Thread: Any dreamsharer here in 2020?

Hey, will PM you in a bit. Was able to get into contact with Nomad and Man of Shred a few years back, got some interesting insights.

I don't know, but I'd be interested in trying. This fascinates me.

Waking Nomad had an accident and difficult recovery, and didn't post as much after that. Man of Shred went through some changes also, including a phase where he saw lucid dreaming as being evil, and I don't know where he wound up after that.

Since shared dreaming involves a degree of direct contact with other people's minds, I think it is dangerous in some of the same ways that personality cults, obsessive love affairs, and mobs are dangerous. Maybe its also dangerous in the same way that conjuring up demons could be dangerous, because when you open the door in that part of your mind, you may not be able to totally control what insidious spirit finds its way in and makes a summer home there. The story of Icarus is worth considering. On the other hand, since our capacity to touch people, muses, and fates is an essential part of what we are, it seems to me to be unhealthy to be too afraid of it.

I guess I'm still up for experiments, but I can't say I'm really interested. I still have questions I want answers to, and problems I want to solve if possible, but I'm not seeing how shared dreaming gets me there. If it is important to someone to know whether its real, maybe I can help prove it for them though. What I call shared dreaming isn't quite the same as what the others called shared dreaming, because my interpretation of the experience is much different, but I think the essential elements are the same.

Originally Posted by Therome

Hey, will PM you in a bit. Was able to get into contact with Nomad and Man of Shred a few years back, got some interesting insights.

sure! pm me - or we can talk about it here as a kind of - where are we now/what we know now - kind of thing?

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

I don't know, but I'd be interested in trying. This fascinates me.

It demands a lot of dedication! I have a dream group I have been part of for a few years now, it means posting your dj to each other everyday and intent on dreamsharing everyday...

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Waking Nomad had an accident and difficult recovery, and didn't post as much after that. Man of Shred went through some changes also, including a phase where he saw lucid dreaming as being evil, and I don't know where he wound up after that.

Since shared dreaming involves a degree of direct contact with other people's minds, I think it is dangerous in some of the same ways that personality cults, obsessive love affairs, and mobs are dangerous. Maybe its also dangerous in the same way that conjuring up demons could be dangerous, because when you open the door in that part of your mind, you may not be able to totally control what insidious spirit finds its way in and makes a summer home there. The story of Icarus is worth considering. On the other hand, since our capacity to touch people, muses, and fates is an essential part of what we are, it seems to me to be unhealthy to be too afraid of it.

I guess I'm still up for experiments, but I can't say I'm really interested. I still have questions I want answers to, and problems I want to solve if possible, but I'm not seeing how shared dreaming gets me there. If it is important to someone to know whether its real, maybe I can help prove it for them though. What I call shared dreaming isn't quite the same as what the others called shared dreaming, because my interpretation of the experience is much different, but I think the essential elements are the same.

Yeah, I ve spoken to both Nomad and Raven, Nomad has a group on FB he tried to start up again, though he has a family now and finds it difficult to give it the time it needs. He calls the place 'lucid city' and it's set on the moon. Raven is still around, Hukif is part of the dream group I am in, yeah, and man of Shred is not really interested in it anymore.

Personally speaking I love shared dreaming, I ve never been at the same level as Nomad or Raven, but when I do get connections it's the most amazing and gratifying thing. It creates a whole new range of textures for dreams and shows so many new and interesting possibilities. Of course you have to be completely open with the person you are dreaming with, and be willing for anything to happen. Could you explain a little more how you understand what shared dreaming is? I would be very much interested to know!

I'm still experimenting with shared dreaming and shared out of body experiments, but I haven't found any proofs of reality in shared experiences yet.

I have concentrated my effort on my closest acquaintances. Primarily toward my soulmate, brother and one of daughters. Nearly everytime I manage to leave body or to go WILD I try to connect to them.

There is nothing evil in this. Only if you try to do it with wrong intentions.

