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    Thread: Theta vs. Delta Mutual Dreams

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      Theta vs. Delta Mutual Dreams

      My question for all of you is whether your experiences seem to confirm this or not.

      I have experienced two types of mutual dreaming. One occurs during theta sleep, and the other during ordinary REM sleep, which I assume is delta. My delta sleep mutual dreaming appears to me to be body-centered countertransference (there is an article on this in Wikipedia), as it occurs between me and family members who are sleeping on or next to me as I sleep. We share similar thoughts during dreams (as reported verbally by the other individual waking up during the dream), or I dream things that prepare me for the correct emotional response towards that person when I wake up. It can also prepare me for the other individual waking up and what I need to do.

      My theta sleep mutual dreaming occurs during the head tingling that sometimes happen when I sleep (part of exploding head syndrome feelings, again you can find this on Wikipedia). I am rather certain that this effect is theta in character because I can also induce the same type of feeling by focusing a little bit on my breathing during pre-sleep hypnogagic hallucinations of a rather mild sort. This can happen with very little of the breathing exercise and is not similar to severe oxygen deprivation.

      This is how my theta sleep mutual dreaming happens:

      1. I have head tingling.

      2. I think a thought, and possibly I direct it towards my wife, who is sleeping next to me. They are chosen by me, during the dream, and are not typical topics of dreams for either of us.

      3. Later on, after she wakes up, she reports experiencing something unusually similar to the thought I had during the exploding head syndrome feeling, at about the same time of the night (as best as that can be figured). It is not exactly the same though. She does not get the head tingling.
      Last edited by onemorehere; 01-11-2016 at 10:44 PM.

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      Can you convince your wife or with whom you are training your mutual dreaming to write dream journal? It would provide at least some proof whether there is shared dreaming or not. Also keep in mind that it doesn't need to be done in the same time frame.

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      Just to be clear:

      Delta sleep generally occurs during stage 2 NREM, early in your sleep cycle; it is called "delta" because of the long slow brain waves generated. Delta is not the stage when REM occurs.

      Theta occurs at the beginning of the sleep cycle, just before delta; theta is also a time of slow brain waves, with no REM present... also, as it is a period of very deep sleep, pre-sleep hypnagogia like exploding head syndrome or a tingling head will already be past (because you are asleep). Where you probably were during what you're calling theta was on the fence between wake and sleep, when a lot of interesting things can happen, but theta waves have not yet begun to form.

      REM first occurs after about 90 minutes of sleep, with brain waves more like waking-life, and very different from delta or theta. Again, there really is no REM during delta or theta wave stages.

      In truth I don't think this clarification has anything to do with your OP, so you can ignore the interruption if you feel like it, but I figured you might be interested in the info anyway.
      Last edited by Sageous; 01-18-2016 at 01:05 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Psionik View Post
      Can you convince your wife or with whom you are training your mutual dreaming to write dream journal? It would provide at least some proof whether there is shared dreaming or not. Also keep in mind that it doesn't need to be done in the same time frame.
      Thank you. I think a dream journal may be a good thing to convince my kids that what they are experiencing is for real and not just the tooth fairy, etc. My kids are too young, but I should get them to do it when they are older. My wife could do it now, though. I will talk to her about it.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      but I figured you might be interested in the info anyway.
      Yes, thank you. Perhaps I am mistaken. In that case I should have titled my post "Two different kinds of mutual dreaming." Here is how I based my identification of my exploding head syndrome tingle as theta. Perhaps you can explain whether I am off base with this or not. Comments in () agree with your reasoning. The rest do not.

      1. I listened to theta binaurals in the past, and I felt pressure in a certain place in my forehead. It is very similar to the pressure I feel after crying. It is somewhat similar to a feeling I get after extended oxygen deficit due to a long period of intense exercise. (I should note that I cannot sleep well after listening to theta binaurals, I assume for the same reason you suggest.)

      2. I induced a similar pressure by doing breathing exercises. So it must cause theta waves, right?

      3. During hypnagogia (which I assume is largely delta or beta), I did breathing exercises.

      4. I felt an exploding head syndrome style tingle. (oh, but then I went to sleep right afterwards--so perhaps that is proof that it wasn't theta, as you explained?)

      5. I assume that similar exploding head syndrome style tingles that I get during dreams are also theta. I never get them when awake. They also tend to start in the same place as my theta binaural induced pressure.

      6. Lastly, the refreshed feeling I get after exploding head syndrome style tingles is similar to the feeling I get after getting head pressure from crying or anger, and then getting over the crying or anger.
      Last edited by onemorehere; 01-18-2016 at 04:27 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by onemorehere View Post
      1. I listened to theta binaurals in the past, and I felt pressure in a certain place in my forehead. It is very similar to the pressure I feel after crying. It is somewhat similar to a feeling I get after extended oxygen deficit due to a long period of intense exercise. (I should note that I cannot sleep well after listening to theta binaurals, I assume for the same reason you suggest.)
      Keep in mind that binaural beat recordings are not brainwaves, and, even if they may encourage theta activity (which I personally doubt), they are not theta activity in and of themselves. So physical sensations they might generate could (and, to me, likely do) have nothing to do with actual theta sleep.

      Also, sound waves do not equal brain waves, so the sensations you experienced might have had more to do with the effects of sound waves (or even your own expectations), and nothing to do with the brainwaves produced during stage 1 sleep. Stage 1 (theta) sleep requires that you, well, be asleep, and the things you describe are happening while you are either still awake or on the edge of sleep (and still removed from the deeper sleep that generates theta waves).

      2. I induced a similar pressure by doing breathing exercises. So it must cause theta waves, right?
      I don't think so, per my response to #1.

      3. During hypnagogia (which I assume is largely delta or beta), I did breathing exercises.
      I'm not sure, because you are in a transitional state, but I would bet that brainwaves produced during hypnagogia are likely alpha or beta... just a hunch; I could be wrong about that.... though I am pretty sure that even the best of sleep yogis would have trouble doing breathing exercises during delta sleep.

      4. I felt an exploding head syndrome style tingle. (oh, but then I went to sleep right afterwards--so perhaps that is proof that it wasn't theta, as you explained?)
      Yup.

      5. I assume that similar exploding head syndrome style tingles that I get during dreams are also theta. I never get them when awake. They also tend to start in the same place as my theta binaural induced pressure.
      Again, it might be a good idea to consider separating hypnagogia like exploding head syndrome from theta stage sleep; they are very likely unrelated.

      6. Lastly, the refreshed feeling I get after exploding head syndrome style tingles is similar to the feeling I get after getting head pressure from crying or anger, and then getting over the crying or anger.
      Okay, but this might not have anything to do with theta sleep at all; conflating these things with first stage NREM might lead you to confusion later, especially if/when you actually lucidly experience theta or delta sleep.

      You might consider setting all this aside for a time, and focus on "Two different kinds of mutual dreaming," without mention of theta or delta... it's an interesting subject all by itself, after all!

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