Thread: Scientifically Created OBEs

Well, it really is interesting, but I could easily induce OBEs in lucid dreams. I don't believe i nany astral bullshit, but your brain does indeed rationalise the sensation of being out of your body. No wonder people find them so real.

I'm interested on the note regarding "virtual reality applied to games". OMG it should be so cool

I can't wait for those games to come out. I guess if this is true this puts an end to OBE believers and more science people? If they can make all sensations come together like NDE then what will happen to religion, and afterlife believer people?

deny the evidence, as they always do

Evidence on both sides, it's up to the person to believe it as true or false.


i dunno what i'll believe, hell i dunno what to believe anymore. lots of people put up good debates for both sides.

Believe what you want to believe. Ususally if it's based on personal experience, then it's your truth, and who can argue that?

Different people have different experiences though. I guess it's no wonder people are so unreceptive to what other people see as the truth.

Believing what you want to believe is turning a blind eye to what thinsg really are. Not everything is what we want it to be - but we can still enjoy it.

You might have an experience that seems real to you, and you consider it true... but hey, that is exactly like a non-lucid dream. We believe it is actually happen, but when we wake up... it wasn't real.

(Please don't come talking abou how dreams ARE real, just like reality. That way of philosophy leads the discussion nowhere. You know what I want to convey here.)


People have the urge to believe that their dreams and desires are possible. Yeah, I've always wanted to fly. But it doesn't mean I believe in psionics just because it says you are able to fly.

Remember how the people in the scientifical study here felt like they really were out of their bodies - it was only their brain making it look that way. In a dream, if you can see your own body, then your brain immediately assumes you must be somewhere else than your body. This perception can feel so real, but it is only your brain making it look that way.

It doesn't explain the other things, like going to a waiting room and finding people crying and saying stuff only for it to be real, what exactly the doctors are using, people like your uncle or aunt or w/e talking to you saying goodbye and stuff and when you come back to physical reality you just find out they passed away. I dunno what to make of that,though. Also i don't see how your brain can make a "fake" you if you wanna call it that above your body since you cannot see what you cannot see.People may call it a dream but there is far too much we don't know. How can the brain make you float and see these things? how can you see family that just passed away as you went under and you never knew? how do you
know whats going on in the room? the talking part in the room can be explained because you can still hear, just like in a coma you still hear what's going on sometimes and hear peoples voices. But what about the people far away? down the hall, or go on rooftops of hospitals and see things and prove they are real when they come back? you can't exactly call it "couincidence" with a strait face. Not every OBE is real, sure, but maybe some are. Some i'm sure are just dreams that seem real, i've had tons and tons of non lucid dreams that i thought were real, hell i've had some i woke up from i was confused where i was at because this place seemed like itwas not real after the dream i just had, etc. Anyway science can't figure this out right now no matter how hard they try, just that they can induce an OBE.

ps- Imagine playing a war type game with the OBE machine. I wonder if you would feel everything so if you got shot you would feel as if you got shot and feel pain.

You talk about it like it was the most illogical thing. What you are seeing now? your brain is creating it. It's not your eyes creating what you see - they only guide your brain to what there really is outside. Your brain is what creates the image.

You are just fooled by coincidence. Behind the cases where crude chances were met, there is a thousand situations where they weren't met. You always hear people "Oh, I dreamt this and that and it happened!", but you don't hear people say "I dreamt this and that and it didn't happen!"

We have around 5 dreams per night. That means 1825 dream in an year. So, if you have like, one dream in you saw the future? You still had 1824 dreams in which you didn't.

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No, you wouldn't feel pain in that game, unless they managed to connect the wires to your brain or nerves - otherwise they would have to hurt your body. But your brain would still rationalise the pain and make it feel real.

Your dreams seemed real because you were uncoscious at the time. Your brain is far more powerful than it seems. You can actually see as detailed as, or maybe more detailed than in reality, just out of imagination.


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If you believe OBEs are real, your brain will make it feel that way in a dream, for obvious reasons. Science does explain dreams - if you choose to deny the evidence, it's up to you.

You didn't answer my question, what about the things science can't explain about OBE's? i talked about dreams after, and i didn't deny anything, i'm just giving other things to think of. Nobody knows nothing, we just go by what we think is right. We are more aware of how things operate then say a thousand years ago, and a thousand years from now we will know even more. I don't like to rule out things i don't know out. I'm not choosing to deny the evidence on both sides, i just wanna know the truth like everyone else.

Anyway with what you said you suggest life is a virtual reality video game. Brain creates everything we see, so this is not real, i'm not real, our expieriences are not real, you're not real except what my brain decided me to see you type.

No, it's not like that, you misundertood me.

Your eyes do indeed get information fo what you see. But the task of interpreting them, and allowing you t oobserve things, understand them, and act upon them, is all on your brain. It's more or less liek a computer: the processor sends information about the graphics that have to be created (eyes), and the graphics board interprets the signals, and creates the graphics for display (brain).

If you are able to see your keyboard using your eyes, then your brain is equally able to recreate when you aren't actually lookign at a keyboard.

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By the way, what can't science explain about OBEs? How real they feel? How one person heard what was said in a waiting room? How thousands others didn't? I'm not closing my eyes to what I don't know, I just choose not to believe what doesn't have (logical) evidence in its support.

Well i'll let someone more expierienced then me go on further, i'm not really edumacated in either areas.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

By the way, what can't science explain about OBEs? How real they feel? How one person heard what was said in a waiting room? How thousands others didn't? I'm not closing my eyes to what I don't know, I just choose not to believe what doesn't have (logical) evidence in its support.

You are wrong. Science relies on factual evidence, not logical.

