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    Thread: How to SD?

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      How to SD?

      I'm seeking information on how to SD. By SD, I don't mean having a dream very similar to what another dreamer experienced. I want to know how multiple dreamers can share the same dreamspace in real time. Assuming both dreamers are already skilled with lucidity and control, what would the dreamers need to do in order to experience true SD?

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      That has been discussed here many times. It is unclear if this is even a possibility. None of us have had clearly shared dreams like you are talking about. Some have had experience that may be hard to explain, or that give hope for this.
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      A few people here are confident to have shared dreams or shared astral projections.

      I have no solid enough proof they are possible- I try that for years.

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      I cannot confirm any personal experiences of shared dreaming and I cannot confirm how it is done. However, I think it would be fun to take a crack at hypothesizing how it might scientifically work.

      Our dreams are based on the state of our perception during the time the dream takes place.

      At a given moment, it is possible for our state of perception of that moment to become based on another person's state of perception of that moment. This is known as "perspective-taking."

      If two people's states of perception of each other at a given moment become each other's states of perception of that given moment, they share the same state of perception of each other at that given moment, which becomes the basis of a shared dream.

      I just learned about "perspective taking" from looking it up. I don't know much about it, but it on the surface it seems like legitimate phenomenon. If it is legitimate, it seems to me that the success of shared dreaming is based on the timing, accuracy, and mutuality of the dreamers' perspective taking of each other up to the time of their dreams.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Psionik View Post
      A few people here are confident to have shared dreams or shared astral projections.

      I have no solid enough proof they are possible- I try that for years.
      I'd like to know what those few people have to say on this topic.

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      Here is at least one shared dreaming tutorial that has been created here on Dreamviews. http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-tutorial.html

      What is mentally possible while awake is possible while dreaming. While two people are awake, it is possible for them to mentally share a common situation involving each other. Therefore, while dreaming it must be possible for two people to share a common situation involving each other.

      I notice various shared dreaming tutorials advise the two people to get in mental agreement with each other in some way. For example, I have seen more than one shared dreaming tutorial advise the two people, while awake, to agree to meet each other somewhere when they are dreaming.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamzilla View Post
      I'd like to know what those few people have to say on this topic.
      It would be nice to hear from them, if only because they tend to be interesting people. But, unfortunately, you will likely find them not directly answering your OP. Generally, I've found, folks who say they have DS'd usually offer as proof things like "Because I said so," or "because I was there," or perhaps "Because my friend remembers dreaming things that ere just like the stuff I dreamed," and offer as technique little more than things like "Both of you get lucid and you just do it," or "I really don't know how it works or how to do it; it just happens." In the context of their posts, and perhaps their position of being unable to explain a transcendental phenomenon that is happening to them, I really have no problem with all that and truly hope that what they're saying is true (more in a sec), but in the context of this thread's request, you very likely wouldn't get much technical help from them.

      That said, I also truly hope that someone comes on board and proves me wrong!

      My main problem with SD'ing is not so much how to do it, but how it can occur at all. Here are three issues that I feel must be resolved before a SD can occur:

      * There needs to be some physical activity or vehicle that allows two minds to link up in their dreams (brainwaves are simply not enough, in my opinion).

      * There needs to be a way to find each other among the billions of other dreaming minds in this world.

      * Above all there needs to be a way to communicate, to form an image in your partner's mind that she can understand, once you're there.

      I'm not saying that any of these things are impossible, and I sincerely hope that they are possible, because if SD'ing is possible, it would indicate that a whole new chapter would need to be written in the physics books, and that is very exciting!

      Finally, and in full disclosure, I regularly experience an odd phenomenon that I call finding myself in other people's dreams, which could be interpreted as a sort of inadvertent SD'ing. It's not exactly what we're talking about here, but you might find it interesting; if you are curious, here is a link to a very old thread I once started about it (feel free to necro!).


      Also:

      Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
      I cannot confirm any personal experiences of shared dreaming and I cannot confirm how it is done. However, I think it would be fun to take a crack at hypothesizing how it might scientifically work.

      Our dreams are based on the state of our perception during the time the dream takes place.

      At a given moment, it is possible for our state of perception of that moment to become based on another person's state of perception of that moment. This is known as "perspective-taking."

