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    Thread: Exploring Delta Sleep

    1. #101
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      ^^ That now sounds very much like a WILD to me, with the buzzing and vibrations you felt simply the noise experienced on the way to the dream. After the noise, you seemed to have been in a LD, rather than AP/OBE (which, BTW, might also "just" be LD's as well).

      Landing in a LD seems like a fine place to be though, and, if you got there after first going to sleep at night it is very unusual indeed!
      Last edited by Sageous; 12-08-2015 at 03:01 AM.

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      I battled through a brief bout of mild food poisoning yesterday and my sleep experience reminded me of delta dreaming. This has happened to me under similar circumstances in the past as well. It seemed like I never entered deep sleep, but a part of my consciousness remained aware and engaged in mental activity that I can probably best compare to psychosis. It was the same theme throughout the entire night, but I couldn't possibly begin to explain it because it made absolutely no sense, but it was a more or less continuous experience throughout the night.
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    3. #103
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      ^^ It sounds to me like the difficulties (understatement, I'm sure) of the poisoning might have kept you out of deep Delta and early stage sleep in general... you might have skipped "slow wave" sleep entirely, left with a night of NREM that more resembled dreamless REM than Delta:

      Maybe you were experiencing something like a primal defense mechanism, meant to keep you just a little aware so you could tend to your body's needs throughout the night (needs like, say getting up to vomit instead of doing it while lying on your back while asleep). I wonder if your enhanced consciousness skills helped you to notice this mechanism, while most people would just register a fitful night's sleep?

      So you may have missed/skipped early stage Delta, but got to experience lots of NREM throughout the night, perhaps with your head in a very different place, thanks to your ability to pay attention. Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!
      Last edited by Sageous; 12-09-2015 at 07:15 AM.
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    4. #104
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      To add to discussion, i've had my share of weird experiences lately. What they all have in common is that i drank coffee and then tried to sleep after staying up for so long studying.

      I've often awakened after NREM dreams while still keeping memory of them. Other times i would be almost lucid during an NREM dream.

      And through all of these and every time, i go through a period of hallucinations which i suspect to be REM atonia or SP..
      I would be trying to normally sleep and rest my mind, only for my body to fall asleep while my mind is wide awake. I get an audio hallucination of that brainwave sound in my head going extremely loud. There was one time i tried opening my eyes and i saw something creepy, though i'm not sure if it was a dream or not back then.

      And according to my memories from NREM dreams i know so far, NREM dreams are stranger than normal dreams. It's hard to describe it, but they feel kinda weird. Through most of them i get a false-awakening.. And only once, i had a dream on the streets near my house, the streets were very weird though. Also the most notable thing is that all of the NREM dreams i experienced were night-time and dark. The lighting would be way down. I expect the quality of it overall to be sloppy.

      There were times i got lucid by accidentally WILDing my way into an NREM lucid dream, which is probably what all of these are. The dream though, was EXTREMELY short, around 6 seconds long after i got into it. I guess this is why they don't recommend WILDing right away at night.

      Quite strange, and i bet i'll be going through more of these. Unfortunately, i'm not very happy about them since they're messing up my sleep after studying.
      Last edited by TDHXIII; 12-11-2015 at 10:48 AM.
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    5. #105
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      I had not heard much about delta dreams before seeing this thread, but I definitely relate to that sensation of the void. I have had a few dreams there that I can recollect, although I suspect that most of the time they do not make it back into my memory and I am left only with the sensation of having been in a state of strange and wonderful wholeness.

      One such dream that I do remember still stands out to me distinctly. I am in the void, it is black. But in my mind I have the concept 'garden'. I stir to consciousness, I begin to 'vibrate'. Subconsciously, I become aware of a presence, and before I even know what I have done, I spit out an image. I clothe the presence in a form automatically. It is a woman. I then do the same to to another presence, this time a male. He knows what I have just done and smiles at me.

      There are no words. Everything is just shared, known. The man shows me that they do not create thoughts, but make for them shapes. They show me what I look like, a spinning golden triangle.