As the definition of OBE is experimenting something non-physicial (out of body), then there's no way, at least now, to get factual evidence about it with science usual mesurements, unless the out of body is also physicial. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Therefore it's just a matter of interpretation, not what is right nad what is not.

This is exactly why people should not believe everything they see. They miss stuff alot on DV and everywhere else by the looks of it.

Well, maybe scientists aren't able to reproduce yoru concept of OBE - that of really being out of your body. I'll not rely on the arguments for it being completely false, since it doesn't come to what we are discussing now.


If scientists are able to recreate what you experience during a supposed OBE scientifcally (and not by actually getting yo uout of your body), then it's a great evidence if favour of it al being only in your head. I doesn't exclude the possibility of "real" OBEs, but for those I've also got arguments

I'm pretty sure this an old article. I've seen or read something very similar to it a few months ago. Anyway, this doesn't disprove OBEs. It certainly doesn't prove them either. The major difference between this experiment and traditional OBEs if the sensory input being received by the observer.

In this experiment, it sounds like this people are wide awake, and are being provided with sensory input from an outside source, where as an OBE, where does it come from? The brain? The Astral Plane? Who knows. The believer in the traditional OBE is no different in respect to those people who believe dreams are some kind of separate reality.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Well, maybe scientists aren't able to reproduce yoru concept of OBE - that of really being out of your body. I'll not rely on the arguments for it being completely false, since it doesn't come to what we are discussing now.


If scientists are able to recreate what you experience during a supposed OBE scientifcally (and not by actually getting yo uout of your body), then it's a great evidence if favour of it al being only in your head. I doesn't exclude the possibility of "real" OBEs, but for those I've also got arguments

If you mean me i mean people say 1 thing and people say a different thing saying they missed such and such in their arguement, happens everywhere so i said this is why we should not believe what everyone says. I guess you really gotta believe what you wanna believe.

Aff man, believeing what you want to believe is closing yoru eyes to the bitter truth and choosing the sweet way to go. Believing what you want to believe is accepting that your beliefs will most probably be (scientifically) false.

And blade5x, I don't think experienced people actually believe dreams are "journeys out of your body", unless they are those kidn of people who believe what they want to believe.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Aff man, believeing what you want to believe is closing yoru eyes to the bitter truth and choosing the sweet way to go. Believing what you want to believe is accepting that your beliefs will most probably be (scientifically) false.

And blade5x, I don't think experienced people actually believe dreams are "journeys out of your body", unless they are those kidn of people who believe what they want to believe.

No offense or anything but you sound like those christians, except using science. Please stop, i actually liked reading your posts.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Aff man, believeing what you want to believe is closing yoru eyes to the bitter truth and choosing the sweet way to go. Believing what you want to believe is accepting that your beliefs will most probably be (scientifically) false.

And blade5x, I don't think experienced people actually believe dreams are "journeys out of your body", unless they are those kidn of people who believe what they want to believe.

I guess what you are inherently saying that if we dont believe in science's postulates, then we are the ones 'who believe what we want t believe'.

Im sorry if I sound harsh, but as LucidFlanders said your attitude isnt different than the attitude of the Inquisition christians.

You see science is just another intepretation of reality, it's a metaphor because the use of language limits us to refer reality with metaphors. But metaphors like yours (scientific, religious, etc) are the worst of all, because they are the only ones who claim to not be a metaphor, and claim to be the only truth. Thus 'killing' the rest of the metahpors "for the sake of truth" (they even believe they are doing something good to ones who are "wrong").

And believe it or not, many of humanity's problems have arisen from this way of thinking.

Try reading some Nietzsche. You'll see how true power and creativity can only come from the plurality of interpretations. It is the weak men who hide behind their claims that they hold the only truth.

Lol first of all, I've indeed read some Nietzsche. And I believe his beliefs were really important at his age and setting.. but they turn completely immature (who am I to call Nietzsche immature?) after you experience ego loss (through meditation or otherwise).

Inquisition christians? Lol. You wish. The difference is i'd never kill anyone in the name of my beliefs. But you just must agree that believing "what yoiu want to believe" is closing your eyes to the bitter truth and choosing the sweet way of things. No, I do not mean the "bitter truth" is science, you interpreted that yourself. In fact, many scientists make the most silly mistakes, including Freud and Einstein, who although made awesome discoveries, also made the dumbest theories.

Yes, I do believe that science, although not flawless, is our best way of knowing things - but that is my opinion, you don't have to believe it. But you've got to agree that believing what you want to believe is seeing only what you want to see - which means choosing the beautiful way things look and denying evidence that shows you could be wrong.

Well you earlier said: "And blade5x, I don't think experienced people actually believe dreams are "journeys out of your body", unless they are those kidn of people who believe what they want to believe."

Where can science show wrong in believing that?

If scinece can't prove OBE's, that doesn't mean OBE's can't exist.

polmc, you are right about science not proving OBEs. But that doesn't make it immediately true. Actually, there is no way to prove somethign doesn't exist, so I don't think you've got a valid argument there.

There is something called "skepticism" - it consists of only believing things that have evidence in their favour, or things that follow some empirical logic.
Science does indeed not prove OBEs, and that's why I don't believe it.

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And back to the argument, you must agree "journeys out of your body" are pretty much some sweet beautiul explanation, made up by someoen who didn't want dreams to only be dreams. It again consists of believing what yo uwant to believe. It there really was a way to leave the "physical realm", then we'd be able to do it with machines. And don't go for the "only the soul leaves the body, machines don't have a soul" backup argument - if physical things cannot affect the "spiritual" realm, so can't "spiritual" things affect the physical realm.

So what are 'OBEs' for you?

Out of body experience - an experience that makes you feel or leads you to believe you went out of your body It doesn't mean you really went otu of your body, though.