The Afterlife Is Like A Lucid Dream

I just finished watching that movie "What Dreams May Come" which has an excellent portrayal of what life after death may be like.

When we die, we go to a realm similar to that of a lucid dream. Our thoughts will create reality so anything we imagine will happen in this realm. This realm can be your own personal heaven or hell depending on what your thinking about. It is much like a lucid dream, you create your own scenario/dream scenary (which you can change) and anything you think of will come into existence. You have all the powers of lucid dreaming such as flying, teleportation, manifestation, etc. you can make it your own personal heaven by thinking good thoughts, about things you desire, or you can make it your own personal hell by thinking of bad things you dont want - it is all up to you according to your thoughts. You can even cross over to other peoples realities much like a shared dream. The life we are living now is just warming us up for this next reality so that we know what we desire, so we can be a god in our own sanctuary living in peace and harmony.

I believe this to be true... does this resonate with anyone else? what are your thoughts and feelings about this?

I've seen that movie - it's very interesting. Actually, I thought it was a bit depressing too though...

Anyway, I believe more in reincarnation and not that everyone goes to the afterlife the first time. Only souls who have completed their karmic cycle retire in the afterlife, but yeah, it could very well be like a lucid dream. I imagine everything would be more colorful and vivid like a lucid dream.

As an Athiest, I really don't know what to expect in the after life, but if it were just a never ending lucid dream, that would be awesome! :bigteeth: Though, I would be the crazy person to induce nightmares in the afterlife on purpose just out of boredom. :wink: Seriously though, that would be a good thing for all of us on this forum, b/c a lot of us already know how to control our lucid dreams (I'll learn eventually) and would be at a great advantage when we got there. :)

Sounds like an intriguing concept, that's kinda what I thought heaven would be like in the first place.
Completely yours.

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Originally Posted by Burns

Anyway, I believe more in reincarnation and not that everyone goes to the afterlife the first time. Only souls who have completed their karmic cycle retire in the afterlife, but yeah, it could very well be like a lucid dream. I imagine everything would be more colorful and vivid like a lucid dream.
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I believe in karma but I really dislike the idea of having to reincarnate without choice purely because of a couple of negative karma points. Its a vicious cycle, you will never truly get your karma to stay on the zero mark, it will always be over or under. I prefer the idea that each time you die you return to this dreamworld realm where you can choose to reincarnate again or not.

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Originally Posted by Burns

As an Athiest, I really don't know what to expect in the after life, but if it were just a never ending lucid dream, that would be awesome! :bigteeth: Though, I would be the crazy person to induce nightmares in the afterlife on purpose just out of boredom. :wink: [/b]

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Wow, I thought Athiests didn't believe in the afterlife, I thought they just think when your dead your dead, you dont exist anymore.

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Originally Posted by Burns

Seriously though, that would be a good thing for all of us on this forum, b/c a lot of us already know how to control our lucid dreams (I'll learn eventually) and would be at a great advantage when we got there. :) [/b]

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I thought about this as well, we would have an advantage because we will know how to control our powers in this realm when we die, also we wont be scared or have nightmares because we know how to handle this already.

Life; ...after life!

We birth now.. (Dividing cells.)
We die now.. (Shedding cells.)

The cycle, of life!

:D :thumbup:

i like to think that the afterlife is beyond a lucid dream. a lucid reality , that can be dremt in . i suppose a lucid dream is a lucid reality.

I totally agree with Eonn, I had very smiliar theory about afterlife. I think that afterlife is entirely created by our mind, we'll go there where we want to. Like in a lucid dream. Maybye you have seen Waking Life, in wich is discusion about similar topic "The moment of your death, but your brain is still active" (when you die, you brain is active for some time and because dream time differs from real time, it could be long as your whole life since you fade away from dreams). It is nice theory... And the reason why I ask people: "What will you do in your afterlife", like there is some choice. I think there is.

I dont concider the afterlife a 'dreamworld'. calling it a 'dreamworld' makes this reality more 'real'. I believe its the other way around. This is much more like the 'dreamworld' and 'afterlife' is the real and true and original reality. Its only on the other side even that you learn all the mysterious behind reality - here it will always be a wild goose chase. Even scientists admit we can never study the higher dimensions becuase all of our tools can not exist there and can not see it.

In both realities your thoughts manifest to a degree. So I do agree your thoughts can manifest on the other side like you said, but I also think they manifest here too - just at a slower rate. Look up the Secret.

What I dont like about the 'dreamworld' view of the afterlife is that our lives in dreams are meaningless and we dream alone. I believe in the next life you can be with any living thing in existance, not hallucinations created by your mind, but other living beings, and your time there is not meaningless. You can still learn and grow. Your new life can be more meaningful than any life down here - or else the plight of escaping reincarnation would be pointless.