      I know that the actual images, such as the triangle, were symbols drawn from my own experiences. I suppose we clothe our experiences in the closest approximation of what our waking mind can understand. I try not to read too much into this dream now, and just enjoy it for what it is.
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    6. #106
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      I had a rather bizarre and fascinating dream which makes me wonder if it could have been some sort of delta/NREM dream. I was totally nonlucid in this case. There was no real visual imagery that I recall. There was a continuous, deafening roaring noise that I can't really describe. It was somehow intense yet indistinct, diffuse, and undecipherable. I suppose it was something like what one might get by playing millions of naturally-occurring sounds of all types all at once at high volume. My mind was in some state of strong chaos, confusion, and fear. I seemed to be nonverbally imagining an enormous lightning storm with a devastatingly loud strike hitting right next to me, or even directly striking me. Perhaps I wondered if that had just literally happened. I had no idea what was going on. It seemed that all I could do was lie there, hold still and endure the emotional feelings, and wait for them to run their course or for something to happen. It felt like this went on either continually for some time, or many times in succession. It's not clear which, nor for exactly how long (or how many times). There just didn't seem to be much of a clear notion of time here.
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    7. #107
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      I may take the time to read this whole thread, sorry for skipping it guys! Let me know if there is anything I say that's already been discussed. Anyway, I saw the thread and figured it'd be a neat discussion to get into.

      To start off, I want to address a few things you've stated in your opening post, Sageous. I want to address, most specifically, the idea that delta sleep is "empty" and quiet. There isn't much evidence that much dreaming takes place during this stage of sleep, but given the fact that the structures that are responsible for episodic memory and cognition are typically shut off during this stage, meaning any dream that is occurring may as well not be occurring at all (much like a night where you drank wayyyyy too much). Granted, one of the major structures for cognition being shut off suggests that you be unable to experience anything at all during a typical session of sleep, but children are known to have night terrors during this portion of sleep (apparently stage 3 and 4, so as deep as it gets). Children have vastly different brain functioning, but it is interesting to note regardless. The reason I argue that dreams may still occur at times during these two latest NREM stages is based on more reading I've done about brain activity during sleep. As just a small tidbit of background information, I need to shed some light on how consciousness is constructed. It is a result of self-regulating thalamocortical circuits... feedback loops that filter relevant somatosensory information and prune irrelevant signals by feedback induced inhibition of neuronal excitation. This loop of thalamocortical circuits basically traces the spreading of electrical signals through the brain as it takes in sensory information, associates things and gives them meaning based on past experiences, comes together as a final "big picture", which is then analyzed by higher brain function, i.e. "you".

      Time for a new paragraph, phew. The term thalamocortical comes from the sharing of information up from the thalamus and thalamic circuits through the cortical circuits. Thalamic circuits are shut off during deep sleep... they are the circuits that send sensory information to the rest of the brain. Similar things can be said of other known brain structures involved in the actual taking in of sensory information. However, cortical projections always keep running through their circuit, even with a total absence of information from the brainstem and thalamus. This happens no matter the cause of the loss of sensory input, it's how the Ganzfeld experiment and hypnagogic hallucinations work. The difference in these cases is that brain structures paramount to cognition and memory are functioning at the time. This easily explains why NREM sleep is capable of dreams, even though they are typically fragmented and difficult to derive any meaning out of. Now, enough neuronal firing in pertinent areas of the brain may be inhibited that the imagery and sensations generated by the still-projecting cortical loops may be so fragmented and localized that the projections by those circuits aren't able to communicate properly as well, I haven't read enough yet to know. Certainly if acetylcholine is well-inhibited enough in the 3 structures I mentioned at the beginning of the post that are responsible for episodic memory and, to a degree, cognition, it wouldn't count for anything anyway. Sleep-induced amnesia would see to it that all the information is lost on you. However, any interruptions during sleep or other significant function-alterating circumstances like drugs (pharmaceutical and otherwise), diseases, disorders, injuries, lucidity, etc., might allow for a dream to both be remembered and to have occurred in the first place.

