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    1. #1
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      Having a stuck feeling when trying Micheal Raduga technique

      Hi,
      I've been having a stuck feeling when trying to do the Micheal Raduga technique. I set the alarm to make up for subsequent awakenings. Every time I awaken to the alarm I end up trying to separate every time when that doesn't work I end up doing a cycling technique and get a separation (or shaking) feeling. I then try to do separation and nothing happens after that. I've also been doing it everyday of this week.

      This is the technique I'm trying.

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

      Thanks.

    2. #2
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      Hey luff, I have some experience with the raduga technique.

      I'll try to help you but can you tell me the exact steps you are taking in more detail?

      From what I've read in your post, you have multiple alarms set for the wakings? You only need alarm for the first time waking up. The subsequent awakenings shuld come naturally.

      Also when you're doing the raduga technique only do it a few nights during the week as the author states. I tried to do it continuously before and it stopped working.

      I think it's due to something like you getting used to waking up at a certain time everyday, and suddenly switching it up to make it easy to enter rem. But if you do it all the time it doesn't work anymore.

      So take a few days rest from it. Try it only on minority of he days of the week.
      Last edited by ZenLD; 03-24-2019 at 01:48 AM.

    3. #3
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      Oh and how many times do you cycle? It shuld last about a minute total. If you can't leave the body just go back to sleep and try again next time you wake up. You should naturally wake up like 5 times and try to do it each time.

      Good luck!

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by ZenLD View Post
      Hey luff, I have some experience with the raduga technique.

      I'll try to help you but can you tell me the exact steps you are taking in more detail?

      From what I've read in your post, you have multiple alarms set for the wakings? You only need alarm for the first time waking up. The subsequent awakenings shuld come naturally.

      Also when you're doing the raduga technique only do it a few nights during the week as the author states. I tried to do it continuously before and it stopped working.

      I think it's due to something like you getting used to waking up at a certain time everyday, and suddenly switching it up to make it easy to enter rem. But if you do it all the time it doesn't work anymore.

      So take a few days rest from it. Try it only on minority of he days of the week.
      Hi,
      On page 255 of the phase book, it says you can use alarms if you can't awaken. Also, I'm going to try it only on Thursdays / Saturdays / Sundays. For some reason I get nothing when trying to do the technique, also I think the problem I might have is "Excessive Analysis" and "Excessively Alert Awakening (no Attempt or a Sluggish One)" under typical mistakes.

      Edit:
      After not getting separation I cycled four times with straining the brain, looking at darkness and swimming. After that, I got a separation feeling (also shaking feeling). Then after that nothing happened.

      I also have a problem with getting subsequent awakenings without the alarm.

      Edit:
      The reason I was also using the alarm was that every time I awaken after a minimum of 4 hours I end up staying awake the entire night, even when staying awake for five minutes or less.

      Thanks.
      Last edited by luffy28; 03-24-2019 at 05:07 PM.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      Hi,
      On page 255 of the phase book, it says you can use alarms if you can't awaken. Also, I'm going to try it only on Thursdays / Saturdays / Sundays. For some reason I get nothing when trying to do the technique, also I think the problem I might have is "Excessive Analysis" and "Excessively Alert Awakening (no Attempt or a Sluggish One)" under typical mistakes.

      Edit:
      After not getting separation I cycled four times with straining the brain, looking at darkness and swimming. After that, I got a separation feeling (also shaking feeling). Then after that nothing happened.

      I also have a problem with getting subsequent awakenings without the alarm.
      So first off all, yeah reducing the number of days will help. It's one of the reasons I stopped raduga tech to explore other things because I could not get it working on continuous days.

      In regards to the excessive wakefulness, does it happen during the initial wake or during subsequent awakening?

      So after you get the separation feeling from cycling, do you keep up the technique that makes you feel separated (like it days in the book) ? Also do you try a separation technique after you feel separated? You could actually have separated already on the bed and just need to roll out of bed

      Did you ever use rolling out as part of your cycle? I used it during the cycle and it worked well for me. I think almost all of my success was from rolling out (maybe90%) if you discount the ones where I showed up immediately at mirror or something. Its easy and saves the need to do another separation technique.

