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    Thread: Transcendent Dreams Discussion

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      Smile Transcendent Dreams Discussion

      Hey i made this thread because i still want to read about others experience with transcendent dreams. Most of my dreams that seem transcendent are mainly dreams that put me on the right path. Kind of like a guide. I wanna read what a transcendent dream is really like to others and I'd like to compare so i can build on my experiences and see what other's perspectives are about it.
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      I will follow your thread with great interest

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      Quote Originally Posted by RealityShifter View Post
      I will follow your thread with great interest
      Glad your interested~^^ But here no hardcore disputing so let's keep it clean. Also, I will come back to this thread tomorrow and see what I can add if no one comments. Idk why I always come at the time I'm sleepy. Its 12:22am.
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      Good idea for a thread Dawn!

      I'm experienced in "transcending", but I only have a little bit of experience with transcendental dreams. You'll get better responses about transcendental dreams from people other than me.

      In waking life, I practice Advaita Vedanta. It has reflected in non-lucid dreams a few times.
      Part of the practice of Vedanta is to transcend the body/mind. To transcend the person. To transcend the physical.
      In waking life, this feels like watching my experience as if there's a movie screen in front of me while I sit in a silent, peaceful, blissful void.
      Our whole experience is made up of thoughts and senses. There is a witness to that experience which is outside of physical reality.
      Using the concept of "I am the witness" or even "I am the void", we can transcend the body/mind.

      Let me just be clear that this is not the entire practice of Vedanta and doesn't actually represent the "absolute truth". But it's a genuine way to transcend.

      In a few of my dreams, my attention was drawn to "the void". So I put my sense of self in there like usual. I was met with that familiar bliss.
      In doing this, I sorta woke up and fell back asleep many times, but I wasn't moving at all. I didn't really have a sense of "body" so different states of consciousness just kinda floated in and out of the void while I remained in complete peace.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      Hey i made this thread because i still want to read about others experience with transcendent dreams. Most of my dreams that seem transcendent are mainly dreams that put me on the right path. Kind of like a guide. I wanna read what a transcendent dream is really like to others and I'd like to compare so i can build on my experiences and see what other's perspectives are about it.
      This is a good idea, DawnEye, and I'm scouring my memory for a dream or two that I can post that will make sense. The trouble here is that dreams of transcendence, by their nature, are very difficult to "bring back" for yourself, much less to put into words that make sense to others... hmm, just so I don't go on about this, here is a thread I started that discusses the difficulty I mention (at least I think it does; I haven't looked at it in years!); in the meantime I'll try to come back sometime soon with a couple of hopefully helpful examples...
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      Good idea for a thread Dawn!

      I'm experienced in "transcending", but I only have a little bit of experience with transcendental dreams. You'll get better responses about transcendental dreams from people other than me.

      In waking life, I practice Advaita Vedanta. It has reflected in non-lucid dreams a few times.
      Part of the practice of Vedanta is to transcend the body/mind. To transcend the person. To transcend the physical.
      In waking life, this feels like watching my experience as if there's a movie screen in front of me while I sit in a silent, peaceful, blissful void.
      Our whole experience is made up of thoughts and senses. There is a witness to that experience which is outside of physical reality.
      Using the concept of "I am the witness" or even "I am the void", we can transcend the body/mind.

      Let me just be clear that this is not the entire practice of Vedanta and doesn't actually represent the "absolute truth". But it's a genuine way to transcend.

      In a few of my dreams, my attention was drawn to "the void". So I put my sense of self in there like usual. I was met with that familiar bliss.
      In doing this, I sorta woke up and fell back asleep many times, but I wasn't moving at all. I didn't really have a sense of "body" so different states of consciousness just kinda floated in and out of the void while I remained in complete peace.
      Thanks~ : ) Even a little can go a long way so I don't mind. I've never heard of Vendanta before. I'm curious what the name is directly translated.Also, I'm trying but i can't quite visualize the movie screen example. How do you watch your experience as you sit in a blissful void? In my mind it seems like "action" and "no action". The concept is still interesting though. I think I've practiced this concept in certain ways. It really makes me think too. Like it makes me wonder how our attachment to physical varies and whether we transcend in different areas in WL.