      I know, it's kind of a silly thing for me to have written all this information about, but I figured someone might be interested. After all, the thread is named Exploring Delta Sleep. Maybe I misinterpreted exploring's meaning in this case, but... well, fuck it who cares, lol.
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    8. #108
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      ^^ Thanks for sharing all that info, Snoop, though it does sort of rip all the mysticism out of the picture, doesn't it?

      I can't remember at this point, but I think that if you read on in the thread (past all that emptiness stuff in the OP) you will see that it has been discussed that dreaming in some form does occur during Delta, though it is extremely different, and much less imagery driven (if at all) than REM dreams.

      The peaceful emptiness I spoke often about might reflect more on the nature of the experience itself than on there being no dream production at all. Indeed, many of my times in that peaceful emptiness had me existing in a gray mist, which is surely a sign of dream production... not to mention that, in order to sense your self at all in a dream, dream-body or not, there must be some dreaming going on. This also indicates that, dream production or not, no matter how perfectly empty you might find a void, it is still not actually empty because you are present in it.

      It could also be that the presence of self-awareness and memory (aka lucidity) in Delta leaves room for expectation-based dream incubation, and the void we experience is actually a dream about a void, and not actual nothingness (I don't entirely agree with that, but it is a thought I just had).

      So: Yes, dream production does happen in Delta, but it is very different from "regular" REM dreams -- at least to me.

      Regarding the inability to remember existent Delta-stage dreams: That is likely correct -- except that lucidity includes access to memory; so, when experienced by a self-aware (lucid) dreamer, the dreams, and whatever else, can be remembered.

      I'm not sure if this addresses what you were trying to share, but I do have a feeling that if you view more of the thread you might see more clearly what we're discussing here, and that it generally tends to be in agreement with what you posted. Or, if you already are clear, I hope you don't mind that I tended to shy away (or totally ignore) the physiological details, mostly because, for me, examining what is physically happening can put a bit of a damper on the experience itself -- especially if you start remembering physiological details during your Delta dive.
      Last edited by Sageous; 01-05-2016 at 05:55 PM.
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    9. #109
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Good question! I'm guessing the answer to that is different for each person who consciously experiences the state. Was that a dodge? How about this, then:

      If you are familiar with WILD, you will know that there is a "pause," a brief moment of absolute stillness, in between the last vestiges of waking life and the first of dreaming life. If you're doing WILD correctly (including making your attempt in the morning after several hours of sleep), that pause is extremely short, though you likely have experienced it. You may have ignored it, failed to notice it, or noticed it and just didn't care, simply waiting for it to pass in anticipation of things to come; but you likely experienced it.

      At night, when you first go to sleep, that pause can be very long, and, if you are able to pay enough attention to it (which I highly recommend, of course), you'll find it is less empty than it seems at first glance: thoughts still stream, but far more slowly and palely than you're used to, and if you listen carefully, you might hear sounds or voices that always stay just out of range (or not; that last bit could just be me). Or you might experience something else altogether; but when your self-awareness enters delta intact, you will recognize the pause for what it is.

      I believe that if you are able maintain self-awareness through the entire initial delta period, you will know that you are there, and there will be no confusion with HI or other pre-REM phenomena. Also keep in mind that it is possible to dream that you are in delta, but once you experience the real thing, you will be able to tell the difference.

      That may sound vague, but as I said, I'm guessing that the answer to your question is truly different for each person who consciously experiences the state... the pause, however, should be the marker shared by all.
      This an old post I know so excuse me for Necro posting but I think I have experienced this before. You mention about hearing voices? Well while heading to sleep sometimes, I hear voices, I hear my name being called, knocks etc, would this be the case of me being delta sleep? At times, these don't seem to be outside noises but feel more mental. After experiencing this is usually jolts me awake.
      Last edited by Habba; 04-20-2016 at 11:05 PM.
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    10. #110
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      ^^ No worries on the necro, Habba; it's always nice to see the conversation continue....

