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When someone has a lucid dream and they're creating what they want, that makes sense. But what about things, people that appear that you have no control over? Is it your dreaming mind filling in the gaps? The subconscious throwing things out there for your benefit? :confused:
I was reading a bit about the DVA (with the Dream World Academy) and wondered if it could be something like a collective conscious or something?
:whyme:
Some input on this would be greatly appreciated. :)
This is my idea of things.
We can either land in our private place, where everything is made up by our mind. If not actively, than what you don't think of, it will fill in the blanks.
Or we can land in collective consiousness, where it's us, other dreamers and perhaps even permanent/semi-permanent inhabitants. Like souls and stuff.
Some of these collective places is where I think the "stable environments" could be. Where it's harder to build than in yur private place. Sometimes even changes are not possible, as it is a living space of others and their wish overrules yours. And when yu return here, it looks the same, or it is developed seemingly by itself, without your input.
But really, it's just what I think.
Thank you gab. :)
So the collective consciousness should be along the same lines as shared dreaming? (I know all of this is speculation/theories, but at the moment it seems we have nothing else to go off of except our own experiences. :P )
And if shared dreaming is possible, if both dreamers are lucid, who gets control of the dream? Does the dual lucidity cancel out any sort of control? :?
now that made me think a bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by reveriemyst
I think that now both have full power, and can do whatever they want. I don't think why control would be canceled.
I agree 100% with what Gab said above. The control works like this:
-Some of the material is illusion, while some of it is native substantial material with a permenance. So, anyone with skill could summon 'an image' of food, but it would be of no intrest to another dreamer, as it is all thought. Also, someone can 'have food' composed of what ever their realm is made of. that food could be shared or left somewhere and you could retrieve it later (it is real, there).
-Some of the effects, such as gravity may be imposed and permanent. If you are in an established area, the hosting entity likely set down ground rules, which act as their laws of physics. You will have to try very hard to defy these rules. If the area has serious strick gravity, you would be stressed the whole time you attempted to hang upside down from a ceiling, and before long would end up on the ground tired.
-The control you can have in a shared scene, that is not subject to any ground rules comes down to who is 'more powerful.' If you want to create a pool, but someone else gets irritated, they may be able to erase your pool, if they are more powerful, or if you stop paying attention. Perhaps a good example would be trying to levitate an object with substance over to you, while they attempt to pull it towards them. In that case it would move towards who ever has the most control.
I'm thinking yes, but I'm not speaking from experience, just from what I have read other places.Quote:
Originally Posted by reveriemyst
Collective consciousness is the place of shared dreams. But the place may not look the same to both parties, as these experiences are highly subjective. I think it was in a book by Robert Waggoner - Lucid dreaming - gateway to the inner self, where two people described their perceived shared dream. Some details were different and some were either the same, or of same character. Like one saw a palm tree and the other a different one, one described shore of a lake, the other shore of an ocean. These are just examples, as I don't quite remember their description. This is also one of the reasons why it's hard do come to conclusion about shared dreaming.
And I'm thinking, that this collective consciousness place may not be so easily manipulated by dreamers, since someone actually lives there.
Check out that book, it has more about summoning your real friends into your dream or entering their dreams and other thing about self-exploration.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as a collective consciousness, all of the unexpected parts of your lucid dreams can come from your subconscious mind, which I guess could be interpreted as a separate being in the dream world, I find that my conscious mind has no morals in my LDs, but my subconscious holds onto the values I have in waking life, so if i start going on too much of a killing spree, my subconscious will try and start getting in the way (giving DC's better weapons, making them stronger/faster etc.).
Hi, thank you all for your replies. :)
So when the terms 'established area' and 'collective place' are mentioned, are these similar if not the same to the astral realm? Or are they two completely different places/planes of existence? (to your knowledge/experience, of course. ;) )
And who would be these entities/hosts? Where did they come from?
That is interesting. I kind of like how deep down you seem to know you have an unfair advantage, so your higher self (I suppose :cheeky: ) jumps in and tries to even out the odds.Quote:
I find that my conscious mind has no morals in my LDs, but my subconscious holds onto the values I have in waking life, so if i start going on too much of a killing spree, my subconscious will try and start getting in the way (giving DC's better weapons, making them stronger/faster etc.).
I notice how on some of my non-lucids, if something is going terribly wrong or if it's just a horrible outcome, something will take over and give me a re-do.. like another try. Even though I'm not lucid and have no idea it's a dream, the guilt or sadness in my conscious (sub-conscious?) will let me do it over and change it.
Thank you, I will check that out. :) I'm not too fond of summoning people in my dreams (unless I have permission :P ) but the book sounds like a good read. :nodyes:Quote:
Check out that book, it has more about summoning your real friends into your dream or entering their dreams and other thing about self-exploration.
I do believe that all out of body experiences (LDs, OBEs, shared dreams...) happen in one place. They could be superimposed on each other, like when yu take a picture twice, without forwarding the film. Which place you see depends on your level of your awareness and perhaps expectation.Quote:
Originally Posted by reveriemyst
Entities could be other dreamers, either aware or not (lucid or regular), people with mental disease, on drugs, souls of deceased.
Permanent (well, to the extent) are the souls. And since they llive there, they wouldn't wanna have their environment changed by every passing lucid dreamer, so their places are stable.
I agree. I think he also addressed that in his book.Quote:
Originally Posted by reveriemyst
Also, moved to Beyond dreaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reveriemyst
It is the same as the astral. The term astral is just a broad term to cover realms with much less physical matter and far more chaotic random energy that can be influenced by thought energy. When some one refers to a collective area or established area, the idea is that it is a natural island where the chaos is less and permant dwelling can be established, usually encased in some form of shell or wall.
Who or what are the entities? Personally anyone who claimed to know exact details or names of races would make me think they were making things up. There seems to be a lot of variety from animal like beings, ghost like beings, things simialer to us, and massive god-like beings. I do not know any details as far as specifics. The variety is endless.