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    Thread: a thought relating precognition to dream telepathy

    1. #1
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      a thought relating precognition to dream telepathy

      One of the things that I don't understand about the idea of 'seeing the future', is it doesn't seem to me that the future exists from the standpoint of the present. If there is any freedom at all in the present, the future is not yet entirely determined. And even if there were no freedom at all, it seems to me that the only way to determine the future would be to allow actual events to unfold and see what happens. because any predictive model that was less complete than the world itself would be inadequate. Yet the future is not determined solely by seeing what develops from the present, because precognition is not strictly of the present, and it influences what can happen.

      One thought that people have is that precognition shows what is 'likely' to happen in the future, based on the past. But it appears to me that the past physical state of affairs must not be the only thing that makes a particular outcome 'likely', because some foreseen events are not of a kind that can be plausibly extrapolated from the present. For example when one foresees a freak accident that happens to someone else.

      When telling a story, certain events are likely to happen later in the story not because they're predictable from what happens earlier in the story, but because they're part of the story. Suppose you're trying to tell a story where the events in the story have to be consistent with each other down to the last atom. Since everything is interrelated, small events have to be coordinated with other small events so that larger events work out also. Given that precognition is possible, there must be a story, so there must be such coordination.

      Who is telling the story? If we have any freedom at all, then we are part of who is telling the story. But as individual people we are aware only of objects and events that pertain to us personally. And since those things are of necessity in agreement with objects in events in other people's lives, from an individual standpoint it looks like most things happen for reasons outside of our control. If we think we see the reasons, things appear to be compelled by circumstance, and where we don't see the reasons, things seem to be random. From that standpoint life appears less like a story, because so many of the details appear either forced or unintelligible.

      Suppose that for a moment you view life not from your standpoint as an individual person, but from a standpoint spanning more than one person. From this standpoint you are still one individual, but two or more people are a part of you, as different parts of your mind. From that standpoint some larger scale aspects of the story are no longer factors outside of your control, they are your story. And your story only makes sense if certain events happen soon, events that coordinate the smaller scale story telling of the individuals who are a part of you.

      As a single person you can't foresee such events because they don't yet exist, and the scope of your personal power and freedom isn't sufficient to tell them as a part of your story. If you did have such power and freedom as a person, it wouldn't be a premonition, it would just be thinking about what you plan to do and then doing it. But from a more shared standpoint you have some freedom and power on a broader scale than you have as a person, even though you are still constrained by considerations beyond that standpoint. At every level you may imagine "I am doing this", but what you are capable of imagining doing is limited by conditions outside of your awareness.

      The idea that life is a collective dream is hardly a new of course. (Row row row your boat.) My main thought here is that "the future" develops as an act of will, and the way that it seems partially foreordained is a consequence of how details have to be brought into focus across different scales of experience. This also explains or describes why premonitions and 'shared' thought experiences seem to be closely related for some of us. When two people 'share' a dream that's connected to an impending event, another way to look at this is that a part of the collective mind is planning what is going to happen, and hasn't brought it completely into existence yet. The dream itself is also a kind of event of course, and can be viewed as a part of the larger event.

      In my thought of this, what may be thought of as natural law would be a consequence of the same process. Its not that the universe is designed, or works a certain way from chance, so much as that the unity of will across different scales requires there to be physical law. Other physical laws are presumably possible, depending on the story being told, but they would tend to share some characteristics out of necessity. Likewise for more subtle dynamics like karmic law. To change the law, you have to be able to imagine an alternative law in a way that actually works, and you have to be able to do this from your current standpoint. Most hypothetical alternative ways for things to work won't actually work, hence the failure of utopian religious and political experiments.

      (A big part of 'my story', as an individual, is trying to help find an alternative story that works better. A better kind of karmic law so to speak, one in which the development of intelligent life involves a lot less treachery and misery. This story is a part of a larger, more collective story, and its not a story that will be brought to a successful climax any time soon, if ever. To what extent my part of this is beautiful or epically stupid remains to be seen I guess.)
      Darkmatters, Sageous and JoannaB like this.

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      I like the way you think man.

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      Thanks.

      I think I'm mostly just focusing what other people think, but hopefully it adds something.

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      I think the answer to this question lies various positions in spacetime and the concept of time itself. I think it is true that you have free choice in your moment of choice in time irregardless of a precognitive dream that has already recorded the outcome. There might be other factors determining your choices however. In my set up dreams I had the opportunity to test this out. This dream happened after a whole saga of events unfolded that matched my dreams so I was used to them being precognitive and it seemed in those I couldn't change the outcome due to moral or personality issues.

      This is a dream that I tried to change the outcome of as it seemed inconsequential and I wanted to see if I could.