      What you are hearing could certainly indicate that you're witnessing a bit of Delta, but I'm not sure. It also may have been the hypnagogic imagery (HI) that would occur before Delta, while you are still on your way to falling asleep. I say this because of one small clue in your description: the experience jolted you awake.

      Delta is a fairly deep sleep period of NREM, and your body will not be very interested in being jolted awake. On the other hand, HI occurs while you are still riding the fence between wake and sleep, and it can be very easy find yourself awake after encountering it. So it might have "just" been a bit of HI.

      I could be wrong, of course, but the only way to be sure is to go there again, and try to remain calm enough that you don't wake yourself up... Maybe next time you'll get past those voices, and find yourself truly in that pause I mention above!

    11. #111
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      Thanks for that sageous!

      I've experienced this pause a few times I think, it's kind of hard for me to explain. It felt i was just laying there for a very long time and it was just completely blackness. It felt like I was asleep but apart of me was still awake. Is there a certain way you stay aware in this? Or is it like watching yourself go to sleep but keeping your awareness?
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    12. #112
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      ^^ I can't think of any specific way I retain self-awareness during Delta; it's more a case of establishing it before you get there, I think, and once established, the self-awareness, for me, tends to stay with me... I have a funny feeling that if you tried specific techniques -- like repeating a mantra -- you might wind up diminishing the experience, because you've added something to it.

      I want to make something clear, though: Delta sleep is a sleep stage you naturally enter after you have fully fallen asleep. All the things you do to become lucid in a dream (like WILD techniques) have already been done, so once in Delta you are already self-aware, and the only tool you need to stay aware is your attention to your presence in this place (attention is not a technique, BTW, but a state of mind). I suppose this is sort of like the WILD activity of watching your body fall asleep, only there is no body anymore, and sleep during Delta is more of an abstract than a thing to be witnessed. Also, attention is really the only tool, because other traditional tools for prolonging (i.e., spinning) are based on perception, and perception does not significantly exist in Delta
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    13. #113
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      I have a funny feeling that if you tried specific techniques -- like repeating a mantra -- you might wind up diminishing the experience, because you've added something to it.
      I agree with you on this! Let's say you're naturally a good footballer, yes and instead of using a football you use a tennis ball. You are adding something that doesn't need to be added, correct?

      I would love to hear more of your experiences with this, it's fascinating!
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    14. #114
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      Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
      ... You are adding something that doesn't need to be added, correct?
      Correct!

      In real terms, by using a proscribed LD'ing technique, you are adding something that can't be there (i.e., you can't prolong by spinning because there is no dream body to spin, or perceived dream scene to spin within).
      Last edited by Sageous; 04-21-2016 at 10:58 PM.

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      Can this occur in the morning? After awakening and trying to go back to sleep? Over the past couple of nights, I will wake up in the morning and when I try to sleep it feels like an laying in completely nothing for like 10-30 minutes, then I go into a dream
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    16. #116
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      ^^ NREM can (and does) occur throughout the sleep cycle, though it is a bit different later in the sleep cycle than in first stage sleep, when things are moving truly slowly. NREM seems much easier to navigate when it occurs after several hours' sleep (or before your dream starts up during WILD, for instance); I imagine that this is because there is more brain activity at that point than there is in the beginning of the night.

      So, in other words: Yes.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      ^^ NREM can (and does) occur throughout the sleep cycle, though it is a bit different later in the sleep cycle than in first stage sleep, when things are moving truly slowly. NREM seems much easier to navigate when it occurs after several hours' sleep (or before your dream starts up during WILD, for instance); I imagine that this is because there is more brain activity at that point than there is in the beginning of the night.

      So, in other words: Yes.
      Well, it's good to say i have a little spark of awareness when I enter this!
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      I believe I had another lucid delta episode today. It lasted for what felt like perhaps several minutes, though of course I have no way of knowing how long it actually was. For all I know, it could have been anywhere from a couple of minutes to over an hour. Time doesn't seem to be something I tend to concern myself with much in this state.

