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    Thread: Why Beyond Dreaming is placed in NLD forum?

    1. #1
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      Question Why Beyond Dreaming is placed in NLD forum?

      This is a question I always wanted to ask. Are Out of body experiences and Astral Projection considered Non Lucidity Moments for them to be placed in this subForum?

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      Astral projections certainly may be non-lucid, and probably mostly are. Out-of-body experiences probably tend to happen in the waking state, so the experience wouldn't really be a consequence of lucidity. But I'm just guessing at the reasoning here; I was not present, when the site was created.
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      So ... is this the real universe, or is it just a preliminary study?

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      Astral projections certainly may be non-lucid, and probably mostly are.
      I will strongly disagree here. In all my AP's I'm fully lucid, on another hand if you are not lucid in yours, this is a totally different matter, that only question if you really have one yourself.

      Out-of-body experiences probably tend to happen in the waking state, so the experience wouldn't really be a consequence of lucidity.
      Yet they are placed in the dream section
      Last edited by michael79; 09-30-2020 at 10:00 PM.

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      Most of my AP's are generated from lucid dreams, so they are lucid. But every once in a while I wake up from a non-lucid experience which on further reflection I classify as an AP.
      So ... is this the real universe, or is it just a preliminary study?

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      But every once in a while I wake up from a non-lucid experience which on further reflection I classify as an AP.
      That only can happen if you at one point forget that you were lucid during the astral projection and only later recollect it or you experienced lapses of consciousness, which only confirms that AP's experiences are fully lucidity moments.
      Last edited by michael79; 09-30-2020 at 10:24 PM.

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      Yikes, a big old time member says the following:
      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff777 View Post
      If Dreamviews were a person, Beyond Dreaming would be the anus region. I think this person started this because beyond dreaming is largely seen by other members as a wart on the forum full of nonsensical ideologies, dogmas and beliefs. I support lucid dreaming to explore spiritual purposes as long as it doesn't evolve into a cult.
      So what, was the "Beyond Dreaming" only made for the laugh?

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      In Beyond Dreaming subforum rules (https://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dr...e-read%2A.html) it seems to imply that Beyond Dreaming is for posts about Out of body experiences and Astral Projection in the context of dreaming. Posts about Out of body experiences and Astral Projection not in the context of dreaming should go in the Inner Sanctum Forum.

      I don't think Dreamviews wants to assert whether Out of body experiences and Astral Projection are related to sleep/dreams or not, as this is a controversial topic and they want to be welcoming to all points of view. To avoid making this assertion, they must have both a sleep/dream forum and a non-sleep/non-dream forum to post about these topics.

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      Or they can just make Beyond Dreaming a separate Forum section.
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      Astral projection, which I distinguish from OBE, which for me is a lot less lucid, is one of the most lucid experiences I've ever had, waking or sleeping.

      I love that Jeff777 quote. Though if DreamViews is a person, it has been in a coma for the past 5 years.
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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      Astral projection, which I distinguish from OBE, which for me is a lot less lucid, is one of the most lucid experiences I've ever had, waking or sleeping.

      I love that Jeff777 quote. Though if DreamViews is a person, it has been in a coma for the past 5 years.
      Can you link that quote, please?

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      Scroll up five posts.

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      In the quote, next to Jeff777's name is the View Post button, which links to the page where the quoted post is.

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      Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
      In the quote, next to Jeff777's name is the View Post button, which links to the page where the quoted post is.
      Thanks Guys!

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowofwind View Post
      I love that Jeff777 quote. Though if DreamViews is a person, it has been in a coma for the past 5 years.
      So Dreamviews is in Vegetative state

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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      So Dreamviews is in Vegetative state
      That's a sad thought. You seem to like to talk about that. Maybe that this is a good thought to post in Talk to staff or something like that? I mean in the end, it would be the staff to decide if the forum is dead or not. The way I see the forum on the surface may look dead but, if you look a little closer, it is very much alive.

      Back on topic:
      As Dolphin said it was in the rules. If people think it's in the wrong place, you can try taking it to talk to the staff.

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      Quote Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer View Post
      That's a sad thought. You seem to like to talk about that.
      I don't know what you are talking about

      This thread is about Beyond Dreaming section and where is the right place for it! Forum Vitality status is not for me to decide, but all users have the freedom to talk about it, whether you like it or not!

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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      I don't know what you are talking about

      This thread is about Beyond Dreaming section and where is the right place for it! Forum Vitality status is not for me to decide, but all users have the freedom to talk about it, whether you like it or not!
      No, it was just a suggestion. I also wasn't disagree what people were saying.
      Last edited by HumbleDreamer; 10-07-2020 at 10:18 PM.

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      Well, I think Beyond Dreaming is in the right place, for what that's worth. Lucid Dreaming (REM phase lucid dreaming) gets a section, as it is the main topic of this forum. Then, Sleep and Dreams is a very honorable section also, as there is no lucid dreaming without it.

