DMT, Dreams and Sanity

[Jimmehboi]

I've always loved drugs, not necessarily to take them, but just to read about them, learn how they work etc. I have tried a number of different of purely natural drugs and I've known about DMT (DiMethylTryptamine) for some time and have a strong urge to find out more about it, but very little is actually known about it... The only stuff I find is basic information about where it comes from, how it can be taken, the price and the effects. A lot of stuff about this drug is generally junk science in my eyes, I have no idea if any of the stuff said about it is true, especially in this video I saw on YouTube of Joe Rogan talking about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8 If you can't be bothered watching it, he basically says- DMT is frequently produced in the pineal gland. Everytime you sleep your brain produces large doses of DMT. While you're in deep REM, you are on a psychedelic trip. The way we dream and wake up and forget, the effects are the same as a DMT trip. If you don't dream then you will go crazy and die It probably isn't true that you trip while in a dream, most of you here will have read into dreams and maybe you can tell us that dreams are your subconcious. Also, effects of DMT sound quite different to dreams. So yea... Discussion? Cheers =] Jim.

[mfratt]

I've heard a good amount about it, and I am indeed interested in giving it a shot. I have yet to take any psychedelics/hallucinogens other than salvia, but like you I do read up on a lot of different drugs, and as I understand it, the effects of many hallucinogens (even THC to an extent) are very similar to the effects of a dream...DMT especially. I'm just not sure if DMT would be worth it if you forget most of the experience right after its over.

[JollyRoger]

Never taken DMT though a good mushroom trip is seriously like a dream while awake, its insane!

[LucidFlanders]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE5S9mrE8Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8IElvtr3Pg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI59J...eature=related DMT is in every eco system, stuff like plants, grass, etc have it. The human brain has it, and as he says, big doses go through you when you sleep and when you die which could be part of the whole "death visions of heaven" thing. Atleast part of it. Whatever you do DON'T TAKE THIS DRUG LIGHTLY!!! by what i have heard, you need to study it and hear the stories for atleast a month before trying it. This drug will warp the fuck out of your reality, you wont even feel like a human anymore and you will see that we are just bacteria. DMT is illegal because stupid punk kids who abuse it, and the damn politics. Anyone who says it does nothing, or the trip is nothing is lieing, this is the most powerfull trip you will ever go on, for anyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUg21...eature=related

[Ryden]

Agreed with the above, don't take it lightly. It bothers me that some people use the whole "it occurs naturally in the brain" argument to attest to its safety. Adrenaline occurs naturally in the body too, but I wouldn't say it's safe to mainline five gallons of it. Same goes for freebasing a whole bunch of DMT. And whatever Joe Rogan says, its nowhere near the same league as the amounts that occur naturally. If the whole dream thing were true, it would mean that if your alarm clock woke you up in the middle of a dream you'd still be tripping balls well into your morning shower and part of breakfast. That's not to say that it can't be done, just don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you that it's the next most safe and natural thing besides dreaming.

[lucid4sho]

Joe Rogan is hardcore. He has a deprivation tank in his basement that he trips in. Visit DMT and other hallucinogens are proven to be released during REM. Some are even released when we are awake. The reason we aren't tripping every time we wake up is because these drugs are metabolized very quickly when you're in sleep mode, plus they are synergistic with the natural sedatives that keep us asleep. Some of the sedatives are not always metabolized as fast when we wake up, so a tired feeling can linger for awhile. The hallucinogens are instantly broken down whenever you wake up, if not you will wake up to a crazy trip, as many people do with certain sleep disorders. I've done dmt orally and smoked plenty of times. One reason its typically more intense than dreaming is because the sedatives that accompany sleep which normally suppress awareness are not present when you take external dmt. These days I don't use drugs very often because I can get free trips from practicing LDing that can be just as good or better. The only hallucinogen I can really suggest is some quality salvia extract since it is legal. I have a lot of experience with hallucinogens so if you have any more questions let me know.

[scubba]

Joe Rogan is hardcore. He has a deprivation tank in his basement that he trips in. Visit can really suggest is some quality salvia extract since it is legal.. Salvia is illegal now. Thanks to punk kids abusing it. But not that hard to find :p

[LucidFlanders]

Salvia is illegal now. Thanks to punk kids abusing it. But not that hard to find :p Legal here, you can just walk into a store and buy it. A guy on my MSN i used to know from work told me to never try it because of the trip. It's fucked, told him to never try dmt if he hates salvia, it's worse.

[lysergic]

dmt is produced in your brain so you'd think it'd be really safe right? the irony is that salvia comes from the earth and is much better. dmt is most certainly the harder trip but for fuck sakes, who needs a harder trip than salvia. that shit is INSANE.

[lucid4sho]

dmt is produced in your brain so you'd think it'd be really safe right? the irony is that salvia comes from the earth and is much better. dmt is most certainly the harder trip but for fuck sakes, who needs a harder trip than salvia. that shit is INSANE. DMT is in the brain and from the earth, it naturally occurs in many plants, even several that are native to N. America, the plant with the highest known concentration is Desmanthus illinoensis, AKA Illinois bundle weed, its very common in the US. I think its possible to artificially synthesize DMT, but thats rare, 99% of the time people are taking plant extracts. Salvia is now illegal in DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, KANSAS, MISSOURI AND NORTH DAKOTA. But I think for the most part that will be the extent of it.