      The beginning is fuzzy, so I don't remember exactly how my consciousness or lucidity got triggered. It seems I may have had some thoughts leading into it, but I don't remember what they were. I seem to recall seeing what looked like HI trying to form, but it never seemed to resolve into anything distinct. I seemed to be a little puzzled by this at first.

      A bit later, when I had a better idea of what was going on, I noticed that it was relatively quiet and stimulus-free. Not quite 100%—there were some occasional slight sensations of fast movement or floating, perhaps, with maybe a sort of “windy” effect at times, sort of like what I often get during light NREM (just before waking up or entering REM), but maybe a bit more muted or “soft”, for lack of a better description. Possibly there was some very weak visual “noise” or patterns, but nothing distinct or well-defined. I chose to just passively observe and didn't spend much time thinking about anything. I guess this would usually be described as “being present”. Doing this seems to be quite easy, even natural, in this stage of sleep.

      One thought I do seem to remember at one point was something along the lines of wondering if it could get kind of scary to feel like I was “stuck” in this state for an extended period and wondering if I would be able to wake myself out of it if I wanted. I don't think I actually felt that way; I seemed to just be exploring the idea.

      Eventually, there was a quick, noticeable transition, and I could tell I had returned to lighter NREM. The most obvious difference, I think, was that I could feel my physical body again; just before, body sensations as a whole seemed to be largely absent. Seconds after the transition, I was fully awake. This was the first awakening of my sleep period (almost exactly 90 minutes since getting in bed). I'm not sure if I even had any REM in that cycle. I would have expected it to occur after delta, but it seems I may have just woken straight up instead, unless it somehow snuck in there without my noticing it (it felt like the transition was perfectly contiguous in consciousness to me, but who knows).

      Like before, my thoughts seemed to all be nonverbal. It's sort of as if it simply never occurred to me to think in words, which is interesting since in a waking state it's the opposite, where I always tend to think in words by default without thinking about it.

      It seems like my memory of this episode was rather clear this time; I wrote this all from memory after getting up and then checked with my immediately-after-waking notes. I hadn't forgotten to mention anything.

    19. #119
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      ^^ Interesting experience, Travis; Thanks for sharing! Me being me, I did of course manage to find a couple of things to comment on:

      Quote Originally Posted by Travis E. View Post
      One thought I do seem to remember at one point was something along the lines of wondering if it could get kind of scary to feel like I was “stuck” in this state for an extended period and wondering if I would be able to wake myself out of it if I wanted. I don't think I actually felt that way; I seemed to just be exploring the idea.
      This really isn't something to worry about, because you will always wake up, whether you want to or not. But if your concern or fear about something like this threatens to overwhelm, the easy solution is to just let your self-awareness slip away, allowing you to return to normal sleep (waking yourself fully up from NREM can be difficult, but it isn't impossible; it's best to save that as a last option).

      That said, the feeling you had isn't necessarily a bad one, if you can manage to massage it into a sense of permanence, of being safely enveloped in an eternal place or condition... this is hard to describe, but if you get there it is a very amazing place to be. Once there, you might not want it to end!

      This was the first awakening of my sleep period (almost exactly 90 minutes since getting in bed). I'm not sure if I even had any REM in that cycle. I would have expected it to occur after delta, but it seems I may have just woken straight up instead, unless it somehow snuck in there without my noticing it (it felt like the transition was perfectly contiguous in consciousness to me, but who knows).
      Though you can certainly go 90 minutes or more without a REM period, and wake up before one, there is a chance also that some non-lucid REM dreaming did indeed sneak in, and you didn't remember. After all, you consciousness was a bit occupied with absorbing where it had just been, right? Those regular dreams might have just slipped from your memory.

