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    Thread: Shared-Dreaming Debate of 2015

    1. #76
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      I have many, many dreams every night, and can't recall ever having dreamed of the same thing twice. What do you dream after you've dreamed of everything that is in you? For better or worse, my pixies don't seem to like repeating themselves, they regard my memories of what they said before as enough. Rather than say something less true for the sake of saying something different, maybe it is better just to wait.

      I know I'm not contributing much, I'm just doing the best I can with the content I have. Also, understanding the 'pixies', such as they are, and what drives them into action, seems relevant. Their actions take different forms and aren't always apparent.
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    2. #77
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      What do you dream after you've dreamed of everything that is in you?
      I wanted to make a thread on it long time ago, I saw your question and now decided to make it

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...uld-dream.html

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      ^^ Speculation here on this subject was meant to be fun, and perhaps stir our imaginations. I held no assumptions that we were going to unearth the mechanics of shared dreaming on this thread, and I certainly do not feel that must happen in order for a conversation to be had at all. In some venues (forum threads, for instance) discussions about, say, how kidneys work, could be a lot of fun, even if no truths are uncovered and everyone is wrong.
      That is the only reason why I participate in this conversation. I have said enough of what I experienced, that alone can push some ideas. but I don't want to come up with a ready solution now, because I know I cannot, it is too early.

      The process of sharing your own thoughts and reading what others have to say about this subject is always useful.
      Last edited by anderj101; 05-13-2015 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Merged 2 posts.

    3. #78
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      Interesting topic. I know you don't want to hear anecdotal stuff, but shadow of wind and I recently had similar dreams about beards.maybe on the same night. I thought it was at least an interesting coincidence since we are not buddies or anything and have pretty different perspectives on almost everything. Both dreams are posted here in beyond. Shadow? Did you notice the feeling of our dreams being awfully similar?

    4. #79
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      Kadie,

      I don't remember that, though if it was a year or more ago I could easily have forgotten.

      Mark (my real name)

    5. #80
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      It was just in February this year. I can't add them to this post but ill bump one to refresh your memory.

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      Thanks, I forgot about that one.

    7. #82
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      Sorry Sageous. Looks like I killed the thread.

      My thought on the subject is perhaps we humans are not individual organisms but one interconnected. Like the aspen tree. Perhaps one at one end of the grove so to say can affect the growth and formation of one at the other end of the grove. Also, maybe our thoughts and ideas and dreams are also the thoughts, ideas and dreams of every other person just happening at different times. Maybe when we share dreams or have premonitions, we are connecting with the other end of the grove, but we are still connected as one. How we connected to one another is the difficult part. Is it something in our genetics or is it something energetic. I guess only time will tell as science figures it out.
      Last edited by kadie; 05-09-2015 at 08:21 AM.
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    8. #83
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      Quote Originally Posted by kadie View Post
      Sorry Sageous. Looks like I killed the thread.
      That's okay Kadie; I'm pretty sure it was dead already, if not stillborn. It seems people have little to no interest in exploring this subject anymore; even exchanging anecdotes has apparently gotten old enough that the experienced or knowledgeable few still around these forums feel that discussing anything is redundant and dull. Maybe it is.

      Oh well. I guess shared dreaming has entered the LD'ing lexicon as a real phenomenon, and nobody really cares about how or why it could work, just that it does, because they (or someone they know or read about) are sure they have done it. And forget about discussing the implications to reality itself if something like shared-dreaming were as common as the folks here have accepted it to be. Apparently shared-dreaming is what it is because it is, and any discussion of it is boring and passé. I guess such an anecdotal echo-chamber is both the rule here now and becomes boring pretty quickly; not a good foundation for a debate.

      I think that this is an abandonment of a topic that might have springboarded us to discussion of more interesting, metaphysical things. Or not, I guess; but it would have been interesting to at least test the waters for this potential.

      Sorry; ranting a bit. Conversation and big-picture curiosity seems to be out of favor at DV lately; if it's not about a technique or a proven theory, then the thread is invalid or a waste of time. I guess I was hoping for a quality that might not be available just now.

      tl;dr: No Kadie, you didn't kill this stillborn thread; it was just an uninteresting idea. That said, I did like your aspen grove analogy; that is an interesting idea... maybe folks will prove my rant wrong and actually discuss it...
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-09-2015 at 06:45 PM.
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    9. #84
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      Well I guess it's time to throw in my two cents, since I really don't want this thread to die (yet).

      What I'm about to write is purely personal experience and in no way do I pretend that it must be the truth. Nevertheless, it has become my truth over the course of the past three years.
      Beware, it's gonna be a wall of text

      Three years ago, I met another member here on DV. Her name was Windhover@. We both got to know each other just after the founding of the IOSDP by Atras. Starting from that day, we used to exchange daily PM's and we really got along well. We participated in all of the experiments of the IOSDP, but we soon felt like it might not be the right way to attempt shared dreaming.
      We started experimenting on our own and after a few weeks we had the first results.

