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    Thread: Could Physical Reality really be a Dream?

    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      It is! Mainstream science fiction - but high standard and properly thought through!
      I do not believe in spirits and/or demons, though.
      No theoretical problems with simulated ones - but I don't see any representation of such beings in the evidence, we find by proper scientific study.
      What evidence there is, is anecdotal and subjective - and so I don't believe in simulated ones either.
      It would take extraordinary and "hard" evidence to sway me in this respect.
      I agree that I don't believe in demons or spirits. My view is that we exist in a reality that is interconnected and everything is a part of everything else within a grand unified field of awareness. So ultimately, in the end all the discussions about Gods and what not is really a discussion about who and what we are... a discussion about the self.

      We are the very thing we seek... hence believe in yourself and the rest will follow.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Whatsnext View Post
      I thought Nick Bostrom's argument for the entire world being a computer simulation was pretty good and easy to follow, too. It basically goes:

      1. Creating the computer technology required to simulate a world is achievable by an advanced civilization.

      2. There will be at least some civilizations in the universe who achieve such technology.

      3. The civilizations that achieve such technology will create world-simulations in abundance, perhaps they will be as common as video games or more so.

      If you accept the above three premises it is easy to see how the number of simulated beings could dwarf the number of real beings in the universe.

      I don't imagine a distinct line between reality and dreams as most people do. There are pictures in your mind, and then there are other pictures in your mind. Which are dreams, the former or the latter? You can't tell from the information given, and yet, that information is the only information that we really know for sure. Dreams are images in our minds, and reality is images in our minds. We can be certain of literally nothing else. Thus if you throw out everything we think we know, and focus only on what we know we know, dreams and reality are equivalent.
      I do like Nick's theory and as he argues that a technology may already exists that simulates reality does he overlook that each night we sleep we simulate dream reality?

      The act of simulation is and always has been a part of who and what we are... so the next step is... are we collectively simulating physical reality?

      Just how powerful is a consciousness that can create the way we can? I don't know... it's amazing what I see in each of us. This dreamer.

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      okay. That may be true but there are some things human's shouldn't have to suffer from. :/ Also, are you saying that everyone has a past life and if precognitive dreams were true and you can change the result of it can someone change the future of the world to their liking if they wanted to?

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      okay. That may be true but there are some things human's shouldn't have to suffer from. :/ Also, are you saying that everyone has a past life and if precognitive dreams were true and you can change the result of it can someone change the future of the world to their liking if they wanted to?
      I would say that people do have more than one human life as part of their Earth life experience package and most would likely have had past lives. Some people remember them, as Dr. Ian Stevenson points out in his research. There are a lot of cases especially in children that have veridical evidence meaning they are able to verify details of that past life. Scientific Proof of Reincarnation: Dr. Ian Stevenson and here is another article on it: The Best Evidence for Reincarnation

      Here is a case where a 3 year old remembers his past life, even the location of his body and murder weapon as well as the murderer who later confesses to the murder:
      3-Year-Old Remembers Past Life, Identifies Murderer and Location of Body - The Epoch Times

      As for changing precognitive content, it is possible to have an influence on this as to how far we can take it, I don't know but it certainly looks promising as one way that we could make improvements to our lives. Precognition has prevented me from having an accident that likely would have resulted in my death and with my daugter in the car, she also was likely at risk of death or serious injury. Here is an article I wrote on that experience.

      The Precognitive Dream that Saved My Life | A World of Precognitive Dreams - YouAreDreaming.org

      So that is a good example of precognition doing something very positive, I do believe had I not had the dream giving me the warning and took action to change the circumstances, I wouldn't be here today to discuss these issues.

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      I see...Its interesting and may be possible i guess. Also, I'm glad you are still here and took the dream into consideration. But where would you say these precognitive dreams come from? From yourself or from another being?

