Reality checks redefined

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe reality checks are not actually a test of whether or not you are dreaming but rather may be a test of your beliefs of what is real? What if once your beliefs about reality change, the "waking world" adjusted to be the one that matches them. What if when you see something that you are not ready to accept as real, then you wake up. What if the reason why dreams are so short is because we are not willing or ready to accept that reality yet and so we spend only a limited amount of time in it because we reject it, but on the other hand we are intrigued by those ideas so we entertain them in the safety of what we label as just dreams.

I have no idea what to say except, amazing thought! I love your way of thinking :)

I cant agree with you but i think changing belief might allow you experience something else. I believe dreams are just dreams because we can affect and change them. Everything you see there is yours or in you. Although i agree when you said that we reject what we are not willing to accept. Sometimes when im meditating i tend to see something but as soon as i notice its out of ordinary i reject it by getting spooked.

Seltiez, Actually I also believe dreams are dreams. It's waking life not being also a dream that I have my doubts about. :)

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Originally Posted by Seltiez

I cant agree with you but i think changing belief might allow you experience something else. I believe dreams are just dreams because we can affect and change them. Everything you see there is yours or in you. Although i agree when you said that we reject what we are not willing to accept. Sometimes when im meditating i tend to see something but as soon as i notice its out of ordinary i reject it by getting spooked.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Seltiez, Actually I also believe dreams are dreams. It's waking life not being also a dream that I have my doubts about. :)

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Actually... I too have similar thoughts when something strange happens in physical world. Last week something happened- I was talking with my wife about something, then I put radio on and nearly the same thing was discussed in radio... then, for a few minutes I believed I'm dreaming. Maybe all existence is shared dream, recurent dream. We could dream this existence because we are at same level of consciousness...

Exactly! The more attention I pay the more weird stuff happens. I have started interpreting waking life using dream interpretation techniques, and it often makes sense to me. Also my moods way too often affect what happens it seems. For example I was very angry, and then I felt drained, and that night we had a power outage. Could be a coincidence of course, but there are so many weird coincidences, that I kind of stopped believing in coincidences all together, and I look for meaning in everything, and find it more often than not. Life is just so weird.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Seltiez, Actually I also believe dreams are dreams. It's waking life not being also a dream that I have my doubts about. :)

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Yup reality is mystery. The right way to go at it is to just observe. We cant make conclusion if it is a dream or if it isnt. Things that are just beyond my understanding i just let them be until learn something someday to gain understanding of it.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Exactly! The more attention I pay the more weird stuff happens. I have started interpreting waking life using dream interpretation techniques, and it often makes sense to me. Also my moods way too often affect what happens it seems. For example I was very angry, and then I felt drained, and that night we had a power outage. Could be a coincidence of course, but there are so many weird coincidences, that I kind of stopped believing in coincidences all together, and I look for meaning in everything, and find it more often than not. Life is just so weird.

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This is true. More open you become more you will notice. Sometimes it might freak you out but be prepared and just observe it without conclusions. You are becoming more aware. This what happened to me i tried to make reason with it but know im just calmy observe everything. Remember that when you become more aware you mind tries to reason with everything and you might see things connection that power autage happening when your angry even though maybe it didnt have any connection. Its mind playing tricks because i got these all the time. I thought it was weird that things i thought seemed to take impact on reality. I noticed my mind tried to just reason what i was becoming aware.

Thank you for the reminder that I should not come to conclusions before I observe more! True enough. I recently took a Meyers Briggs online self evaluation again, and while I used to be an INFJ, I am now ENFP, which is a big change for me, but both the extraversion and perceiving are new to me, and so at times I fall back to old habits. I prefer to become ENFP though, I like that part of myself better, but it takes a lot of effort at times still to withhold judgement though I know now that I would prefer to. :)

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Thank you for the reminder that I should not come to conclusions before I observe more! True enough. I recently took a Meyers Briggs online self evaluation again, and while I used to be an INFJ, I am now ENFP, which is a big change for me, but both the extraversion and perceiving are new to me, and so at times I fall back to old habits. I prefer to become ENFP though, I like that part of myself better, but it takes a lot of effort at times still to withhold judgement though I know now that I would prefer to. :)