      Our dreams started to have more and more syncs and similiarities, but we still were a bit skeptic and thought it might have been a coincidence. Sadly, we were really bad at lucid dreaming back then, so we could only ever attempt to share non-lucid dreams.
      A few months into those experiments, we had our first shared non-lucid dream which convinced us was not a coincidence. We both dreamed the exact same dream, but from different perspectives.
      The scenery was the same, the events that happened, the DC's and even the details. We never really cared much about proving that SD exists, especially after this dream erased all doubts.
      So instead of trying to prove SD, we continued to experiment and tried to figure out ways on how to do it consistently.

      In the IOSDP, we came up with several group-experiments. One of the most interesting (to me) was that all members should simultaneously focus on me (I was chosen as the target) in the same night and try to 'enter' my dreams somehow. We didn't have a method, we always just assumed that focusing on the 'energy signature' of a person would suffice. By energy signature, I mean this faint feeling you get when you think about someone/talk to somebody/read somebody's text. It's this feeling which you associate to the person. Just like you have a certain impression of me right now while reading this.

      This experiment was mindblowing to me, since I never had such intense dreams before in my life. I had one confirmed SD with a member I knew for a long time and several synchronicities with the other members. But again, there's no way to prove that this actually happened. Everything I'm writing here is solely personal experience.
      Up until that point, my partner Windy and I have never managed to become lucid in the same night. A few weeks later however we did. And it was the first (and only) shared-LD experience I had in my life.

      It only lasted for a short time, but basically what happened was that in my dream, I tried to summon a portal to find Windy and appeared in my house. Suddenly somebody knocked on my door, and it was Windy. She and I have never exchanged pictures of each other IRL up to that point. We also never told each other anything about our appearances, since we wanted to see if it's possible to 'see' the other person in the dream.
      In the dream, she had slightly red-dyed hair. We hugged and I woke up. When she sent me what happened in her dream that night, I got shocked. She was lucid and she tried to find me. She came to a house and knocked on the door. When the door opened, it was me and we hugged, then she woke up. When I told her about her red hair, she was even more shocked since this was her actualy hair-colour at that time.

      This was the only instance ever where we both managed to be lucid in the same night, which is kinda funny since it's now three years later and we are still struggling with this.
      So before this wall of text becomes even bigger, I'll skip to the present. Over the past three years, we've been maintaining pretty much daily contact with each other, sharing our knowledge and attempting to have shared dreams every once in a while.
      Just a couple of months ago, we were joined by another member. He was very very skeptic and always wanted to find scientifical proof for everything. We told him that we don't have proof, but he was open minded and joined our attempts anyway. Now even he knows that for some weird reason it is possible to share (at least) details of your dreams, we just don't know why yet.

      Obviously we came up with many many theories, discussing them on a regular basis and trying to figure out just why those observations of ours happen.
      What we observed so far is the following:

      -When we don't attempt, we rarely ever share any details
      -When we do attempt, we almost 100% share details, and I'm talking about trustworthy details like all 3 of us dreaming about being in the metro.
      -The most successful 'method' to make those syncs happen has always been just focusing on each other's energy
      -This 'connection' is improved a lot when you actually feel sympathy towards your partner(s)

      It might still be a coincidence, but after hundreds of attempts the number of results just overweigh the doubts.
      Those syncs are now happening on such a frequent and reliable basis, that it has already become something natural to us and we are not even surprised anymore, which is probably also why we never really cared much about proving this to anyone. To us, it's not about proving it, but rather figuring out which possibilities this opens up for us.

      Now, there's probably a lot more I could elaborate on this topic, since after all it's been three years of continously experimenting, but this post is big enough already.
      I hope this story will provide another perspective to this debate

      Just a funny side note: We read a lot of books about those 'supernatural' events and also compared different religions and what they believe in.
      It all seems to come down to this aspen grove analogy: We are all connected.

      Cheers
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      "We are what we think. Everything, what we are, is created by our thoughts. With our thoughts we form the world." -Buddha
      "Not the human who has everything is happy, but the one who needs the least. The one who is happy with nothing, possesses everything." -Diogenes
      "When in the body of a donkey, enjoy the taste of grass." -Tibetan Saying



    10. #85
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      So, as many other people have said before, focusing on a person or their energy signature is productive. Maybe the energy we use to connect with one another is so fine that it can be tuned into with subtle energy. Still something science has yet to explain.

      *Thanks Sageous.
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    11. #86
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      Katsuno, I saw a lot of similarities in the way your thoughts developed along that path compared to our sd group experience.

      One difference is that when we do not attempt, we still pick up each other dreams and waking life events. What matters the most is emotional importance of the event, that alone can guarantee results.