Earth is like a wacky school - but we dont spend our lives in school do we? And just becuase weve left school doesnt mean we stop learning, stop growing, stop making more experiences? You learn even more once you start living your own life. And just like here on earth, you havent really started to live your own life until you reach adulthood. And just like life here on earth, if you dont go to school, it hinders your ability to live as an adult? right? all the more reason to graduate with good scores.

I think our spirits HAVENT reached adulthood yet - our graduation symbolizing our adulthood would be fullfilling our purpose here on earth. Then as an adult spirit you can really start to live your own life. After all, the human spirit in the belief of the afterlife is eternal right? Then there is much life to live on the other side. Our time here on earth, even with reincarnation is only momentarily in the span of eternity.


I think its a heavy reality for the human soul to accept eternal LIFE. Becuase unlike dreams, life means you have to do something even if that doing something is simply loving another, life means unexpected changes, that nothing stays the same forever. Life means movement, like a river, not sitting in one spot like a mountain. Not like dreams at all - where we have nothing to do but idle our time in illusions - thats resting.

Eternal LIFE, not eternal rest.

resting or (dreaming) are for spirits who are too afraid to accept life - like someone who stays in their bedroom all day too afraid to go outside.

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Originally Posted by juroara

I dont concider the afterlife a 'dreamworld'. calling it a 'dreamworld' makes this reality more 'real'. I believe its the other way around. This is much more like the 'dreamworld' and 'afterlife' is the real and true and original reality. Its only on the other side even that you learn all the mysterious behind reality - here it will always be a wild goose chase. Even scientists admit we can never study the higher dimensions becuase all of our tools can not exist there and can not see it.[/b]

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call it what you will, but fact is... if there is an afterlife, then we are being prepared for it.

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Originally Posted by juroara

In both realities your thoughts manifest to a degree. So I do agree your thoughts can manifest on the other side like you said, but I also think they manifest here too - just at a slower rate. Look up the Secret.[/b]

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I have seen The Secret, and others like "what the bleep.." and also the book "Unlock Reality", they all share the same idea... that thought manifests. We are restricted in this reality by time and matter, so it is very likely that when we leave our bodies behind, thought will manifest much faster.

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Originally Posted by juroara

What I dont like about the 'dreamworld' view of the afterlife is that our lives in dreams are meaningless and we dream alone. I believe in the next life you can be with any living thing in existance, not hallucinations created by your mind, but other living beings, and your time there is not meaningless. You can still learn and grow. Your new life can be more meaningful than any life down here - or else the plight of escaping reincarnation would be pointless.[/b]

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well there is the idea that in an LD afterlife, you could have a shared dream so you wouldn't be alone.

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Originally Posted by juroara

Earth is like a wacky school - but we dont spend our lives in school do we? And just becuase weve left school doesnt mean we stop learning, stop growing, stop making more experiences? You learn even more once you start living your own life. And just like here on earth, you havent really started to live your own life until you reach adulthood. And just like life here on earth, if you dont go to school, it hinders your ability to live as an adult? right? all the more reason to graduate with good scores.

I think our spirits HAVENT reached adulthood yet - our graduation symbolizing our adulthood would be fullfilling our purpose here on earth. Then as an adult spirit you can really start to live your own life. After all, the human spirit in the belief of the afterlife is eternal right? Then there is much life to live on the other side. Our time here on earth, even with reincarnation is only momentarily in the span of eternity.
I think its a heavy reality for the human soul to accept eternal LIFE. Becuase unlike dreams, life means you have to do something even if that doing something is simply loving another, life means unexpected changes, that nothing stays the same forever. Life means movement, like a river, not sitting in one spot like a mountain. Not like dreams at all - where we have nothing to do but idle our time in illusions - thats resting.

Eternal LIFE, not eternal rest.

resting or (dreaming) are for spirits who are too afraid to accept life - like someone who stays in their bedroom all day too afraid to go outside.[/b]

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I take it you are somewhat a spiritualist? I would be interested to know what you think afterlife is like... how it looks or operates... mainly how it looks, but also where do our spirit's go? what do we do in the afterlife? I hate the idea that we just wonder around the earth as a spirit for eternity.

I believe spirit/soul and consciousness is one and the same thing, so when we die and consciousness is no longer confined to a humanly body, what happens? where do we go? perhaps we become a ball of conscious energy that reconnects with the universe's conscious energy. Or perhaps our consciousness creates its own home or heaven to spend eternity in, where thought manifests instantly. I really dont know to be honest, i just like the idea of an LD heaven more than anything, but I would be really interested to find out what you believe it will look like.. will we still see things like tree's, animals, people, houses, etc. or is it something totally different where we dont have eye-sight? I really want to hear about what it will LOOK like most of all, so if you could give some input on that i would appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Eonnn

I take it you are somewhat a spiritualist? I would be interested to know what you think afterlife is like... how it looks or operates... mainly how it looks, but also where do our spirit's go? what do we do in the afterlife? I hate the idea that we just wonder around the earth as a spirit for eternity.