      If two people's states of perception of each other at a given moment become each other's states of perception of that given moment, they share the same state of perception of each other at that given moment, which becomes the basis of a shared dream.

      I just learned about "perspective taking" from looking it up. I don't know much about it, but it on the surface it seems like legitimate phenomenon. If it is legitimate, it seems to me that the success of shared dreaming is based on the timing, accuracy, and mutuality of the dreamers' perspective taking of each other up to the time of their dreams.
      Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
      What is mentally possible while awake is possible while dreaming. While two people are awake, it is possible for them to mentally share a common situation involving each other. Therefore, while dreaming it must be possible for two people to share a common situation involving each other.

      I notice various shared dreaming tutorials advise the two people to get in mental agreement with each other in some way.
      But are those ways that actual SD'ing (in my opinion, showing up in someone else's dream, and both you and the other dreamer understand what is occurring) can occur, or are they explanations for how two people can have remarkably similar dreams?

      What you describe, to me, is what dreamers often mistake as a shared dream, but not the actual presence of two consciousnesses in one dream. Yes, two people who are very close and have very similar life experiences might tend to dream of the same things, but is that actually SD'ing?

      Finally:

      For example, I have seen more than one shared dreaming tutorial advise the two people, while awake, to agree to meet each other somewhere when they are dreaming.
      This is a very good idea, but doesn't it imply that both SDer's have already mastered whatever techniques are necessary to resolve all the issues I noted far above?
      Last edited by Sageous; 01-15-2018 at 07:14 PM.
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      They are explanations for how two people can have remarkably similar dreams. I think this is the closest one can get to having a shared dream as you describe. I'm not sure if it is possible for there to be two consciousness's in one dream.
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      I once participated in an informal experiment to see if the other dreamers and I could do this. We did not manage to share any dreams—nothing that was even disputably a shared dream, much less indisputably— but a few times, there were similarities between our dream content that seemed odd enough to call a coincidence—or other interesting connections. For instance, I had a dream where I was in Ukraine—something that had never happened before, in any of the previous 4,438 dreams in my journal. And then I found out later—only after the dream— that one of the people I was trying to share dreams with was living in Ukraine. That’s a little hard to explain—but it’s not going to convince any skeptics, either.

      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      That has been discussed here many times. It is unclear if this is even a possibility. None of us have had clearly shared dreams like you are talking about. Some have had experience that may be hard to explain, or that give hope for this.
      So yeah - basically this.

      But if sharing dreams is possible, I’d say you’d have a much better chance of doing it with someone you’re close to—and, possibly, having a better motivation to try it than just being curious.

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      I think a perfectly shared dream would be nearly impossible - a dream scene isn't a place, it is more of a projection, and two different people won't project exactly the same thing.

      Telepathy in dreams I absolutely believe in. But for me it would tend to be harder to do with someone I'm close to, because there generally wouldn't be enough meaningful and previously unshared thought content to act as the driving force behind the experience, or a clear way to separate it from other thoughts and memories.

      The lack of a plausible mechanism is a problem. It doesn't cause me to doubt my experiences, because I know that the physics models that we use to define our 'plausible mechanisms' do not capture all of reality. For myself, the lack of a plausible mechanism is a problem mostly because if I had some kind of reasonable model, the experiences would be less confused. Increasingly, a lot of the content in such dreams is very abstract and strange, like I'm trying to interpret something that I'm not understanding at all well.

      I think that the 'in other people's dreams' experience of Sageous is the same thing I'm talking about, but I think those aren't their dreams, those are their mental spaces, so to speak, and they're not necessarily even asleep.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamzilla View Post
      I'd like to know what those few people have to say on this topic.
      Those are believers. I don't have experience which would suggest reality of dream sharing.
      One of them is "Man of Shred".