      I also think it's cool how you use the void to transcend. I'm trying to think what could be so blissful about it though. Feels like i'm resonating more with the "I'am the witness" than "I'am the void". However, I think it's cause I'm thinking of how its important to be balanced in WL. In contrast, remembering my experiences being in the void I can see now why you would like it. There is a certain blissful feeling you get without having to worry about your physical body. You are also less likely to be distracted by your senses so in a way you do experience complete peace.
      Nice~

      Also, I repeated certain things you mentioned because I slowly started to get what you meant and repeating it helped me put two and two together.xD


      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      This is a good idea, DawnEye, and I'm scouring my memory for a dream or two that I can post that will make sense. The trouble here is that dreams of transcendence, by their nature, are very difficult to "bring back" for yourself, much less to put into words that make sense to others... hmm, just so I don't go on about this, here is a thread I started that discusses the difficulty I mention (at least I think it does; I haven't looked at it in years!); in the meantime I'll try to come back sometime soon with a couple of hopefully helpful examples...
      Thanks Sageous~ : D lol It's alright. I'am curious about why it is difficult so I will check out the thread to see if I can find something. If I find nothing I'll still be looking forward to any dreams you can come up with if possible. ^w^
      Last edited by DawnEye11; 03-04-2018 at 06:00 AM.
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      Im gonna combine my posts
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      Aha

      The thing is, if you point your focus inward/backward, you'll reach a "void", or a "back screen of consciousness", or "pure awareness".
      These three terms all point to the same thing. The witness (also known as the true self).

      Before I discovered this thing, I had only had really small experiences of it.
      A few times, I smoked a lot of weed, and things got weird. I started to see my entire field of vision suspended in my perception, like an eyeball contained my entire sensory perception and thoughts.

      But it wasn't until I properly discovered this thing that the magic unfolded.

      Usually we are looking through the filter of our ego. What happens when you become "the witness" is you see the ego from a place of complete stillness, through the eye of truth.
      The truth is, there is always a still/silent witness, the eye of truth is always watching in peace, but we never pay attention to it.

      How can it be bliss? Well, as humans we are used to a cascade of thought and emotion and hurt. When you pull your sense of self back into the witness, you have created a space between YOU and THINGS (and btw, thoughts and emotions count as THINGS). Therefore things cannot hurt you. You are completely liberated from suffering. And you are of course suspended in a state of eternal peace.

      The thing I'm pointing at is in fact beyond words. I'm just doing my best to point in a specific direction in the hopes that you catch it.
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 06:04 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      Aha

      The thing is, if you point your focus inward/backward, you'll reach a "void", or a "back screen of consciousness", or "pure awareness".
      These three terms all point to the same thing. The witness (also known as the true self).

      Before I discovered this thing, I had only had really small experiences of it.
      A few times, I smoked a lot of weed, and things got weird. I started to see my entire field of vision suspended in my perception, like an eyeball contained my entire sensory perception and thoughts.

      But it wasn't until I properly discovered this thing that the magic unfolded.

      Usually we are looking through the filter of our ego. What happens when you become "the witness" is you see the ego from a place of complete stillness, through the eye of truth.
      The truth is, there is always a still/silent witness, the eye of truth is always watching in peace, but we never pay attention to it.

      How can it be bliss? Well, as humans we are used to a cascade of thought and emotion and hurt. When you pull your sense of self back into the witness, you have created a space between YOU and THINGS (and btw, thoughts and emotions count as THINGS). Therefore things cannot hurt you. You are completely liberated from suffering. And you are of course suspended in a state of eternal peace.

      The thing I'm pointing at is in fact beyond words. I'm just doing my best to point in a specific direction in the hopes that you catch it.
      Thanks for explaining again Slash. For some reason I'm trying to understand but I can't really get it. I understood the blissful Part but I don't get how eyeballs can contain thought. Do you mean it felt like you were where your eyeball was? Also, I may have misunderstood the witness. I'm trying to see it the way you see it and I'm thinking of it as the part of us that needs no identity and creates balance. Does that make sense? If not maybe I need a simpler example.
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      Ok haha. Lemme try this. Look at your experience directly.
      You've got two eyeballs that produce a single image in your mind.
      Forget the eyeballs and just look at the image. What is witnessing that looking? What perceives your perception?