I believe spirit/soul and consciousness is one and the same thing, so when we die and consciousness is no longer confined to a humanly body, what happens? where do we go? perhaps we become a ball of conscious energy that reconnects with the universe's conscious energy. Or perhaps our consciousness creates its own home or heaven to spend eternity in, where thought manifests instantly. I really dont know to be honest, i just like the idea of an LD heaven more than anything, but I would be really interested to find out what you believe it will look like.. will we still see things like tree's, animals, people, houses, etc. or is it something totally different where we dont have eye-sight? I really want to hear about what it will LOOK like most of all, so if you could give some input on that i would appreciate it.[/b]

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what do I know? :bigteeth: I base my beliefs and ideas on hundreds of NDEs - I've probably read a good 500 of them. NDEs fascinate me becuase they are actually consistant - and not based on the persons individual beliefs that they grew up with as skeptics think. For example, people who didnt even believe in heaven saw heaven, Jews saw Jesus, and Christians saw things that went against Christian faith - like reincarnation or that hell is not eternal - or even not real. I also base my ideas of ADCs *after death communication* where a loved one on earth asks a departed "whats it like?", and angel visitations related to ADCs.

The answers I give you will just be based off the experiences of others in a nutshell.

What does it look like? NDEs are very varied when it comes to this. There isn't a specific way it looks. Some remember the most beautiful gardens, others fantastical landscapes, others the universe, stars, galaxies, some even remember entering mysterious caves, others buildings floating in the universe, others just remember light.

In ADCs an answer you get is it can look like anything. One deceased mother told her daughter for example that even was hot. The daughter didnt understand why heaven would be hot, since hot is normally used to describe hell. The mother explained that here she can visit anyplace during anytime - and at this moment she decided to visit a very hot sunny beach. And she claimed she could experience it just as you and I.

Other ADCs suggest the same thing, that spirits dont just visit where ever they want to, but can visit other time periods. ADCs and NDEs both suggest that time is not linear on the otherside. There is time, but it doesnt function the way it does here.

So, what does it look like? Who the hell knows! It does seem different from person to person - but something that is fairly consistant is that heaven is natural - or rather a state of being where you connect with life forms. youre a lot more likely to visit a jungle then, than an amusement park. Amusement parks arent alive like a jungle is.

How does it operate? Several ADCs and NDEs actually suggest heaven is a very 'human' idea. There isnt this magical happy place floating above earth. What there is are realms. The realms are all different levels of energy of different frequencies, becoming different states of beings. The highest realm of 'heaven' has the highest level of energy frequencies, so high its suggested that not even our souls can go there without the level of energy harming it.

Our physical realm as we know it is also just another realm of energy - its a lower denser energy realm. The lower the energy well, the less heavenly the realm is. Which realm of heaven a human goes to depends on the energy level of their soul - which you can say is their consciousness. How 'conscious' they are.

How conscious you are is everything on the other side. It really determines where you go, and what you experience. For example, some NDErs had heightened senses on the other side. They could see clearer, farther, and colors the eye cant normally see. They could smell things you can't normally smell - evil has a distinct smell of sulfur. They could hear differently, not just your voice that comes from your mouth but the voice in your head at the same time, and they could literally hear how people do not speak their mind and hide their true voice. These NDEs were amazed at how....sensory the soul could be, that the body actually limits the senses.

Other NDErs felt just the oppisite. They felt they no longer had senses, not even vision, and they simply experienced reality by knowing. That knowing becomes the new sense. Which NDEr has it right? Heightened senses or not? The reason why I said it depends on your consciousness is because dreams function in the same exact way. If you are not consciously looking at your world, your dream will be fuzzy. If you are the type of person who stops and smells the roses, your dream will be crystal clear.

Anyways, back to operating. Work isnt just something you do on earth, work is in heaven too. There is always something to do - you dont work for money - you work instead becuase you love. Like a gaurdian angel who guards a humanm, not for money but becuase they love that human. However, humans dont always get 'work' in heaven becuase they might not be conscious enough for the work, they might be too attached to wordly desires, and they might lack the unconditional love needed for the work.

ADCs and NDEs suggest though the work on the other side is amazing, satisfying, and youre missing out if you dont eventually work. ADCs and NDEs explain that all humans on earth also have heavenly work to do on Earth. This has nothing to do with our jobs though. The work they are talking about normally means our bonds between the people we love - or taking care of our own children.

What does a human do after they die? What does a human do depends on the state of their soul. Those who were injured in life go through a sort of therapy. This happens a couple of times in ADCs, where the deceased will visit looking grim, depressed and say they are in a sort of hospital run by angels getting help. These ADCs tend to be accompanied by a second visit where the soul is 'healthy' again. Some of the people in these ADCs were those who committed suicide, especially if they though dying frees you from everything. No. not really.

Some humans will have to do a sort of schooling - actually - this is for most humans. In one story an angel claims they work with children spirits, teaching them about the earth. and unlike children on earth who sit behind a desk they actually visit those locations in person. The child spirits claimed they knew more about earth than their own parents.