      Beyond Dreaming also includes non-rem sleep and lucidity, so it is not as if it were exclusively reserved to non-lucid dreaming at all.

      Even otherwise, there is still no definition anyone here seems to be able to agree on regarding what astral projection or OBE really is other than they are experiences during sleep. I would argue neither require lucidity at all like any other type of dream.

      And where is the section about visualization, immersive daydreaming, active imagination and mental temples for that matter?
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    19. #19
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      I don't see anything wrong with Beyond Dreaming. I always took it to mean like Dreaming Plus. It's not a bad thing. It's just we're delving into things that are no longer science. That doesn't make them untrue, but opinions are going to vary widely, and some people don't believe in AP at all. So giving it a place of its own, for those interested, makes sense.

      As to AP and OBE, I agree that these are almost always lucid events. I've never experienced a non lucid one.

      Remember, what you think about, michael79, what you give your precious attention to, that's what you're going to get more of. It's what you are going to notice. Is the forum dead? I don't know. But I do know that I'm going to look on the bright side. There's so much energy here right now, with the tasks, and the book club, and dream sharing, and returning members, and other things. Why be negative when being positive feels so much better? And don't take this the wrong way. I respect your right to do and feel however you want.
      Last edited by MoonageDaydream; 10-07-2020 at 10:46 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      Remember, what you think about, michael79, what you give your precious attention to, that's what you're going to get more of. It's what you are going to notice. Is the forum dead? I don't know. But I do know that I'm going to look on the bright side. There's so much energy here right now, with the tasks, and the book club, and dream sharing, and returning members, and other things. Why be negative when being positive feels so much better? And don't take this the wrong way. I respect your right to do and feel however you want.
      Interesting when I go off topic on threads you or HumbleDreamer like, you are showing me the door, but when you do the same, you expect from me to respect you? If you still want to continue on that thread of thoughts, then you can go to Senseless Banter and knock yourself out, because I never asked such a question in this thread!

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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      Interesting when I go off topic on threads you or HumbleDreamer like, you are showing me the door, but when you do the same, you expect from me to respect you? If you still want to continue on that thread of thoughts, then you can go to Senseless Banter and knock yourself out, because I never asked such a question in this thread!
      I think there's a language thing at play here to be honest. In other occasions I think some of your text could have been misread by others. We're not always at a level of 100% reading comprehension, certainly there are times when I just know I'm misreading what someone is saying, which is also usually when I ask people to rephrase and so on. And really, reading tone in text is difficult and is just guesswork at best, but I guess smilies can change that a bit.

      From my reading of the thread, it just seems like some assumptions were made about what you were saying. Honestly, I don't think that you, michael79, or HumbleDreamer or MoonageDaydream had any ill intent toward one another. I think there was just a string of misreading going on...

      To get back on your original topic; I do think where Beyond Dreaming is placed in the forum is OK, because to me it's about extensions to dreaming or things that relate to dreaming but might not be considered dreaming in the traditional sense. I don't believe that Beyond Dreaming being in this section has to do with it being lucid or non-lucid, but simply that it might not necessarily be one or the other, depending on the context, so under Sleep and Dreams, this makes sense to me.
      Singled out from some of my favourite quotes from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: "Risks of [Planet] flowering: considerable. But rewards of godhood: who can measure? - Usurper Judaa'Maar: Courage: to question."

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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness View Post
      To get back on your original topic; I do think where Beyond Dreaming is placed in the forum is OK, because to me it's about extensions to dreaming or things that relate to dreaming but might not be considered dreaming in the traditional sense. I don't believe that Beyond Dreaming being in this section has to do with it being lucid or non-lucid, but simply that it might not necessarily be one or the other, depending on the context, so under Sleep and Dreams, this makes sense to me.
      Agreed with it's not like the traditional sense.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness View Post
      To get back on your original topic; I do think where Beyond Dreaming is placed in the forum is OK, because to me it's about extensions to dreaming or things that relate to dreaming but might not be considered dreaming in the traditional sense. I don't believe that Beyond Dreaming being in this section has to do with it being lucid or non-lucid, but simply that it might not necessarily be one or the other, depending on the context, so under Sleep and Dreams, this makes sense to me.
      I'm agreeing with you, but I think there is more practical solution to the problem, if you visit LD4all, you will see that their Beyond Dreaming section is a separate forum and that is the best and simple solution.
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      Quote Originally Posted by michael79 View Post
      Interesting when I go off topic on threads you or HumbleDreamer like, you are showing me the door, but when you do the same, you expect from me to respect you? If you still want to continue on that thread of thoughts, then you can go to Senseless Banter and knock yourself out, because I never asked such a question in this thread!
      Hey michael. So you know, I don't mean to disrespect you. Have a nice evening, okay?
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream View Post
      Hey michael. So you know, I don't mean to disrespect you. Have a nice evening, okay?
      That's Okay I guess
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