      I know how easy it will be to answer "the brain" or "the mind". But let's forget the physical dimension for a moment. Just look directly at your experience. After all, the only thing you can prove to be true is your current perception of this moment. You can't even prove to yourself that you have a brain. You can only prove that you are seeing appearances (in other words, experiencing experiences, or perceiving perception). It's that seeing we want to look at. Just the seeing of your experience. There is a seeing, and there are appearances. At the moment we need to look at these as separate things.

      The seeing is very pure. It is simply observing. It doesn't have thoughts or feelings or anything, and it is completely unchanging. Hence, silent awareness.
      The appearances are constantly changing in front of the seeing. Sight, sound, touch, taste, smell and thoughts all buzzing about chopping and changing in front of the seeing.

      I'll let you absorb that before I say anything else.
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 08:03 AM.
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      Continued...

      Consider this.



      The image itself represents the appearances.
      Your computer monitor represents the seeing (the witness).

      This isn't perfect, but I hope it helps you understand what I'm getting at.
      Ignore "the void" for now if you want. First get used to the fact of the witness vs the witnessed. It's like black vs white, they are opposites. One never changes, the other is in a constant state of change.
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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      Ohhh.so its whats allowing you to see itself that is the witness and this helps cause it increases your awareness? This sounds like meditating except with your eyes open. How long do you practice percieving perception slash? Also, do you literally sit or stay in a position to do it? I ask this cause if you move, you would have to be aware of other things in your surroundings and in a way wouldn't that distract you?
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      Aha you're asking the right questions now! You've caught onto it! Trust me it's harder than it looks to get people to see this. xD

      and this helps cause it increases your awareness?
      First thing you gotta know is, the witness, let's call it "pure awareness" is of course always 100% aware.
      But indeed to get in touch with this "pure awareness" can drastically affect your "awareness".

      It's like becoming "aware of awareness".

      Another step up from being aware of pure awareness, is to move your sense of self INTO the pure awareness. This puts you directly in the seat of the eye of truth.
      Ironically, another way to get to the same "place" is to completely drop your sense of self. Your current sense of self is illusory so to drop it reveals "truth".
      Meditation actually naturally brings you back closer to the space of pure awareness, but you won't be aware of such a thing unless you're already aware of awareness.

      What is "truth"? Truth is reality exactly as it is. Reality seen without fabrications or filters created by the ego/mind.

      How long do you practice percieving perception slash? Also, do you literally sit or stay in a position to do it?
      When I first discovered it, I practiced it as much as I could. I didn't know at the time, but I was re-enforcing an "anchor into stillness" by moving my sense of self into the stillness in as many situations as possible.

      It doesn't matter what you are doing, whether you are sitting meditating, or if you are doing stuff... Pure awareness is always simply watching from its pure place.
      When I started, I noticed that when I was in heated situations, I would lose my connection to the pure awareness. I would drop back into my mind and get all mixed up in identifying with my false sense of self, and reacting out of that. So I worked on shifting my awareness back into the pure awareness even in the most difficult situations.

      After some time, this "anchor" was so strong that I would go about and not even think about it. I can talk to people and still be in complete peace watching this movie called "Life".
      The reason it feels like watching a movie is because I'm not even in control of what happens. I am purely the observer. I am not Stephen. I am watching Stephen's experience.

      I Am.
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 02:52 PM.
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      Hehe Its good to know that I caught on to it now. I don't have time to read carefully now so i will come back later . Thanks again Slash.
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      I think I can help a bit with this. I don't claim to know much about it, but I have studied meditation and done a bit of it, and that's how I encountered the observer and realized its nature. Slash, by all means, if anything I say is off, let me know! But here's my understanding.