Some humans go through a stage of simply remembering who they are. They remember their true name, their past lives, their true spirit family - to the point where their life on earth as this tiny event in the whole of their existance. Some even claimed that they were on the other side for so long they were getting ready to live a new life on earth - which by their undertanding was for the sole purpose of learning something specific. Ofcourse, they just ended up back here instead :bigteeth:

Some humans cant let go of the wordly life. And mourn that they no longer eat, drink, sleep, or have sex *you make spiritual love instead which many claim is even better*. These confused spirits hang around on earth depressed with no meaning to their existance, sometimes transforming into a shade - something no longer human.

To help prevent these humans from transforming into a shade, sometimes angels will create a dream like world for these humans, illusions. In this dream like world they continue to do all the things they used to do on earth. Here they are kept away from earth as not to haunt our buildings, and slowly over time they start to realize, or hopefully, that all of these things are mere illusions and only living things are trully real. This is not a positive state of being and is much more like a limbo.

What do we look like? We look the way we think we appear. Were still be wearing clothes if we think we need to wear clothes. Well see everyone else wearing clothes if we think they need to be wearing clothes. NDErs who claimed they were able to let go of wordly things claim in the end we look like spirits - like light. The light can come in different colors, sometimes shapes. For humans who arent ready to accept their true form though, they will continue to see faces, hands, arms and legs. After a while, these body parts seem like strange foreign things.

anyways, here is a random lesson from the other side - everything is a form of energy, but not everything is a form of high energy. Here on earth however we do have physical items that radiate high energy, they are gemstones. Gemstones are supposed to radiate energy coming from the higher realms. Their properties make it so that they can exist here on earth and in heaven. For example, some people claimed that both beings such as angels and buildings in heaven looked as if they were formed from gemstones and jewels. Even bronze has been used to describe the appearance of angelic metallic beings.

oh yes, I wanted to touch on the sense of touch. While alot of NDErs claimed they no longer had a sense of touch, mostly just temperature *they could feel warmth or cold* they felt that it was not becuase the soul cant 'touch' as much as humans dont remember touch. Another being in the galaxy that uses only touch for example, would still experience touch as a spirit. It just so happens we are more visual and auditory beings.

WOW! Thanks for that Juraoara! That was an awesome read.. exactly what i was lookin for.. Thanks heaps! :D

One thing i'll point out...

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Originally Posted by juroara

Some humans cant let go of the wordly life. And mourn that they no longer eat, drink, sleep, or have sex *you make spiritual love instead which many claim is even better*. These confused spirits hang around on earth depressed with no meaning to their existance, sometimes transforming into a shade - something no longer human.

To help prevent these humans from transforming into a shade, sometimes angels will create a dream like world for these humans, illusions. In this dream like world they continue to do all the things they used to do on earth. Here they are kept away from earth as not to haunt our buildings, and slowly over time they start to realize, or hopefully, that all of these things are mere illusions and only living things are trully real. This is not a positive state of being and is much more like a limbo.[/b]

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This conforms with the idea of an LD heaven :P

That movie, and that book are really some of my favorites. I can only hope that the afterlife is like that, but I really can't say that I can truly believe that it is or isn't like that. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

If you are interested, read through this (long) text:

By Ven. S. Dhammika

Where do beings come from and where are they going?

There are three possible answers to this question. Those who believe in a god or gods usually claim that before an individual is created, he/she does not exist, then he/she comes into being through the will of a god. He/she lives their life and then, according to what they believe or do in their life, they either go to eternal heaven or hell. There are others, humanists and scientists, who claim that the individual comes into being at conception due to natural causes, lives and then at death, ceases to exist. Buddhism does not accept either of these explanations. The first gives rise to many ethical problems If a good god really creates each of us, it is difficult to explain why so many people are born with the most dreadful deformities, or why so many children are miscarried just before birth or are still-born. Another problem with the theistic explanation is that it seems very unjust that a person should suffer eternal pain in hell for 60 or 70 years of non-belief or immoral living. Likewise, 60 or 70 years of good living seems a very small outlay for eternal bliss in heaven. for what he/she did in those years on Earth The second explanation is better than the first and has more scientific evidence to support it but still leaves several important questions unanswered. How can a phenomenon so amazingly complex as consciousness develop from the simple meeting of two cells, the sperm and the egg? And now that parapsychology is a recognized branch of science, phenomena like telepathy are increasingly difficult to fit into the materialistic model of the mind.
Buddhism offers the most satisfactory explanation of where beings come from and where they are going. When we die, the mind, with all the tendencies, preferences, abilities and characteristics that have been developed and conditioned in this life, re-establishes itself in a fertilized egg. Thus the individual grows, is re-born and develops a personality conditioned both by the mental characteristics that have been carried over. And by the new environment, the personality will change and be modified by conscious effort ;and conditioning factors like education, parental influence and society and once again at death, re-establishing itself in a new fertilized egg. This process of dying and being reborn will continue until the conditions that cause it, craving and ignorance, cease. When they do, instead of being reborn, the mind attains a state called Nirvana and this is the ultimate goal of Buddhism and the purpose of life.

