Originally Posted by Summerlander
That was a lack of imagination on his part (as a philosopher, Comte should've known better than to jump the gun—but still, he was only human and being wrong about one thing doesn't discredit his other great ideas). By the same token, I'd imagine, we shouldn't prematurely say that we will never solve the enigma of consciousness. The awareness phenomena should be explored on an individual as well as collective level. (And we should claim back the term 'collective consciousness' in the sense that the sociologist Emile Durkheim intended.)
Well, I do think that there is something inherent to the enigma of consciousness that makes it unsolvable. Generally, for technology to collect information, it must absorb it.
To measure the temperature, there must be a transfer of energy from a "hot" object to the thermometer (let's say the mercury within it) or from the thermometer to a "cold object."
To measure weight, a balance must absorb the force exerted by an object.
To measure light intensity, the light must be absorbed by some instrument.
ETC.
All this data is always also relative. These equipment must be calibrated to give accurate information.
To measure length, you can place a ruler beside the object and compare the length.
So how could we ever measure a qualia? Not only would an instrument need to absorb it... it would also need to be calibrated. Most likely, this instrument would have to be a sentient being itself with perhaps the ability to change the parameters by which stimuli causes qualia. What I mean is let's say I am looking at a red circle. Somehow, this instrument would have to be able to absorb my qualia of seeing a red circle. But then, perhaps it would actually see a blue blob. Then, it needs to be calibrated until it sees the red circle as I am seeing it. The only this could work is if there were really some sort of psychic energy released by our brains as we perceive qualia. I might not be imaginative enough but I just don't believe there's a reality where we do that.
Another thing science explores is causality. So, with the principles of science we can show that activation of certain brain regions leads to certain experiences but just knowing that there is causality or correlation doesn't really explain how a physical event (in the brain) can affect a subjective event... and especially, how can a subjective event affect a physical event (in the brain). I just think this will always be an inherent impossibility to solve the enigma.
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
To review, one of the insights that I got in the past month was to also consider the information that's in the quantum states of the physical world. This isn't the same as parallel worlds, and its not the same as 'astral' either, though it does overlap a little bit with the concept of an aether. My intuition had been screwed up by the sci-fi spin on quantum mechanics, but conversations with two physicists got me past that a bit.
Subsequently, something I've been trying to get more clarity on is that there's something like a neural network that I use to process the data. There's one, presumably my brain, which is most directly connected to sensate inputs which come both before and after I'm thinking about them. But there seems to be another system, also like a neural net, which seems to be prior to and less directly connected to this more immediate system. In conventional language, that would be my 'soul' (as distinct from my 'spirit') which would contain the accumulated result of my 'past lives'. I don't really believe in past lives in the conventional sense. I also question where that 'soul' is and how it works. Something like a neural network requires a very large number of constituent parts, it isn't a single, atomic thing. Might I be directly accessing the brains of previous bodies, so there's a kind of temporal non-locality, but no other matter? Is that why it is relatively indestructible, I can feel what it was before it was destroyed? Or is it made of something else?
I'd be interested in you further dissecting the concept of quantum states, both as to how to avoid the sci-fi spin on quantum mechanics and to see it's value in the conversation of spirituality. My own understanding of quantum mechanics is also very basic. What I understand is that quantum mechanics are the physical theories of the subatomic world which is characterized by discrete values (quanta). Like an electron is not in position 1.00, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03 etc counting all the decimals, but in specific position clouds 1, 2, 3, 4 (also considering orbital names s, p, d, f, and variations) and that things such as light and particles both behave as waves and particles. and there's a level of uncertainty because it's not all cause-and-effect but a bit of probability too. All in all, this is a bit much for my brain to comprehend and especially because of that, I don't see how it leads to support a spiritual conversation. It seems the popular conversation has just taken the fact that the concepts are hard to comprehend to say "hey, physics are weird, so for sure weird stuff like spiritual stuff is supported by it" Just the popular concept of "an observer affects the behavior of a particle, from wave to particle" or such is such... they are not talking about a human observer but rather about the technology which is collecting information (and therefore interacting physically with it to some extent).
And yes, those "energy lifeforms" really do insinuate another type of matter to provide the structure.
And I do like the way you're going with your theorizing about timeless brains storing spirit or soul. I must confess it's hard for me to discern between soul and spirit
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