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ENFJ
Extravert(22%) iNtuitive(50%) Feeling(12%) Judging(1%)
You have slight preference of Extraversion over Introversion (22%)
You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (50%)
You have slight preference of Feeling over Thinking (12%)
You have marginal or no preference of Judging over Perceiving (1%)


Those were my scores. They actually were really accurate but just small portion of my personality. The test told im about Self-Awareness and Personal Growth.
Its just a test but you have made huge difference there. You should be what you want to be.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

I recently took a Meyers Briggs online self evaluation again, and while I used to be an INFJ, I am now ENFP, which is a big change for me, but both the extraversion and perceiving are new to me, and so at times I fall back to old habits. I prefer to become ENFP though, I like that part of myself better, but it takes a lot of effort at times still to withhold judgement though I know now that I would prefer to. :)

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hmm... I didn't think your myers-briggs results could change, given that they represent basic personality traits (which, being the things that define us, don't really change, ever).

Ah, but that's only if personality traits are, in fact, the things that "define" us. Every time I ponder the validity of that hypothesis, I start to wonder what exactly "personality" is, and what exactly counts as "basic" to it...I go round and round for a bit, get lost in the details, and then give up and go watch kitten videos on Youtube.

However...I've seen some profound personality changes in people (not excluding me) in just those areas that M-B measures. Given that the test results measure tendencies, rather than absolutes, I have no trouble believing that scores can change over time.

^^ Fair enough. One small edit I would make is that I made no hypothesis that "personality traits are, in fact, the things that 'define' us." I would say rather that we define our personality treats, which I think is more than just a semantic swing. Traits are markers of a greater whole, and really have no ability to define our actual nature, only to act as indicators to what that nature is like (and how it is similar to other people's natures).

I've honestly never witnessed -- or heard of -- a healthy person switching from an introvert to an extrovert, but, given that this is not my field, I'll take your word that it happens.

Good luck with your new personality, JoannaB -- though I would be curious to see what your results were if you took the test again! ;)

Sageous,

I may be an unusual person in that I have changed profoundly several times in my life to an extent that could be considered surprising. I was intolerant and close minded as late as senior year in high school, but some time in my freshman year in college I became an incredibly tolerant and open minded person.

I still have only marginal extroversion, but given that I have always until now score introverted that is a definite change. It is related to my change from judging to perceiving in that I have made an effort into withholding judgement and spending more time to gather information and an effort to be less self centered and more other centered and the two are related and both have to do with my effort to overcome depression through mindfulness and restore greater balance in my personality. Who said anything about me being healthy? Lol.

I have put a lot of effort into this change so it is not just something that happened to me. Of course some of it may be tendencies that were there before but hidden so thoroughly by depression that they only now are coming out. But that is not all of it. I used to need to spend time alone to decompress, sure there was some of it that was due to depression and an unhealthy retreat to myself, but I also needed alone time when I was not in a depression phase. I then forced myself to be with others as part of curing depression. Now I find that I get antsy when we do not have guests coming over at least once during a weekend, and a high point of my week is the energy I get from a group folk dancing class.

Similarly with the perceiving versus judging, it is a result of a concentrated effort into changing my personality to better suit who I want to become. But it is becoming more and more part of who I am.

I am who I am, no matter who I am. I am the one who changed.

PS: I think lucid dream practice combined with depression are powerful agents to personality change. Depression is a major motivator for self change: one first hates oneself, then hates the fact that one hates oneself, etc. combine that with the self awareness techniques of lucid dreaming: the realization that anything is possible, paying attention to weird stuff and causes and effects, seeking increased awareness and control. And the result can be a good recipe for personality change.

PPS: this year I have made huge strides in overcoming depression. I now use mindfulness to self correct, and I am happy most of the time despite the fact that I had seasonal depression and this is the season for me to be depressed - and in a sense I am, but I compensate the negatives. I can overcome depression and I can change my personality.

PPPS: Of course, if life is a dream, and given that in a dream anything you truely believe is possible is indeed possible, so given that I believe that I can change my personality I can. :)

Interesting points.