Originally Posted by Psionik

There is nothing evil in this. Only if you try to do it with wrong intentions.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a cliche for a reason. One thing that I've learned is that something can still be wrong, as measured by the consequences that will inevitably follow, even if your conscience doesn't warn you. Also, if someone warns you about something and you arrogantly blow it off without due consideration, then your intentions aren't entirely perfect anyway.

A confounding issue is that some people have mixed shared dreaming with drugs, and the drugs were a big part of what got them into trouble. But I haven't done any drugs at all, and it still isn't clear to me what the end of my story is. I've had some pretty disturbing dream experiences involving serious real-life outcomes, and it isn't entirely clear to me what I'm causing and what I'm merely witnessing. In terms of lucidity and objectivity, I think my mental health is better than most people's, but its also clear that I'm not entirely in control of my own subconscious, and I don't know if that's good, notwithstanding that its common.

Also, I can't see how you can be so sure that there's nothing evil involved, if you haven't had enough success with it to prove that its even real.

Originally Posted by floatinghead

Could you explain a little more how you understand what shared dreaming is? I would be very much interested to know!

My understanding is that the picture and sound aspect of the shared dream is for the most part private, not shared. The shared dream 'location' is not a real place in that sense, it is more of a symbol that helps people establish the underlying connection. The nature of that connection, so far as I'm aware, is empathy. You actually become the other person a little bit, you share their mind a little bit. This requires some courage in openness, though I don't think that such courage is always an unqualified virtue. Sometimes such openness is reckless, the psychological equivalent of walking around naked in a bad part of town at night, or intentionally exposing yourself to germs during a pandemic.

Psionik has said he focuses his attempts on people he's already close to and trusts, which makes sense in that regard. I've done most of my experiments with strangers, because it is a lot easier to prove that some information has really been exchanged if you don't know anything about the other person ahead of time. Also, more importantly, when I first meet someone, there is a lot more potential of what has not yet been shared. With people I already know, there's no reason to have the shared dream, because there's no substantial new content to be shared. For the most part it is the potential for new sharing that creates the dream, not an act of will to have the dream. I have had a few connected dreams with one of my sisters, but she has lived thousands of miles from me since she was about 4 years old, so its a mixed example in that regard.

For me, the inspiration behind a dream is primarily a desire to find answers to personal philosophical problems. That's what turns my crank at a relatively deep level. So if there's something about the other person which can teach me something that's relevant to my questions, and they're open and there's a compatible motive on their end, then the dream is most likely to happen. Consciously I don't do anything to make it happen, I just decide what the topic should be, and it happens the next night or it doesn't.

Dream premonitions are very closely related to whatever reality makes shared dreaming work. Actually, I started off having a lot of premonitions, and noticed that there's always a shared element to such dreams, then I started focusing more on that. The connection in the dream is outside of time in some sense. So it is not necessary for both people to be dreaming at the same time, and I never attempt to coordinate that, I just aim to have the dream on the same night so that it doesn't get mixed up as much with other dream interactions with other people.

Other people emphasize other aspects of 'shared dreaming', and don't describe it the way I do, but that's what it is for me.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Waking Nomad had an accident and difficult recovery, and didn't post as much after that. Man of Shred went through some changes also, including a phase where he saw lucid dreaming as being evil, and I don't know where he wound up after that.

Since shared dreaming involves a degree of direct contact with other people's minds, I think it is dangerous in some of the same ways that personality cults, obsessive love affairs, and mobs are dangerous. Maybe its also dangerous in the same way that conjuring up demons could be dangerous, because when you open the door in that part of your mind, you may not be able to totally control what insidious spirit finds its way in and makes a summer home there. The story of Icarus is worth considering. On the other hand, since our capacity to touch people, muses, and fates is an essential part of what we are, it seems to me to be unhealthy to be too afraid of it.

You're very right about the dangers. I never took them seriously. But I want to share what happened to me last night.

