Thread: Is astral projection against god's will

Originally Posted by durza2016

I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know.

Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.

Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not.

Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.

Ok, well you are entitled to believe in whatever you want I guess, and I can't really say what's right or wrong, at least not in your god's point of view, but I think this is an interesting debate.

First of all though, my position in this is that I don't find any organized religion to be sane or healthy to any extent, but I am a very spiritual person.

I can imagine that Jesus used astral projection to walk on the water. This is something a medium got as an answer when she asked her 'spirit person' about it. I don't know what your position on mediums are, but to me they are more trustworthy than the bible at least.

Also, since there's nothing about astral projection in the ten commandments, then how could it be a sin? What is your defenition of 'occult' anyway?

I looked it up in a dictionary. Here's what I found:

The word occult comes from the latin 'occulere', which means 'to hide from view, cover up', so it's basically a term for things that you can't see or properly understand. By this defenition even your God would be concidered occult, but let's ignore that for now.

In medicine, the term occult means 'present in amounts too small to be visible', and in early science it meant 'not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation'.

I suppose the defenition you are referring to is 'of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies', right?

Well then, I guess we'll have to decide if astral projection is a supernatural power or not. That would sort out this issue, right?

Again, with the dictionary, supernatural means:

'of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal' and 'of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity'.

Ok, so this doesn't look good for you, if astral projections are in fact real. For the sake of argument, let's assume that they are, otherwise there is no point in debating this, right?

Since we can't explain astral projection by natural law, it is concidered to be supernatural, and therefore occult, which means it's a sin and you will go to hell for it. On the other hand, hell can't be explained by natural law either, so you will pretty much go to hell just by believing in it, so why not do a little astral projecting anyway just for the heck of it? The good news tough are that since God and dieties are by defenition supernatural also, you'll still end up by His side, even in hell.

Well, that was kind of confusing, now wasn't it? It's kind of ironic that your religion condemns things that can't be explained by natural law, per definition, but I suppose that if you'd like a different answer to this, you should probably not go by the common defenition of 'natural' when defining what 'natural law' means. 'Gods law' would be what you should try to sort out, and the only way that you can do that is by reading the bible.

I went to BibleGateway.com to do some research but I found nothing that said anything even remotely linked to astral projection. It's pretty clear though that christians are commanded to stay away from, and to forsake spiritual experiences which are not the express seeking of only the christian God, and that the spiritual experiences that christians are supposed to seek are only those that agree with what the Bible teaches.

I suppose that if you deny the spiritual experience of your astral projections you could get away with it. Kind of like claiming them to be as much of a spiritual experience as doing your laundry. Try whistling while being separated from your body, that should make it seem kind of casual and innocent. No, I'm just kidding. I think.

One thing is for sure though. There are a lot of important dreams in the bible, where people gets visited by divine beings and informed of holy messages, and even sees the future, so there's plenty of lucid dreaming going on at least, without anyone being condemned for it. So having lucid dreams seems to be ok, just don't wander off too far I guess. Stay put and you'll be safe.

If I were you though, I'd reconcider my beliefs. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, just that things might not be exactly what the bible claims. I mean think about it. If hell is real and you end up there, why would the devil torture you if you're apparently on his side? If he tortures you for having offended God, then wouldn't the devil be working for God? Wouldn't it be easier for God if he just forced you to as he pleased right from the beginning, instead of giving you the illusion of choice, and then condemning your ass if you fail?

Well, not really looking for a fight here, I just don't understand how you manage to make sense out of the christian belief system, that's all. I suppose that it's all relative, and as long as you don't compare it to anything else, it works. Hm..

/ Frank

the belief or thought that it may be against your religeon will hinder your chances of astral success.

I think NOT astral projecting is against god's will. There, how d'ya like them apples!?!

As is with many things... if you think it is a sin, than it is, because your heart is defying what you think is good and pure. Otherwise, you're golden. Go float around town.

I don't know I don't think it is a sin anymore. Because the Jewish Mystism do it. And belive it or not Christainy and Jewdism are the same. Expect Jews don't belive in Jesus. They do think He was a speical human being though. But they are still waiting for a messiah. But the way the devil doesn't live in hell he lives in heaven. I know it sounds weird.

For instance let's say you were a really good person. God gives everyone freewill including the devil. But god will put imits on what he can do.

Basically read the book of Job in the bible. I can't really eplain it.

But I was talking to a reiable source that is a christain. and he said it is not considered a sin. What you do in it might be a sin though.