I gotta say, I am loving this section more and more, even as a scientific mind, I open my mind to the possibilities.

Thanks for sharing your idea! :D

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Sageous,

I may be an unusual person in that I have changed profoundly several times in my life to an extent that could be considered surprising. I was intolerant and close minded as late as senior year in high school, but some time in my freshman year in college I became an incredibly tolerant and open minded person.

I still have only marginal extroversion, but given that I have always until now score introverted that is a definite change. It is related to my change from judging to perceiving in that I have made an effort into withholding judgement and spending more time to gather information and an effort to be less self centered and more other centered and the two are related and both have to do with my effort to overcome depression through mindfulness and restore greater balance in my personality. Who said anything about me being healthy? Lol.

I have put a lot of effort into this change so it is not just something that happened to me. Of course some of it may be tendencies that were there before but hidden so thoroughly by depression that they only now are coming out. But that is not all of it. I used to need to spend time alone to decompress, sure there was some of it that was due to depression and an unhealthy retreat to myself, but I also needed alone time when I was not in a depression phase. I then forced myself to be with others as part of curing depression. Now I find that I get antsy when we do not have guests coming over at least once during a weekend, and a high point of my week is the energy I get from a group folk dancing class.

Similarly with the perceiving versus judging, it is a result of a concentrated effort into changing my personality to better suit who I want to become. But it is becoming more and more part of who I am.

I am who I am, no matter who I am. I am the one who changed.

PS: I think lucid dream practice combined with depression are powerful agents to personality change. Depression is a major motivator for self change: one first hates oneself, then hates the fact that one hates oneself, etc. combine that with the self awareness techniques of lucid dreaming: the realization that anything is possible, paying attention to weird stuff and causes and effects, seeking increased awareness and control. And the result can be a good recipe for personality change.

PPS: this year I have made huge strides in overcoming depression. I now use mindfulness to self correct, and I am happy most of the time despite the fact that I had seasonal depression and this is the season for me to be depressed - and in a sense I am, but I compensate the negatives. I can overcome depression and I can change my personality.

PPPS: Of course, if life is a dream, and given that in a dream anything you truely believe is possible is indeed possible, so given that I believe that I can change my personality I can. :)

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Just to give you motivation that you can really change yourself to become genuinly joyfull person from emotional confused one. 2 years ago i was i had this bad attitude problem where nothing really iterested me. I thought why everything is so boring and at some point i came conclusion that i just live too much inside my head. Even though i was doing something that was suppoused to be fun it was just meaningless to me. I decided to change that and it worked. Nothing really bores me me since i have just mindlesly but consciously started doing all sorts of stuff. I started boxing again one day because i was bored and i just went to the practise and thats it. I decided that i want to meet my relatives i bought airplane ticket to spain and travelled alone to morocco meet my relatives.
I never before did stuff without really planning them and seeing every single negative possibility first but now im just different. I no longer look life as bad or good i just live it doing what i do and consciously choosing what i feel and dont. Just be who you are. Emotiontions and thoughts dont mean anything you can decide what you want to feel and be. I really mean it. Im not misleading you or anything im just stating the fact that if that you can do it if you really want to change. You will get ocassional ups and downs its life but try to become aware the reason which cause them once you know what it is you can just change it or fix it.
Just remember that people who say to you something like that you cant do or change something really are just failed at it themself. Just see it for yourself and decide.
Also what i said is completely true. I dont recommend you thinking positivily or negativily if you want to change. Just see things as they are and just do,feel and think consciously what you want. If you force yourself to think positivily you just end up losing sense of you and feeling worse. You cant lie to yourself when you want to change.
You sound like your on your way there already. Side effect of practising self awareness is you notice what the real problem is in your life. At some point you just realize how meanigless everything is and you become the person you wanna be.
If you take conscious control of yourself you can be anything you want.

