How do you explain...

Scientifically One of those things where you can have a group of people
and they conjure up a spirit (like materialize infront of you)? like i hear they do at spiritualist churches (Take this with a grain of salt as its just a website but hear they talk to people aswell). I just wanna know the scientific term for this without "mass hilusination" because that would be....impossible. You can't all have the same hilusination at the exact same time all the time. I been wondering about this for a long while so i figure i might aswell ask.

I can't wonder about how it's done unless I see it with my own eyes first. How do you know this website isn't full of BS?

I dunno how it's done, last church( and only...forever) i was at i lasted 4 days at(age 12)....a christian church i was forced to go to against my will.:(
Anyway i said take it with a grain of salt, it was clips from a website of dead people talking about everything in the spirit world, but i heard about the materializing infront of groups of people from spiritualists who attend the churches.

Sounds like a summoning ritual if they were conjuring spirits. What type of church was this now? If it was Christian then they're acting as hypocrites if they're practicing the arts of the Old Ways.

I believe it is a form of delusional psychosis.

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Originally Posted by Absolute

Sounds like a summoning ritual if they were conjuring spirits. What type of church was this now? If it was Christian then they're acting as hypocrites if they're practicing the arts of the Old Ways.

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Spiritualist churches do this.

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Originally Posted by Korittke

I believe it is a form of delusional psychosis.

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All at the same time?

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

All at the same time?

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Surely delusion and psychosis are more typically inclusive than mutually exclusive. Take Schizophrenia as an example.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

You can't all have the same hilusination at the exact same time all the time.

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Actually, you can. Without getting into my own personal experiences, I once saw a news report on kids doing Datura. The had these two kids in the police station, and they seemed to be having the same hallucination, talking with the same people.

At one point, one of them pulled an imaginary pack of smokes from his pocket while the other wasn't looking. He put one smoke in his mouth, and handed another to his buddy, who seemed to know what it was. His buddy pulled out an imaginary lighter, and lit up both of the smokes, and they sat there smoking like a couple of professional mimes.

Trying to get more info so i can explain myself better then i have.

I don't think they use drugs to do this, but i'm asking anyway. i know drugs make fake images in your head and make it seem real. Although isn't what we see with our own eyes just images from our head from the chemicals in our brain? I'm not very educated on the subject.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Scientifically One of those things where you can have a group of people
and they conjure up a spirit (like materialize infront of you)?

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Two words: They don't.

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...like i hear they do at spiritualist churches (Take this with a grain of salt as its just a website but hear they talk to people aswell).

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You'll need a lot more than a grain to mask that bad taste. You heard wrong. You heard the tale they (some one) want(s) you to believe.

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I just wanna know the scientific term for this without "mass hilusination" because that would be....impossible.

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You want the truth? You can't handle the truth :D

It simply does not happen. That's not the way the world works. If you want to try to believe then go ahead but think about it before you commit to magical explanations for waking world happenings. Myths like that often start with wishful thinking and metaphoric mis-interpretation.

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You can't all have the same hilusination at the exact same time all the time.

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Probably not in the way you're thinking, no. But mass hysteria is a very real phenomena and large crowds can think something happened that didn't happen. At least, not in the way it was perceived.

In the case of the church, it's nothing more than a barrel of BS with a dash of suggestion and wishful thinking.

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I been wondering about this for a long while so i figure i might aswell ask.

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Let not your little heart be troubled.

Well i got 1 answer sofar.

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I am not sure I am understanding this question properly, and don't know if your meaning 'group' as in mediums collectively and in general, or if you mean when a 'group' all see the same thing at once. I also don't know what datura is, but surely you don't think all mediums are taking drugs (coz they certainly are not) so we'll go for some other explanations/clarifications.

Clairvoyance happens both objectively and subjectively.

Subjective, which is the most frequent way, is basically seeing an image in your mind the way you would if you deliberately tried to imagine/picture something, tho it is usually a lot more vivid than it would be if you tried to picture something deliberately. Sometimes it is like glimpsing snap shots, sometimes it is like viewing mini film clips. If tuned in together, it is possible for more than one medium to see an image.