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      I see...Its interesting and may be possible i guess. Also, I'm glad you are still here and took the dream into consideration. But where would you say these precognitive dreams come from? From yourself or from another being?
      The precognitive dream that saved my life was fairly recent, I certainly didn't expect such a fortunate warning which allowed me to change the outcome of the initial dream. I remember the dream vividly as my car clearly went out of control on black-ice that was under a fresh coat of virgin snow. When the white pick up truck struck my drivers side, it pushed all the way in to where I was seated causing me to wake up from the dream. I had told both my mother and my father about the dream and that because of it I was going to buy studded winter tires as a precaution due to the fact I knew the tires I had would have been all-seasons. Even the clerk at Walmart gave me a bit of a hard time about putting studs on my tires as unnecessary for where I live as our winters are not that bad so a bit overkill and I had to pull the customer is always right and not back down on my persistence to purchase new tires with studs.

      When the dream came true, the same moment that I was in the car turning down the hill towards the stop-sign, even with the studs I had a difficult time stopping. I panicked and even remembered the dream. Thankfully I was able to stop about one foot past the stop sign and the white pick-up truck in waking life passed right in front of the nose of my car. No doubt, the tires changed the circumstances allowing the car to stop this time, avoiding the accident and my daughter and myself were safe. I had white knuckles and was very much white with fear also but wow, what a sigh of relief to see the truck pass me and knowing I was unharmed along with my daughter... it was that experience which encouraged me to write my abstract called the Theory of Precognitive dreams and make it free for anyone who wants to learn about precognition. My thank-you gift to others as I was still alive to write it. I still feel like I am now on borrowed time having cheated what could have been my fate. It was an incredible experience to have had and along with all the other very amazing precognitive dreams in my life fits perfectly in how I am currently experiencing this reality.

      Do I expect people to be sceptical of this if they themselves do not have precognition, absolutely. But in writing it I have had many people who have had precognition thank me for the paper as it was something clearly they needed to also read and it helped them understand they are not alone in those types of experiences. I feel very blessed and fortunate as well as rewarded in helping others along the way.

      As for other beings, what I am trying to say about our reality and who and what we are is that in this physical reality we have become trapped in what is called an illusion of separation from who we originally are. That we are all parts of a larger whole, a Universal being which religions will call God but I take a more pantheism view understanding that it's not external and outside of ourselves, we are a part of it as much as it is a part of us and through that, we are literally all one being. It ties in with what Tom Campbell speaks about and many religions also fits in with Bill Hick's musing, "We are all one consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively." So all other beings really are just aspects of this one central self which we are all a part of. They are just aspects of ourself.

      This is why I put an emphasis on learning to be conscious during sleep and to learn to be more aware of who we are in these myriad of altered states that we find ourselves in. That the physical world and the dream world are interconnected systems of reality by which we are thriving and expanding ourselves in while we evolve and grow from such experiences.

      My belief-systems stem purely from experiences that I have which have shown me that I have existed before this life as some other sentient awareness. That I am projecting a part of my awareness into this body for the purpose of having a Human experience. That when I finally do die, I will still exist but the person I am today "Ian Wilson" will die and that part of my journey will end as that personality. When we shed a personality, all that is doing is clearing the slate for new experiences in our eternal future. Ian will be a historical part of Earth in the 21st century and I will have gained all of this knowledge, experience and also share in the relationships with others that I have connected with, and all of that carries onwards. So no fear of death, no fear of suddenly coming to an end and a firm understanding of the continuity of consciousness from one life to the next. Will I incarnate again, quite possibly it seems that way. But I do believe our involvement in Earth and human experience eventually outgrows us and new emerging systems of experiences (new reality systems) present themselves. We are eternal, unending non-physical dreamers who are evolving by creating new patterns of experiences as we fill the endlessness of infinite time that seems to be the only real challenge we will face. Being something non-physical and eternal out lives even the age of this Universe hence I muse that we all have seen the birth and deaths of entire universes from that perspective.