[mfratt]

While we're on the subject of salvia, someone told me (it might have actually been lysergic) that you don't really gain much of anything from salvia...that its mostly for the trip and crazy hallucinations (as opposed to, say, LSD, where you supposedly have crazy insights). Is this true? I've been wanting to give it another go (did it once, no real affect - but I'm probably primed for it at this point). I was actually thinking of taking salvia a handful of times before jumping into LSD - at least to become partially familiar with the altered state of conciousness. Few more questions...is there any real danger to jumping into 45x extract? I'm not afraid of it...I want to have the best experience possible, but would that be wise? Should I really waste my time with 10x or 20x before going all the way with it? Oh, and is salvia safe to do alone for someone inexperienced with it? I would never dare to take LSD alone until I'm familiar with it, but is salvia the same way?

[lucid4sho]

I think salvia has tons of potential as an educator, though the experiences are often unpleasant for many people, including myself. A strong salvia trip is far more intense than a moderate lsd trip, it just doesn't last as long. As far as extract strength you have to be careful because most vendors lie about the potency, i would start with a good standardized 20x from iamshaman.com. You should definitely have a babysitter at least the fist 4 or 5 times you do it. It takes several days of smoking it before the body recognizes it, so you won't feel much at first. Some people have the tendency to just close their eyes and trip, but many will act out in unpredictable ways.

[eeeeee!]

I honestly can't wait to try some..

[Wattage]

Such synchronicity! I was researching this last night. I was thinking to myself, I really wish there was a thread about this on Dream Views. Nice. Agreed with some above posts... Salvia is just way out of this world. From what I have heard, it seems like DMT would be a much more meaningful trip. I just can't stand the pins and needles effect of salvia, it was like I was trapped in between two planes of existence. That in itself made the trip somewhat negative. Sounds like DMT is more of a dream like trip. Supposedly you can still think clearly and whatnot while on this, just "transferred or projected" to a different dimension of sorts. Apparently you are greeted by some sort of energy or beings. Absolutely amazing to try to comprehend without ever trying it. These things have to be taken seriously though.

[lucid4sho]

Past the point of break through, salvia and dmt have nearly identical effects. The difference is that if you fall short of that point with salvia it often causes terrible sensations, but dmt typically is pleasant, similar to a combo of no2 and lsd. When you first use salvia I suggest starting with a 20x so you will fall short of breaking through, because I think its important to learn from what the non-breakthroughs can offer and it helps you prepare for trying to go any further. Once you've done the 20x several times and if you are still determined to break through, then the only way to fairly consistently break through and not have to worry about the implications of using an maoi, is to get pure salvinorin, a good source is ethnogarden.com. Its expensive but its the only thing that will do the job more often than not. Breaking through on salvia imo is way more likely to be enjoyable then falling short, which for me can be catastrophic but always educational.

[eeeeee!]

For those experienced with Salvia, do you absolutely know when you have a breakthrough experience?

[lucid4sho]

Ya, breakthrough is comparabe to OBE. Though many people experienced with salvia have never reached breakthrough, because its hard without nearly pure salvinorin, which is uncommon. When you don't breakthrough with salvia the physical sensations can be very frightening, though it can cause hysterical laughing, or intense dream like hallucinations that can be pleasant. Typically a breakthrough is an amazing obe, sometimes the details are crystal clear in your memory, and sometimes the memory is fleeting. When you breakthrough most people collapse and close their eyes for a few minutes. When you don't you are more likely to act out in random ways.

[mfratt]

Ya, breakthrough is comparabe to OBE. Though many people experienced with salvia have never reached breakthrough, because its hard without nearly pure salvinorin, which is uncommon. When you don't breakthrough with salvia the physical sensations can be very frightening, though it can cause hysterical laughing, or intense dream like hallucinations that can be pleasant. Typically a breakthrough is an amazing obe, sometimes the details are crystal clear in your memory, and sometimes the memory is fleeting. When you breakthrough most people collapse and close their eyes for a few minutes. When you don't you are more likely to act out in random ways. If you set into it with the full intention of sitting/lying down through the duration of the trip, can one hold himself to that or will he likely wander off without knowing it/understanding the risks?

[Bearsy]

I was facepalmed through more than half this thread. I wrote up a huge post then Firefox froze and I had to restart it. And I said fuck it.

[mfratt]

I was facepalmed through more than half this thread. I wrote up a huge post then Firefox froze and I had to restart it. And I said fuck it.

[lucid4sho]

If you set into it with the full intention of sitting/lying down through the duration of the trip, can one hold himself to that or will he likely wander off without knowing it/understanding the risks? Its good to have the intention, I always suggest to people to sit in the dark and try to relax, but usually they forget as soon as it hits and start behaving crazily. Personally I tend to stay still other than random talking, everyone reacts different. I definitely think you need a baby sitter the first few times to figure out how you generally react.

[gaia]

Salvia can definitely teach you a lot. The peak effect is rather strong and very disorientating, but I found that during the comedown, focusing on thoughts becomes easier than during sobriety (in a similar, but more profound way than cannabis). Also, I strongly believe that this depends on the setting and the intention of the person taking salvia. Try doing salvia in a dark room, alone, or with a trusted, calm friend, and try meditating. I myself received considerable insights while doing this, and the aftereffect lingered on for about 1.5 hours after smoking. For other people, smoking the same stuff, but not in a relaxed environment, this was not the case - they experienced no aftereffects. I experienced no "breakthrough experience" and found the peak disorientating, and not profound. Although during the aftereffect, when most of the normalcy was restored, meditating became easier. So yes, salvia can be a good teacher, depending on the intention and setting.