Thread: Do you believe in reality shifting / astral projection?

Honestly, if we can reality shift, I don't understand why no one found a reliable utility for it. These things are often considered esoteric, only accessible to the spiritual elite but even them have found no use for it which is very perplexing to me in this capitalist world. It's not like no one is making a livelihood out of spirituality, religion, faith, holistic practices, the magic esthetic, hope and belief. Generally, anything you can think of, people are making it their job, whether it be art or beauty, love or companionship, sport or play, knowledge or information... And they are getting money in exchange. It's their livelihood, even if for others, it might be a hobby. I just imagine that if there were such things, our world would be very different. Some people would find a way to capitalize on them, make it their livelihood. Maybe they would be healers or private detectives or cartologists. But whatever it were, they would give it their all and find a way to give a service to others and live off of their passion or trade.

Imagine if modern medicine only worked often enough to nurture faith but not enough for anyone to make it their profession? Imagine if it were the same for teaching... tTere would be no teachers because learning was something that only the most faithful could experience for themselves yet, unprovable to others. It's kind of senseless.

I guess this doesn't mean much but if it's real, this is what perplexes me the most.

As far as I'm aware, the methods/techniques I use lead to lucid dreaming—be that WILD, DILD, DEILD or whatever you want to call it. I do not believe in astral projection or reality shifting.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

As far as I'm aware, the methods/techniques I use lead to lucid dreaming—be that WILD, DILD, DEILD, or whatever you want to call it. I do not believe in astral projection or reality shifting.

I do the same. I believe it is just lucid dreaming too.
If we could Reality Shift in real life then the government would have probably made it illegal or it would be for a select few who are a little more mentally sound or went through proper training. In some ways, you probably don't want to know what would be like in your other realities. I don't think most would actually be mentally prepared to deal with even the slightest of shifts, in real life. If I could, I wouldn't tell you. (IMO)
Astral projection, if I was into such things, I would never tell anyone. It would be my belief. I don't need to tell people my spiritual beliefs.

I’ve never had an astral projection experience but even so I don’t believe it to be true. So many strange and bizarre experiences can be had whilst lucid dreaming and attempting a WILD so I find it much more plausible that an astral projection is just another form of dream. I don’t see the need to add anything else spiritual to the experience. Same for shifting. It sounds to me like people have had a lucid dream where they believe they’ve shifted realities and that’s it.

Btw. I think this may be better in the beyond dreaming section of the forum.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

Btw. I think this may be better in the beyond dreaming section of the forum.

I was going to categorize it there but I accidentally hit enter and it submitted.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

I do the same. I believe it is just lucid dreaming too.
If we could Reality Shift in real life then the government would have probably made it illegal or it would be for a select few who are a little more mentally sound or went through proper training. In some ways, you probably don't want to know what would be like in your other realities. I don't think most would actually be mentally prepared to deal with even the slightest of shifts, in real life. If I could, I wouldn't tell you. (IMO)
Astral projection, if I was into such things, I would never tell anyone. It would be my belief. I don't need to tell people my spiritual beliefs.

I also agree. Also, when I tend to get into an argument with "astral projectors," they bring up the Stargate Program from the CIA, which is a long series of documents on the CIA attempting astral projection, which is funny because if you go to the wikipedia page for the Stargate Program, the CIA stopped Stargate because of it being found to not actually work, then AIR (American Institutes for Research) considered it dubious. Just something I thought I'd share.

Originally Posted by MoonOfBacon

I also agree. Also, when I tend to get into an argument with "astral projectors," they bring up the Stargate Program from the CIA, which is a long series of documents on the CIA attempting astral projection, which is funny because if you go to Wikipedia page for the Stargate Program, the CIA stopped Stargate because of it being found to not actually work, then AIR (American Institutes for Research) considered it dubious. Just something I thought I'd share.

I'm not sure I would even trust Wikipedia or Reddit. People have been known to add things that are not true. I mean you are probably better off thinking critically when it comes with reading things online and not some source that can be edit at any time.