Originally Posted by frank_online

Since we can't explain astral projection by natural law, it is concidered to be supernatural, and therefore occult, which means it's a sin and you will go to hell for it. On the other hand, hell can't be explained by natural law either, so you will pretty much go to hell just by believing in it, so why not do a little astral projecting anyway just for the heck of it? The good news tough are that since God and dieties are by defenition supernatural also, you'll still end up by His side, even in hell.

Ok just because something is supernatural doesn't mean that it is evil. God does, however, condemn the occult, and makes it quite plain that it IS evil.

Originally Posted by frank_online

If I were you though, I'd reconcider my beliefs. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, just that things might not be exactly what the bible claims. I mean think about it. If hell is real and you end up there, why would the devil torture you if you're apparently on his side? If he tortures you for having offended God, then wouldn't the devil be working for God?

I don't think the bible says anything about the devil torturing anyone in hell. He himself will be burning as well. The devil hates all of God's creations, and we are included. He knows he is going to hell, and because he hates us, he is trying to get as many of us on his side as possible so we can share in his fate. The devil is not working for God, he is doing everything he can against him.

Originally Posted by frank_online

Wouldn't it be easier for God if he just forced you to as he pleased right from the beginning, instead of giving you the illusion of choice, and then condemning your ass if you fail?

Maybe it would, but God gave us a free will. We can do as we please, but if we don't follow him, we go to hell when we die. If we do follow him, we go to heaven. It's really not that complicated.

Also, some advice to everyone. If you are in doubt as to whether something is a sin, stay away from it anyway.

God condemning the occult doesn't make it evil. Astrial projection isn't an occult. An occult is an occult.

Do you realize that occultic practices and magick were commonly taught throughout the empires of Europe before the Holy Mother church (Which is now the Catholic Church) condemned it a sin?

The seven sins were not always in the bible, mind you. It is a flawless design by the great Pagan Emperor Constantine who created a religion that inspired fear among the populace of Europe, and thus keeping everyone under his control.

Religion has blinded the lives of many, and once blinded me. Tell me, what is 'sin'? A mistake, correct? No matter how big or small it is, everyone sins. And if someone were to be raised in say, a family of non-religious people, he/she is going to hell? OR perhaps if a child is raised in a sexually abused environment and thus inflicts a negative impact on the psychosis of the child which in turn creates a psychopathic serial killer. Where's the justice in that? Dice are thrown and anyone who is number (X) and below get thrown into these families and these numbers go there?

Despite that fact, where is the logic of say a person living 27 years of 'sins' and dies, thus staying in hell forever when he dies? Versus another person who dies at 16 and, since he/she didn't live such a sinful life, 'goes to heaven'.

The system is flawed and illogical. One can only learn and experience so much in one life time to only be judged to go up or down somewhere forever, either great pain or pleasure.

The system of heaven and hell is NOTHING but a fabrication of nonsense by religious leaders. If you do your proper research, you will find about the countless atrocities that the Catholic Church has done to people as well as the bible. Needless to say, if what I say is meaningless you in truth do not know the absolution of the bible because it has been rewritten thousands of times. Maybe once the bible was pure and true to its word and spoke of what is 'really' beyond the afterlife, but now we live in a day full of shadows and lies.

A religion that places fear among you is not a true spiritual path. Our life isn't meant to "Praise the Lord! Praise Jesus, Praise the father God!" What are we learning?

Life is about learning the true meaning of unconditional love for all. Not just straight people (and as a sidenote, the spirit has no gender), not just religious people, but for all. Everyone upon this planet is ignorant, and that isn't even enough for ME to damn someone to eternal torment because it is illogical. Every soul can learn, especially in more than one lifetime. I would recommend you reading the stories, documentaries, and studies of what is really beyond death: www.near-death.com At that site, you can read the stories of every individual of all kinds who have died and come back. Homosexuals, celebrities, atheists. And it'll show you how very different it is from modern religious ideals. Then again, you could consider the hundreds of stories shared here to be false. That is entirely up to you. After all, your beliefs creeate your reality.

I don't think any of this matters.

God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.

(please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)

Originally Posted by Soul_Sleeper

I don't think any of this matters.

God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.

(please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)

*yawn* you stated your opinion without offense, but with great cynicism.

I hope you die.

I don't think any of this matters.

God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.

(please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)

Well, it's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's another to make it seem like your imposing your opinion and stating it as if it is a fact. But nontheless, I am not flaming you. It would've been more appropriate for you to simply state you don't believe in most of this stuff, and if that's being said why are you even taking the time to post in this topic if you do not believe in it?

*yawn* you stated your opinion without offense, but with great cynicism.

I hope you die.

Lol, don't get too personal (unless you're being sarcastic about death). Best you can do is hope he inevitably becomes enlightened.