How does the mind go from one body to another?

Think of it being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made up of words and music but energy at different frequencies, are transmitted, travel through space, and attracted to and picked up by the receiver from where they are broadcast as words and music. It is the same with the mind. At death, mental energy travels through space, is attracted to and picked up by the fertilized egg. As the embryo grows, it centers itself in the brain from where it later broadcasts itself as the new personality.

Is one always reborn as a human being?

No, there are several realms in which one can be reborn. Some people are reborn in heaven, some are reborn in hell, some are reborn as hungry ghosts and so on. Heaven is not a place but a state of existence where one has a subtle body and where the mind experiences mainly pleasure. Some religions strive very hard to be reborn in a heavenly existence mistakenly believing it to be a permanent state. But it is not. Like all conditioned states, heaven is impermanent and when one’s life span there is finished, one could well be reborn again as a human. Hell, likewise, is not a place but a state of existence where one has a subtle body and where the mind experiences mainly anxiety and distress. Being a hungry ghost, again, is a state of existence where the body is subtle and where the mind is continually plagued by longing and dissatisfaction.
So heavenly beings experience mainly pleasure, hell beings and ghosts experience mainly pain and human beings experience usually a mixture of both. So the main difference between the human realm and other realms is the body type and the quality of experience.

What decides where we will be reborn?

The most important factor, but not the only one, influencing where we will be reborn and what sort of life we shall have, is karma. The word karma means action and refers to our intentional mental actions. In other words, what we are is determined very much by how we have thought and acted in the past. Likewise, how we think and act now will influence how we will be in the future.
The gentle, loving type of person tends to be reborn in a heaven realm or as a human being who has a predominance of pleasant experiences. The anxious, worried or extremely cruel type of person tends to be reborn in a hell realm or as a human being who has a predominance of painful experiences. The person who develops obsessive craving, fierce longings, and burning ambitions that can never be satisfied tends to be reborn as a hungry ghost or as a human being frustrated by longing and wanting. Whatever mental habits are strongly developed in this life will continue in the next life. Most people, however, are reborn as human beings.

So if our lives are determined by our karma, can we change it?

Of course we can. That is why one of the steps on the Eightfold Path is Right Effort. It depends on our sincerity, how much energy we exert and how strong the habit is. But it is true that some people singly go through life under the influence of their past habits, without making an effort to change them and falling victim to these unpleasant results. Such people will continue to suffer unless they change their negative habits. The longer the negative habits remain, the more difficult they are to change. The Buddhist understands this and takes advantage of each and every opportunity to break mental habits that have unpleasant results and to develop mental habits that have pleasant and happy results. Meditation is one of the techniques used to modify the habit patterns of the mind as does speaking or refraining to speak in certain ways, and acting or refraining to act in certain ways. The whole of the Buddhist life is a training to purify and free the mind. For example, if being patient and kind was a pronounced part of your character in your last life, such tendencies will re-emerge in the present life. If they are strengthened and developed in the present life, they will re-emerge even stronger and more pronounced in the future life. This is based upon the simple and observable fact that long established habits tend to be difficult to break.
Now, when you are patient and kind, it tends to happen that you are not so easily ruffled by others, you don’t hold grudges, people like you and thus your experiences tend to be happier.

Now, let us take another example. Let us say that you come into life with a tendency to be patient and kind due to your mental habits in the past life. But in the present life, you neglect to strengthen and develop such tendencies. They would gradually weaken and die out and perhaps be completely absent in the future life. Patience and kindness being weak in this case, there is a possibility that in either this life or in the next life, a short temper, anger and cruelty could grow and develop, bringing with them all the unpleasant experiences that such attitudes create. We will take one last example. Let us say that due to your mental habits in the last life, you came into the present life with the tendency to be short-tempered and angry, and you realize that such habits only cause you unpleasantness and so you make an effort to change them. You replace them with positive emotions. If you are able to eliminate them completely, which is possible if you make an effort, you become free from the unpleasantness caused by being short tempered and angry. If you are only able to weaken such tendencies, they would re-emerge in the next life where with a bit more effort, they could be eliminated completely and you could be free from their unpleasant effects.

You have talked a lot about rebirth but is there any proof that we will be reborn when we die?