Objective is also done with the mind, however the image appears to be projected in to your external field of vision so appears in front of you. Barring a small proportion of incidents where I have seen spirits surrounded in blazing light, they generally just look like exactly like people do, ... solid, full color, animated. To me they don't slowly manifest before my eyes, they are just there in a split second. More than one medium can see an objective image at once too.

Manifestations as seen in physical phenomena, do not require clairvoyant vision and can be seen by everyone present medium or not, ... and none of these types of incidents involve anyone taking any drugs or other substances. Of course I can't vouch for every person in every incident, so of course some individuals may have done that, but it is not a standard practice, you don't rock up to circle and pass the drug plate around (lol), and when others who have not, or more likely - everyone who has not, can see the same thing anyway, it is not as tho it can be classified as a drug fuelled mass and shared vision.

Hope that answers your question

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/rant on/
I fought back some dark shadow thing that was inhabiting my old house.

My closest friend, in bed with me told me of the event the next morning.

Mass hallucination my ass.

You use that word to make everything better, to make you feel like this simple materialistic world is all there is.

A dog can hear things that typical humans cannot, Cats react to seemingly nothing. Wild animals run "Before" earthquakes. Its a matter of senses. What are you equipped to deal with? We are at the point of being able to perceive these things but not quantify them on instruments... I mean c'mon look at past science, the atom was thought up before it could be measured, as were X-rays and many others.

In most cases humans have had the unfallable ability to tune out extremely disturbing and chaotic memories, as if they never existed.


... /Rant off/

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Originally Posted by Serinanth

/rant on/
I fought back some dark shadow thing that was inhabiting my old house.

My closest friend, in bed with me told me of the event the next morning.

Mass hallucination my ass.

You use that word to make everything better, to make you feel like this simple materialistic world is all there is.

A dog can hear things that typical humans cannot, Cats react to seemingly nothing. Wild animals run "Before" earthquakes. Its a matter of senses. What are you equipped to deal with? We are at the point of being able to perceive these things but not quantify them on instruments... I mean c'mon look at past science, the atom was thought up before it could be measured, as were X-rays and many others.

In most cases humans have had the unfallable ability to tune out extremely disturbing and chaotic memories, as if they never existed.


... /Rant off/

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Well i'm trying to get a scientific approach for this 1 thing i posted about
, not to start anything against the believers. Anyway i've expierienced ALOT of stuff too, but who knows if it was real or not. Like hearing noises in basement followed by footsteps coming up the stairs towards me, then stopping behind me, then noises in the basement again. Also seen an image of a woman in pain reaching out to me for help and i been afraid of being alone at the woods at night since then, and many more including seeing a man wave and smile at me and walk/dissapear in the darkness, i followed him. Anyway we can't let somethings that we cannot explain a paranormal event even if it was as real as heck, brains are beyond powerfull and should not be dismissed nomatter what.

The whole dog/cat thing. They can sense things we cannot sense, like maybe a guy is breaking in nextdoor and we don't hear it but they do. They look at walls and bark or growl but it's sounds they don't like most likely. My old dog once growled in the dark so i walked into the dark to check around outside. We think animals sense the paranormal but we don't know. We know they can hear sounds ALOT better then we can.


I don't wanna sound like a typical close minded person but i'm just giving the other side it could possibly be without going paranormal.

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Originally Posted by Serinanth

/rant on/
I fought back some dark shadow thing that was inhabiting my old house.

My closest friend, in bed with me told me of the event the next morning.

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So someone witnessed you acting out your dream. It's not unheard of. But that doesn't prove you "fought back some dark shadow that..." I mean, you'd think that if you were up and about, fighting off demons, you'd remember something. Hmm, let's see: Nocturnal fits manifest in physical movement, amnesia... yup, sounds like a dream to me. Ask anyone who knows anything about night terrors, sleepwalking or any part of the entire field of somnambulist activities.

http://www.thebrgs.homestead.com/philipexperiment.html

Was given this in the thread called "The Phillip Experiment". Take it for what you will...real or some type of special ability.

You dont fight a shadow with your fists ;)
I did not get up nor did I stir.

She thought I was asleep, Druidic teaching goes on about using light as a shield as a means of communication, of weakinging the world walls, you know the druids were the worlds first hippies? They developed the black light =D Called them a PelanTan they hung blue blown glass spheres with black candles in them in trees and caves.