      Oh yeah did you see the YouTube video where he does a seminar? The first one, 1/3 what he talks at around 1hr 9min (little brfor and after) might be similar to the problem you're having (I actually randomly skipped midway and ended up at 1:09 lol). What he ended up pretty similar to what I wrote. It's also got a pretty good practice session towards the end too. Don't think I can't link it, cuz I just joined here recently but it should be pretty easy to find.

      Hope this helps

    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by ZenLD View Post
      So first off all, yeah reducing the number of days will help. It's one of the reasons I stopped raduga tech to explore other things because I could not get it working on continuous days.

      In regards to the excessive wakefulness, does it happen during the initial wake or during subsequent awakening?

      So after you get the separation feeling from cycling, do you keep up the technique that makes you feel separated (like it days in the book) ? Also do you try a separation technique after you feel separated? You could actually have separated already on the bed and just need to roll out of bed

      Did you ever use rolling out as part of your cycle? I used it during the cycle and it worked well for me. I think almost all of my success was from rolling out (maybe90%) if you discount the ones where I showed up immediately at mirror or something. Its easy and saves the need to do another separation technique.

      Oh yeah did you see the YouTube video where he does a seminar? The first one, 1/3 what he talks at around 1hr 9min (little brfor and after) might be similar to the problem you're having (I actually randomly skipped midway and ended up at 1:09 lol). What he ended up pretty similar to what I wrote. It's also got a pretty good practice session towards the end too. Don't think I can't link it, cuz I just joined here recently but it should be pretty easy to find.

      Hope this helps
      It happens during the initial wake (right after awakening after the alarm). I ended up trying to separate after getting the feeling. It's just a feeling of separation not feeling separated totally. I tried rolling out of the bed after the separation/shaking feeling and I just stay in my body. No the only cylcing techniques I used were straining the brain / looking into darkness / swimming.

      I watched only his first part of the video seminar. If / when you reply back I'll post the notes I made in word.

      Thanks.

    7. #7
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      I actually think you're really close. Just like how he says in the video to "try to separate no matter what. " you gotta do it like no tomorrow. Like really really strong "no matter what". If rolling to left fails try right. If right fails try left again. Imagine that someone is holding you down with their weight and your trying to get out. You GOTTA get out. Kinda feeling

      O about being too awake, I'm like that too. Just reduce the wake time even more. You only have to be awake enough toable to keep the thought of "next time i wake up I'll do the techniques" in you mind. Or maybe gotta play around with the alarm time a little if you think its necessary.

      And yeah the videos pretty good. I once separated or something while listening to it and falling asleep

      But remember to take few days off.
      Last edited by ZenLD; 03-24-2019 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Forgot to add info

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by ZenLD View Post
      I actually think you're really close. Just like how he says in the video to "try to separate no matter what. " you gotta do it like no tomorrow. Like really really strong "no matter what". If rolling to left fails try right. If right fails try left again. Imagine that someone is holding you down with their weight and your trying to get out. You GOTTA get out. Kinda feeling

      O about being too awake, I'm like that too. Just reduce the wake time even more. You only have to be awake enough toable to keep the thought of "next time i wake up I'll do the techniques" in you mind. Or maybe gotta play around with the alarm time a little if you think its necessary.

      And yeah the videos pretty good. I once separated or something while listening to it and falling asleep

      But remember to take few days off.
      Thanks,
      instead of waking up after four hours I'm going to try to awaken after two to two and a half hours of sleep.

      Also, this video said to awaken after two to six hours of sleep

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD5RghEfG6E

      This guide says to awaken two to three hours before your usual awakening time.

      https://howtolucid.com/wake-back-bed...eam-technique/

      I don't know what to do. Can you (or anyone else) come up with a method to combine the two?

      For the obe4u method in place of step 1 can I replace it with the two URLs I put?

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

      For some reason, I can't upload my notes. Can you or anyone else tell me how to make them downloadable?

      Thanks.
      Last edited by luffy28; 03-25-2019 at 01:38 AM.