      Now, what "Shadow of wind" suggest is more real explanation. But it is one which can explain everything, even shared dream as imagination. I may be in the shared dream and not know it- since persons I meet there may look completely different, the place may look completely different, actions may be completely different... all because it is filtered through my subconscious mind. And their the same. Even approach I try- to be as observer without active thinking, with as small interference as possible may be flawed. Or maybe it would better to say insufficient.
      It may be even complete imagination. One can have supposedly shared dreams, but when it is with someone you know and speak about your dreams, then there is possibility to initiate similar types of dreams without sharing them. High similarity may be the result of collective superconsciousness or limited telepathy(if those things exist?)
      I don't exactly like it, because it goes against what I believe from my experiences. My OBEs are victim as well if this is true. But it is possibility I need to think about all the time.
      Last edited by Psionik; 01-17-2018 at 01:30 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Psionik View Post
      Those are believers... One of them is "Man of Shred".
      There's also Waking Nomad and Raven Knight, though I don't know if either of them still posts here. Waking Nomad changed his name some time ago, and I don't remember what it is now.

      EDIT ok, Waking Nomad's new screen name is Baron Samedi - he created the tutorial linked by Dolphin above. Guess my whole post is pretty irrelevant now. D'oh!
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 01-17-2018 at 05:08 PM.
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      Here’s an example of what I call dream telepathy. A few years ago I read a short story that begins with an image of an owl picking up a mouse, which bites its talon. The story was old, but I hadn’t read it before. That night, in place of my usual lucid dream there’s just a lucid silence. The next day, my sister, who I didn’t grow up with and whom I talk to only once or twice a year, e-mails me about a dream she had that night which begins with her picking up a mouse which bites her on the finger. That’s followed by other content which meant nothing to her, but which provided an insight to me in relation to a metaphysical question I’d thought of the previous day, and was easier for her to put into words because her chemistry vocabulary was different than mine. There was also a detail in my otherwise silent dream that connected to hers, but I’ve since forgotten it.

      You may regard this as a random coincidence, but considering the mouse image, the lack of communication and shared external events, and that I had many other similar experiences for several years, I don’t find that explanation very plausible. It is not a ‘shared dream’ of the Waking Nomad variety, but I think this type of connection was present in those other people’s imaginings. I also had a couple of experiences in relation to him.

      Self-doubt is a big damper on psychic experience. If you’re objectively honest and critical, it makes such experience a lot more difficult, because it prevents imagination from moving freely. Irrational people who don’t question themselves tend to have more such experiences as a consequence. Their interpretations may be largely delusional, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing there at all.
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      WTF, This is DV. This is the only forum where anybody has posted legit shared dreams. Read these: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-jour...-you-moon.html

      Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - DreamAs1 - Dream Journals

      My SD tutorial: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...hen-lucid.html

      Other tutorial: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-tutorial.html

      We have pages and pages of shared dreams! Even from people not intending to share dreams that night. Even if say hypothetically police interview multiple witnesses to a robbery, if every account is the exact same in wording and detail the police will know it's a setup. Every perspective is different.
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      Where did all of this lead? The forum is almost totally dead now. Why?

      In my perception, full on Shared Dreams, as with other lucid dream experiences like Dream Police, tended to be raw, unfiltered, and not very nuanced in their interpretation. Often shared dreaming prowess, or the appearance of it, also seemed to be accompanied by lack of tolerance for people with other temperaments and perspectives. But of course intolerance comes in a lot of different forms, and its virtually impossible to have legitimate disagreements on any topic of substance without experiencing a bit of that.

      I find it a bit sad that we didn't manage to come together better as a community. People that to me should know better still doubt basic things like whether anything like shared dreaming is possible. Other people don't seem to have patience or openness to anything other people understand that's a bit different from where they're coming from. Of course I have my own form of that also. Not necessarily avoidable, and undoubtedly for the best in some ways, for a while, but still disappointing.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Man of Shred View Post
      WTF, This is DV. This is the only forum where anybody has posted legit shared dreams. Read these: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-jour...-you-moon.html

      Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - DreamAs1 - Dream Journals

      My SD tutorial: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...hen-lucid.html

      Other tutorial: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-tutorial.html

      We have pages and pages of shared dreams! Even from people not intending to share dreams that night. Even if say hypothetically police interview multiple witnesses to a robbery, if every account is the exact same in wording and detail the police will know it's a setup. Every perspective is different.
      Maybe you are gifted, maybe a few people here are gifted with shared dreams. I don't have anything other then your words. I mean no disrespect nor I try to accuse you of anything.
      I'm trying to do it for years and yet, I have no positive results. I want to believe into this, but I need first some hard evidence, repeatable experience... it may not be 100% exact, but let it be at least similar, reports of people I meet in LD have to be comparable... at least a little.