I said not to flame me.

I think death threats are flames.

My turn: Naruto is for little fruity suburban kids.

That is all.

Originally Posted by durza2016

I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know.

Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.

Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not.

Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.

I'm sure there are accounts of people being in more than one place at once in the Bible. How is this explained? Astral Projection doesn't seem that much different from being in two places at once. Prophecy and Clairvoyancy is also mentioned in the Bible is it not? Surely these things involve a part of you leaving your body.

Sai Baba is a modern day example of someone that could supposedly be in more than one place at once. Is that an advanced form of Astral Projection?

I wouldn't know since I haven't experienced it, but I believe the experience at least is real. I believe that people experience something. Laberge and Green believe that OBEs are Wake Induced Lucid Dreams. If that is true then an OBE is surely not a sin. It is simply a dream.

However, I'm not so convinced. I think they might be more than dreams.

I'm interested to hear from people that have had many lucid dreams (especially WILDs) and also OBEs. I'm interested to know from such people if the OBE experience was clearly different from a WILD. Could you (for example) change the environment around you like you can with a lucid dream?

Originally Posted by Absolute

Well, it's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's another to make it seem like your imposing your opinion and stating it as if it is a fact. But nontheless, I am not flaming you. It would've been more appropriate for you to simply state you don't believe in most of this stuff, and if that's being said why are you even taking the time to post in this topic if you do not believe in it?

qft.

If you didnt want to get in a flame war then dont say things in such a way that they are fact. He distinctly asked that people who dont believe to not try to say these things arnt real, because he has heard it all ready. So please refrain from sounding like you are right and everyone else is wrong and if you feel the need start your own topic.

now on topic. I dont believe it is against Gods will. As some have stated, anything that is a sin beyond what the bible states is a fabrication that religious leaders have come up with like the elastic clause in the constitution. I myself am a deist but I think you have a right to find out what exactly goes for or against your religion.

That is a very good point. Idon't think it's a sin anymore. But I also, can't say that when your in AP you see everything as it normally is. I know AP is real, I've done it. But now i'm trying to figure out if you can go to someone's house. Later wake up and tell them what they were doing.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying I've done AP, but I haven't got that far yet.

I myself am a deist but I think you have a right to find out what exactly goes for or against your religion.

Interesting... Pardon my ignorance but I've never heard of a 'deist'. What is it?

But now i'm trying to figure out if you can go to someone's house. Later wake up and tell them what they were doing.

Mainly it is just visualization. Just imagine the house of the friend you want to go to and picture yourself there. You should 'teleport' there, but be very careful. When you AP, be sure to envision a protective cocoon over you to shield from any entities entering your body. Also, I would recommend simply hovering around your house and outside of it to see how far you can go. Sometimes, some people can not AP the same distance as others and could risk disconnecting their silver cord.

I think it is not against god. If the near-death expirences are OBE how can this be against GOD? It seems is naturall and i want to know how to do it, but.. It wouild be nice if i had a guide of something like that May be i should read at google. Is there a "how to get OBE" thread here?

there are a few definistions of a deist...but in general it is someone who believes there is a higher power, but the higher power gave us free will and thus does not directly effect anything in our lives. So you could say it is just over the believing line from agnostic. I didnt even know people who think this way were called deist until earlier this year.

Some deist beileve that the higher power has just turned its back on us, but I dont go in to that dark of a thought. I simply think that if there is any higher power he or she gave us free will and expects us to live in a way that helps others. No rituals, no anything, just life with all the good and bad it has to offer, it is up to us to make the miracles.

i dont think that Ap is against God's will. simply because some ppl can AP naturally. why should God have given them this ability if its a sin? sitll, i'm not really sure...

Could a deist be classified as a gnostic (opposite of agnostic)? Or is there a more precise definition of a gnostic?

Seil 4:23

"I tell you the truth: Divide not your spirit and body, for this is unholy to you. The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit. Attempt to reach heaven before your time, and you shall be denied it then and for all time."

^ isn't that referring to suicide? Doesn't matter cuz I dont believe in god anyways.

I cant believe this dude that created this thread didn't capitalize God... you just messed up big time, gods gonna smite you.

The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit.

By LORD don't you mean Yahweh?

Originally Posted by Absolute

Could a deist be classified as a gnostic (opposite of agnostic)? Or is there a more precise definition of a gnostic?

as far as I know, you could. but idk if gnostics believe that the deity(ies) have put their backs to us or not...I guess that is up to the group

Originally Posted by Soul_Sleeper

I don't think any of this matters.

God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.

(please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)

..........

LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!!!