    9. #9
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      The two you listed are WILD techniques and if you want to try that way, the guides on this site is much more thorough and well explained than those 2.

      And ok the problem with adding wbtb WILD to the raduga technique is whether you will be able to remind your self to try to separate on subsequent awakenings. It's possible but you probably need to practice each technique until it becomes second nature so you don't have to think about it.

      In the end though anything is possible. If you think you can do it then do it. You might fail for longer time because you're trying something harder but if you make it work you're gonna be really good at it become a champ. If you want quicker results though, probably stick to what you're doing. I mean if you already managed to separate a little... You're so close. I can tell you is much harder to get immediate results on regular methods though.

      You can do anything you want. Believe in yourself. Get good rest for a few days and try again, then you will succeed.

    10. #10
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      Can you or anyone else give me some tips on how to get subsequent awakenings? Do I have to have the intention to do it? The reason I'm asking is that I kinda got a subsequent awakening this morning. In other words, do I have to expect myself to get the subsequent awakenings? Also can I skip step 1 and when I go to sleep have the intention of doing subsequent awakenings and lucid dreaming techniques?

      Edit: It may have not worked because I was counting the seconds. In this URL he says not to count seconds while doing the cycling techniques.

      https://obe4u.com/typical-student-questions-2/

      Thanks.
      Last edited by luffy28; 03-25-2019 at 11:42 AM.

    11. #11
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      I have had some success with this type of technique. My natural sleep cycle is very conducive to this as I naturally wake up up each night 5 or 6 hours after falling asleep. At that time I go through sensory awareness cycles and set a strong intention as to what I want to do upon subsequent awakenings. I think you need to train yourself to those subsequent awakenings because it feels like it needs to occur naturally to really work.

      Here are things I have learned that may be helpful here:

      1. You need to be getting good sleep. If you are running on a sleep deficit your body is not going to be very cooperative. With 6 hours of really good sleep things tend to flow nicely.

      2. You really need to set a strong intention at that first waking period. This may be the most important thing for you right now if you are struggling with the subsequent awakenings. I never use an alarm but I can't imagine this working if you have to shut off an alarm.

      3. As ZenLD has been saying, you can't push this too hard. You'll be exhausting your body and you'll start to get frustrated. Take a few days away and get some real sleep. You really can't push this river. Instead you need to try to find the way it flows for you.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

      lucid days....lucid nights

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by lenscaper View Post
      I have had some success with this type of technique. My natural sleep cycle is very conducive to this as I naturally wake up up each night 5 or 6 hours after falling asleep. At that time I go through sensory awareness cycles and set a strong intention as to what I want to do upon subsequent awakenings. I think you need to train yourself to those subsequent awakenings because it feels like it needs to occur naturally to really work.

      Here are things I have learned that may be helpful here:

      1. You need to be getting good sleep. If you are running on a sleep deficit your body is not going to be very cooperative. With 6 hours of really good sleep things tend to flow nicely.

      2. You really need to set a strong intention at that first waking period. This may be the most important thing for you right now if you are struggling with the subsequent awakenings. I never use an alarm but I can't imagine this working if you have to shut off an alarm.

      3. As ZenLD has been saying, you can't push this too hard. You'll be exhausting your body and you'll start to get frustrated. Take a few days away and get some real sleep. You really can't push this river. Instead you need to try to find the way it flows for you.
      One of the reasons I may have not gotten an obe or LD was because I was counting during doing the cycling techniques.

      On here he says not to count during cycling techniques.

      https://obe4u.com/typical-student-questions-2/

      I can also skip the first step and just do step 2 before/while going to sleep. What do you think? Also, can you or anyone else share how to get subsequent awakenings? Personal experiences can help also.

      I mean step one of this URL.

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

      Thanks.

    13. #13
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      I don't think counting makes that much difference....at least not in my experience.

      I routinely practice SSILD where counting the time in the cycles is considered to be a mistake. I find that counting helps me to stay focused as long as I am not focusing on the counting. I always count and I have had great success that way.