As I was falling asleep I remember seeing a vivid image of Ozzy Osbourne, long black hair, crystal blue eyes. He was staring at me evilly, with electricity around his fingertips, possibly a crystal globe in front of him. I got the impression he was "casting a spell." I said to him "I only share my energy with good spirits. Be gone - you are not welcome here." I normally don't even believe in the presence of evil spirits, but this startled me.

Later that night, I was sleeping next to my daughter. I was having fitful sleep about "The Shining," as I've been reading the novel. I don't remember much, except Jack Nicholson's face in the broken door, and then this strong urge to bite down hard. I did so, and woke up with my daughter screaming, and her little pinky in my mouth. Oh my god. I thought. She's okay, but it hurt her a lot. Today, she still has marks on her finger.

If you don't know the reference, Ozzy is known for biting the head off of a bat on stage. Is that not weird?

Originally Posted by floatinghead

It demands a lot of dedication! I have a dream group I have been part of for a few years now, it means posting your dj to each other everyday and intent on dreamsharing everyday...

Sign me up. I have a whole summer vacation to practice this before work starts again. I am out of practice, I know this. Work took a lot out of me this year. However, I've been working on improving my recall and lucidity (only been off work for a week now). Last night I had a few seconds of lucidity in REM. So that's progress. I'm getting back into it, slowly but surely.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

My understanding is that the picture and sound aspect of the shared dream is for the most part private, not shared. The shared dream 'location' is not a real place in that sense, it is more of a symbol that helps people establish the underlying connection. The nature of that connection, so far as I'm aware, is empathy. You actually become the other person a little bit, you share their mind a little bit. This requires some courage in openness, though I don't think that such courage is always an unqualified virtue. Sometimes such openness is reckless, the psychological equivalent of walking around naked in a bad part of town at night, or intentionally exposing yourself to germs during a pandemic.

Other people emphasize other aspects of 'shared dreaming', and don't describe it the way I do, but that's what it is for me.

I've had experiences where I've touched the edge of my dream world (like a bubble/dome), and communicated with another's dream world, while lucid. I don't think they were lucid at the time, though. That was cool. Was unable to confirm the validity of it.

Also, I play a lot in the trance state (HI state, in between dreams and such), which is all auditory for me. Rarely visuals. Mostly thought impressions of varying loudness. However, in this realm, as long as I'm not too sleepy, I can communicate with others I have emotional connections with. Sort of like mind reading. (( EDIT: I want to express that I am not convinced that everything I hear is true. In fact, I've had confirmed failures as well. )) I had a friend a work who could do the same - although he was much more visual; less auditory. We did confirm picking up on each others thoughts, and it was truly amazing. However, our emotional connection wasn't strong enough (on my end anyways) to make it a regular habit. Unfortunately, he no longer works where I work, so my telepathy partner is gone.

Problems arise when I'm communicating with multiple people, or when I'm too tired and start getting sloppy. Messages can get mixed up, and also your imagination can "fill in the blanks" in ways you want it to. This is a problem, seems to happen to me when I'm sleepy, and then I get messages like I did not say that.


I swear... you either devote your life to this subject, or run far, far away. Because sanity? That's a luxury when you're venturing in the complete unknown.

As a possible point of clarification....When I say that there's some danger in openness, for the most part I don't mean that the person one is being open to is 'bad' or dangerous. It's the thoughts and influences that get passed around through the open connection that are a problem. The group-think can somewhat of take on a mind of its own, with other parts present that you didn't realize you invited. In this regard it is very much like biological diseases. You don't practice modesty and good hygiene because you're cowardly or hate other people, you do it because otherwise stuff gets amplified and spread that can hurt other people.

It's nice to see all you veteran members posting again; I hope this conversation continues!

As for me: Though shared dreaming has firmly burrowed its way into my general dreaming work, my time with it is focused more on non-lucid groupmind phenomena, which I'm pretty sure is not what you guys are looking for... still, excellent conversation, and good luck!

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a cliche for a reason. One thing that I've learned is that something can still be wrong, as measured by the consequences that will inevitably follow, even if your conscience doesn't warn you. Also, if someone warns you about something and you arrogantly blow it off without due consideration, then your intentions aren't entirely perfect anyway.