      I also agree with kadie, I always had that feeling that we are all connected.
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    12. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by flowofmysoul View Post
      One difference is that when we do not attempt, we still pick up each other dreams and waking life events. What matters the most is emotional importance of the event, that alone can guarantee results.
      That is very true for us as well. Back when we first got to know each other, it went as far as becoming ill for the same period of time, having nightmares in the same night, etc. Basically anything that involved a lot of emotions (positive or negative) was carried over to the other person to some extent.
      The funny thing is that we're living miles apart, I'm from Europe and she's from the USA haha
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      "We are what we think. Everything, what we are, is created by our thoughts. With our thoughts we form the world." -Buddha
      "Not the human who has everything is happy, but the one who needs the least. The one who is happy with nothing, possesses everything." -Diogenes
      "When in the body of a donkey, enjoy the taste of grass." -Tibetan Saying



    13. #88
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      cooleymd, here is your post #34

      Quote Originally Posted by cooleymd View Post

      Tho I work as a computer programmer I lump myself into the Biochemist/Molecular Biologist category as most of my many years of college are in that field.

      I think that science is relevant as my position is clearly that shared dreaming as I define it (same dream, same time, from brain to brain via a conduit) doesn't exist YET!

      So these dream machines seem relevant to me.

      If shared dreaming is defined some other way then I don't think it means much. For instance I had a dream about Kiira Korpi before I ever met her, if you dreamed of her too is that a shared dream. Is it a premonitory dream? Guess if I go to her next ice stating competition but we end up at a construction site and then take a train ride across Russia, it will have been, but until then I'll remain on the fence. Interestingly I didn't even know who she was when I had the dream, but maybe I had seen her on the web or news and just didn't remember.

      I'm not one of those people who has a weird dream, and then thinks my dreams can't be weird there must be something wrong with the world and everyone else in the world. NO, I'm pretty sure that dreams are weird and people who want to infer great meaning and purpose from every stray thought they can remember while sleeping are the ones far beyond the help of science.
      Scientific research on shared dreaming happened without a conduit in 1960's

      Checkout Post #14 of my thread called "What are your thoughts on this?" The link is in my signature.

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      Paragraph 11

      (Calvin) Hall also extended his explorations in another direction that produced interesting results.

      "Sometimes, the sleep of two subjects was monitered on the same night.

      The subjects slept in separate rooms which were located on either side of the room in which the EEG (Electroencephalograph) was kept.

      Occasionally, the two subjects would have REM periods close together in time, and in two instances a striking congruence between the dreams reported by the subjects from these REM periods was was noted".

      (...)

      Subject A dreamed of receiving a special delivery letter and subject B dreamed that his sister was writting a letter which was to be sent at a special rate.

      On another occasion,

      Subject B dreamed of going into a store to buy something.

      (...)

      Subject C reported a dream in which he went to a store to buy something (p. 157 - 158).

      This finding of dream of dream to dream correspondence was also investigated in a sleep laboratory by A. Rechtschaffen and will be described later in this paper.

      Extensive non-laboratory studies on mutual dreaming have been studied by Linda Magallon (1997) and on Group Dreaming by Jean Campbell (2006)].
      Post #23 is not about shared dreaming, cooleymd, but a girl dreaming about what a lab tech was reading.

      Paragraph 15 (a)

      A few sentences later Foulkes reported:

      "I have experienced a personally impressive instance of apparent dream telepathy**in another laboratory study ostensibly unrelated to ESP.

      While working one night on our continuing study of children's dreams, I was watching for the appearance of a REM period in the sleep of an preadolescent girl ...

      I picked up and began editing a review of an article on the effects of*thirst*on the sleep cycle.....

      The reviewer's second point was that:

      "The*cheese and crackers*bedtime snack added a new and seemingly unnecessary aspect to the deprivation condition"....

      The subject was now in a REM period and I initiated an awakening (p. 237):

      She reported a dream in which a man came to her house and had a*snack*and someone asked the dreamers father if he wanted*a beer.*Her father decided he wanted one, even though he was a strict teetotaler. Then there were* these three boxes of crackers *...

      one box of crackers had two white pieces, white crackers, and then a little piece of*cheese between, a whole pack like that, and then the other box of crackers was white and the other packages were brown, and each of the three kids got one, and we kept trading around with them" (p. 237).

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post

      Foulkes noted that this girl had no dreams of thirst-cheese-crackers in any of the other 25 nights they had observed her dreams, nor had

      "this particular combination of elements ever occurred in hundreds of dreams we have collected from other children in the same study in which the subject was serving" (p. 237).

      Foulkes admitted;

      "an experience such as this keeps alive one's spark of interest in telepathic dreams , whatever the outcome of his own more formal experiments... The atmosphere was quite in contrast to the highly self-conscious "we're-all-on-trial" environment in our first formal replication study" (p. 238).
      Post #28

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      Dr. Allan Rechtschaffen, Professor Emeritus in the Department of Psychiatry and Psychology at the University of Chicago, is a noted pioneer in the field of sleep research.

      He was invited to present an experimental design for a 1968 conference in France sponsored by the Parapsychology Foundation on Methodology in Psi Research.
      Post #29

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post


      In his opening remarks, (Rechtschaffen, 1970) stated:

      "I was assigned the job of presenting a design of an experiment in ESP, based on current sleep and dream research...I thought I ought to do an ESP experiment before I presented a design.

