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    Thread: Is it immoral for an SDer to cause nightmares?

    1. #1
      Member ZenithofThings's Avatar
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      Is it immoral for an SDer to cause nightmares?

      Assuming SD is possible, is it immoral/wrong for an SDer to intentionally cause people to have nightmares?

      I don't believe in the existence of objective morality, ultimately it all seems subjective. Though I'm not looking to get into a deep philosophical discussion on morality, would prefer to focus on how people feel personally on this specific issue.

      From my perspective the answer would depend on factors like the motivation to cause nightmares, consent, intensity of the nightmares, and lasting negative effects for the victim.

      So someone who just wanted to do it for the lulz, with no concern for consent, who crafted the most terrible nightmares imaginable including things like false awakenings, the dark side of religious themes, warping perception of time to draw out the torture for thousands+ years, and causing severe trauma resulting in permanent unforseen significant changes in the victim, could easily be seen as immoral.

      But what if consent were given, what if there were positive motivations, etc?

      As an example, what if the dreamer was attempting to prove to themself that SD works via a secret email verification, attempting to increase chances of success by increasing dream recall in the victim, by blasting the email at them during a relatively brief and minor terror and jump scaring the victim awake with instructions to send a log of the dream to that email?

      Or for another example, I myself was awoken and began lucid dreaming as a direct result of trauma caused by a year long persistent childhood nightmare. In hindsight, it was both a curse and a blessing which I'm ultimately grateful for, with long lasting pros and cons. If I could choose between going back in time and preventing the nightmares, or going back and crafting the nightmares, giving a sort of retroactive consent on behalf of my former self, I'd probably craft the nightmares despite how traumatic they were at the time.

      I've heard that other skilled natural LDers were also awoken by childhood nightmares, though I'm not sure how true this is. Maybe I'll start a thread on that topic. While I'd be willing to subject my childhood self to such a thing thanks to the pseudo-consent and knowing the long term repercussions, I wouldn't want to put anyone else through the same thing, due to the consent issue and not knowing how the victim would be affected.

      That's some of my own thoughts. I'm curious to hear what other people think about this. If you could choose to go through traumatic childhood nightmares in exchange for eventually overcoming those nightmares and achieving things like nigh 100% lucidity rate and godlike levels of dream control, would you want to have such an experience? Would you want to experience your own personal heavens if it meant first crawling your way up through your own personal hells?

    2. #2
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      I believe there was previous topic on site (forgot terminology..perhaps nightstalker?). I'd view (creating nightmare) as a curse. Or possibly spell..incantation? Anyway there's intent to harm. Also some believe if you cast spell it can come back to you many fold. Like you achieve something extraordinary..get ready for extraordinary consequences. As far as gift being justified. (or only targeting bad people) like t.v. show, Dexter..I'm not sure, opinions vary.
      Last edited by PrisonPlanet; 10-13-2019 at 11:11 PM.

    3. #3
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      sivason's Avatar
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      I think if they did not consent, then it is akin to rape.
      I would go through my childhood nightmares just for the insight it would give. If it would increase my skills all the better.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.

      "Instruction in Dream Yoga"

    4. #4
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      If you have the ability to go into a persons dream. Is it immoral to do so and do fucked up things to said person? If you need to ask that makes me wonder if you are some kind of sociopath that has no empathy towards others and no sense of right or wrong.

      It's like asking if it's immoral to do fucked up shit to people in waking life too, even if you are sure there is no law against it and you won't go to jail.
      sivason likes this.

    5. #5
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      Well If childhood nightmares are caused by something real (like rape or physical abuse) NO ONE wishes to indulge in fantasy..since there's no actual prize awaiting. With that said I doubt hosts intentions were malicious perhaps just not completely thought out.
      Last edited by PrisonPlanet; 11-01-2019 at 03:53 AM.

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