Not only is there scientific evidence to support Buddhist belief in rebirth, it is the only after-life theory that has any evidence to support it. There is not a scrap of evidence to prove the existence of heaven and of course evidence of annihilation at death must be lacking. But during the last 30 years parapsychologists have been studying reports that some people have vivid memories of their former lives. For example, in England, a 5 year old girl said she could remember her other mother and father and she talked vividly about what sounded like the events in the life of another person. Parapsychologists were called in and asked her hundreds of questions to which she gave answers. She spoke of living in a particular village, in what appeared to be Spain. She gave the name of the village, the name of the street she lived in, her neighbours’ names and details about her everyday life there. she also tearfully spoke of how she had been struck by a car and died of her injuries two days later. When these details were checked, they were found to be accurate. There was a village in Spain with the name the child had given. There was a house of the type she had described in the street she had named. What is more, it was found that a 23 year old woman living in the house had been killed in a car accident five years before.
Now how is it possible for a five year old living in England who had never been to Spain to know all these details? And of course, this is not the only case of this type. Professor Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia’s Department of Psychology has described dozens of cases of this type in his books. He is an accredited scientist whose 25 year study of people who remember former lives is very strong evidence for the Buddhist teaching of rebirth.

You say that talk about devils is superstitious. Isn't talk about rebirth a bit superstitious too?

The dictionary defines superstition as a belief which is not based on reason or fact but on an association of ideas, as in magic. If you can show me a careful study of the existence of devils written by a scientist I will concede that belief in devils is not superstition. But I have never heard of any research into devils; scientists simply wouldn’t bother to study such things, so I say there is no evidence for the existence of devils. But as we have just seen, there is evidence which seems to suggest that rebirth does take place. So if belief in rebirth is based on at least some facts, it cannot be a superstition.

Well, have there ever been any scientists who believe in rebirth?

Yes. Thomas Huxley, who was responsible for having science introduced into the 19th century British school system and who was the first scientist to defend Darwin’s theories, believed that reincarnation was a very plausible idea. In his famous book "Evolution and Ethics and other Essays", he says:
"In the doctrine of transmigration, whatever its origin, Brahmanical and Buddhist speculation found, ready to hand, the means of constructing a plausible vindication of the ways of the Cosmos to man....yet this plea of justification is not less plausible than others; and none but very hasty thinkers will reject it on the ground of inherent absurdity. Like the doctrine of evolution itself, that of transmigration has its roots in the world of reality; and it may claim such support as the great argument from analogy is capable of supplying".

Then, Professor Gust Stromberg, the famous Swedish astronomer, physicist and friend of Einstein also found the idea of rebirth appealing:

"Opinions differ whether human souls can be reincarnated on the earth or not. In 1936 a very interesting case was thoroughly investigated and reported by the government authorities in India. A girl (Shanti Devi from Deli) could accurately describe her previous life (at Muttra, five hundred miles from Deli) which ended about a year before her 'second birth'. She gave the name of her husband and child and described her home and life history. The investigating commission brought her to her former relatives, who verified all her statements. Among the people of India reincarnations are regarded as commonplace; the astonishing thing for them in this case was the great number of facts the girl remembered. This and similar cases can be regarded as additional evidence for the theory of the indestructibility of memory".

Professor Julian Huxley, the distinguished British scientist who was Director General of UNESCO believed that rebirth was quite in harmony with scientific thinking:

"There is nothing against a permanently surviving spirit-individuality being in some way given off at death, as a definite wireless message is given off by a sending apparatus working in a particular ways. But it must be remembered that the wireless message only becomes a message again when it comes in contact with a new, material structure - the receiver. So with our possible spirit-emanation. It would never think or feel unless again "embodied" in some way. our personalities are so based on body that it is really impossible to think of survival which would be in any true sense personal without a body of sorts. I can think of something being given off which could bear the same relation to men and women as a wireless message to the transmitting apparatus for mind".

Even very practical and down-to-earth people like the American industrialist Henry Ford found the idea of rebirth acceptable. Ford was attracted to the idea of rebirth because, unlike the theistic idea or the materialistic idea, rebirth gives you a second chance to develop yourself. Henry Ford says:

"I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I was twenty six. Religion offered nothing to the point. Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we cannot utilize the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation it was as if I had found a universal plan I realized that there was a chance to work out my ideas. Time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock. Genius is experience. Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent, but it is the fruit of long experience in many lives. Some are older souls than others, and so they know more. The discovery of Reincarnation put my mind at ease. If you preserve a record of this conversation, write it so that it puts men’s minds at ease. I would like to communicate to others the calmness that the long view of life gives to us".

So the Buddhist teachings of rebirth does have some scientific evidence to support it. It is logically consistent and it goes a long way in answering questions what the theistic and the materialistic theories fail to . It is also very comforting. What can be worse than a theory of life that gives you no second chance, no opportunity to amend the mistakes you have made in this life and no time to further develop the skills and abilities you have nurtured in this life. But according to the Buddha, if you fail to attain Nirvana in this life, you will have the opportunity to try again next time. If you have made mistakes in this life, you will be able to correct yourself in the next life. You will truly be able to learn from your mistakes. Things you were unable to do or achieve in this life may well become possible in the next life. What a wonderful teaching!