Anyways, I used the light shield stuff I learned and pushed the thing back and then drove it off. She told me of how the thing came at us how it was stopped tried to get closer and was then pushed back and dissipated.
I couldent see the thing, I just felt it and thats exactly what I perceived.

So I was not asleep, nor was I sleep walking. Quite a few people mentioned how that room was "Not right".

Heh, I found this interesting too. My landlord came in the house and saw I had candles in my room, and he got all nervous and rambled on about me getting wax all over the place and that I had not get it all over the wood floor like the last people. I wondered if some one preformed some ritual and let something loose in there? I duno thats speculation but who knows.

As for people creating ghosts and stuff I wouldent be surprised.

That sounds more of those dreams where you meet your match in a fight then something that really happened. A DC that gives you a run for your money
.

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Originally Posted by Serinanth

You dont fight a shadow with your fists ;)
I did not get up nor did I stir.

She thought I was asleep, Druidic teaching goes on about using light as a shield as a means of communication, of weakinging the world walls, you know the druids were the worlds first hippies? They developed the black light =D Called them a PelanTan they hung blue blown glass spheres with black candles in them in trees and caves.

Anyways, I used the light shield stuff I learned and pushed the thing back and then drove it off. She told me of how the thing came at us how it was stopped tried to get closer and was then pushed back and dissipated.
I couldent see the thing, I just felt it and thats exactly what I perceived.

So I was not asleep, nor was I sleep walking. Quite a few people mentioned how that room was "Not right".

Heh, I found this interesting too. My landlord came in the house and saw I had candles in my room, and he got all nervous and rambled on about me getting wax all over the place and that I had not get it all over the wood floor like the last people. I wondered if some one preformed some ritual and let something loose in there? I duno thats speculation but who knows.

As for people creating ghosts and stuff I wouldent be surprised.

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Hmmm, so you were lying there, didn't move, and your friend thought you were asleep. So how exactly were you fighting this thing off - with light?

I'd have to assume you were sound asleep, dreaming like there's no tomorrow. More correctly, SHE was sound asleep and was describing her dream to you.

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

At one point, one of them pulled an imaginary pack of smokes from his pocket while the other wasn't looking. He put one smoke in his mouth, and handed another to his buddy, who seemed to know what it was. His buddy pulled out an imaginary lighter, and lit up both of the smokes, and they sat there smoking like a couple of professional mimes.

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That's incredible...

I believe in mass hallucination. There's been experiences. I can't even explain it.

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Originally Posted by b12

That's incredible...

I believe in mass hallucination. There's been experiences. I can't even explain it.

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I believe in mass hallucination but only when the time comes for it. If you're all stranded and no food/water in days you're bound to all see some crazy things that are in your head, or i'm sure a group can be hypnotised to see things, or if you're beyond scared your imagination does all the work when there really is nothing to be afraid of as it's all in your head. I don't believe there is an answer for everything, though. If there is an answer for everything that's kinda...trying to make people feel safe from the real truth, whatever that may be. We can't explain everything, and if people think we can they need to be slapped around with a large trout[/mIRC], there can be things beyond us, just like things beyond our imagination and no explenation needed because you can't even imagine it so how would you even have an answer for it?

*cries* I had a good reply written out... I forgot about the stupid timout thing and it all went poof...

So this is a shorter version of what I wrote.

I'm gona say it once more we were both awake. I know this world from the Dreaming, I've been living in both, so to speak, for a very long time.

This was an experience of mine that changed the way in which I perceive the physical world, no one likes to have people shooting up their experiences but hell in this case its understandable.

I do appreciate the logical approace to it though, alot of people dont dive in and ask the simple questions that can give you logical answers to a situation. Trust me, I went through all of them If I could beleive that this was simply a dream then my life would be alot simpler and much more peacefull.
But its not.

And yes, I pushed it back with light, with will, whatever you want to call it.
How else would you fight something that you can feel more than you see.

:horse:


So back to Mass hallucination. Any of you heard of the 100th monkey effect or the .. crap whats it called... Its some kind of unifying field regarding living things.
So there is some discrediting data bout the 100th monkey effect take a look into it though, interesting stuff. As for the unifying field theories (not ZPE) I have always been a fan of Mr Lovelock's Gaia theory.

Never heard of it, sorry. I don't look up much anyway.