      Robert A. Monroe talks about turning unknowns into knowns stating that individuals must at their own pace go through this unveiling of the larger reality by participating in being conscious during sleep and exploring who they are. I see it as turning over stones to find the hidden truth through first-person experience. I cannot imagine for the life of me that something so subjectively experienced is easily objectified that others can learn about it without creating yet another belief-system. We can reconnect, remember and wake up in our physical lives to the truth of who and what we are in such a way that we will know the truth and not have some nonsensical belief about the nature of things.

      It's all good despite the obvious struggles, suffering and strife we will encounter along the way. Good does come out of all of this. We eventually grow up into more knowledgeable, loving beings.

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      Alright. I have no more questions now. xD Sorry about asking so many questions but i appreciate you taking your time to reply to me. I can see it from your point of view and others who believe in it now and I will keep an open mind about this stuff. Thanks. : )
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      Could it be a possibility that are living in different realities? Whereas in one reality we actually experienced supernatural things, and in another we never do. It all depended on the choices we made that day. Or is that kind of idea impossible? I've had dreams about people and places that I've never seen before, yet I feel as if I've lived there or seen that person before. Which could've meant in an alternate reality I woud've met that person. Or what about when I have dreams about a place I have opportunity to go to but still have never seen it before. Not in pictures or movies, anywhere. Yet when I had a dream about Boston University I saw the field and lawn and it looked summer outside.

      I was just curious about this possibility because I always thought this being a more sufficient reality. Idk why, I just have.
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      Quote Originally Posted by jumpscreamfly View Post
      Could it be a possibility that are living in different realities? Whereas in one reality we actually experienced supernatural things, and in another we never do. It all depended on the choices we made that day. Or is that kind of idea impossible? I've had dreams about people and places that I've never seen before, yet I feel as if I've lived there or seen that person before. Which could've meant in an alternate reality I woud've met that person. Or what about when I have dreams about a place I have opportunity to go to but still have never seen it before. Not in pictures or movies, anywhere. Yet when I had a dream about Boston University I saw the field and lawn and it looked summer outside.

      I was just curious about this possibility because I always thought this being a more sufficient reality. Idk why, I just have.
      The way I look at reality, is that we have one absolute reality that creates content which produces sub-realities or sub-systems. We might look at these different systems as different realities, and they are certainly different types of information, but they are all part of the larger reality system as a whole. In many ways, it's like there is a bandwidth out there in the larger system and we tune into a specific band in that spectrum, what we get in terms of that information produces a type of reality experience which is different from the other bands, or datastream.

      So one grand reality producing many virtual simulations of reality in an effort to evolve and create content.

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      Quote Originally Posted by jumpscreamfly View Post
      Could it be a possibility that are living in different realities? Whereas in one reality we actually experienced supernatural things, and in another we never do.
      You need to read the books of Carlos Castaneda. But skip the first two.

      "What I am talking about are worlds, like the one where we live; total worlds with endless realms."

      "Where are those worlds, don Juan? In different positions of the assemblage point?"

      "Right. In different positions of the assemblage point, but positions sorcerers arrive at with a movement of the assemblage point, not a shift.

      Entering into those worlds is the type of dreaming only sorcerers of today do. The old sorcerers stayed away from it because it requires a great deal of detachment and no self-importance whatsoever. A price they could not afford to pay.

      "For the sorcerers who practice dreaming today, dreaming is freedom to perceive worlds beyond the imagination."

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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      You need to read the books of Carlos Castaneda. But skip the first two.
      Is it called a separate reality.

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      My personal belief is that the permanent Dream Plane is REALITY and this bullshit suffering physical reality, is actually a lovely lower version OF HELL. the Dream Plane = Heaven, Physical Plane = Hell/Purgatory.

      Vallhalla, though may be found in the center of the Earth.

      HAIL THOR!
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      ya gwan fok wid de Baron? ye gotta nodda ting comin. (Formerly known as Baking Nomad.)

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      This as hell plane? Dream plane as heaven? Many would disagree. For their dreams are truly cruel.
      If I have to assign heaven, than it would be higher levels of astral dimension and higher, dreams are too unreal. Even lucid ones. I see heaven or hell only as mind state. Not place.