      It seems like my memory of this episode was rather clear this time; I wrote this all from memory after getting up and then checked with my immediately-after-waking notes. I hadn't forgotten to mention anything.
      This makes sense to me; after all, significant waking-life consciousness level events like these tend to be very easy to remember... hard to forget, even!
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    20. #120
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post

      Why? Because, if you’ve got your self-awareness and memory working well, the quiet emptiness of delta, with its thorough lack of active unconscious input, can afford you a unique opportunity to do things such as relax in perfect nothingness, deeply explore your Self, tap your still-dormant dreaming mind in a manner unfettered by existing dreams, explore transcendental states, and, perhaps, connect your awareness to the supernatural-plane type things we all get excited about here, like dream-sharing and AP, all without the distraction and misinformation of your brain’s REM dream engine.
      Speaking here about Delta Sageous you mention some of the reasons why we might appreciate the state and stuff we can possibly explore from it ...Could you share some of your own experiences of exploring in this way with say - AP, Dream Sharing, connecting to super natural planes and about your experience of bliss/emptiness you mention in another post?

      Thanks in advanced Sageous - for sharing -

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      This really isn't something to worry about, because you will always wake up, whether you want to or not. But if your concern or fear about something like this threatens to overwhelm, the easy solution is to just let your self-awareness slip away, allowing you to return to normal sleep (waking yourself fully up from NREM can be difficult, but it isn't impossible; it's best to save that as a last option).

      That said, the feeling you had isn't necessarily a bad one, if you can manage to massage it into a sense of permanence, of being safely enveloped in an eternal place or condition... this is hard to describe, but if you get there it is a very amazing place to be. Once there, you might not want it to end!
      Yeah, it was an interesting thought, given that these days I'm reasonably comfortable with consciousness during non-dream sleep, though it did take me a few years to get that way. Those are some good points to keep in mind if it becomes a problem. I seem to have a feeling it won't, though, just as I enjoy LDs and the more familiar non-delta NREM enough that it's been quite a long time since I've actually attempted to leave on purpose.

      This makes sense to me; after all, significant waking-life consciousness level events like these tend to be very easy to remember... hard to forget, even!
      Even more so than most of my regular LDs it seems, as I usually forget at least one or two very small details from my notes, but not here!

      Funny, too, how when I first woke up my initial impression was that it was actually a fairly uneventful experience and that I had little to say… until I actually started putting it into words and remembering more of it.

      It was certainly a fun ride, and I'm looking forward to the next one. Maybe I'll remember to get a closer look at some of the interesting aspects of it that I only happened to catch a quick glance at this time.

    22. #122
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      Quote Originally Posted by Patience108 View Post
      Speaking here about Delta Sageous you mention some of the reasons why we might appreciate the state and stuff we can possibly explore from it ...Could you share some of your own experiences of exploring in this way with say - AP, Dream Sharing, connecting to super natural planes and about your experience of bliss/emptiness you mention in another post?
      I'm not sure when or why I said things about using Delta for AP, Dream-Sharing, or connecting to supernatural planes (I would normally include supernatural planes in the AP category, BTW, and also can't believe I used those words), but I've no time to read through the thread, so I'll assume that I did. I'm guessing I was trying to "sell" the concept of exploring Delta to the AP'ers and dream-sharers out there. I've never been a fan of AP (it seems more an engine for self-delusion than exploration; and conversely, isn't every dream sort of an AP/OBE? Both of those are thoughts for other threads, I think) or dream-sharing (I don't like talking to people in waking-life, so why would I want to do it in dreams?), but if I were to pursue them, I think I would do so during regular REM-period LD's, when I could use my dreaming mind's resources to help with making and defining the scenes and connections relevant to AP/supernatural planes and dream-sharing. Sorry if I misdirected you there; I was probably just a bit too excited or earnest at the time...

      I can't say much more about the emptiness than I already have; I hope you don't mind if I take a pass, having no more new ways to describe peaceful nothingness.

      Bliss? Did I actually use that word? Gosh I hope not! Bliss to me is an illusion, or rather a sort of emotional veil that acts as a barrier to the really advanced stuff, so I've always had a bit of a problem with pursuing it (again, that sounds like the stuff of another thread -- or website).

