me...but i wish you luck!!!

Sucks that you haven't had success with it yet, but if you fall asleep too quickly, have you tried sleeping more before doing the WBTB? Maybe if you're less tired you won't fall asleep unconsciously so quickly, even if you're a deep sleeper. Your choice, though.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

... I have not made a very serious, concerted effort into noticing wakings immediately. Maybe it's something I should try.

I understand what you said but that was also the case with me and it unexpectedly changed when I tried this. I believe you should give it a proper try!