      Today I found my wife in my dream and she has constantly changing her face appearance- she remembers no dream... in fact she told me that she almost never dreams about me. That her dreams are sparse. Two days ago I projected to my friend and I suggested her to mail me about the dream meeting- I received no mail. This goes on and on.

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      For the most part the people I've shared dreams with (more along the lines of dream telepathy) were not people I know IWL, but I just discovered by reading dream journals in here. Several times I found weird coincidences that matched dreams I had had the night before, and I hadn't yet posted mine. So if you want to experience it, I would suggest reading a lot of dream journals here on DV - chances are you've experienced it many times and just don't know it. You need to cast a wider net - asking one person about their dreams is too small of a sample size.

      Once though when I was a teenager I rode my bike to my friend's house and was excited to tell him the dream I had had, where we killed death. When I got there he was standing in the driveway talking to a friend of his - telling him about the dream he had had the night before where me and him killed death. His was very different from mine - his took place in a bare stone tower on a spiral staircase and death was the classic Grim Reaper type, whereas mine took place on a children's playground and death was a baby in a stroller with an adult-sized skull for a head, who would throw his "death rattle" (clever play on words) and whoever it hit would die instantly. People were looking into the stroller and remarking on how cute the baby was (??!) and when it saw me it threw the rattle at me, but I jumped up onto a slide, which deflected the rattle (which tracked me like a heatseeking missile) enough that I could then whip off my jacket and use it as a big sling to catch and re-direct the rattle without stopping it's forward momentum, right back at Baby Death. When it hit him he imploded and disappeared. And I knew that Death was gone for the time being, but eventually would return, or rather be replaced by the next one.

      His was much more of a mythological action-movie style dream - there was a running sword fight on the staircase ending in one of us (I think it was me) stabbing and killing Death.

      So I suspect that we frequently share dreams - but that because people don't tend to talk much about dreams in modern society, or even to remember or think about them or assign any importance to them, we just aren't very aware of it - except for those of us who come to places like this and discuss dreams regularly, and literally share them through something like the Dream Journal system we have here. Also, I don't think you need to be close to someone personally to share dreams with them, I think it just happens naturally, as if possibly many hundreds or thousands of people might be experiencing their own version of the same dream scenario. And I'm not sure it's something you can force to happen by trying, or by suggesting a topic or anything, it just happens when it happens the way it happens.

      (using Go Advanced to see if it prevents double post)

      EDIT: what do you know - it worked!
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 01-25-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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      I want to just add that, the people I shared dreams with were people who's dream journals I had been reading - so possibly that helped 'align' us somehow, I don't know. Just a hypothesis. Possibly sharing dreams consciously, I mean by talking about them or reading DJ's, makes the difference.

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      Darkmatters- the more "shared" dreams or even normal ones you are reading the greater probability you will end affected by what you read. It is more probable that you will have similar dream then.

      I concentrated on small group of people who I know and try do experimental projections directly to them everytime I'm able to. I don't spend all the time with this during my lucid dreams. It is enough to spend relatively short time doing this and then do something else.

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      Darkmatters- the more "shared" dreams or even normal ones you are reading the greater probability you will end affected by what you read. It is more probable that you will have similar dream then.
      I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Do you mean it becomes more likely that you'll experience dream-sharing with them, or just that you're liable to dream similar things and then believe that it was a shared dream? Just because you read a few of somebody's dreams doesn't mean you can predict what they will dream the next night and cause yourself to dream something similar. I suspect this is what you mean, since so far your posts here seem to be very skeptical toward the idea of dream sharing - unless I misunderstand?

      EDIT: on re-reading what you wrote, it does sound like you disbelieve in dream sharing. I will say this - if I hadn't experienced it myself, I would never have believed it (because I took a totally rational/skeptical approach to it) But its the kind of thing that,once you've experienced it you know it's something that can't be explained rationally (unless you can accept that there's some kind of telepathy or something that science has been unable to discover).

      I don't pretend to understand how it works or how it even could work, I'm just explaining what I've experienced and that it seems to be a form of dream sharing.
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 01-25-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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      I had totally forgotten about dream sharing. I am glad that discussion of it is being stirred back up.