      So

      during the the past month I ran a little pilot study together with a student of mine, Mr James Kahn...

      The basic idea of the experiment was that if a psi signal is best recieved during an altered state of consciousness, perhaps it is also best generated during the same or similar state.

      Therefore,

      we wanted both the signal and reception to occur in an altered state of consciousness, namely a dream. ...

      We noted a good deal of correspondence, quite anecdotally, between dreams occurring about the same time in the night by two sleepers (p. 87-88)."

      The best example of this was the following, recorded with two subjects who knew each other quite well:
      Post #30

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post


      "In the first dream,

      one subject dreamt about students singing in Russsian and the other subject dreamt about students doing some kind of interpretive singing.

      In the second dream,

      the first subject was taking a violin lesson and the other subject was learning a guitar melody.

      In the third dream,

      the first subject was watching a James Cagney gangster movie, and the other subject reported a dream about a recent gangster movie, Bonnie and Clyde (p. 89). ..."
      Post #31

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post

      As the subjects knew each other, the possibility of collusion, which we really doubt, could not be rulee out.

      So

      ...
      Post #32

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      So ...

      We had to go on and introduce experimentally an external stimulus into the dream.

      We did this by post hypnotic suggestion.
      Post #33

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post

      Before the subject went to sleep for the night, he was hypnotized,

      and

      while he was in trance we told him that during the night, he would have a certain dream.
      Post #35

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      "The very first night that we tried it, we told the subject that he would dream the death of Martin Luther King and of a fear of riots,

      and

      He dreamt that Martin Luther King had been shot and that somebody threw a rock and they were afraid a riot would would start.

      The other subject, who had not recieved any suggestion, dreamt of a Negro policeman who was beating another man and he was afraid that sombody would throw a brick and start a riot."
      Post #36

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      "On the other night we told this subject to dream he was in an amusement park, having a very good time.

      He dreamt that and specifically he dreamt about riding on a merry-go-round.

      The other subject had a dream of people laughing and running in circles and there were 'grining funny looking horses' in his dream."
      Post #37

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      Rechtschaffen then decided to use hypnosis to investigate the possibility of inducing SIMULTANEOUS dreams.

      He reported some very striking correspondences between these hypnotically induced dreams.
      Here is the page



      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...houghts-2.html

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    14. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      Scientific research on shared dreaming happened without a conduit in 1960's
      Cooleymd was correct in including "conduit" in his personal definition of SD, I think.

      The conduit between dreaming minds doesn't need to be wires, radio, or some machine. It can be mystical, comprised of physical forces we have not yet discovered, or even some form of large-scale quantum entanglement, but there must be a conduit.

      There must be some route that our thoughts take to move from one dreaming mind to another. Since there is no mechanical link between two people dreaming, and their brainwaves alone lack both the necessary energy to move more than an extremely short distance and cannot be aimed at specific people, there must be something to guide thoughts from dreamer to dreamer in order for SD to work.

      I have a feeling that the science done in the '60's, and more recently for that matter, was first just trying to establish that SD can happen, and the search for a conduit for the SD would come later.

      I think this lack of a known conduit is a profound problem with SD and at the same time discovering the conduit might be a world-changing event. So Cooleymd's inclusion of a conduit in his personal definition of SD was to me a very good idea.

      tl;dr: there must be a means of connection, a conduit, between dreamers for SD to work, a conduit that need not be anything mechanical, and could (or perhaps must) be an as yet unknown force, physical event, or mystical event. Discovery of that conduit will have a major impact not only on dreamers, but on the world we know.
      Last edited by Sageous; 05-10-2015 at 07:04 PM.
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      I have some speculations I would like to share with you.

      I believe that humans have three minds: the Id, the Ego and the Collective Unconscious (or, as I like to referr to, the Overrconscious). And there's also another fascinating psychological element which is the Self.
      I think it's pretty evident that lower life forms only possess the Id. They're moved only by instincts.
      The Ego is a more advanced kind of mind. Some more evolved animals like apes, dolphins, and of course humans have it. The Ego opens new ways to interact with reality, through the development of comunications, objects manipulations and so on. In mankind the Ego has permitted to create sciences, enginering etc.

      But in man there's also an Overconscious mind structure. It is not intended to work with matter, it's just the domain of symbols and ideas. Unfortunately not every human has access to this structure, necause his/her Self is still identified with the Ego.

      What I'm trying to point is that reason(=Ego) is just an evolutionary tool, which I believe has the aim of making us interacting with space and time. But for non-spacial/temporal stuff it is impotent. And I find rational evidence of the existence of this stuff in the Jungian theory of the Collective Unconscious. And this could demonstrate that Shared Dreams simply shouldn't be researched in space-time and could also be a phenomenon we could "understand"(=honestly accept) only when our Self would move to the next step, identifying with the Overconscious.

      Another cool clue is that in "The Elegant Universe" Brian Green says that M-Theory has some implications which shows that space and time don't really exist.

      I want to underline that I use the word Ego with no deregatory intention.
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    16. #91
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      Quote Originally Posted by Synergeon View Post
      I have some speculations I would like to share with you.

