Whats the difference between an OBE and an NDE??? I know OBE you can practise and learn to do it more easier. Is there a way to get an NDE without almost dying lol??
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Whats the difference between an OBE and an NDE??? I know OBE you can practise and learn to do it more easier. Is there a way to get an NDE without almost dying lol??
well it depends on what you believe. i personally dont believe that an OBE can be practiced. im not sure i even believe their real. an NDE is a spiritual or religious experience where the patient might see dead relatives, old friends or religious figures. while an OBE is the perception of your consciousness. "floating" outside your physical body. A lot of NDE’s start out with an OBE. i dont think you can have an NDE without going close to death. i mean they are called Near Death Experiences :P.
some scientist believe that they can induce NDEs by stimulating certain portions of the brain. but these experiences are different in many ways from a normal NDE's.
but your going to die someday and if they are real you’ll have one then :D
An NDE can be explained scientifically, although no one knows if this theory is 100% correct.
Death is an experience never experienced before -- therefore, in response to the trauma of this new and strange experience, your brain starts to shut down. It starts malfunctioning, and sensory information is wrongly received. The "white tunnel" or "white light" people usually see is a sensation overload in the visual cortex. The feeling of flying or an OBE during an NDE is a result of many things: trauma to the brain, lack of oxygen to the brain, and spatial sensory information shutting down, giving you the feeling of "flying" around the room or something like that. Endorphins release and cause a euphoria, the sense of "calm" or "accepting" that people feel.
The "life flashing before my eyes" is a result of your brain trying to deal with the actual experience of the trauma: it has never experienced that before, so it scans your episodic memory in order to find something that it can relate to. Remember, episodic memory is stored chronilogically -- thus, your life is flashing before your eyes (when really it's flashing right behind your eyes, in the area where your "minds eye" resides).
This is only a little bit of information on NDEs available, the actual process is a lot more complex and frankly, no one has any idea.
An OBE won't take as long to explain: it's the sensation of leaving your body. No scientific proof is available for it, so no one really knows if it's true or not. A theory, though, is that your subconscious mind registers unconscious cues in relation to the room your in and other places you've been, as well as information from that room, etc, etc -- that's why you can float around and see the room and stuff. As to deeper experience into OBEs, no one knows :-\
Nothing can ever be explained 100% untill you're actually dead, Nothing. I don't care what "proof" you seem to think you have, it means nothing.
What makes you think you're going to even get any explanations once your dead? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
And to the original poster, I suggest doing a search on the forum for NDEs and OBEs, there have been SO many threads on this stuff lately. Please try doing a search before starting new threads. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
I mean you will either know, or never know because you're nothingness. it will be like all that blackness before you remembered anything.
yea, if there is no conscious existence after death you probably wont even be able to realize it, this is kind of the last "screw you" reality serves upQuote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
its humorous in a weird Horrifying way :lol:
Hey, atleast the skeptics can go "OH YEAH I WAS RIGHT!!!!". Oh wait, they can't. Kind of a weird way to be dead if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt5678
"I can feel like i am dying", then "goodbye" and then...nothing. Which would mean we have to be a mistake...life, i mean, if there is nothing after and i guess i would believe if there is no other life in the universe except us.
Gotta suck getting born and dieing minutes, or hours after you are born, and that's all you are deserved.:shock: That's why i don't believe in nothingness. But hell...if that's true what we are wasting our lives on believing on these forums, or even real life is a waste of time.
OBE's have been scientifically explained. It is likely that NDE's are due to the same phenomenon.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=46320
(Now maybe somebody will look at my thread, mwuhahaha!)
oh yes, i have seen that many times. its interesting and it shows a possible neuroelectrical mechanism involved in atleast some OBEs but i dont think it adequately explains the major questions, these artificial OBEs are similar to the natural ones. but the differences outweigh the similarities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
NDE researchers wrote a short paper that looks critically at this study
http://www.iands.org/research/import...the_brain.html
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Originally Posted by Matt5678
That's so cool! One day they will be able to turn that into a video game. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt5678
What are the major questions?
"Why do we have OBE's?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
"Are they really us, floating outside our body?"
"Do we have a soul that seperates from our body during an OBE?"
"What the hell is going on?"
Oh, those. I think they are taken care of, if you accept the scientific explanation.
i should have phrased it differently but what i meant was it doesn’t explain how some verified events are seen during some OBEs. these Artificial OBEs are pretty much just an OBE "like"experience, as described by patients and researchers. i think it is a huge mistake to say that OBEs are now "explained" without looking at the other research that has been doneQuote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
i have said before that there is a natural explanation for every aspect of an NDE/OBE ....but for every natural explanation there seem to be a dozen cases that defy it.