      Waking Nomad and Raven Knight are the reason I first became open to shared dreaming. It's not difficult to empathize with a fellow community member and realize that they are not bullshitting and that they've genuinely experienced something. Then I see all the other experiences and it just further backs it up to me. Darkmatters, that's awesome you've experienced it!

      I'll definitely put more focus into figuring out the whole shared dreaming thing. Just not yet, Gotta get that recall back up etc etc.

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      I did excitedly read a lot of Waking Nomad/Man of Shred/Raven Knight shared dreams and the tutorials they posted, but I haven't been able to experience anything at that level of shared dreaming. Then when Hathor said something about dream telepathy and gave a brief description of it, I started to experience it. Then shadowofwind wrote about it and it really started to click for me and make sense, even though it went against my rational materialist beliefs at the time.

      Lol and I remember clearly, when I first started to understand that I had experienced a shared dream, I got really paranoid - could the other person see into my mind? But after a while I realized - I couldn't see into theirs, so why would they be able to? And I decided, if this is what dream telepathy is like, it's not anything to be freaked out about - it's not like the telepathy in movies where people can read each others' minds. At least I haven't experienced it that way - but maybe more powerful dreamers can? But it still did freak me out a little, because suddenly dreams, which I had always thought of as deeply personal experiences, were much more open and public than I had thought. Takes some getting used to!
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 01-25-2018 at 08:47 PM.
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      It's funny because you and I have it backwards from each other. You experienced it, THEN figured out the details and got comfortable with it. I've done so much spiritual research that I've already gained comfort in all the weirdness. I'm totally prepared for when I do experience it.

      I've lost out on the whole experience of discovering it like that though.

    24. #24
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      It is more like: I read about shared dreams, I got intrigued and I started to do experiments.
      I will start to believe in that possibility, when I will experience it. From what I have read, it really looks like real thing. But... it all looks too subjective. I really need my own experiences. Repeatable.

      I wrote some of my more interesting experiences into dream journal here.

      Yes I am very sceptical(I am research scientist, it goes with that ), but that doesn't stop me from further experiments. And I am fully aware that I will newer have independently measurable exact proofs, which I would need to have if this was common scientific research.
      Last edited by Psionik; 01-25-2018 at 09:55 PM.
      slash112, Darkmatters and Sageous like this.

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      Psoinik,

      We can try to 'share a dream' my way, if you're interested. We won't both be asleep at the same time. I don't think its even necessary for you to choose to do this chronologically ahead of my dream, for reasons I'll try to explain in a separate thread. Ask a question that you're deeply interested in, emotionally and morally. Then one or both of us will dream something that we would not have been able to dream ourselves, that is possible because of the presence of the other person's mind, and the intersection of their aim with ours, blessed by providence. This experiment isn't very 'repeatable' with a particular person because its hard to do more than once without running out of questions we can find answers to. But I've had enough experiences like this with enough different people that I have some confidence it will work. I haven't been dreaming lucidly for the last four years, since moving to my present city. But have had a couple of experiences of this type since then, without trying, so I don't think the ability has abandoned me. The reason for using a philosophical question is the subject has to be of interest for the semi-transcendent part of ourselves that's capable of doing this sort of thing. Questions like "what will be the winning lottery number" just don't turn the crank. I guess to some extent that's specific to my personality also. It works even if your motive or interest is a bit different than mine, as long as there's a way for our thoughts connect metaphorically.

      I don't think faith is necessary, skepticism is OK. We only need enough openness that the possibility isn't shut off. If one person is afraid of the experience, or opposed to it, that can be unpleasant though. Each person has a lot of control over how much of their mind is exposed to the other person: that's determined by the nature of the question and what its psychologically connected to. (I have no idea how that works, but it does.) The experience of one's mind not being entirely private may still be a bit freaky though, because it is a lot more direct and personal than speech or writing, at least how I experience it. I think that everyone experiences this at least a little bit through the normal course of living, but without much understanding of what they're feeling.

      Another reason I like philosophical/spiritual questions is it raises the subject to a higher, impersonal plane, so to speak, which helps avoid other psychological complications.

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