If someone warns me of something I try for years without the outcome I'm warned about- isn't it foolish to jump on the others suggestion? It is as if I'm constructor of steam engine and some ludite warns me that steam engine is wrong, because it isn't alive, because it will harm someone... Only because he doesn't understand nature of machine and fears what he don't understand. My experiments suggests that there are no shared dreams. That is not stopping me to try again and again. Simply because I'm curious.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

A confounding issue is that some people have mixed shared dreaming with drugs, and the drugs were a big part of what got them into trouble. But I haven't done any drugs at all, and it still isn't clear to me what the end of my story is. I've had some pretty disturbing dream experiences involving serious real-life outcomes, and it isn't entirely clear to me what I'm causing and what I'm merely witnessing. In terms of lucidity and objectivity, I think my mental health is better than most people's, but its also clear that I'm not entirely in control of my own subconscious, and I don't know if that's good, notwithstanding that its common.

Also, I can't see how you can be so sure that there's nothing evil involved, if you haven't had enough success with it to prove that its even real.

I'm not using drugs. It was suggested by others that vitamin B6 or galantamine will help me - they didn't and therefore I'm not using that. Others suggested to use hallucinogenic mushrooms- I wouldn't even try to use that. I want my experiences as lucid and as clean as possible.
When I'm travelling (OBE) I'm opening myself wide t input from observed surroundings. I never had problems with that. Some people suggested that I will get possessed. Over 35 years of OBE training, no possession attempt detected.

Originally Posted by Psionik

I'm not using drugs. It was suggested by others that vitamin B6 or galantamine will help me - they didn't and therefore I'm not using that. Others suggested to use hallucinogenic mushrooms- I wouldn't even try to use that. I want my experiences as lucid and as clean as possible.
When I'm travelling (OBE) I'm opening myself wide t input from observed surroundings. I never had problems with that. Some people suggested that I will get possessed. Over 35 years of OBE training, no possession attempt detected.

2 things -

1. Just as a tangent... the only supplement I have had genuine success with is Mugwort herb (used in a tea). It almost always makes my dreams more vivid, which, in turn, makes me more likely to recognize that I am dreaming. I use it sparingly, though, because it often has higher than FDA approved levels of heavy metals (lead, arsenic, etc.). In fact, it was my dream narrator that told me to not abuse it, for that reason. I suspect, if you're careful, a Wormwood tea (what they use to make absinthe) would also work - but it's more dangerous. Never tried it personally. I would never use drugs, either.

2. I think the deal with possession has to do with your frequency. Your vibration. Notice, from earlier post, when I'm reading "The Shining," I am opening myself up to the vibration of fear. This causes me to have nightmares, and even a weird experience that I can't honestly explain (see my earlier post in this thread). The Ozzy connection with biting my daughter in real life while dreaming is just too much for me to dismiss as coincidence. But this doesn't usually happen - I feel like the book altered my normal frequency, and possibly opened me up to lower vibration energies. IDK, but it's weird, and I'm keeping an open mind on it.

Also, I have witnessed someone who I can only say was possessed by something/someone. It was weird. I don't want to go into it, because it's a long story, and it's personal, but after seeing that, I can't deny the possibility that possession is a real occurence.

Psoinik, In summary, you have 35 years of experience suggesting that shared dreaming is not dangerous if you never succeed in having a clearly shared dream. That's fine for you, but I think it would be irresponsible to suggest to other people that shared-dreaming is harmless based on your experience with not shared-dreaming.

How about trying to share a dream with someone you may know personally like a sibling or relative with clear attention instead of some stranger that may not be too comfortable or have you best interest with this experiment?

Originally Posted by Lang

How about trying to share a dream with someone you may know personally like a sibling or relative with clear attention instead of some stranger that may not be too comfortable or have you best interest with this experiment?