Yes i experienced it last night and i went on this websight to research if anyone else has had the same experience. At this point i may be the only one. I had an obe that was a nde but i was not near death and i know that doesn't make sense but it was a spiritual awakening beyond explanation. I will try to explain and i don't care if no-one believes me b/c i know it was true. As my "soul" left my body, i was taken "above" somewhere in another realm. I was spoken to by another being that i believe to be "God". I was not frightened but it was a strange feeling. When i was spoken to, there were no words, just a sense of communication between our existences that does not exist on this earth. I have just spent hours researching obe's and nde on the internet and i have learned many interesting things although i have yet to find someone else with a similar experience. I think it was some kind of wakeup call to my life. I knew what i was experiencing was what i would experience if i was dying while i also knew that i was not dying. I suppose i could have brought this all on by my subconcious but i just can't let myself believe it b/c it was so deep!! I have had deep strange dark re-occuring negative spiritual dreams b/4 but nothing positive like this. The other dreams were also an obe but not nde and some have referred to a sp. This was way differand and although it was very stange, it was not terrifying.
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Originally Posted by Moonbeam
What about:Quote:
Originally Posted by b12
"Where do 'we' come from?"
"Where do we go when we die?"
"What else are we?"
"What is everything?"
"What is time?"
"What is love?"
"Can we know?"
You can self induce an NDE with meditation. I daresay it takes a lot of practice though. You have to have excellent concentration to the point where you can ignore all the passing thoughts in your mind and keep your attention one-pointed on something. So you use a mantra and sync it with your breath, concentrating more on the sound of the mantra in your mind and totally not trying to control the breath at all. What happens then is you exhale and don't need to inhale for a while and it is effortless without pain or strain. The longer you do this the more breathless you become. Then you will your heart to slow down. The heart will be very slow by that point anyway because you are not breathing.
So that is basically it. Less blood flow to the brain produces loss of oxygen to the brain and the white light effect.
I feel that there may definitely be a spiritual component in all this, however. Certain intuitive experiences cannot seemingly be denied, like having your dreams come true at a later date.
You can try shooting yourself in both feet and both arms. Lay down on your back and I bet you'll have a NDE.
(How would you shoot both your arms off....?)
One way you can get an NDE is to smoke DMT crystals. I've never done this before, but from what I've read and heard about it, it basically is an induced NDE. One of the chemicals your brain releases en masse when you die is DMT, and it is released to a smaller degree during dreaming. What the "trip" has been decribed as is first having an OBE, and you begin to see very real imagery all around you (different things for different people, but its all as real as the keyboard I'm typing on to you). People have then reported being thrust forward past some sort of plane and entering a tunnel with a light at the end. When they reach the end, there are always people of some sort there (they've been reported as everything from deceased loved ones to angels and even gnomes). They are trying to calm you down and say "come with us" or what not. When the trip is over they supposedly say things like "You have to go now, please come see us again" or whatever.
It sounds crazy and I'm not really sure that I want to try it, but it almost seems like the NDE is a part of our brain to soothe us into death (or to the afterlife if you belive in it). Google or YouTube DMT and theres a bunch of info on it. One guy names Terrance McKenna has a few youtube videos about it up.
a spiritual experience DOES NOT have to be separate from a physical experience. it is only the human ego, in the spiritual sense, that sees the two as separate.
the human soul is the same as the human consciousness. heaven is a state of consciousness, not a place. showing how the brain can be in an altered state of consciousness is not proof that spiritual reality isn't real.
so you give the person the drug. they have an NDE. things happen in the NDE that can easily be explained by biological processes. But I do remember reading about a drug induced NDE, where the person has conversations with deceased family members AFTER the white tunnel and all that jazz.
the scientific explanation is - hallucination. but even hallucinations require an active brain.
the scientific stand point is, NDEs are not spiritual in any way what so ever, and it is entirely in the brain.
my first problem with this is
1. don't say something isn't spiritual if you don't know what it means. spiritual is not separate from physical. it is the human ego making you believe it is separate
2. they made a very strong conclusion without explaining all NDE phenomenon. including - witnessing events outside of your body testified to be true by others- having logical conversations, having logical thoughts, having bloody hell A CONSCIOUSNESS when your brain is shutting down
is it not logical to conclude, if your brain is shutting down, and if the conciousness is a brain function - then your thoughts will be affected?