BTW:

I've never heard of 'reality shifting', but I'll just take the words as what they mean to me. If you could 'reality shift', people would not be able to tell, provided that you shift reality in a consistent way. Memory would change along with current circumstances. How can you tell that people aren't "reality shifting" when they do affirmations? Affirmations affect a person's brain, obviously, but if they affected more than that it would be really hard for a skeptic to tell.

If you could shift reality in inconsistent ways, so that you have objective evidence of it, your life would be a chaotic mess, with every change producing a mess of subtly interrelated but frighteningly obvious unintended consequences. And other people would be scared of you.

I don't feel like rehashing astral projection again, there are many, many threads on it. Indisputably the sensate aspect of it is a lucid dream. And I'd argue that as a practice it definitely is not a spiritual path that goes anywhere worth going, in contrast to what proponents generally say about it. But that doesn't mean that there's nothing else interesting going on that's inspiring the lucid dream.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I've never heard of 'reality shifting', but I'll just take the words as what they mean to me. If you could 'reality shift', people would not be able to tell, provided that you shift reality in a consistent way. Memory would change along with current circumstances. How can you tell that people aren't "reality shifting" when they do affirmations? Affirmations affect a person's brain, obviously, but if they affected more than that it would be really hard for a skeptic to tell.

If you could shift reality in inconsistent ways, so that you have objective evidence of it, your life would be a chaotic mess, with every change producing a mess of subtly interrelated but frighteningly obvious unintended consequences. And other people would be scared of you.

I don't feel like rehashing astral projection again, there are many, many threads on it. Indisputably the sensate aspect of it is a lucid dream. And I'd argue that as a practice it definitely is not a spiritual path that goes anywhere worth going, in contrast to what proponents generally say about it. But that doesn't mean that there's nothing else interesting going on that's inspiring the lucid dream.

Agreed.

I also think that it is lucid dreaming, at least, in most cases. I have heard, however, that Tibetan monks who study dream yoga can project themselves into a reality so close to waking reality, that they can see people traveling up the mountain paths to their temples before they arrive. I don't know if this true, but the idea fascinates me. Especially because (as I've mentioned in previous threads) I had a situation like that in a lucid dream where I saw my brother at the door - and he was really there in real life. Also, reading up on near death experiences suggests that this sort of thing is possible.

Where most stray, I think, is delving into the hyper-spiritual "realms" of heavens, hells, akashic? library/records, that kind of stuff. I just don't buy into most of that. Maybe it's real? Maybe not? I really can't say, though - I haven't experienced it.

I do think there's something to the idea that there are multiple reality paths we can be on. However, the differences may be very subtle on a day-to-day basis. Combining this idea with law of attraction principles, I can see this as a real possibility, to some extent. I know people who are miserable, and you know what? Bad stuff always happens to them. I swear, they manifest it. And other people? Just naturally lucky. Is it coincidence? Or does our energetic frequency play a role in our life outcomes? I don't know, but I'm very interested in the subject.

MoonageDaydream,

I agree with you about the things you doubt. I think that having definite faith in ideas that aren't actually quite right has drawbacks, and its better to leave some things open, even while we try to figure out how to make the concrete descriptions more accurate.

I used to think of multiple paths as being sort of like sci-fi parallel universes. It never quite made sense though, because I don't think there are multiple concurrent versions of myself. Now I'm thinking about it in another way that I know isn't correct either, but I think it is closer. The multiple paths are all present in the same reality. To use a really bad analogy, if you listen to a musical note, there isn't just one frequency in it, there are a lot of harmonics that combine to make the note. We think of it as being a particular note, but there's more depth to it than that, otherwise every instrument would sound like a whistle. Now image you could separate all the component frequencies, rearrange them, and put them back together in a different way so that it was actually a different note. I think we're doing something like that when we 'change' the path we're on. It is possible because everything in the new path was also in the old path, but somehow oriented in a different direction. So for the purposes of understanding our 'choice', we live in just one world, but it has a lot more depth to it than is commonly recognized. Premonitions are possible because the future is completely determined by the present, for the current 'orientation'. But there's freedom because the 'orientation' can change. In this idea, there are not any random events in the future, there are only what appear to be random events because we're not thinking in a way that sees the whole present, and because there's freedom in the 'orientation'.

