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    Thread: Persistent Dream Worlds

    1. #1
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      Red face Persistent Dream Worlds

      Hi all,

      I'm sure experienced lucid dreamers had encountered distinct familiarity in some of the dream settings from time to time as well as there are those who manage to anchor themselves within the dream world firmly and still maintain lucidity thereby enhancing stability and realism of the world around them, but lets go deeper and talk about persistence.

      Persistence: The continued or prolonged existence of something.

      By persistence I don't mean something remaining unchanged forever on every encounter, but rather evolving and adaptive much like our own waking reality.

      • If someone breaks your window it remains broken unless you get it fix it.
      • If you get into an accident and the damage remains the same as long as you don't get it fixed.
      • You carve your name on a tree and it stays there unless it's removed.
      • Plant a seed and eventually grows into healthy plant or withers away without sunlight or water.


      I know that some had attempted to create persistent worlds where they may return to on different sessions. I also read dream journals of people experiencing continued persistent worlds without creating them themselves. So, how far does this persistence go? Are we in a way creating alternate dream realities in a instanced space almost like an alternate reality or its just through faculty of our brain? all chemical and electrical? Lets put our thinking caps and try to unravel this unique phenomena of persistence. Have you personally found yourself in persistent worlds? Have you created them yourselves? Lets share!

      Disclaimer: Before any of you oldies roll your eyes... I'm well aware others may have talked about persistence, but i don't want to revive old dead threads and many serious encounters of persistence are noted in dream journals and not forum posts.
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    2. #2
      ATA
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      From my experience is posible but there are many problems i actualy try to build persistent shared world . My world is still in early phase but i learn few things from expedimnets so far.

      Its importatnt decide if you want personal world (in brain) od shared one (somewhere in other reality).

      One of main problems is deconptualization becouse dreams are build like network of concepts with realtions and sensory experince is build from it . For your type of persistent world you need much more concepts tahan noramal dream have normal dream have only few hudred and rest is created by probability in deconceptulization proces to fill the gaps . You need buld detaied concepts network or save generated sensory data as conceps (very large memory demand).
      *some theory about deconceptualization (intantination) http://cosy.informatik.uni-bremen.de...is_imagery.pdf
      Last edited by ATA; 11-08-2015 at 04:03 PM.
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      Yes, I have visited and created "persistent worlds". My theory is the dream plane is another plane of existence, just as real as the waking life physical plane. Things in dreams seem "less persistent" because so much of what we experience can be created by our minds, especially in our "Inner Worlds" or as ATA says, our brains, minds.
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      Essentially these persistent and even our regular dreams could be alternate realities existing in an another plane? That's theoretically a possibility. I even come across a topic discussing exactly that. However, it doesn't focus on persistence.

      Our brain is the compiler that interprets this reality in a way we can experience it - much like shared dreams. It's usually not identical for all the participants. Our brain tends to make substitutions, right? Depending on how concrete the world is, the more stable our brain can try to keep it. Ultimately it's probably up to our brain to interpret these realities. So, based on how much concepts or conditions are woven in a world less work our brain has to do to interpret and render it. Then rather than just persistence we have to consider exactly what makes these dreams persist. This line of thought begs the question, how does the conditions of the world we create stay intact? If through expectation, then these conditions are personal and not centralized. There must be some other way. Can a collective centralized consciousness such as a collective consciousness be at work?

      Anyone, please feel free to shed some more light into your experience with persistence? ^^
      Last edited by lucidbunnie; 11-09-2015 at 06:11 PM.

    5. #5
      ATA
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      I try solve this in my dream world.

      Some hypothesis:

      Sensory preception of dream is created in brain or at least act like it. This sensory preception is based on decoceptualizaon its a reverse proces of normal reality preception data from senses--) concepts.

      I assume limited data transfer band in untrained presons and data transfer work probably somehow by quantum influnce of neurones (only hypothesis no hard data ) from neuroscience we know taht one neurone can represent specific concept and by activation of neurone also acivate it its "links" dependent of link strengt (also more complex things like frequenci and phase sinchonization of brainwaves..) . So ltes assume for now data transfer in shared dreams work this way by influncing neurones to get some sensory experince for instance of "my room" i need activate in this model only one concept "my room" witch can be theoreticly represent by one neuron . This is very different form sensory experince based on sensory data for better imaginitation something like pixels of image or voxels of 3d space where you need to represent "my room" milions of specific data and in result very precisly activate milions on neurons ,probably also activate it to much higher level to overcome neural noise and its filtration.