      The way you discover the observer is to sit quietly and switch off the chatter in your mind. There are a few tricks for this - one is to say "Oooooooommmmmmmm" or something similar - it can be silently in your head so to speak, or out loud. This keeps your mental 'vocal chords' busy doing something so they can't be 'speaking' as they want to generally do all the time. It doesn't have to be oomm, but something very simple that you can just keep doing constantly. Sometimes if I'm a little hyper and find it hard to shut off the chatter, I'll count for a while, to get my mind to stop using words, and then taper off from counting to Omm or something. Another trick I've found is to trap your tongue inside your mouth, between the roof and floor of the mouth. If you sort of jam your tongue forward up against the inside of your teeth and gently close your mouth around it it gets sort of wedged in and seems to stop trying to wag all the time. One thing I learned is that there are levels of inner speaking - the most obvious level, and the closest to actual speaking out loud, is what's called subvocalization, and it's basically like whispering but silently - you often actually move your tongue and throat as you're doing it. So if you trap your tongue and relax it and your throat you'll notice right away the level of chatter in your inner mind drops quite a bit and it's easier to maintain inner quiet. When I understood and had experienced this, I realized there are several other levels of inner chatter, each more subtle than the last, until you reach a level where it's not really words at all but just sort of images or ideas bubbling up randomly from the unconscious, vague and sort of random. Those are very quiet and not couched in verbal language, so not produced by the language centers which are n the 'conscious' part of the brain.

      I apologize if you already know all this DawnEye, but this is also for readers who might not be aware of it. It does sound like you've done some meditation before, but it's not clear how much you know about this. And I find it's often helpful to go through and re-state the basics - sometimes an aspect pops up that somebody didn't understand before.

      Ok, so as you become better able to switch off the inner chatter, you sit quietly and try to keep your mind clear. The attitude is important - if words or thoughts or emotions rise up don't get angry and don't get attached to them - just let them rise up like clouds in a clear sky and observe them, without becoming attached. Let them pass right through your mind and up out the 'top of your head' to dissipate into space. Use an attitude of loving kindness - forgive yourself for having thoughts or ideas - this is the attitude you want to develop and use throughout your life as much as possible - not only for yourself but for everyone and everything.

      As you become better at letting the thoughts and feelings rise and pass harmlessly through your mind, you become aware of the fact that you are not your thoughts or your feelings. If you can observe them, then you are not them. This is a different level of awareness from the common one - most people think they are their own thoughts and feelings. But obviously you're something else, something that can observe them and not become attached to them. This something that you are, is the observer, or the void, whatever you want to call it. And by practicing meditation like this you strengthen your awareness of it and you get better at separating your sense of self from your thoughts and feelings - you begin to realize that, in terms of 'positioning' in your headspace - you are somewhere 'behind' them, able to watch them as they rise like clouds to dissipate into the sky.

      At some points it seems like Slash is talking about another level of self behind this. Maybe that one is called the void?
      Last edited by Darkmatters; 03-04-2018 at 03:20 PM.
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      Great post Darkmatters!

      What you've described there are fantastic ways to "get there".
      For me, the "direct approach" worked just fine for me. As soon as discovering it, I could switch between the person and the witness at will, it's like a switch in my head.
      But not everyone finds it so easy. Enter, meditation.


      Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
      At some points it seems like Slash is talking about another level of self behind this. Maybe that one is called the void?
      Ok what I'm about to say is gonna bring a whole new level of complexity, so Dawn, don't worry too much about the following. I really shouldn't be over-complicating things for you.

      Spoiler for If you want to explode your head:
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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      Hahahahaha I just edited my post, I spoiler'd it with "If you want to explode your head". Then I saw your GIF.
      That was a funny moment.

      EDIT: Dat GIF gets funnier the longer I look at it
      Last edited by slash112; 03-04-2018 at 03:54 PM.
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      Lol!! I think this thread just became transcendent!

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      Iíve been following this thread with interest since Iíve never felt that Ďtranscendentí was quite the right word for any of my more exotic dream experiences, but itís clearly something that resonates for many people. And now I finally understand: it's all about exploding heads.

      ...Kidding, of course. But looking everything over, I can see overlap with at least some of my own experiences. I just seem to have followed a different enough trajectory through life to where it's never made sense for that to be something to focus on.