An angel of fate, so to speak, sees the future as part of the present, and does not have to extrapolate from a mental caricature of the present in order to guess the future. It sees it directly. But it sees it as some kind of superposition of many of the possible orientations, and it can prune the possible outcomes by limiting the multiplicity of 'orientations' to a narrower range. There's a tradeoff between the richness or depth of the present and being able to control or 'know' the future, and those have to be balanced. When I'm thinking in a way that produces accurate premonitions, maybe I'm not reaching outside of the present so much as I'm focusing on the present in a different way. That different focus, which is largely subconscious, involves feeling the 'future' states that are in the present one, and forming picture and sound metaphors to describe those feelings. There's a pretty close resemblance between those metaphors and the corresponding future events, but it isn't exact, because they're metaphors, and because the steering of the fuzzy 'orientation' isn't precisely determined.

To the extent that there's any truth to what I'm saying, I guess there must be a spatial analogue to this also, where far away objects and events are also dimly represented in the local aether, so to speak. So telepathetic empathy works in pretty much the same way as precognition or choice.

I realize it must be pretty hard to follow what I'm trying to say here, because of the strange way I'm using words, but hopefully it makes as least some vague sense.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I realize it must be pretty hard to follow what I'm trying to say here, because of the strange way I'm using words, but hopefully it makes as least some vague sense.

Nah, makes perfect sense to anyone with a sufficient understanding of physics and how we humans interpret and resolve available information

If you thought it was clear, maybe you understand it better than I do.

If you're potentially interested in collaborating on physics, artificial intelligence, or other engineering projects, provide a way to contact you and I can give you more info. (That invitation is open to everybody else with relevant interests and skills also.) I'm involved with grant supported research as well as software related projects.

I'm also always interested in talking about purposeful activity related to 'spiritual growth', for lack of a better phrase, since I'm not entirely sure what my next step is.

I believe there is more to life than just this physical, temporary world and body we are in. Because of that belief I see dreams as a step into these spiritual realms, that are just as real as this physical world. I guess it's up to what you believe can be possible. If this material world is all there is in your belief system, then you will see dreams as mere projections from a brain that's processing the things we experience in waking life. Hence why the first reply to this post talks about 'real world' applications for dreams. This comes from an idea that the waking life is all there is. Many religions and spiritual practices come from the idea that there is more than just the physical reality. And practitioners of these practices simply have a different view on what is real, what can be real. It takes a major paradigm shift to go from a materialistic view to a spiritual one. We call it spiritual because that's the descriptor we have used throughout the ages to talk about the essence of the worlds we visit and body we use to visit these worlds.

Sorry if this is necro, but while I struggle with belief in shifting, I want to believe in it. I have opened my heart to manifestation being possible.

I actually came to DV because I think the popular persistent realms blogs here made by Hyu have a powerful spiritual significance. If there are realms of consciousness the brain can go to that, seemingly magically, can start up where they left off and feel "real", who's to say shifting isn't? I am definitely exploring the realms concept made by Hyu during my sleep, and hey, if I make it to an alternate timeline for real, I'll definitely post about it on another Dream Views.

Originally Posted by SharedDSRee

Sorry if this is a necro, but while I struggle with belief in shifting, I want to believe in it. I have opened my heart to manifestation being possible.

I actually came to DV because I think the popular persistent realms blogs here made by Hyu have a powerful spiritual significance. If there are realms of consciousness the brain can go to that, seemingly magically, can start up where they left off and feel "real", who's to say shifting isn't? I am definitely exploring the concept of the realm made by Hyu during my sleep, and hey, if I make it to an alternate timeline for real, I'll definitely post about it on another Dream View.

You are fine.

What are you going to accomplish when you go to these Alt realities? What is wrong with your current one?