      I believe that humans have three minds: the Id, the Ego and the Collective Unconscious (or, as I like to referr to, the Overrconscious). And there's also another fascinating psychological element which is the Self.
      I think it's pretty evident that lower life forms only possess the Id. They're moved only by instincts.
      The Ego is a more advanced kind of mind. Some more evolved animals like apes, dolphins, and of course humans have it. The Ego opens new ways to interact with reality, through the development of comunications, objects manipulations and so on. In mankind the Ego has permitted to create sciences, enginering etc.

      But in man there's also an Overconscious mind structure. It is not intended to work with matter, it's just the domain of symbols and ideas. Unfortunately not every human has access to this structure, necause his/her Self is still identified with the Ego.

      What I'm trying to point is that reason(=Ego) is just an evolutionary tool, which I believe has the aim of making us interacting with space and time. But for non-spacial/temporal stuff it is impotent. And I find rational evidence of the existence of this stuff in the Jungian theory of the Collective Unconscious. And this could demonstrate that Shared Dreams simply shouldn't be researched in space-time and could also be a phenomenon we could "understand"(=honestly accept) only when our Self would move to the next step, identifying with the Overconscious.

      Another cool clue is that in "The Elegant Universe" Brian Green says that M-Theory has some implications which shows that space and time don't really exist.

      I want to underline that I use the word Ego with no deregatory intention.
      Nice thoughts, a agree with the most here. I am glad you mentioned Ego. Earlier I was pointing towards this direction, but did not want to say anything unless I see somebody who got similar flow of thoughts. I wrote this to another person last week, will copy paste here

      "To understand such a complex picture like shared dreaming, we have to think of fundamental questions. What is life? I see a tendency of shared dreamers to think of death and what is after death. I think the reason for that is that it is impossible to understand black without knowing white, same way it is impossible to understand life without knowing death. So we are naturally getting interested of what is death. Now when we step on that way, it drags us far into the unknown and we stay there. Like an anchor, we are attached to fear of the unknown. I remember when I had my 'final dream', nothing was wrong, everything was right. There I accepted death as something neutral, I did not have any good or bad feelings about it. I think the same should happen now in order to let to continue. Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about dying or etc, I am talking about the acceptance of death, a harmony between life and death. And it wasn't an easy thing to do. The main problem is ego, we think of our self as a priority when thinking about death. So to accept death we should let go off our ego, at least for some time, to be able to look at this from a different angle.

      So I think I've done that a week ago, then lost it and now trying again. I also understand that by trying I am doing it only worse, so I am trying without trying, staying somehow neutral to it. And when I reached that moment where I didn't feel myself as a person, but myself as part of something bigger, It felt amazing. It was felt like having dream thoughts in waking reality. So this is where I have ended up, I have more thoughts, but not ready to form a ready idea about them yet. I feel like I am going through a complex spiritual upgrade or path, don't know how to call it.

      Ever felt like you know everything in your dream? But then you start asking yourself questions and it seems like that knowledge is slipping through your fingers. This is exactly what I felt on final dream and what I felt a week ago. "

      That is a short way to describe it, but I think you will understand me.
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      Yes, basically I want to say that we're rational, but there's no a priori demonstration that reason is the ultimate explaining tool. So we should move on

      I want to add that by the way I've not had any shared dream, I'm just trying to justify their possibility, but I'm not declaring they're true abecause I lack in experience.

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      I'm busy right now so I haven't read all comments, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume this hasn't been brought up. I think the best way to determine the possibility of SD is with the exchange of objective information. If that can happen, perception of the rest of the dream doesn't really matter as far as whether or not sharing dreams is possible. Two people can have a similar dream by coincidence, and it is even likely that they'll shift their memory of the dream once they realize similarities. However, the chances of a 5+ digit number being transmitted accurately from one person to the other just by coincidence is extremely low. Even less so if it's done several times. I myself am a skeptic of SD but desperately hope for it to be possible. So along the lines of what I've just said, has anyone here had SD where objective info was transferred without any chance that it happened outside of the dream? That's what it'll take for me to be convinced. I would attempt it myself of course, but I've still yet to have a LD at all. Testing for SD is one of my first objectives, and I plan to carry out the tests in a scientific manner which leaves no room for doubt.

      The question that I always raise to myself is how SD might work if possible. Through what mechanism could objective information be transmitted wirelessly from one human brain to another. Well from a physics standpoint, this could only be possible if a signal was sent, if a connection existed. There are two problems here. The first is that we should be able to measure any signal being sent from brain to brain, the second is that there's not much evidence if any to suggest that I've brain could actually decipher the signals from another. So unless brains use a signal type that no piece of machinery can detect, there remains only one way it might work as far as I see it. That way is quantum virtual reality theory. To putnit very short and simply, it suggests that the physical universe doesn't exist but is a simulation. However it is not a simulation in a computer which exists in some other physical reality, rather there is no physical reality, only a quantum reality. That quantum reality consists of data being processed. If QVRT is accurrate, then this perception of reality is actualy jst the output of the quantum data processing. It's like this universe is the screen which displays what's happening on the quantum computer. What this means for SD is that we wouldn't have to be able to measure the connection like I said earlier. The connection could exist at the quantum computer level and be just as good without being measurable here. The best analogy is having a button in a game trigger some action withoutbthere being a measurable connection within the gameworld, rather the connection is in the coding. This model would also explain quantum entanglement very nicely and solves a lot of quandaries of physics. Well anyway that's some good for thought. I remain skeptical but hopeful that I'll be able to harness SD at some point.
      Last edited by anderj101; 05-13-2015 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Merged 2 posts.