      As I mentioned about subsequent awakenings, I think setting a very strong intent is one good way to create them. It may take some time to create that neural pathway but it will definitely happen if you are diligent.
      The more I gaze....the more I crave to see

      lucid days....lucid nights

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by lenscaper View Post
      I don't think counting makes that much difference....at least not in my experience.

      I routinely practice SSILD where counting the time in the cycles is considered to be a mistake. I find that counting helps me to stay focused as long as I am not focusing on the counting. I always count and I have had great success that way.

      As I mentioned about subsequent awakenings, I think setting a very strong intent is one good way to create them. It may take some time to create that neural pathway but it will definitely happen if you are diligent.
      I mean't to say can I skip step 1 and do step 2 before / while going to sleep? Also I think I know what you mean by having a strong intent. By that you mean it (thinking about doing subsequent awakenings / having an intent to do them) should be the last thought on my mind before sleep.

      https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

      Also can anyone else (or you) can share personal experiences with doing subsequent awakenings?

      Thanks.

    15. #15
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      Well. Seems like the threads been growing fast while I was gone. I ended up APing. Maybe it was my strong intent to help you or something but it happened even though I wanted lucid dreams. I'll probably write down the whole events and analysis in my DJ later if you want to see it but I'll just tell you only info that's probably going to help you.

      So after awakening couple of times (naturally), this time I woke and got vibrations. I just focused on vibrations. Didn't leave body. Felt vibrations again and got quiet. Thought I failed but tried to push myself off the bed to leave the body. And yeah I succeeded. Did stuff. Woke up. Got vibrations again pushed myself out again. Woke. Pushed myself out again.

      I'll try to go into more detail when I have time to type it all out later today but notice how I thought I failed. Yet when I pushed myself out of bed I succeeded. It's like that sometimes. You think you failed and your just in bed but all you need to do is get up. Replace my vibration part with cycling technique or separation and it's the exact same thing.

      So regarding sleeping beforehand. It helps because you're more likely to be in rem sleep if you sleep beforehand. Studies show this increases chance of Ld and things alot. But it's true that is not 100% necessary, just helps you increase your chance.

      So for me yes, I don't do step one. But that's because I wake up multiple times through the night already.

      And for subsequent awakenings; yes it is strong intent that causes it. Try to include ill wake AND do techniques. Because when I first learned the technique I got up but was too tired and didn't do the techniques.

      So in short, you can do whatever you want. But the reason they tell you to do that is it'll make it alot easier especially on your first times. And raduga trained thousands of people and that exact method must ended up being most effective on majority of the time. Just easier, it's not a must.

      You can do anything if you're determined and patient enough. Telling you that you can do it made me do it though .

      It's easy, relax. You can do it even if you're missing some steps. You can do anything champ; relax get good rest, try again and boom - succeed.

    16. #16
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      I got an email from Raduga. He said it's fine to sleep for less than four hours.

      Once I see a reply I'll try to post the email if I can.

      Edit: Also how do I change my belief system about Ap / LD? What I mean is my mindset about it. Once someone replies I'll post another astral projection technique from William Buhlman.

      Thanks.
      Last edited by luffy28; 03-26-2019 at 12:29 AM.

    17. #17
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      While I'm glad that you are getting help from the author now, I'd be lying if Im not a little offended or perturbed because its feels like some messages are going to deaf ears. I may be mistaken but it sure is feeling like it.

      OK back to topic so you can try mild or meditation or shadow work kind of thing for belief system.

      Good luck all the best

    18. #18
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      This is the email

      Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 9:01 PM
      To: Michael Raduga <[email protected]>
      Hi,
      I wanted to know if I can replace step 1 in the obe4u method? Instead of sleeping 4 to 6 hours I can sleep for two to two and a half hours. Also does awakening 2 to 3 hours before regular awakening work? The reason I'm asking is that every time I try to awaken after 4 to 6 hours of sleep and try to stay awake for less than 5 minutes I can't go back to sleep and end up staying awake all night long. I have a post on dreamviews asking about this. I also wanted to know how to participate in project Elijah once I have enough experience with the phase?

      Thanks.