      So question is how to make moust precize senzoric representation from lowest amount of concepts.

      Every concepts have something like probability filed (only usefull concept for imagine how it work ) of features like color , shape , position in space ... this is based on previous experience of object , beliefs, how brain work...

      When we add more concepts this "probability filelds" influnce each other , we can use this influnce o limit numbers of posibilities of translation.

      Best is use limitation to subset of translations witch ale realatively specific and bouth people share . I use in my world only partial limitation by setings like medival fantasy RPG .

      Next part is similar problem like in online games and sinchronozation data stransfer to server . Decide witch type of data will be saved localy in the brain and wich type in the server.
      This may cuse various problems in persistent world like person see only his changes to world or load differt set of data wich change traslation something like setup .

      To lower this problem i implemt various comunication protocols to try much up translation mechanism in people when they cretae party in dream world to get very similar sensory experience.

      ---
      To my is one of porblems now quality of translation becouse i have set to high i usualy "see" ony concepts position is space and no aditional things this is useful to uderstand how it work and iflunce it but is no fun .
      I do some expedimnts to create sytem whre i can chnge setup of qulity of translation or higlight original concepts .Also try use somethig like layers of image . For instance when i suse setup about 20% accuracy i see my dream world city with buldings , people and many things witch i expect to exist in fantasy RPG but if i ude 95% i only see actuly exiting persistent concepts like highlihtet areas city , portal , potion shop . Adding and influncing existing concepts is still in very basic level i plan use somthing like grafic setting level of detail to allow acces to people with diffrent "data band " . Also plan in future use trick with % or see concepts in LD , so far i try only look only to memory of dream and visualize uderling conceptul net .
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      ATA, that's for our input! We all have our own way of seeing and describing things. To simplify, I think you compare it to online multiplayer games like mmorpgs where info is transferred between client system and server (host) through server-client relationship. Here, based on the client system things can change. Some client systems may use very low graphic, sound, and even interface settings. There can also be information lost during the transfer between server-client resulting in positional inconsistencies for example. I think it's a very accurate way to look at shared and persistent dream worlds. There are people who have have modded their games so their experience may end up being different from other client systems. Most professional games require proper patching to play, but if an online game has poor update system then each client systems may have different versions of the game thereby altering their experience much like our own life experience influence our dreams.

      So, where is the host information stored when it comes to dreams? In games it's on a server physically located somewhere in the world. Could it be each individual consciousness that acts as a host? or can it exist on an delocalized plane? I have read some shared dream experience of places independent of participants. However, these shared dream experiences were of known places like Chichén Itzá so I'm not too sure about a delocalized host.

      Another food for thought, just like our interpretation of dream reality, the level of details, and inconsistencies... same can be said about our walking reality. Lot of us may perceive only things within our belief system, knowledge, experience, as well as conscious affinity. I bring this up because I had felt this world to be less than stable for quite some time. Just months before my significant other's recent passing we both started seeing overwhelming amount of synchronicity on a daily basis. This itself doesn't say much, but it was an interesting experience. In any case, I'm personally hoping at least someone had some success confirming the possibility of a delocalized host when it comes to dream worlds.
      Last edited by lucidbunnie; 11-11-2015 at 02:32 PM.

    7. #7
      ATA
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      I not have much experince about "host" systems in normal and shared dreams but my world is stored somewhere in another dimension i cant describe the place only know is a similar place like for shamanic travel , I used some things and techniqes form shamnic world to create my own. I have something like adres or link witch i send to people.

      I think is possible individual consciousness act is a host for world but i never try it for whole world i think is simpler create place somewhere . Its possible use it as host for sharing or transmiting some types of informations.
      In reality there are many comunication layers and two-way comunications i use some of them for other applications. I tryed for instance view my world by translator in someone else + try to get some data from his actual preception (his point of view) in this case i have direct connection to him and bouth of us have connection to world server but in this old times server do not support "translators" synchronizations to get same experinece form world.

      Data in the brain can be influnced in many stages of processing something similar also work in this another "dimnension", from this there is lot of possible combination of comunication and sharing moust of them have some downsides.
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