    19. #94
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      I stumbled across this thread today (much to the doom of my productivity) and was very interested in a lot of the ideas that were brought up (surprisingly few of which were critically addressed). I'll organize my thought and make a post as time permits.

      Fundamentally I believe that the issue here is that before we discuss does shared dreaming exist? we must first come to some sort of agreed understanding of what shared dreaming is, be that a concrete definition or otherwise. Consider the notion of the ego. Equally unprovable as shared dreaming and yet it is scientifically accepted and a useful tool when discussing psychology. Yes people interpret the idea differently but it's been defined to an adequate enough degree that productive discussion can take place.

      Furthermore I think that we need to find some sort of common ground between the metaphysical/abstract and the scientific/logically. When discussing the nature of shared dreaming (and, as an extension, dreaming in general) the scientific among us will have to be willing to discuss and toy with ideas that are by no means provable. On the other hand, when discussing potential experiments, those who have experienced shared dreaming will have to take a step back from the abstract and focus on what can actually be measured. Consider how lucid dreaming was proven. Not through elaborate dream recordings of someone transforming a pencil into a dragon. Simple eye movements.

      One really interesting idea that was completely ignored, in my opinion, was flowofmysoul's claim that the easiest way to 'communicate' in a shared dream is through emotions (as an aside I'm not sure why we are so quick to dismiss the experiences of those who claim to have SD. We should be picking these peoples' brains for all they have). While exchanging a password would indeed prove shared dreaming it seems to me that that is more closely tied to telepathic communications (as mentioned previously).

      Anyway, what this claim immediately reminded me of was Lovheim's Cube of Emotion. The basic idea is that fundamental emotions can be directly correlated to brain chemistry. For example if someone is experiencing fear their brain will produce low amounts of serotonin and noradrenaline and high amounts of dopamine. This model is fairly new (2012) and not proven but if it were proven one could attempt to induce an emotion in the person they are sharing a dream with while having that person's monoamine levels monitored.

      That's it for now. More to come if this thread livens up again.
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    20. #95
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      There seems to be so many possibilities. Perhaps even consciousness itself is the common thread. Maybe we as the human race are just now exploring what consciousness can do and how we effect the tiniest things just by our acknowledgement of the thing. I remember seeing a thread somewhere about whether or not the universe is conscious. If it is, then it would not be hard to make a little jump in our discussion to include the nature of premonitions, remote viewing AP and other psi phenomenon . maybe consciousness is the common thread that ties all these things together. The common denominator. It transcends time and space. IDK. Just throwing it out there.
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    21. #96
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      BrotherGoose

      Quote Originally Posted by BrotherGoose View Post

      I stumbled across this thread today (much to the doom of my productivity) and was very interested in a lot of the ideas that were brought up (surprisingly few of which were critically addressed). I'll organize my thought and make a post as time permits.

      Fundamentally I believe that the issue here is that before we discuss does shared dreaming exist? we must first come to some sort of agreed understanding of what shared dreaming is, be that a concrete definition or otherwise. Consider the notion of the ego. Equally unprovable as shared dreaming and yet it is scientifically accepted and a useful tool when discussing psychology. Yes people interpret the idea differently but it's been defined to an adequate enough degree that productive discussion can take place.

      Furthermore I think that we need to find some sort of common ground between the metaphysical/abstract and the scientific/logically. When discussing the nature of shared dreaming (and, as an extension, dreaming in general) the scientific among us will have to be willing to discuss and toy with ideas that are by no means provable. On the other hand, when discussing potential experiments, those who have experienced shared dreaming will have to take a step back from the abstract and focus on what can actually be measured. Consider how lucid dreaming was proven. Not through elaborate dream recordings of someone transforming a pencil into a dragon. Simple eye movements.

      One really interesting idea that was completely ignored, in my opinion, was flowofmysoul's claim that the easiest way to 'communicate' in a shared dream is through emotions

      (as an aside I'm not sure why we are so quick to dismiss the experiences of those who claim to have SD. We should be picking these peoples' brains for all they have).

      While exchanging a password would indeed prove shared dreaming it seems to me that that is more closely tied to telepathic communications (as mentioned previously).

      Anyway, what this claim immediately reminded me of was:



      Lovheim's Cube of Emotion.



      The basic idea is that fundamental emotions can be directly correlated to brain chemistry. For example if someone is experiencing fear their brain will produce low amounts of serotonin and noradrenaline and high amounts of dopamine.