Seltiez, Agreed. And also experienced. Perhaps I did not phrase it right to give you the idea that what I did or how I change has been any different, but I read what you wrote and think yes that's how I did it as well. I am a different person now than I was before, much more peaceful and self confident. Oh I may be confused and confusing at times too, but that's part of how I am and I do not mind that and if I ever minded it I could change it. I am beginning to also realize that I live too much inside my head but I do so much less than I used to plus conversely I also like living in my own head, definitely more intuitive than sensing, so that is ok. Where was I trying to prove to you that I am not confused, well I guess that failed LOL. :) The point is I am happy now and at peace, so unlike the way I was before. The thing is though that I am not done changing yet for this season I feel, and I am still exploring the options of who i am becoming.

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Originally Posted by JoannaB

Seltiez, Agreed. And also experienced. Perhaps I did not phrase it right to give you the idea that what I did or how I change has been any different, but I read what you wrote and think yes that's how I did it as well. I am a different person now than I was before, much more peaceful and self confident. Oh I may be confused and confusing at times too, but that's part of how I am and I do not mind that and if I ever minded it I could change it. I am beginning to also realize that I live too much inside my head but I do so much less than I used to plus conversely I also like living in my own head, definitely more intuitive than sensing, so that is ok. Where was I trying to prove to you that I am not confused, well I guess that failed LOL. :) The point is I am happy now and at peace, so unlike the way I was before. The thing is though that I am not done changing yet for this season I feel, and I am still exploring the options of who i am becoming.

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Now that i read your post again it seems that i misunderstood it. You already made the change. I have slight tendency reading longer post hastily and misunderstand them and respond with the first thing that pops in my mind (I will work on that in this forum). I usually always respond act with my first thought on everything thats not serious decision. Cant say its bad things though.

You seem to have done excatly the same thing as me. Its good to see other people getting rid of the cycle of depression. Some people end up waste years in there. Its not something that can be fixed outside.
Im not either done yet. Rather than calling it change i would call it growing.

But yeah i really need to work on understanding these posts correctly and maybe think twice before posting.

Fun thoughts Joanna. I think that is almost like reading a book sometimes if you look into the world around us and think of the crazy possibilities that, though improbable, are fun to think of. In this thought, that life is a dream, it would be interesting to think of consciousness in that state. If reality changes because of the checks, then is their consciousness other than you, is it all one consciousness, or is there just the idea of consciousness? Lol off topic ish.

Sageous. People do change,
it is not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us.
Yes, batman quote. Haha.

Sensei, Yes, I have indeed gone there in my thinking. I do think that if one considers that life is a dream then a follow up thought is who is the dreamer or who are the dreamers. For me as a Christian part of the answer is God is the dreamer. But what about me and others? Are we all living in a shared dream, or is it that we are many parts but we are all one body (all one consciousness) and that separation of consciousness is an illusion? Is God the universe and the universe is conscious? Or am I God, am I the dreamer? Or perhaps we are tulpas in God's mind? Or some weird combination of all of those ideas? Or is it yet another option that I have not come up yet?

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Fair enough. One small edit I would make is that I made no hypothesis that "personality traits are, in fact, the things that 'define' us." I would say rather that we define our personality treats, which I think is more than just a semantic swing. Traits are markers of a greater whole, and really have no ability to define our actual nature, only to act as indicators to what that nature is like (and how it is similar to other people's natures).

I've honestly never witnessed -- or heard of -- a healthy person switching from an introvert to an extrovert, but, given that this is not my field, I'll take your word that it happens.

Good luck with your new personality, JoannaB -- though I would be curious to see what your results were if you took the test again! ;)

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It can happen, for various reasons. I realize you put the disclaimer "healthy" in there, but honestly when are we all perfectly well in consideration of maintaining a balance between being properly socially, mentally, and physically healthy? Throughout the course of one's life, things can take drastic turns. I was born an extrovert apparently, become introverted almost naturally, and then through drug (ab)use, the internet, the sum of all my social interactions, the circumstances that have shaped my life so far, and the position I am in currently, and even how I look physically have drawn extroversion back out of me, but at the same time I can still be very introverted. One might switch entirely from one set of characteristics depending on a certain currently held paradigm, and then the next moment have that paradigm shift and see with it too, their personality shift. Over the course of time, I would say in general it is a balancing act, but the truth is not everybody teeters and totters so much, some are very stuck in the ways they do things, too. There are both those who do and do not experience contrasting personality traits, but just realize that they do both exist.