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      Yeah...my head exploded after reading everything. Lol Also theres a word that stuck with me and it is "drop". Like your dropping parts of yourself till you are just simply there. Reminds me of when I stared outside the car window and passing images would pass without a thought. Until I snapped back into reality.

      However, I don't think you would want to drop everything to that point cause than you'd probably end up daydreaming. Thinking about it now "simply is ness" might be before you get to that state. Since it is probably you not having your past experiences or your personality in mind and just doing stuff?
      Seems almost robotic to me.Am I digging deeper than what it really is?

      Also, Darkmatters when you mentioned the part where
      the observer is the void that confused me again.I thought perception was the void. And the observer" is behind the void. I could be thinking too much of it again but i feel some of these names are unfitting and just confuse me more. Its like the names make it seem grander than what it really is.

      For example, for the true self. Why would no self be true self?
      After rereading Im starting to wonder if what i was thinking before wasn't so off.
      slash112 and Sageous like this.
      "Be the best You, you can be...Relax...Listen...Imagine...*Silence*...Zzzzz"

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    22. #22
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      Ahah yeah, I do apologize, this thread is an explosion of words filled with all sorts of misleading connotations. I'm gonna do my best to clear up your misunderstandings, because I've basically just created a mess in your mind. :L My bad

      Also theres a word that stuck with me and it is "drop". Like your dropping parts of yourself till you are just simply there. Reminds me of when I stared outside the car window and passing images would pass without a thought. Until I snapped back into reality.
      You're definitely thinking along the right lines here.

      However, I don't think you would want to drop everything to that point cause than you'd probably end up daydreaming.
      Lemme just give you a little perspective-shift on the idea of "dropping".
      To me, dropping should be an act of simply letting go of the tight grasp. Usually we go around tightly grasping everything, clinging onto things for dear life. Like, as if something terrible will happen if we let go.
      This is something we do without realizing it. It happens mostly through the identification with things. To give you an example, when you identify with pain, it fuckin sucks! Stop identifying with it or let go of your grasp, then, well it's simply pain, it's neither good nor bad.

      You can drop *everything* and still completely function as a human being. Difference is, you will feel light as a feather, and free. Personally I think dropping everything is a fantastic little challenge to prove to yourself what happens when you do it.


      Thinking about it now "simply is ness" might be before you get to that state. Since it is probably you not having your past experiences or your personality in mind and just doing stuff?
      Yeah is-ness is something easily accessible.
      Again, don't look too much into the order I put those layers of self earlier.



      the observer is the void that confused me again.I thought perception was the void.
      Perception (or, better to say "the perceiver") is indeed the void.
      The perceiver is the observer. Two words for the same thing.


      Lemme explain why the observer/the perceiver/the witness/pure awareness/true self is the void.

      Look at the perceiver. In any possible way you can, look at this thing which is beyond words.
      Does it have any qualities? Does it have a colour? Does it have form or a shape?
      I have more to say, but I need you to answer that question first. What qualities can you see in the perceiver?
      Last edited by slash112; 03-05-2018 at 07:13 PM.
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      Double post - connection fart

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      For example, for the true self. Why would no self be true self?
      You might think in terms of the self that you're trying to shed in all this is the self you've constructed throughout your life to represent you, in a dualistic manner (meaning a "you" separate from the world). Once that self is shed, then what is left is the actual "You" that has to date been hidden beneath all layers of crap you've generated to create and sustain the imperfect construct that you think right now is "You."

      But do you know what? I'm not sure that any of that matters here!

      Though this conversation is very interesting and mildly humbling, I think. DawnEye, that a couple of very knowledgeable guys may have dragged you a bit too far into the philosophical weeds over a subject that, to me at least, is a remarkably simple one.

      Transcendental dreams, to me, are no more than dreams whose content (be it spiritual, emotional, or just imagery) ranges beyond the experience and knowledge of the dreamer. In other words, transcendental dreams take us to a place that we literally cannot understand with the tools we currently have. So, all voids, perspectives, self/Self talk, etc., aside, the thing that makes a dream transcendental is "just" its presentation of stuff that lie beyond the walls of our human experience. It really is that simple.