      This model is fairly new (2012) and not proven but if it were proven one could attempt to induce an emotion in the person they are sharing a dream with while having that person's monoamine levels monitored.

      That's it for now. More to come if this thread livens up again.

      That table interests me

      It reads that

      ♡♡♡

      1) - when I am experiencing shame and/or humiliation

      The brain chemical Serotonin is low
      The brain chemical Dopamine is low
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is low

      2) - when I am experiencing anxiety and/or anguish

      The brain chemical Serotonin is low
      The brain chemical Dopamine is low
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is high

      3) - when I am experiencing fear and/or terror

      The brain chemical Serotonin is low
      The brain chemical Dopamine is high
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is low

      4) - when I am experiencing anger and/or rage

      The brain chemical Serotonin is low
      The brain chemical Dopamine is high
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is high

      5) - when I am experiencing contempt and/or disgust

      The brain chemical Serotonin is high
      The brain chemical Dopamine is low
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is low

      6) - when I am experiencing suprise

      The brain chemical Serotonin is high
      The brain chemical Dopamine is low
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is high

      7) - when I am experiencing enjoyment and/or joy

      The brain chemical Serotonin is high
      The brain chemical Dopamine is high
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is low

      8) - when I am experiencing interest and/or excitement

      The brain chemical Serotonin is high
      The brain chemical Dopamine is high
      The brain chemical Noradrenaline is high

      ♡♡♡

      I love dream Remote viewing laboratory's and share dreaming attempts like my thread:

      ☆☆☆

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-tutorial.html

      ☆☆☆☆ 3/243

      because I get that wonderful interest and excitement feeling in the pit of my tummy as I fall asleep chanting, in my head, "what's in the remote viewing box" or "EbbTide000's avatar, take me to the sacred beach", (for share dreaming).


      ♡♡♡

      Years ago I heard that the acient Tibetan's had named many more emotions than other cultures had named.

      Then

      Having a name for every emotion a human can experience, the monks learn how to observe them within themselves. Later they learn to stay in the emotional state of equanimity.

      From this state of equanimity they can ... sort-of ... ummmm ... do anything (including amazing stuff) by playing their many, many emotional states like a finely tuned, exquisite musical instrument. Including ALL the so called psychic stuff, (remote viewing, precognition, share dreaming, and astral projection together, in groups).

      The reason they don't talk about it to outsiders is because it takes years to learn the names of the emotional states available to humans and then control the experience of, the many, many different human emotional states. Even the bad emotional states that other cultures lump together under the one broad name of "depression or misery" are very powerful, when understood.

      All my 55 years of life I've noticed that after a bad day of sadness/ misery/ depression etc, That's when I would get my most memorable, spiritual dreams and such. It feels to me that spiralling down into the empty void (deep misery) draws me close to ... enlightenment (???)

      Here's a link that touches on this briefly:

      ♥♥♥

      Tibetan Buddhism and research psychology: a match made in Nirvana?

      ♥♥♥


      Dealing with emotions

      Buddhist monks have long been admired for their emotional control, and a previous MIT conference participant, Paul Ekman, PhD, a psychology professor at the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine, thinks exploration of this skill may help psychologists better understand ways people can deal with unpleasant emotions.

      Tibetan Buddhist monks, explains Ekman, practice intensive mental awareness through mindfulness meditation--where emotions and other mental events are recognized, but not reacted to. This training may give them the ability to weather emotional experiences--such as fear--to an extent unheard of in Westerners.
      In the course of his research, Ekman and Robert Levenson, PhD, a psychology professor at the University of California, Berkeley, may have found a man who cannot be startled.

      In a series of yet unpublished experiments, Ekman exposed one Tibetan Buddhist monk to a sudden sound as loud as a firecracker and monitored the participant's

      blood pressure,
      muscle movements,
      heart rate and
      skin temperature

      for signs of startle.

      The Buddhist monk, possibly due to hours of practice regulating his emotions through meditation, registered little sign of disturbance.

      "We found things we had never seen before," says Ekman, who is in the process of verifying his results through replication of the experiment.
      Emotions, explains Ekman, have evolved to "run our behavior automatically," especially in situations requiring quick response and little time for deliberation.

      Buddhist monks, says Ekman, practice a fine-grained awareness of their own feelings through meditation "in order, in their words, to recognize the spark before the flame."
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    22. #97
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      Katsuno, I might be interested in shared dream experiment if you are interested. A motive I have is that I want to do a demonstration/proof in cooperation with academic researchers eventually. I haven't succeeded in finding any interested, but for if I ever do, maybe I should not fall so far out of practice. Another related motive is I worry that part of myself will atrophy and die if I don't use it.

      Sageous, I guess you know the reasons I don't post much on the topic any more. One is my wife is against my interest and activity in that area, so I'm caught in the middle that way. Maybe she's a good voice for much of the rest of the world in that regard. Also I think that further brainstorming about mechanisms would be a farce at this point, we don't know what we're talking about, and aren't even close enough to have speculative intuitions that have much real content to them. I can say more about how I think people's suggestions about quantum interactions or signals being sent don't make any sense, but constant naysaying is tiring, and I really don't have anything else to contribute.