IF, the human consciousness is nothing more than the acts of a physical brain, why are people with NDEs even whole fully conscious of the event WHEN THE BRAIN IS SHUTTING DOWN? Why can they even think logical thoughts, WHEN THE BRAIN IS SHUTTING DOWN? Why can they hold conversations, WHEN THE BRAIN IS SHUTTING DOWN? Why can they objectively observe their memories, even make judgements on them? "I regret doing that" "I am proud of doing that" WHEN THEIR BRAIN IS SHUTTING DOWN. Why can they recall beautiful landscapes and intricate details WHEN THEIR BRAIN IS SHUTTING DOWN.
Why can they even CREATE and RETAIN new memories, the memories of the NDE experience, when the brain is shutting down?
If the brain is shutting down, if consciousness is an action of the brain, then it is logical to conclude CONSCIOUSNESS SHUTS DOWN.
But it bloody doesn't in NDEs. Read REAL NDE experiences. The consciousness does not shut down with the brain. They were still THINKING, FEELING, EXPERIENCING.
what does the scientific findings tell me? a chemical reaction in the brain transitions the consciousness, to prepare, exiting of the body. the drug merely mimics this chemical reaction, and may induce an actual OBE. thats what it tells me.
I don't get why they say because of stories people make themselves go through it, yet when talking about it the brain does the same thing, even before these storys. it's part of what it does. See a white light, feel a moving sensation, tunnel, etc. I bet seeing loved ones is the same process for everyone. You know you're dieing and wanna see them 1 last time, instead of you know your dieing and thinking "wait, i am supposed to see my family" then bam, you see it. I think it's more of "this is the way it's supposed to be", then add ons or else the white light, the moving sensation, the tunnels, etc are not from a dieing brain, but from peoples expieriences. The whole thing is what it is supposed to do, so it does it. You see the family, you see the light, you see the tunnel, you go up it. Brain goes through this because it's dieing, not because someone in their life said 'this is supposed to happen". Who knows of they are real, would be nice but in todays world it seems more magical and fake then anything, although only because how we get brought up, so it does not mean it's fake, it could be real but you're used to a different way of thinking.
Yes very interesting about DMT. Apparently, our third eye, which science calls the pineal gland, and in which many cultures is believed to be our link to our soul and the spiritual world, acutally produces DMT naturally.Quote:
Originally Posted by mfratt
You can increase production of DMT by total sensory deprivation for prolonged periods of time. The Egyptians, like many other cultures, have practised this. The piramids are full of sensory deprivation tanks, and you'd even think they are built for this purpose. The Bible also made a huge reference to this. Jesus who was locked up in a cave for 3 days. After a period of sober lifestyle, which we call lent or fasting. This is the exact method a lot of cultures used to get "reborn" and this is exactly what the Bible says. Thats the true purpose of Eastern. After this experience of total darkness and deprivation of all your senses for 3 days, you are reborn.
If your two eyes don't receive any (sun)light for a long time, DMT production and melatonin will be increased. This happens when you are asleep, and these are the chemicals that cause your dreams. But when you prolong it for a very long time DMT and melatonin production keep increasing and you get forced into an OBE or NDE. After this process, you are litterally reborn.
Or you can always take in DMT yourself and take the shortcut.. I'm sure going to expirement with this in the future
one of the reason why I got interested in the stories of NDE *and Ive read hundreds* was that things did not happen as the individual thought they would necessarily happenQuote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
for example - several traditional christians were shocked when they were told God was not sending anyone to hell, contrary to christian belief
or when a traditional christian, witnessed past life events. or even plans out their next reincarnation, until they get the news "youre going back"
or when a jew was met by Jesus, and was surprised at himself for being so happy to see Jesus
or when the atheist found himself in heaven, a WTF moment because every christian had told him, he was going to hell. he was a very happy.
of course, some christians pass off all NDEs as the work of the devil. Since it insists God is not sending anyone to hell and reincarnation, which they view was anti-christian. Some have also said the Jesus figure greeting both atheists and other non christians, radiating love and saying things like "not sending to hell, I LOVE YOU" is no other than lucifer in disguise ._.
* not everyone experiences a tunnel, or light, or deceased family members, some experience a VOID. a black void. and some are either at absolute peace in this void, or absolute fear. some said they felt alone. others felt they recognized a presence. God, but also, God was simultaneously them. the void is unexpected, compared to the tunnel. the void experiences are interesting because the person always realizes there is something in the void - there own consciousness. the void tends to be an unexpected experience, since we always hear about the tunnel
* the tunnel didn't always happen automatically. some witnessed the tail end of the tunnel in the room, and they had to walk into it to get anywhere.