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      Speaking of this topic, I think there might be many dream realities around us, but this current reality at the moment is the one which is materialized. We could move to next closer dream reality and materialize it instead of this one(by doing an action/choice in reality). However we would not be able to jump to further dream realities straight away, so we have to pass the whole path to get there, from one reality to another. From one action to another.

      Another good theory is that our world might be a creation of all living minds together. That could be the reason why we cannot simply change needed part of reality simply with our mind, because to change something we need a big portion of those minds who created it to think the way we do and be able to slowly change it. I am talking of some big major events etc here.



      Those are all theories, but interesting ones and they always give us lots of things to think of

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      Quote Originally Posted by WakingNomad View Post
      My personal belief is that the permanent Dream Plane is REALITY and this bullshit suffering physical reality, is actually a lovely lower version OF HELL. the Dream Plane = Heaven, Physical Plane = Hell/Purgatory.

      Vallhalla, though may be found in the center of the Earth.

      HAIL THOR!
      It's one thing to think that life on earth is like hell or purgatory--kind of interesting in fact--however, that would not imply that the dreamscape/dimension/whatever you feel like naming it is heaven. The two ideas are unrelated and the existence/actuality of one does not prove the other.

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      I think another example of a simulated reality would be by the movie The Thirteenth Floor . Warning: its no action movie, but it does present some interesting philosophical ideas about the simulation theory.

      Anyway, I know I won't sway people either way with my input, but I'd also like to point out the book Many Lives, Many Masters by Brian L. Weiss. Doing his psychiatry work and counseling, he stumbled across a patient that didn't make any progress for about a year until Dr. Weiss started trying hypnosis. Specifically guided hypnosis, and what he discovered was basically several past lives of the patient, info the patient said about Dr. Weiss, and pieces of wisdom from the other side. What I found interesting, were a couple areas. One, was how the patient was able to tell Dr. Weiss personal information about his family without prior knowledge. Another, is how detailed the patient was with recalling these supposed past lives. To recall such data consciously, would require study of various cultures and historical/anthropological backgrounds, which the patient did not have.

      This is not to say that I agree 100% with the book, or that hypnosis can bring about this information regardless of the person, set and setting, but it does present interesting possibilities. These include reincarnation, the afterlife, and alternative healing.

      That being said, I think reality has simulation-like qualities, but not by any kind of computerized technology. If anything, I think the mechanisms behind our "physical" reality are based in the imagination, and are largely outside the realm of our human understanding. I think basic principles and wisdom can be understood, but if we were to sit down with a higher-intelligence being and inspect the forces manifesting our reality we would be utterly dumbfounded and unable to express it in our English language.

      And this later part is my opinion, but I feel like stating this because I don't want to give off the vibe that I referencing anything science-based or taking away anyone's credit if this has already been said. So going back to our reality being simulation-like, and I think saying it is a dream would be another way, works for me because its all an projection of consciousness. Its a universal phenomenon, and at the deeper levels of reality there is no separation or boundaries as they are now. This assumes that consciousness is in fact a broad phenomenon, filtering through every living and non-living thing, like animism. So there is this consciousness that flows through everything (the universe is alive and all one) and then there has to be the mechanism which is propagating reality itself. Or perhaps it is one and the same. Anyway, this universal or collective consciousness would be the stuff that is projecting itself out and aware of itself (in our case) simultaneously. And, unconditional love and suffering are part of the game too, since life is about learning and experiencing. I don't know why this is, its just my experience that these two things have held true.

      So it goes back to a question posed earlier in this thread, who's managing our reality? I'm not sure that its us (in the case of consciousness) but there definitely seems to be something out there in the depths of the ether which is moving all this forward. And I'm not sure that this question need be answered either, as its interesting to discuss but I'm not sure what the practical uses of an answer would be.