      "I was at home in Caboolture & felt the need to mow the lawn & clean the spiders out of the shed. I had some sort of dealings with starting the lawn mower, like pumping fuel into it with the rubber finger button and though I would let it sit for a moment. So I left it in the shed for a time.

      It began to rain, perhaps I did not notice the rain, but I became aware of flood waters up to the veranda level of my house by looking out the window. It was more like rising water levels or being on a house boat than moving floods. I told John (my son) that we would not be able to go anywhere at the moment due to the floods and he was okay about that. I also noticed that the lawn mower was now on the very edge of the veranda and I was unsure of how it got there. Perhaps I moved it. I then moved it away from the edge."

      How it Matched

      Reflecting on this dream upon waking, I thought this dream was very unusual in that I never put my lawn mower on my veranda. It was kept in the shed, used for mowing then returned. There was never a reason for my lawn mower to be left on my veranda but dreams often have weird situations so I didn't think more of it.

      After finding out that I would be out of a job in the near future and being unhappy for quite a while with where I was living, I decided to work on my house in order to get it ready to sell. Right before the long Easter weekend of 2000, I went into the shed to get the lawn mower out to mow the lawn. I noticed then that the shed was full of redback spiders, very poisonous. I made a mental note that the shed needed cleaning out and that a call to the exterminator was also required.

      I then tried to start the lawn mower and I flooded the engine which was not unusual. Usually I just let it sit for awhile and try again with success, but this time, even after waiting, it wouldn't start. As the lawn mower repair shops were closing for the long weekend, I arranged to borrow my day care mom's lawn mower so I could still get work done while I had several days off. I thought it was a good morning to mow as the weather seemed unusually crisp which was very pleasant.


      I was able to transport her lawn mower to my house in the back of my Toyota Hilux which had a drop-down tray back. I worked out mentally while driving to pick it up, how I was going to get the lawn mower out of the truck as it was too heavy for me to lift it off the truck bed by myself. I was alone.

      I worked out that I could drive up to the side of my house and drag the mower onto the veranda as it had no railings. I then intended to leave it there while I ran to the fabric store to get supplies to make a slipcover for my couch. The slipcover was a project I planned on doing after I mowed the lawn and showered.

      I knew that after I rolled the mower onto the veranda I could then roll it down the stairs and planned to do so after I got back from the store. Then I would mow the lawn. I didn't want to leave it in the truck while I was at the shops for fear it would be stolen. I wanted to take it home first.


      Brilliant plan I thought. So, as I was driving home from my day care mom's house, lawn mower in the back of the ute, it dawned on me that I was now about to have a situation where there was a lawn mower that was going to be left on my veranda, just like in the dream. I found this extremely interesting as I had had several dreams that matched events in earlier and I wondered if were possible to make my actions/events not match the dream. Other events had moral/ethical or practical issues involved, but this leaving the lawn mower on the veranda or not seemed to make little difference. In fact, it would be even more responsible of me to put my day care mom's mower in the shed instead of leaving it on the back veranda while I popped into the store.

      So, still driving home, I decided that I would roll the mower onto the veranda as originally planned but then I would roll it down the stairs and put it in the shed and then go to the store! There! No lawn mower left on the veranda. Can't be that hard to do. And I remember thinking “Just because it's in the dream that the lawn mower is on the veranda, doesn't mean I have to leave it there. I'm going to put the lawn mower in the shed. I can do this. Plus, I'd be more responsible not leaving it on the veranda, it's safer in the shed.”

      About thirty seconds after hatching this plan I noticed that the sky was rapidly getting darker. Yup, I had noticed it was cool that morning but that was all, that the crispness was an indicator that it was about to rain went unnoticed. As I drove into the Wet Veranda The lawn mower was originally placed where the watering can is in this photo but when it rains really hard that area of the veranda gets wet.driveway the rain drops started hitting my windscreen. I had just enough time to get the lawn mower onto the veranda without getting too wet before a tropical downpour hit.

      So, there I was on my veranda with my day care mom's lawn mower and I thought if I put it in the shed I'd probably ruin the lawn mower by getting it all wet (I don't know that much about lawn mowers.) Plus then I would be too wet to go to the store and once I was looking at my shed again from the veranda, I remembered that was a large population of venomous spiders in the shed. These spiders were a significant deterrent for me, even more so than the rain.

      So a lawn mower was left on the veranda for the first time and later I had to move it even further from the edge to keep it from getting wet as there was driving rain. My young son was so frightened by the storm that he said he was afraid the house would float away. While in the midst of this experience of foiled plans, I thought how does all this transpire?

      On the other hand, I've had dreams that never matched anything at all, at least to my knowledge.

      This page has photos to illustrate this better - Weird Dreams | The Lawn mower, The Shed, The Rain, The Veranda & Free Will

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