Source: http://www.buddhanet.net

That's funny, I was thinking this just the other day. Being another atheist, I don't know what to expect either. Maybe dreams are just like a little training program for the afterlife, who knows? I tell you, you're mind wanders when learning how to solve radical expressions. :content:

Wow Juroara, awesome! i'm not religious or anything but i believe in that spiritualist stuff (although that's not a religion), well mainly that everyone goes to the same place when we die. What you said brought a tear to my eye as i was trying to imagine that's what it would look like but i wish it could be true, i wont rule it out though. Too many theorys for me to believe anything.

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. NDEs fascinate me becuase they are actually consistant[/b]

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You say they are consistant, but then say all the different things people see in them, such as heaven, jesus, gardens, light, etc. How about that.

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Originally Posted by Eonnn

This conforms with the idea of an LD heaven :P[/b]

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hehehehe.... Xb razzzberries!

glad some of you liked my read. ive never had an NDE, so im just basing all of this on the totality of what others have said

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Originally Posted by ataraxis

You say they are consistant, but then say all the different things people see in them, such as heaven, jesus, gardens, light, etc. How about that.[/b]

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I feel they are consistant becuase there are strong central themes in all of them - or at least ones that are long enough. Consistancy doesnt mean identical.

for example, a tunnel is almost always necessary to reach heaven. For the NDEr who is still in the hospital, even witnessing the emergency room, they have to step into the tunnel to reach heaven. Sometimes it looks like a vortex.

it always has a feeling of ascending and a feeling of descending when returning to the body. while in the tunnel traveling in it is almost always involuntary - as if something is pulling the person. sometimes they witness some sort of angel carrying them, sometimes they dont - but always a pull sensation.

everyone knows the next part right? light at the end of the tunnel. at the end is when they reach 'heaven' as they know it. the next part is always the same in that they are always greeted in some sort of fashion. someone is always there waiting for them. an angel, God, Jesus, Budda, a loved one, millions of angels - but someone. Sometimes they have to walk farther in the 'room' to meet that someone.

what happens next is where the experience becomes diverse. but at the same time, that shows a level of consistancy - that the 'rooms' are diverse, and so to is what happens in them. what is the same are the emotions they feel. in heaven the NDEr always claims to have felt the most joy or love - a love and joy they have never felt on earth.

If the NDE is long enough to communicate with someone on the other side, the messeges are fairly consistant. One consistant message is that every human chooses to come to earth, chooses to embody in this life time, even chooses their family to be born into, their country. Every human choose a mission on earth, a life mission secret to us while on earth. The life mission is concidered so important you should not die beforehand, and the fates will see it that you dont. Life missions can be accomplished at different ages depending on the life mission, so that even a five year old can accomplish their life mission.

If there is a life review (generally the NDE has to be fairly long before a life review happens) a common feeling is the individual human judges their own life. They did not feel God judge their life or any other in the room. The life review can be painful, in that you visit all those moments you regret.

Many who met God exclaimed God was simply Being, and being the most joyful being in existance. That even Gods responses to them were one in a state of total bliss, one NDEr claimed that Gods response to one of their comments was a simple but happy "YEAH!" or a happy "OKAY!". This was shocking for some NDErs who grew up feeling God was all grumpy and mr. seriousness.

All of them get sent back with the beings on the other side more or less saying the same thing "its not your time yet" or "you still have work to be done". Some NDErs felt they were forced to come back against their will. Other NDErs say its always a choice to come back, but the choice is made in our higher self that knows the life mission. Some didnt even want to step in heaven for fear of leaving those on earth behind *like a young mother terrified to leave a baby behind*

Virtually all long NDEs confirm the idea that you did exist before being born on earth

Reincarnation in NDEs is a toss up. Sometimes the NDEr will ask if reincarnation is real, and sometimes the answer is no. But at the same time some NDErs admit the person they asked was a human spirit. And sometimes they feel this human spirit *most likely family* isnt all knowing, or doesnt know everything about heaven. Otherwise, a lot of NDErs are introduced to the idea of reincarnation *introduced becuase a lot of them were christian*

Hell in NDEs is also consistant. Some NDErs will ask if hell is real, and they get a 'no'. Others get 'yes, but not in the sense you are thinking. Its real and it isnt.' When others question if hell is real, they are shown it. Others see hell while they are in the tunnel - being below the tunnel. Others dont see hell while in the tunnel but remember hearing horrible shouts and screams when they pass a part of the tunnel. The descriptions of hell in NDEs are fairly consistant, from the howls, screams, its darkness and its smell. A putrid smell of burning flesh, rotting flesh, sulphur and vomit.

One NDEr was so heart broken to have seen hell and that it is 'real'. The angel with them explained those in hell are really in a frame of mind where they have lost hope - but they can leave hell at any moment if only they see the light above them, and that its always been right there for them. So this NDEr tried to scream at the inhabitents of hell - look up at the light and be saved (and all that jazz)! But she said, they simply wouldnt listen. They were so lost in their own misery they couldnt even hear the angels crying out to them. (its like telling a suicide you love them, not listening!)