      Although, I'm for entertaining this idea of reality being a dream. I think the fact that we can't alter it as in lucid dreams doesn't invalidate it, though. What if its just part of life, part of the game? If its supposed to be a learning experience, and also how we are all individuals, being able to break the rules of physics at will would make for a very chaotic world indeed. Its like everyone could have superhuman powers and be all over the place, I could only see that happening in our actual dreamstate where we aren't our physical bodies (therefore no consequences of "physical death") or in a world where there is a majority of similar values so that no one is launching kamehamehas or spirit bombs everywhere.

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      (I'll keep this short)

      I wouldn't say that this world is a dream, but more so a temporary place to stay, like a hotel, you don't spend all of your existence here and you didn't start off here. "Here" being Earth/the physical realm. I believe in some of the things stated above, that death is only a door into a more enhanced realm, and the only way to truly access you spiritual "body" kind of like how sleep is to a lucid dream (you can't access your dream "body" unless you go to sleep, right?). I'm sure many of you have had lucid dreams where your senses seem to be doubled or tripled, extraordinary sight, and all that. I think that death opens up a state of completely new senses, not just enhanced senses.

      I'm Christian, and very much believe there is one God who has three parts, but is still one Being (like a triangle, it has three corners but is one shape). Not to say that there aren't other gods (notice the lowercase) but they're below God so why pay them attention? Continuing, prior to being sent to Earth, or this reality, God limited your senses, imagine being blindfolded and having ear buds put in. As to why he would do it, I don't know, His ways are far above my mind, maybe to prove your loyalty, who knows?

      About the Higher Self, I very much believe in that there is such a thing, it's said in The Bible (which is, to me much more credible than the Internet) that God breathed His Spirit into us. That for me eliminates the doubt of there being a Higher Self. I would say that this world/reality/experience is just living a small amount of time with our Higher Self's complete range of senses nearly completely nullified. This complete range of senses being returned upon death and then living in that state for eternity.

      As to how Jesus relates to that, my beliefs are that initially with Adam's disobedience our rights to returning to our spiritual body were forfeited and our "spiritual senses" on Earth were even further nullified. Jesus (God) came down as a man so we could have those rights returned to us. (I guess it works better to think of it as a legal thing.)

      I didn't really come here to change anyone's opinion just to share mine, so if it sounded like I was had a "matter-of-fact" attitude, could you read it again with a different voice?
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      You haven't mentioned if physical reality is a dream, then whos dream is it, obviously gods, gods life is one big lucid dream of physical reality which we are a part of, , , don't over engineer your thoughts , theyl get you in trouble, u know the ones , heavy eye lids , stuggling to fly, etc etc etc,,,,, the future awaits,,,don't be afraid,,,

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      Lmrhone

      I like you Christian take on this question. Below your quote is my take.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lmrhone View Post
      (I'll keep this short)

      I wouldn't say that this world is a dream, but more so a temporary place to stay, like a hotel, you don't spend all of your existence here and you didn't start off here. "Here" being Earth/the physical realm. I believe in some of the things stated above, that death is only a door into a more enhanced realm, and the only way to truly access you spiritual "body" kind of like how sleep is to a lucid dream (you can't access your dream "body" unless you go to sleep, right?). I'm sure many of you have had lucid dreams where your senses seem to be doubled or tripled, extraordinary sight, and all that. I think that death opens up a state of completely new senses, not just enhanced senses.

      I'm Christian, and very much believe there is one God who has three parts, but is still one Being (like a triangle, it has three corners but is one shape). Not to say that there aren't other gods (notice the lowercase) but they're below God so why pay them attention? Continuing, prior to being sent to Earth, or this reality, God limited your senses, imagine being blindfolded and having ear buds put in. As to why he would do it, I don't know, His ways are far above my mind, maybe to prove your loyalty, who knows?

      About the Higher Self, I very much believe in that there is such a thing, it's said in The Bible (which is, to me much more credible than the Internet) that God breathed His Spirit into us. That for me eliminates the doubt of there being a Higher Self. I would say that this world/reality/experience is just living a small amount of time with our Higher Self's complete range of senses nearly completely nullified. This complete range of senses being returned upon death and then living in that state for eternity.