      I think there's a world, potentially, where shared dreaming is easy and commonplace. Whether there's a path from our world to that world I don't know. But I am fairly certain that fear or materialism or lack of interest or lack of evolution are not the reasons that our world is not that world. The fear is there for a reason. We have a problem with evil, and our psychological walls protect us just as our physical boundaries protect against infectious diseases. To solve the problem of shared dreaming, we have to solve the problem of evil. Then shared dreaming is no problem. Of course a major part of how we solve the problem of evil is by living, and for some of us exploring shared dreaming is a necessary part of living. But pursuit of shared dreaming isn't the most important part. It is like trying to build a healthy business in a corrupt society. You have to work on the business, but you also have to work on the corruption. To the extent that you don't have enough power to stop the corruption, at some point further efforts on the business are futile, and the criminal element ultimately perverts and harvests what you built up. Or to use a similar analogy, if most of your employees are struggling with drug addiction, that drags down the company also. Creating a healthier and fairer work environment can make it easier for people to overcome the drugs, but that has to happen too. My point is that I think that lack of dreaming prowess isn't what is holding me back spiritually, and I have to deal with whatever is holding me back, because that's also what holds back the dreaming prowess, and is reflected also in our forum stagnation. This is one reason that when I try to share a dream, the topic I always pick is redemption, because that is key to what ultimately supports shared dreaming. I know I've said this before. I'm not trying to argue or make a new point, I'm just saying where I'm at for the sake of sharing something.

      A year or two ago I suggested that lack of time was preventing me from getting more involved, but that's not it so much any more. I find some time for pointless things like reading sports news, but don't find the motivation or emotional space for engaging more here. Maybe I can do better.
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    23. #98
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      I just suck at it. If I wasn't such a bad dreamer I would spend more time doing shared dreaming. Mostly lack of sleep.

      I find patterns in my dreams. The latest pattern I find is that when I am linked to a certain person. I can link to other persons through them. I.e. The ex boyvriend of a friend. Whom i've never met. Suddenly appears in my dream. I see this more and more. The links is like tunnels of thoughts. or tunnels of people. Which has been my infantile guess. I think we as a species are one-whole. And we can dream as a whole species. Or dream as our ego. We can do an infinite amount of things. But shared dreaming is just one step closer to dreaming as a whole.. Leaving all other physican and non-physical theories aside. This is what I think is going on. The entire thing is like a closed lightbulb. A learning stage for a much much greater reality.
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    24. #99
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      relevart joined 3 years ago but I see no Threads or posts till 19-May this year. Then he opened this thread:



      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...nvitation.html

      ★ 17 replies | 355 view(s)

      This is relevart's opening post:

      Quote Originally Posted by relevart View Post
      Anyone who wants to dream with me tonight (or from today to sunday - 20.05.2015), sign in below with your nickname and the desire for a common dreaming. Do not worry about time intervals.

      I wish all the beautiful dreams.

      Forum code:*

      Post 17 is this

      Quote Originally Posted by EbbTide000 View Post
      Hey

      Gaea and relevart

      Am a gunna catch the bus and go to my sacred beach tomorrow. Then, Am a gunna imagine the cute little donkeys (in this Youtube) frolicking between Grange Beach and Henley Beach Jetties.



      https://youtu.be/a7sKTEabsb4

      ♥(3:19) 751,754

      These mini donkeys make great alternatives to ponies or regular-sized donkeys since they don't need as big a space to roam around in. Perfect for that little girl that always wanted her own pony!♥♥♥

      I Can't be a sea horse because they live in the sea. If I try to be a sea horse out of the sea ... other dreamers might see a scary dragon.

      So a friendly, lovable, miniature donkey, I'll "Be"

      Oh!

      I just discovered how brave and protective "I Am" in my dream-donky-form.



      https://youtu.be/XbPRjZ9nEVo

      ★( 122,893 views

      Bad Ass Donkey Saves Goat From Mountain Lion

      Uploaded on Sep 20, 2010

      News report

      of a bad as anything donkey and the mountain lion that got his goat, or tried to.....

      So when we meet on the beach, remember, I am not just a pretty face.

      Forum code:*
      But I didn't get to Henley Beach yesterday.

      To day I bought some sprigs of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme form Coles. Tomorrow, Tuesday, I hope to bus to Henley Beach, nibble on my parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme while imagining my dream character Donkey frolicking between Grange Beach and Henley Beach Jetties.

      The pungent flavors of parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme will help me keep focosed on setting my intention to dream at relevart's dream location.

      If any one reading this thread wants to come, here is the dream location again:

      Forum code:*

      So when we meet on the beach, remember, I am not just a pretty face.

      Forum code:*

      Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme.



      https://youtu.be/Og7JS8mcp3c

      ♥(3:05)284,736 views
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    25. #100
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      I'll try!

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