      Now, all this stuff that Slash and Darkmatters is certainly valuable, and, should you be able to absorb it all in a way that makes your psyche more receptive to things that cannot be defined or understood, which BTW could take years or even a lifetime (so don't be too upset if it's not all making sense just now), things that cannot be defined or understood will still happen to your enlightened perspective. I like to think that there is a whole universe of experience and knowledge still waiting for us, so even if we transcend our current selves, there will be dreams that those selves will not be able to "bring back" in a way that makes any sense. Oh fer God's sake, now I'm doing it... anyway:

      Look at it this way: Transcendence happens all the time in waking life: A musician might find a new sound that never existed before (think Jimi Hendrix), an artist might change the very nature of painting (think Picasso), a theorist might assemble an equation that changes everything (think Einstein), an inventor might find a new thing that changes the human condition (think, perhaps, of that first primitive man who tasted a bit of cooked meat). Transcendence happens in lesser ways as well, every day, but the difference in waking life is that both the person doing the transcendental discovery and the people she shares it with can see the results of the transcendence: Jimi plays a guitar, Picasso shows his painting, the nuclear age (not to mention the age of relativism in social interaction) quantify Einstein's theories, and most of us like a good cooked steak. In other words, there is a physical object or concept that can be referred to after the transcendent event, and its existence allows us to form the necessary metaphors and definitions required to understand -- to prove -- that the transcendence happened. In dreams, this is not the case, and that's what makes transcendental dreams difficult.

      When we have transcendental dreams, even when they're of the lucid variety, the only thing we have in waking life to measure them is our memory of them happening... And, when we're trying to remember an event that exceeds our current levels of knowledge and experience, that can be difficult to impossible. This is because our memory needs to attach something to the event to record it, be that a metaphor that makes sense or perhaps a similar memory; but if there is no something available, we are left the day after being mystified by what happened.

      That mystification doesn't last long, though. A dreamer seems to do a couple of things after a transcendental dream: One is to quickly discard it as nonsensical or nothing relevant to their own life (the most common reaction, in my opinion); another (should they feel there was some power in the dream) is that they will attach metaphors that are not correct, but do work for them, like drawing on religious or, these days, movie imagery that helps what they experienced make sense in terms they can understand; lastly, they cling to what they can of the experience, understand that they cannot describe it, but value what happened and look forward to next time... I'm a fan of the third choice, and also a fan of developing metaphors that can at least preserve these experiences in memory in an accurate manner.

      I am going on way too much here. I guess the tl;dr: here is this: Transcendental dreams are very simple events: you are just experiencing, in dreams, content that exists beyond your ability to understand them, and possibly even to remember them as they truly happened. The rest of the stuff here is real interesting, and helpful in its own right, but I thought it worth repeating nature of the thing we're supposed to be exploring here.

      Oh, and of course now I'm out of time and still haven't offered up any examples!

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      Quote Originally Posted by slash112 View Post
      Aha you're asking the right questions now! You've caught onto it! Trust me it's harder than it looks to get people to see this. xD


      First thing you gotta know is, the witness, let's call it "pure awareness" is of course always 100% aware.
      But indeed to get in touch with this "pure awareness" can drastically affect your "awareness".

      It's like becoming "aware of awareness"...........
      Quote Originally Posted by Darkmatters View Post
      I think I can help a bit with this. I don't claim to know much about it, but I have studied meditation and done a bit of it, and that's how I encountered the observer and realized its nature. Slash, by all means, if anything I say is off, let me know! But here's my understanding.

      The way you discover the observer is to sit quietly and switch off the chatter in your mind. There are a few tricks for this - one is to say "Oooooooommmmmmmm" or something similar - it can be silently in your head so to speak, or out loud. ....................
      Wait, wait, wait something is wrong here. Are you telling that every time up until now, when I was trying to WILD by techniques created by myself, actually I was "transcending". These steps you described so far, I was doing them unconsciously for buttload of time. Every time when my WILD was starting, I moved myself one step further after "The void". Did I just get a brain fart.


      Are you doing this with open eyes maybe?
      Last edited by RealityShifter; 03-05-2018 at 09:59 PM.

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