      As to how Jesus relates to that, my beliefs are that initially with Adam's disobedience our rights to returning to our spiritual body were forfeited and our "spiritual senses" on Earth were even further nullified. Jesus (God) came down as a man so we could have those rights returned to us. (I guess it works better to think of it as a legal thing.)

      I didn't really come here to change anyone's opinion just to share mine, so if it sounded like I was had a "matter-of-fact" attitude, could you read it again with a different voice?
      This is my take:

      Gods "covering angel" Lucifer, opened his eyes, while doing his job, (covering God's throne) and became the first enitity to suffer "addiction".

      He becam addicted to worship (the highest expression of Love for the Creator)

      Lucifer, job was to be Gods light bearer. He folded his wings above the throne of God. So when he opened his eyes, during "Worship" The power of every other worshipping creatures ♥Love♥, hit Lucifer.

      All that concentrated ♥Love♥ became the drug that Lucifer had to have, exclusively, for himself.

      So he began to "lobby" all the other angels to get them, politically, on his side so he could dethone the creator.

      There was a war in heaven and the one-third of the heavenly hosts who backed Lucifer, were driven out of the highest (third) heaven.

      Later, God, created the lowest heaven, Earth.

      Some of us think that we humans are the one third of the Heavenly Hosts, that God, as Jesus, came to redeem (!!!)

      We humans suffer endless addictions.

      Addictions are the only thing that separate us from Reality.

      God has not abandoned his beloved fallen angels to this nightmare (of waking life) (imo)
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      this is really interesting i like this theory alot...... it reminds me of the anime "chaos; head" it focuses on how the mind is basically jsut a computer and some company creates a machine that can project illussions in your min, making you see delusions. there's alot more to it but it's allvery similar to this. check it out if you get the chance....
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      We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

    21. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by abcde View Post
      You haven't mentioned if physical reality is a dream, then whos dream is it, obviously gods, gods life is one big lucid dream of physical reality which we are a part of, , , don't over engineer your thoughts , theyl get you in trouble, u know the ones , heavy eye lids , stuggling to fly, etc etc etc,,,,, the future awaits,,,don't be afraid,,,
      I really don't want this to come off negatively but I just didn't consider the thought of physical reality being anyone's dream. For physical reality to be a dream it would be implying that God needs sleep or is sleeping, not really something I think would be useful for God. I believe that physical reality is in fact reality.

      Could you reword your post, just using periods instead of ",,,", it confuses me lol. But I wanna see what you mean.

      Havago! (Debrajane! I feel like I knew you closely at some point, maybe that's just my mind.) I respect that, but I don't like to think of myself as a spirit that would go against God, it pains me, spiritually and physically. Another thing for me is that I'm sure that the Bible says God "created the Heavens and the Earth" which to me would be saying that each of the Heavens are separate from the Earth.
      EbbTide000 likes this.

    22. #47
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      Iv decided ld is a load of rubbish,and i myself have never had one , ha what a joke

    23. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by abcde View Post
      Iv decided ld is a load of rubbish,and i myself have never had one , ha what a joke
      Woah man where did this come from lol?

    24. #49
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      Iv stopped beliving until someone can prove it to me, without all the technical stuff

    25. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by abcde View Post
      Iv stopped beliving until someone can prove it to me, without all the technical stuff
      Wish I could've gotten to him before he was banned, though it sounds like he was willingly ignorant I would have wanted to hear him explain a little more on his perspective. Although I'm not very sure how someone can discredit something they've experienced, at least based from what he said he had many Ld's. He was probably trolling us though, because there isn't a way to prove lucid dream without the "technical stuff" unless you were to experience it. By no means would I have tried to "prove" anything to him either, let the ignorant choose to be ignorant. But I would like to see if he had any reasons, other than complete and willing ignorance.

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