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    Thread: "Forced" Lucid Dreaming under the Guise of Shamanic Journeying?

    1. #1
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      "Forced" Lucid Dreaming under the Guise of Shamanic Journeying?

      Hey fellow dreamers! I'm going to share a couple different experiences I've had regarding Shamanic Journeying and ask a few (or more) questions to get some different perspectives.

      A little background on me - I was introduced to Shamanic Journeying about two years ago at a summer camp where I worked. Aside from lucid dreaming off and on throughout my life, I have not had any sort of experience I would call out of the ordinary involving everyday waking consciousness. I am not affiliated with any religious group. I am a firm believer in direct experiences, meaning I hesitate to invest belief (maybe there's a better word than "belief") in anything I have not experienced directly. For example, I've never had any form of an OBE. I am very much aware that there is SO MUCH that exists outside the scope of my five senses, but without that confirmation that comes from experience, I don't know how to gauge it, if that makes any sense.

      That being said, I've had a few different experiences regarding Shamanic Journeying that have been making me ask questions I've never asked before. I'll put them below in spoilers for the sake of convenience.


      Spoiler for First Experience:



      Spoiler for Second Experience:



      Spoiler for Going Alone:


      So to explain the title of this thread, these experiences felt and reacted similarly to lucid dreaming in my experience. If I tried, I could change the environment. And some things seemed generated, but not fully detailed. Maybe this is because it wasn't an entirely formed dream, I suspect.

      Here are my questions:

      (Impossible for anyone to answer) How real was all this? How much was generated by my own mind, and how much (if any) could be from some outside source? Some of the elaborate experiences I've heard from the other first timers make me question it all even more.

      Does anyone here have experience with Shamanic Journeying in this fashion or any other kind?

      Is this just a forced kind of dreaming; manifesting the dream state through sheer focus and attention? That's surely what it felt like at times.



      I'm not sure there's any way someone else can validate my experiences, but I'd love to hear your thoughts and personal experiences on this.
      Please excuse my noobishness, as this is completely undiscovered territory for me.
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      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      I tried something that felt instinctual; something I would do in a lucid dream. I turned around and walked backwards with my eyes closed through the cinder block.
      Just as an aside, that sounds like a clever technique for getting through barriers of various kinds in LDs! Seems like it could work really well.

      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      Here are my questions:

      (Impossible for anyone to answer) How real was all this? How much was generated by my own mind, and how much (if any) could be from some outside source? Some of the elaborate experiences I've heard from the other first timers make me question it all even more.
      If it happened to me, I'd assume it was generated by my own mind, unless there was good reason to believe that maybe it wasn't. For example, if the experience seemed to provide real information about things I couldn't possibly have known about beforehand.

      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      Does anyone here have experience with Shamanic Journeying in this fashion or any other kind?
      I don't, unfortunately.

      By the way, I assume there weren't any consciousness-altering substances involved in this, right? But since it's "shamanic" maybe there were. Because shamans are known to utilize such substances from time to time.

      Also, any idea what the significance is of the 100 BPM drum beat? Is that known to be a good beat frequency for inducing this kind of experience?

      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      Is this just a forced kind of dreaming; manifesting the dream state through sheer focus and attention? That's surely what it felt like at times.
      That seems like a plausible theory, but--as you pointed out--it's impossible to know for sure.
      Last edited by Zthread; 06-20-2019 at 10:00 PM.
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    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zthread View Post

      By the way, I assume there weren't any consciousness-altering substances involved in this, right? But since it's "shamanic" maybe there were. Because shamans are known to utilize such substances from time to time.

      Also, any idea what the significance is of the 100 BPM drum beat? Is that known to be a good beat frequency for inducing this kind of experience?
      No substances whatsoever. The only thing ingested beforehand was a load of rice and beans cooked over the campfire.

      I vaguely remember there being an explanation as to why specifically 100 BPM was used, but it was rooted in mysticism and was more of a "because the Native Americans did it this way" kind of answer. I'm heavily paraphrasing, but that's the gist.


      As you mentioned, I've been trying to pay attention to my own experiences and the stories I hear for any kind of real information or a way to validate this as being outside the mind, but I have yet to find any.
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      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      No substances whatsoever. The only thing ingested beforehand was a load of rice and beans cooked over the campfire.
      OK, didn't think so. OTOH, who knows what "herbs" might have been added to those rice and beans?!

      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      I vaguely remember there being an explanation as to why specifically 100 BPM was used, but it was rooted in mysticism and was more of a "because the Native Americans did it this way" kind of answer. I'm heavily paraphrasing, but that's the gist.
      Native Americans probably have lots of experience with what works and what doesn't. Different tempos definitely have different effects on us:

      https://sonicscoop.com/2014/06/19/th...po-affects-us/

      They found that from the 1940s until our current decade, the average tempo of our most popular songs fluctuated no more than 5 bpm, hovering between 117 bpm to 122 bpm.
      What's best for popular songs might not be best for inducing mystical experiences. Could be that 100 BPM works best for shamanic journeying. And maybe for hypnosis? In meditation, I wonder if different mantra repetition frequencies have different effects. Probably.

      Quote Originally Posted by anti_nation View Post
      As you mentioned, I've been trying to pay attention to my own experiences and the stories I hear for any kind of real information or a way to validate this as being outside the mind, but I have yet to find any.
      Would be great to find that, if it's there. But whether it is or isn't, the technique still seems really powerful.

      BTW, what kind of summer camp was that?! Seems like it must have been a pretty cool one!
      Last edited by Zthread; 06-21-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zthread View Post
      Would be great to find that, if it's there. But whether it is or isn't, the technique still seems really powerful.

      BTW, what kind of summer camp was that?! Seems like it must have been a pretty cool one!
      I still have yet to get the hang of it. It requires lots of willpower and a strong attention span, both of which I'm not the greatest with. I've been casually watching some youtube videos on the subject to see if there are easier methods than the way I was taught.

      https://youtu.be/CksLIMTLUOQ

      He mentions near the end of the video something about Journeying correlating to "dream time" but doesn't expand on that thought.


      It's just a regular old summer camp! It's the people that make it what it as unique as it is!
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    6. #6
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      Was browsing a bit and stumbled across this thread:

      "How to Train Your Imagination"

      https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...ead-guide.html

      This sounds incredibly similar to what I've been talking about here.
      I think it just might be the explanation.
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