In the OP's defense, I'm convinced it's hard to find willing and dedicated dreaming partners. If they don't outright think you're practicing something occult (like some family members I know ), they may just not really want to do it / are lax in their efforts. Honestly, how many lucid dreamer friends IRL do most of us have? And, what's more, - and this is the heart of it - there may not be enough energy to make that dream happen, without ... how to put this ... forcing it. Pushing it. You know? It needs to come naturally, with people who are excited about it. That excitement fuels the lucidity. The idea of a dream sharing group... oh man, just the idea of it is exciting.

Edit: I mean, I guess you could practice this one-sided. But it's an uphill battle is all I'm saying.

It's funny you said that, while I was doing the dishes, that same thing popped into mind but, I guess I was going through more of the possible outcomes in my head of this discussion may go...

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

2 things -

1. Just as a tangent... the only supplement I have had genuine success with is Mugwort herb (used in a tea). It almost always makes my dreams more vivid, which, in turn, makes me more likely to recognize that I am dreaming. I use it sparingly, though, because it often has higher than FDA approved levels of heavy metals (lead, arsenic, etc.). In fact, it was my dream narrator that told me to not abuse it, for that reason. I suspect, if you're careful, a Wormwood tea (what they use to make absinthe) would also work - but it's more dangerous. Never tried it personally. I would never use drugs, either.

2. I think the deal with possession has to do with your frequency. Your vibration. Notice, from earlier post, when I'm reading "The Shining," I am opening myself up to the vibration of fear. This causes me to have nightmares, and even a weird experience that I can't honestly explain (see my earlier post in this thread). The Ozzy connection with biting my daughter in real life while dreaming is just too much for me to dismiss as coincidence. But this doesn't usually happen - I feel like the book altered my normal frequency, and possibly opened me up to lower vibration energies. IDK, but it's weird, and I'm keeping an open mind on it.

Also, I have witnessed someone who I can only say was possessed by something/someone. It was weird. I don't want to go into it, because it's a long story, and it's personal, but after seeing that, I can't deny the possibility that possession is a real occurence.

I almost never vibrate with any frequency. I keep my mind blank, quiet, serene and therefore sensitive to smallest inputs. Thoughts generate unwanted inputs. Emotions generate unwanted inputs.

I was actually attacked by a fellow dreamer friend before, but we both realized it was an accident - he didn't know it was me at the time It sounds like not much has really progressed since Raven and Nomad (and friends) had adventures back in the early '10's . That being said I have had lots of experiences that have confirmed shared dreaming for me (and seen both Raven and Nomad on the dream plane a few times as well) and by a beautiful synchronicity someone reached out to me just yesterday who does seem to have the same ability as Raven and Nomad had (actually even more so) The main issue with actually DOING shared dreaming is that, first you need to be a pretty competent lucid dreamer - and then you need to actually not be skeptical - so much time is wasted just by only talking about if it can be real or not lol

Originally Posted by Psionik

I almost never vibrate with any frequency. I keep my mind blank, quiet, serene and therefore sensitive to smallest inputs. Thoughts generate unwanted inputs. Emotions generate unwanted inputs.

Hmm.. I think emotions are what make us human. Learning how to feel all of the painful ones without suppressing or pushing them away opens us up to all of the wonderful ones, too. Either that, or I read too much Brene Brown

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Hmm.. I think emotions are what make us human. Learning how to feel all of the painful ones without suppressing or pushing them away opens us up to all of the wonderful ones, too. Either that, or I read too much Brene Brown

What is making me is not emotion. When I concentrate into myself, into the core of my being, there is an consciousness there. Emotionless, existing out of the time, observing. Sometimes not agreeing with the situations, sometimes agreeing. The emotions are cover which makes the vision coloured... enclosing the reality into something else, less real. Over that are common thoughts. Those are like cry, those can completely stop the clear sense of my innermost self.

It feels almost as if I'm schizophrenic when describing this. Because when I feel into this, it is as if there are three selves formed into one body. Rational, emotional and innermost one. Rational must stop to cry loud, emotional must balance into serenity and inner-one can glue together all three then. In the end there is only one.