Then you have the NDErs who experience hell. These are few compared to heaven NDEs. In two hell NDEs that I read, the NDErs saw a light above them, in desperation they cried out to God (who they recognized as the light) to save them. And in both cases they were. One came back to earth shortly, the other got to hang around in heaven for a while. In one hell experience *the worst I have ever read* they werent saved no matter how much they cried out to God. This NDEr must be scarred! They saw their friends in hell, and when they woke up in the emergency room they were told their friends had passed away. What a thought to live with, that your friends are in hell. . .

One NDEr while in the tunnel and realizing he or she was heading for heaven, suddenly felt unworthy - undeserving of such a place and felt themselves beginning to fall out of the tunnel and they too heard those shouts of horror

Appearances seem to differ a lot, especially God. Some see an old bearded man, some see a ball of light. Generally the bearded man is more serious and fatherly, and the ball of light more exotic and joyfull. Who is right? In one NDE the person met Jesus but Jesus appeared to them as a gnarled tree. Jesus told them becuase the person was open minded enough to see Jesus as he truly is. This NDEr and others felt beings in heaven appear to you in the best way you can understand them. (Jesus as a tree for example could be his ultimate way of saying he is the tree of life?)

Another consistant thing are the other wordly sensations. Some NDErs witness a light brighter than the sun that human physical eyes cant look at. Others remember sounds they have never heard, colors they have never seen or smells that represent the nature of someone *a sweet angel for example..smells sweet literally*. Also many say you communicate with your mind.

Another consistant thing is almost all NDErs whose experience takes them to heaven describe it as 'home'. A place where they came from, rather than a destination vacation spot.

Some of the weirdest NDEs are the void. The void is just absolute nothingness, except you. Some were terrified of this experience, others felt at peace, others felt that in the void they realized they were not alone and that a being has always been with them, in them, apart of them. They recognized this being as God. And that the void became the ultimate way of recognizing Gods presence within them. Sometimes a light ends the void and 'heaven' is experienced.

the void experience is more rare - and its up in the air as to what it means and how it fits in the bubble. Though one NDEr claims an angel explained that those who believe nothing, or that the soul will 'sleep' - then thats what they experience - nothing!! But its really an illusion and to all other spirits in heaven those sleepers look like mindless zombies. really unbecoming :bigteeth: A lot of christians believe they will 'sleep' until the second coming.

Great! sounds like i'll be one of those people going to hell with the description that was mentioned as that's how i am. :blue:

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Great! sounds like i'll be one of those people going to hell with the description that was mentioned as that's how i am. :blue:[/b]

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Then it is time to start changing yourself. You are already living in "hell", if you're always anxious and worried.

I'm very happy to find topics like this here..

well....I'm a Buddhist,, and the After Life is somethign that you study and meditate on several years.

It is complicated subject,, Only if you ask too I will get in deep into it.

But I believe this TWO short clips from the documental/movie, "the tibetan book of the dead". should give you an idea.

Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9FxdTMJpIs


Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=22X-lpeHT3w

and yes there is part "BARDO of rebirth" , when your reality is like a kind of wierd LD. you could say.

And about LDs preparing you to the "after life"?...YES but not like you think... there are specesific meditations in which you teach your mind to recognize when your Dying and all the steps and path your mind is going to travel, so when the time comes you are prepare.. so for example in DREAM YOGA you could do this kind of meditations in a more "real" scenario where everything looks real (lucid dream) ..
(this is just a small example)


The only thing for sure in our reality is that we are going to die... so is up to you if you prepare for that moment or not...

If anyone whants more info about this, PM..

BEN.

Hi Ben, I consider myself a Buddhist as well, and approve of all you wrote.

A great website with a LOT of texts and information is www.buddhanet.net - there choose the file library/resources tab. Also, if not already, check out this forum: www.lioncity.net/buddhism

Have a nice day

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Originally Posted by george

Hi Ben, I consider myself a Buddhist as well, and approve of all you wrote.

A great website with a LOT of texts and information is www.buddhanet.net - there choose the file library/resources tab. Also, if not already, check out this forum: www.lioncity.net/buddhism

Have a nice day[/b]

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Thanks George...

check out this site, this Geshe Michael roach web, he has of the best buddhist courses available to download.
http://www.world-view.org/

To have an graphic idea about rebirth from the tibetan]buddhism point of view I really recomend this movie.
"The Tibetan Book Of The Dead" A Way Of Life 1994, Buddhism, Narrator Leonard Cohen,.(there are two parts to this movie.. both are good.
This because if you start reading about this with out the guide of your lama/teacher or previous teaching about buddhism you may find this subject very wierd and strong..so I think this movie is a good approach to it (you can downloaded from almoust any p2p program)

(sorry this is just a small parentesis)(WE DONT WANNA GET OFF TOPIC).

I have loads of ideas about life after death but one of the ones i think is likely is that we reincarnate untill the world ends then the world begins a new life starting from scratch agein or when it end we all go to the next level of existence.
But who knows infact if anything i would consider myself a christian :content: