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    Thread: How to SD?

    1. #51
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      There is also language barrier I experience, I have problems to express myself clearly... I think. It is hard enough to explain those states of consciousness in mother language

      To explain my experiences better- I found, that if I'm in emotional balance- it isn't blockage of emotions, it is their dissolving, nullification, understanding... it is many things but not suppression... I found myself to be more sensitive to outside inputs but at the same time relaxed, unattached, analytical... It certainly functions in real life. I can feel into feelings of others, into situations and analyze them unattached... therefore adding as little of my own content as possible. Lucid dreams are very sensitive as I said. But in OBE to astral dimension it is much worse. Imagination can ruin whole experience and let it slip into lucid dream. I trained OBE for about 33 years now. I explored what was needed to stabilize them, to have them as clean as possible. And, there is something coming to my mind now -> One can't hear whispers in loud polyphonic orchestra, isn't it so? If I have to receive information from outside of my mind, then I want as low noise of receiver as possible.

      My way is to understand my fears and dissolve them. When I was about 6-8 years I feared darkness. It was oppressive and I didn't like that. But one day I said myself that enough is enough. I needed to get rid of illogical feelings. I wanted to be very logical at that times(and no there was no StarTrek available in my country so I didn't have any Spock idol ) What I did was, I went to places where I felt the largest fear with lamp. I extinguished light and waited in darkness. I felt into it. When I thought that something scary is going to get me, I lighted the lamp. Of course, no snakes, no ghosts, no skulls or skeletons(those things I feared most), nothing was there, so I extinguished the light again and waited... and I did this for some time on different places. The fear parted myself this way. Now, when I'm in lower astral it could be quite scary, but I'm there guarding my emotions by observation and dissolution, navigating through darkness through seemingly dangerous surrounding which I find only interesting if I find something new. It wasn't always this way. But I needed to solve problem and this was similar problem as in real life fears. Now fear is negative emotion, but I found that also positive ones could be a hindrance of understanding. So I did the similar thing as with fear with other emotions. Now, I know myself enough, I know my emotions and I learned how to have them quiet, in balance. The life is much more quiet his way. Things come and go. Nothing is there for forever. "While I'm standing still, I prefer the stillness here... "- that is why I like OBE... mainly to higher dimensions. The stillness, the quiet existence. Where mild feelings substitute thoughts... where applied will can be only very fine, so fine, that it can be compared to disinterests in real life and yet it causes large disturbances there.

      I'm not well versed in philosophy, so stoicism or I'm not sure what other thing you found in me is not what I followed. I followed only my observations and experiences. I tried to test things other people experienced... but I'm unable to use emotions well in OBE, since they destabilize the experience every time.
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    2. #52
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      Ok, it sounds like you're doing it right then! Stoicism is just a way to get emotions under control, but not rigidly, and not by forcing things. It's facing your fears and learning that most of them are just illusions. It's also learning that some things are entirely beyond our control, like the weather or things other people do, and so there's no reason to let these thing upset you. It also is about thinking realistically about your own future death realizing it is inevitable and that fearing it or trying to avoid it is pointless - so it's much better to fully accept the fact of death and not get frightened when the possibility of death arises. It's making peace with the inevitable fact of death. This is a factor in many, if not all ancient practical philosophies and religions, except for those built on the fear of death or the worship of it. I suppose I should say it's the basis of a lot of spiritual beliefs, maybe not religions.

      Honestly, it sounds like what you do is very similar to Stoicism. So I'll stop pestering you now!

    3. #53
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      Todays dreams.
      1. I found myself flying alongside to railroad- I don't know where I started, why I flew nor where I was wanting to get, I just flew forward for a few minutes till dream ended.
      2. I was in a train. It looked antiquated and luxurious... wooden insides, red seats, golden ornaments. Three more people were with me, I think all of them were women, but I didn't pay too much attention to them. We were trying to find a place where we could sit down. When we found it a conductor come by, a woman... she controlled our tickets and went away.

    4. #54
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      This thread is fascinating. I wish I could participate, but my dreamlife is utter crap right now.

      So, there's quite an overlap between the dream world and the astrals?

      I keep hearing Ryan Cropper talk about the "lower astrals" and how you experience thoughtforms and how it would be easy for a beginner to mistake them for real things. E.g. Monsters in your mind coming to life in front of you. I've been trying to fit that into my picture of how this stuff works. Is it basically describing that overlap into your dreamworld if you let your mind get carried away?

    5. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      This thread is fascinating. I wish I could participate, but my dreamlife is utter crap right now.

      So, there's quite an overlap between the dream world and the astrals?

      I keep hearing Ryan Cropper talk about the "lower astrals" and how you experience thoughtforms and how it would be easy for a beginner to mistake them for real things. E.g. Monsters in your mind coming to life in front of you. I've been trying to fit that into my picture of how this stuff works. Is it basically describing that overlap into your dreamworld if you let your mind get carried away?
      Overlap... it depends of look on it. I trained OBE for long, lucid dreams weren't interesting for me so I did have them only sparsely. I learned from my experiences how to stabilize OBE. And things I do for stabilization functions also for LDs. I found that relatively fast, because I did the same instinctively in LDs.
      Astral is diametrically different from dream. In dream the level of consciousness is lower than in waking life. In lucid dream the level of consciousness is similar to waking life. In astral dimension the lucidity is stronger than in waking life.
      In dream I can use imagination. But I found that it is better not to imagine too much, to use imagination sparingly. The lucid dream is more stable then. In astral it is better to not imagine things at all. Imagination, applying of strong enough will, strong enough emotions tend to change surrounding. They looks less real, the consciousness goes weaker... It may easily end in lucid dream. On other side, I had a few cases where I transferred from lucid dream to astral - it is like waking up. The surroundings changes drastically. Consciousness explodes... But I can't do it at will really. It always happened accidentally. It needs great deal of concentration...

      Dream characters are not present in astral, at least not classical ones. There are two types of characters I find in astral. One of them are what I call dream zombies. Normal looking humans but they are unaware... doing silly repetitive or non repetitive things, or just standing, sitting or sleeping... without movement- like statues. They sometimes start to cry, run away or don't interact if I try to interact with them. Second type of characters are active- I feel them like individuals... In lower astral they are more demonic like, in mid and higher astral they look most often normal or even angelic. I never met being in higher dimension than astral. I'm sure, for other people it may look different. These are usually afraid of me. I'm not sure why. Visible aura acts like passive weapon. It is as if my presence presents danger to them. Mainly to demonic ones, but normal looking and angelic are afraid quite often too.
      Thought forms- I'm not exactly sure whether I materialize things from subconsciousness. I keep mind without imagination. Certainly I didn't see things which could come from my conscious mind. I observe surrounding which looks independent from me. But imagination could probably lead to materialization of things. I experienced that in dreams and lucid dreams.

      I have tested this idea:
      Dream- I'm playing in theater and be unaware of that.
      Lucid dream- I'm aware of playing in theater.
      OBE- I'm seeing outside of sceneries, into reality outside of physical reality.
      - it is functional explanation for me. The problem lies in last point- I certainly see into some kind of reality, at least more real than lucid dream and even physical world. But I can't test reliably whether OBE is real thing by comparing it to physical reality. I try to test it by finding connections with physical reality, but since astral dimension has to be 5D space it is possible it is not probable that I will be ever successful- Time dimension would mean that I see into parallel dimension made by different decisions... I really don't know yet. Shared experiences could prove something... But would it be telepathy? Precognition? Or existence in other reality?
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    6. #56
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      Thanks for your reply Psionik, that helps a lot.

    7. #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      This thread is fascinating. I wish I could participate, but my dreamlife is utter crap right now.

      So, there's quite an overlap between the dream world and the astrals?

      I keep hearing Ryan Cropper talk about the "lower astrals" and how you experience thoughtforms and how it would be easy for a beginner to mistake them for real things. E.g. Monsters in your mind coming to life in front of you. I've been trying to fit that into my picture of how this stuff works. Is it basically describing that overlap into your dreamworld if you let your mind get carried away?
      For me there is complete overlap. It is not clear to me where the dream realm inside my head and astral is divided. It is like the door to the astral is by going deeper inside your mind until you reach the center and then continue to break through into something beyond your own mind. I have only entered real amazing astral stuff while in a dream state. One may question how I can be sure it is not just a dream and I can not give a good answer. First it has physical laws that do not exist in normal dreams such as the cities having true gravity. To fly takes effort there that can exhaust me in moments. The people living there basically do not fly much. The entities are way different than DCs in a way I can not express well. It is very clear to me when an entity is around compared to a DC. They have 'presents' that is almost detectable on some 6th sense level that again I can not describe well. the list goes on, but others may discount my experiences as complex self delusions based around a persistent dream world of my own creation. I have no doubt personally that it is not that. My first exploration of astral realms started when I could calmly observe the dream and erase the scene so that I could see beyond the visuals into the background construct of the dream. The first time I did this was by focusing on the sky and removing the images until there was a patch of white instead of dream. I got to where I could turn around and not create any scene at all. I could see the edges of the last scene and then white. As soon as I started exploring the dream with no imagery created by me I became aware of a sense that some thing was there with me observing me. After many years and honestly a lot of frightening events some of these things actually started to communicate with me and instruct me in how to get to the astral realms. I can not honestly convey much of what I was taught as it is so foreign to the world it makes little sense to me outside of when I am there. For instance, I have had long conversations sitting around fully lucid and aware with entities that lasted about as long as joining some one for lunch. In the experience the conversation made complete sense and they would answer my deep questions and it would all make sense. I would be sure that I understood everything in a way that was real and was sure it would be clear when I woke up. Upon awaking I would know I had spent perhaps a half hour having a deep conversation with astral entities and that I learn a huge amount. However, the details of what I learned and what was said would not translate to waking life and I could no grasp any of it at all.
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    8. #58
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      Today's dream
      I was flying an old four engine plane over large city. It was as if I made aerial photography but its photographic instruments were automatic. I only flew slowly, making circles over parts of that city. After some time of doing this boring task , I saw something like airstrip on the city, so I decided to land. As I closed the distance to airstrip, it was shorter and shorter. I set flaps at max ... and at one point I was below the stall speed... falling... but then airplane transformed its wings, engines could rotate to helicopter position which was strange because I saw them rotate directly through wing structure. Fire and clouds of fumes erupted from one of left engines as they used more power to level plane which was tilted to the left. Airplane was again somewhat responsible to my input. Airstrip transformed into a busy street. I was too close to ground... I couldn't stop... I crash landed to the street smashing left wing- even after transformation it wasn't made for helicopter like flight. But rest of plane was OK. I went out and away, leaving the plane.
      I started to walk trying to figure out where I'm. Everything was unfamiliar. I found familiar building- technical laboratories. I remembered, that I have to look about progress on machine I got them to build- they didn't started yet. When I went away to find my workplace, I found my recumbent bike without paint on it. Even in reality I don't have it painted, because I wanted to test all the welded joints first. I'm not very experienced welder. So I rode on it... but I didn't know where to go. The city was unfamiliar. I found myself to ride a few times thorough the same crossroads on straight road and I didn't find, that I am dreaming! I woke up shortly after that.
      Last edited by Psionik; 02-03-2018 at 10:53 AM.

    9. #59
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      Oh wow that helps a lot too sivason, thank you!

      It's all starting to make some real sense

      I'm writing a fantasy book at the moment, astral projection is a big part of it, so I want the best picture of the astrals as possible. Stupid to write it before actually experiencing it. But f**k it I'll write another book after I do, then compare xD I'm only loosely basing it on real AP anyways

    10. #60
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      ^^ Don't be surprised, Slash, if you discover that what you're writing now is remarkably similar to what you experience after you've mastered AP.

      It could be that right now you're simply not remembering experiences that you've been having all your life, but failed to consciously file away (or pay enough attention to in the first place), and your writer's imagination -- which can have the benefit of access to everything you've ever done -- is drawing upon those experiences. So much of what we do is less something new than it is an attachment of our awareness to something we've been doing all our lives... after all, isn't LD'ing little more (initially, anyway) than witnessing the stuff our minds do every night?

      ... this might be a bunch of nonsense, but it might be something to think about, anyway.. good luck with your book!
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      Aw thanks man

      I've actually thought about that before. Well, almost.
      e.g. I want to be able to read the akashic records. But I feel very strongly that I am already very familiar with the akashic records. I couldn't word it if I tried, but I'm sure a lot of my experience is made up of information from the akash.

      Now that I think about it, Astral Projection and Travel must be similar, it must have made up a fair deal of my night-time experiences... Thanks for that! Also helps!


      Also, Psionik, you should start a thread of your own. It would be cool to see a place for people to join in with you, neatly in a single thread.
      Last edited by slash112; 02-03-2018 at 06:34 PM.
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      Imho Take lots of drugs

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      Or I should stop to write these not interesting dreams... Interesting ones I write into DJ, but these...

    14. #64
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      When it comes to shared dreaming, I'm pretty sure all dreams are important to note.

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      That may be true.
      But I feel, that we are exercising a probability here- probability of having similar dreams without actually having shared dreams.

      In today's dream I built an wind power generator on the Mars. It didn't work.
      That is because I saw a video yesterday, about feasibility of such machine on YouTube by Scott Manley, and since martian atmosphere is practically vacuum, I used data of density and windspeed... I calculated, that only strongest winds observed would generate enough power to use wind power generator... but it simply isn't worth the effort and money. I also found a scientific paper which confirmed my calculations... but strange thing is that in that paper they think, that it is feasible, even if it would work only sometimes (when wind is close to max speeds).
      Last edited by Psionik; 02-04-2018 at 11:53 AM.
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      On the ‘astral’ topic....I think that all imagination has a significant astral component. We’re usually representing physical things with it, but the way it works is largely unphysical. He may diasagree, but I’m guessing that what Sivason calls astral is a personal imaginative representation of astral realities, but he’s not perceiving it exactly as it really is, he’s interpreting it. This relates to what Sageous was saying, that we experience this stuff already, but have a hard time representing it to ourselves in a way that we can remember or make any sense of. This is I’m pretty sure a primary reason I’ve mostly stopped dreaming, I don’t know what to do with it.
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      On the ‘astral’ topic....I think that all imagination has a significant astral component. We’re usually representing physical things with it, but the way it works is largely unphysical. He may diasagree, but I’m guessing that what Sivason calls astral is a personal imaginative representation of astral realities, but he’s not perceiving it exactly as it really is, he’s interpreting it. This relates to what Sageous was saying, that we experience this stuff already, but have a hard time representing it to ourselves in a way that we can remember or make any sense of. This is I’m pretty sure a primary reason I’ve mostly stopped dreaming, I don’t know what to do with it.
      Go WILD . Direct imagination route can take you into LD even if you can't remember common dreams.

      In today's dream I played with something what looked like black balloons full of stars. There was no ground there, I was floating in grayish space.
      Last edited by Psionik; 02-05-2018 at 01:15 PM.

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      In today's dream I was at work, I was trying to find information about lithium disilicate but for some reason, I was constantly looking for lithium disulfide. Chaotic.

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      Hey. Ive been reading this thread to see where it goes. Looks like your writing most of the dreams psoink but maybe Shadow pms you or will write it when hes not busy. Either way i think its cool that your experimenting with this. I kind of wanna try as well but it feels like this is more of a two person experiment thing. Im also curious to see how it would be to attempt group SD again.
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    20. #70
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      I just tried that first night, which didn’t connect, then stopped. For me, if it was gong to happen, it could have happened then. This experiment has worked for me before on this site in private messages, but it fails at least as often. A limitation of course is when I post first I can’t tell if the other person is lying, but I assume they’re not.
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    21. #71
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      what Sivason calls astral is a personal imaginative representation of astral realities, but he’s not perceiving it exactly as it really is, he’s interpreting it.
      This is it exactly! Dead on. Your brain creates images to attempt and make order out of things so very foreign. Say there is a place of meeting and it has spots for sitting and a surface for holding food or what ever. If multiple people could all be projecting there they would all be seeing different things. Most of them would agree that there were either benches, stools, chairs or something intended for sitting, and that there was either a table, countertop, flat stone or some place where the food was set. They also each may see the food as the food of there own country/world.
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      In first dream I unsuccessfully tried to create ceramic tapes- that is result of real time problems in work.
      In second dream I was in big old wooden house. Half of people were Vulcans (as from startrek) They had longer ears and they were clothed in ancient looking fur like clothes. They had more then 2 times longer ears. They were sitting by a long table and they felt very cold, logical... and very, very polite. Then a group of actors started to play something of Shakespeare. Vulcans started to lose their composure, they wanted actors to stop illogical play. Actors didn't react on that. And then funny ting happened. Vulcans ears started to bend down, till they hanged by sides of their heads. Their ears had a fur or hair from the side which was originally pressed to their heads. Now, all the Vulcans were looking very miserably.
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I just tried that first night, which didn’t connect, then stopped. For me, if it was gong to happen, it could have happened then. This experiment has worked for me before on this site in private messages, but it fails at least as often. A limitation of course is when I post first I can’t tell if the other person is lying, but I assume they’re not.
      Oh, well at least you managed to connect before despite how many times you failed. But it would be interesting if you could SD as much as you wanted to. Thinking about how you said it would have happened if it was going to work, do you mean your other attempts were successful or you somewhat connected on first try? True, I did the same when experimenting SD. It would be disappointing to be lied to but yeah,some trust is important too.

      Their ears had a fur or hair from the side which was originally pressed to their heads. Now, all the Vulcans were looking very miserably.
      XD Aw poor vulcans. They do sound cute with those floppy ears though. Also, your dream reminds me of something I was thinking about lately. Like how someone told me a joke and i was thinking about it from a logical point of view, so hearing them I was like "where did this come from?" And I didnt know if to laugh or not but I found it funny afterwards. Im thinking its because as we get older our perspective and interests changes somewhat. Do you find yourself interested in the logical more as well psoink? Well your a scientist so I guess you do. : )

      This is it exactly! Dead on. Your brain creates images to attempt and make order out of things so very foreign. Say there is a place of meeting and it has spots for sitting and a surface for holding food or what ever. If multiple people could all be projecting there they would all be seeing different things. Most of them would agree that there were either benches, stools, chairs or something intended for sitting, and that there was either a table, countertop, flat stone or some place where the food was set. They also each may see the food as the food of there own country/world.
      That makes sense but if it was a object that two people knew would they see the same thing? Also, do you think info about an object could be shared?
      Last edited by DawnEye11; 02-08-2018 at 04:55 AM.
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    24. #74
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      First dream was semilucid. I got there while I was speaking my 6 year old daughter to sleep, she was scared to go sleep yesterday.- I firstly told her a story about three little pigs and then I told her to imagine small sheep- I had my eyes closed and I was imagining it too. I held her hand and I described her the sheep as I saw it emerge slowly in front of my eyes. She added her thoughts about it. Somehow I slipped at this into semilucid dream. I was on small grassy hill and there was a sheep in front of me. I saw that I'm in dream so I arose up to air and flew away. I only remember various aerial sceneries as I did circles around, observing ground from air.

      In second dream I was on scientific conference. My boss was there as moderator of lectures. Somehow one man had come there and started to speak out some religionistic drivel, totally disconnected from reality. When people discussed their view of problematic that man started to be violent and a few other came to him with weapons. I got all of them but one with some kind of sniper weapon... It looked strange, I can't describe it well. It didn't have any gun barrel. It was white cyllinder with about 5cm in diameter, covered with a few displays, LED diodes and small push buttons. It had no recoil. It made no sound while "shoting". I had no ammo for last man. There was second similar weapon so I tried to use it. But that second weapon only made a loud clicking sounds. Last man turned to me, and his weapon fired at me. It wasn't able to do any harm to me.The dream as I was trying to get him out, and he tried to get rid of me...

      I had third dream, but I can't remember it now... something about clocks, space and spirit... I really can't remember.
      Last edited by Psionik; 02-08-2018 at 02:22 PM.

    25. #75
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      delete
      Last edited by Psionik; 02-09-2018 at 10:14 AM.

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