      That said, what you left off your request was the opportunity in Delta to seek transcendental experiences...and I have actually pursued them during Delta. Of course, the difficult thing about transcendental experiences is that they are, almost by definition, very difficult to describe -- even to myself. I did start a thread a long time ago that discussed it; I finally listed a couple of dreams on post #40, if you're interested (most of the thread is about why it's so hard to describe them, of course). I believe the dreams listed happened in REM or late-stage NREM, but the advanced one at the end is not very different from my attempts from Delta... it also illustrates why delta is a nice place to begin a transcendental leap: I'm already in a void, or gray mist, so no need to eliminate the dream to get things started.

      So: I guess I'm 4 for 4 in not giving you examples...but I also think I may have managed to at least hint at my own experiences, or at least I hope so! But let me add just one more dodge, just to be annoying: I think I've said elsewhere on this thread that the Delta experience is an extremely personal one -- in my mind it may be the most personal thing you can do -- so my experiences probably will not relate to what you might discover in Delta. In fact, reading other people's specific experiences might just harm your own time in Delta, because you might build a set of expectations about what is supposed to happen, and those expectations might muddle your moment (this is one reason I don't post a DJ, BTW).
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      Thanks that's clear - to tell you the truth I wanted to clear it up also because when I re - read it (it's right at the beginning of your Delta thread *1)recently I coulnldt paste those bits it together with the Sageous or Delta I have got to know over the last year

      - thanks again, I will continue with the Delta exploration and development of self awareness
      Last edited by Patience108; 05-18-2016 at 07:51 AM.
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      As time passes, I seem to notice more of what apparently are NREM dreams (whether delta or some other sleep stage, I'm not sure) that have an overall scary/cataclysmic emotional feeling, kind of like one I described earlier in the thread. It's rather interesting since my normal REM dreams are usually fairly benign by comparison, and it makes me wonder that maybe these are actually fairly common experiences for me during this stage of sleep and I simply don't happen to notice or remember them most of the time despite their intensity. They generally have little to no visual imagery (though there are often ear-piercing thunder/glass-breaking/complete-chaos-type sounds) and are primarily thought- and emotion-driven (and often my notion of time is nebulous like with the other delta-like episodes I've experienced). They seem to occur usually during the first sleep cycle or two.

      I had a rather unusual example of these a few days ago, where the feeling and sounds came in waves much like (or coinciding with) the “vibration/numbness” waves I commonly see during conscious NREM, and this time I actually seemed to be running some sort of story in my mind to explain the feelings (though I didn't remember much of it when I woke up). I suspect I may have also had a tiny bit of semilucidity during that one; I seemed to (just barely) be aware that there was no actual danger and appeared to play around with it a little bit.

      With a bit more lucidity, this could be interesting to explore.
      Last edited by TravisE; 06-14-2016 at 10:49 AM.
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      Hi!

      This is all very interesting. I will read all comments. Now I was reading just here and there, but I begin to understand something. I was always asking, where is this delta? I made a bunch of going to bed WILD-s, but I was never sure, when I am "sinking" through the delta. When I am going to bed and rarely I do a successful WILD, I am mostly meditating for long times. The way, how I got into the lucid dream, was many times different, but there are some experiences that I always have. One of them is after some good relaxation and awareness I feel some "electric" feelings (whoosh). Mostly in my arms. Another one is, that I reach a state, that I call trance. My body dissapears. Not thinking is easy like to breathe. No more strugle, or "using powers" to catch your thoughts and stay aware. It is a peacefull floating. Almost always I see white dots, similar to stars, in 3D swirling around me. I think now, that I found this missing delta dream.

      Great post Sageous! Your posts and the comments under it are enough for a smaller book. Im really thinking to copy paste some of the best posts from the older members, with the comments, in the MS Word, and print it out. Reading it before bedtime, without sitting before my laptop to radiate my eyes. (RIP my ebook...I will ask Santa for a new one in a LD )

      Edit: Smaller book - I mean, after extraction of the essence. In raw, there is information thicker then the War and Peace.
      Last edited by Gyalogos; 08-07-2016 at 05:04 AM.
      "There is only one knowledge, the remaining is only a patch: Earth is below you, sky is above you, and the ladder is in you."
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