      ________________________________________
      THE PHASE <[email protected]> Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:28 AM
      To:
      Hi,

      You can wake up earlier, but there's no reason for this because your next sleep maybe too deep. Try to reduce 5-minute break, make less movements. We've been working on this problem.

      You can participate in our researches even you can enter the phase once per month

      - End

      I don't understand what he means when he says "Try to reduce 5-minute break, make less movements." Can anyone interpret this for me?

      This is the William Buhlman techqniue website.

      AstralInfo.org Out-of-Body Exploration Methods - AstralInfo.org

      AstralInfo.org Effective Mindset - AstralInfo.org

      Thanks.

    19. #19
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      Hi,
      I think I figured out why I stay awake past five minutes after 4 to 6 hours. The reason why is my psych meds. I take a med called Clozaril. When I take 100 mg of it I end up staying wide awake after 4 to 6 hours. When I take 200 mg of it I can sleep for to six hours and I can go back to sleep after staying awake for a while. Could someone tell me how to deal with this?

      Thanks.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      Hi,
      I think I figured out why I stay awake past five minutes after 4 to 6 hours. The reason why is my psych meds. I take a med called Clozaril. When I take 100 mg of it I end up staying wide awake after 4 to 6 hours. When I take 200 mg of it I can sleep for to six hours and I can go back to sleep after staying awake for a while. Could someone tell me how to deal with this?

      Thanks.
      So I found your PM earlier. I'm not a licensed medical practitioner or your family doctor so I can't exactly provide you with advice you regarding your medical dosages. You need to talk to your doctor if you want to play around with your prescription dose.

      And like Mr. Raduga said,

      "Try to reduce 5-minute break, make less movements. We've been working on this problem."

      Try to stay awake less than 5 minutes maybe even 1 minute, and don't move as much. Maybe use less lights, don't use your phone since that light can wake you up.

      If you can't go back to sleep, try other techniques, like the ones on this site. They are excellent and very well written. You can even try the Raduga technique without sleeping beforehand:

      Try the raduga method during a nap, this is another way of doing it without waking up in the night. Check out his book for more info.

      If you are unable to nap then you can do reality checks, used in lucid dreaming. This one requires no change in your sleep. For more info check the DILD guide on this website.

      In short:

      1. Try shorter wake time. No lights, dont move.
      2. Try to do technique on nap.
      3. Try DILD, reality check

      (4)if all that fails, try: https://www.dreamviews.com/introduct...-dreaming.html
      and
      https://www.dreamviews.com/induction...ds-techniques/

      Oh and you asked me how I do the Raduga technique. I have not done it for a long time. While I did it exactly as he says in the book. I don't follow it 100% But the closer you are to 100%, the higher the success. I only do techniques I found DV (this site) now.

      Good luck pirate king!
      Last edited by ZenLD; 03-29-2019 at 04:39 AM. Reason: added more DV links cuz ima awesome

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      I've decided that I'm going to try the techniques in the summer period. The reason being is that I'm busy with school and have to watch a relative on weekends. When summer break comes I'll reply back then.

      Thanks.

    22. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by luffy28 View Post
      I've decided that I'm going to try the techniques in the summer period. The reason being is that I'm busy with school and have to watch a relative on weekends. When summer break comes I'll reply back then.

      Thanks.
      Well.

      Reality check, like looking at your hands takes almost no time... And if you ever listened to audio of Sensei, he still practiced LD with 2 kids, 2 hours of sleep.

      But I hope you will try again and succeed one day.

      Best,

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      Hi,
      I'm going to attempt the techniques this Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday since I don't have school the two latter days. I wanted to know what Raduga means by this

      Phantom wiggling (movement)
      "Training. To train the technique of phantom wiggling, relax a hand for several minutes while lying down, eyes closed. Then, aggressively envision the following hand movements, without moving any muscles, for two to three minutes each: rotating, up-down, left-right, extending the fingers and drawing the fingers together, clenching and unclenching a fist." This is page 182 of his pdf book.

      I don't know what he means when he says "rotating" "extending the fingers" "and drawing the fingers together"? While I wait for a possible response I'm going to practice what I understand.

      Thanks.

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