Originally Posted by Psionik

What is making me is not emotion. When I concentrate into myself, into the core of my being, there is an consciousness there. Emotionless, existing out of the time, observing. Sometimes not agreeing with the situations, sometimes agreeing. The emotions are cover which makes the vision coloured... enclosing the reality into something else, less real. Over that are common thoughts. Those are like cry, those can completely stop the clear sense of my innermost self.

It feels almost as if I'm schizophrenic when describing this. Because when I feel into this, it is as if there are three selves formed into one body. Rational, emotional and innermost one. Rational must stop to cry loud, emotional must balance into serenity and inner-one can glue together all three then. In the end there is only one.

You're completely right about the inner observer; the true self - absolutely. However, there's nothing wrong with having an identity; having emotions. Or even embracing that constructed identity. It's a healthy and beautiful thing.

After all, emotions are the part of you that connect you to other humans. The source of your capacity for empathy. Without emotions having an important space in your life, there may be a loss in being able to understand other people. Because the only way you can truly understand another's experience, is to have walked it yourself. To have felt it yourself. And the result? Love. You will love those you understand. Honestly, it's not something I can really explain. I can tell you, however, you'll likely think you already understand if I do. But you'd be understanding with your mind.. and not your heart. And that's the difference.

It's interesting that you suggest (correct me if I'm wrong) that emotions make things less real for you. To me, they make things more real. It's like... playing on hardcore mode of a video game. YKWIM? You have more to lose when you allow yourself to feel. But also, more to gain. And it's a hell of a lot more like LIVING to feel your life as you go along.

o/ I don't want to live a neverending life, I just want to feel alive, while I'm here... o/

I said it probably too strongly.
The core has no emotions but you have second layer where emotions are present. If you balance them and make them like very slowly moving water then you can feel both the inner self and emotional layer. It is very mild. Loud inner dialogue of third layer is overlapping this too much. Therefore that thought process needs to be quieted too. But it is possible to join all of this into one unity. In comparison to normal state of mind it looks like very dull experience. But when you are experiencing it is like pure joy. I can feel all encompassing love but it is very mild, unattached.

My normal astral travel mind state is close to that state I had during NDE. Blank mind, observer state. No space for fear. Very mild emotions. For mental projection stability it must be even milder. Very high dimensions require losing the ego. The highest I got, there wasn't left much of me which I'm in this state... I had very mild feeling of self. Nothing else reminded. This is hard to describe in this state. It is very different from this state of mind. All the descriptions pale against the experience.

Originally Posted by Psionik

I said it probably too strongly.
The core has no emotions but you have second layer where emotions are present. If you balance them and make them like very slowly moving water then you can feel both the inner self and emotional layer. It is very mild. Loud inner dialogue of third layer is overlapping this too much. Therefore that thought process needs to be quieted too. But it is possible to join all of this into one unity. In comparison to normal state of mind it looks like very dull experience. But when you are experiencing it is like pure joy. I can feel all encompassing love but it is very mild, unattached.

My normal astral travel mind state is close to that state I had during NDE. Blank mind, observer state. No space for fear. Very mild emotions. For mental projection stability it must be even milder. Very high dimensions require losing the ego. The highest I got, there wasn't left much of me which I'm in this state... I had very mild feeling of self. Nothing else reminded. This is hard to describe in this state. It is very different from this state of mind. All the descriptions pale against the experience.

Interesting. I've never traveled to any higher dimensions that I know of, although once I asked in a lucid dream to feel unconditional love. I was taken, up, up, up, I could see my silver cord dangling down to my body in the bed. My chest felt so full, like I would burst. I started getting scared and asked to be put back down. I said "I still have things to do as a human." That was a cool one.

I think with emotions, it's okay to feel them at any intensity (in fact, that's not really in our full control, some of that is in the anatomy of our brains). It's how you react (or even better, respond) that matters. In fact, emotions are so important because they are messengers that keep us in balance with life. They keep us true to ourselves. The stronger they are, the stronger the message. We just have to be conscious of them and base our actions on rationality, too.