Are there things that I can do to test whether Im in a LD or having an OBE?
Are there things that I can do to test whether Im in a LD or having an OBE?
I wish people would learn how to use the search button... *facepalm*
In an LD you can control everything.
In a OBE you can not.
Ive had lucid dreams my whole life which i cant control anything at all. But there still just lucid dreams im pretty sure. Not OOB experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by C911
Id assume if you want to tell if somethings a OOB experience or not, is leave a chat window up on your computer.
Have someone msg you after you goto sleep, then if and when you leave your body, walk/move over to the computer and see what msg they sent you.
If when you get up the msg is the same as the one you read when you left your body, it was a OOB experience, Otherwise it was just a lucid dream. Or a coincidence.
Id assume thats how it works.
OOB experience to me means that your soul literally leaves your body. Or your consciousness leaves your body.
You can't really tell the difference. They are not even two ends of a spectrum. They mix and match within a single experience.
I'd say it comes down to the degree of awareness and not letting your mind playing tricks on you. You can observe self-deception in lucid dreaming, you trick yourself and you want to be tricked. Give up on that and you will reach the OBE state within minutes.
Also, if you reach full consciousness in deep sleep (when cognition is not possible with the physical brain), will inevitably zap yourself into the OBE state.
The two above example are not necessary the same type of OBE as far as brain states are concerned. Ultimately, the brain state has nothing to do with OBE only with your ability to remember.
the way i tell if i am on the astal, is simply talk to someone... in most, i think in all my lucids i cant carry a conversation with the dc's that well, they dribble shit all the time! but on the astral in a different story!
The difference is, as i see it, this:Quote:
How do you tell the difference between a Lucid Dream and a OBE/Astral Projection
The belief system and world view of the person having the experience.
Everything else surrounding the subject is really just people trying to justify thier belief system.
In other words, those with a more modern scientific backgroud view these experiences as misinterpreted lucid or prelucid dreams. Whilst the new age and religious types will see it as confirmation that there is some kind of spirit world.
Personally im in the former camp, simply because it makes more sense and it dosn't require unproven or imposible to demonstrate assumptions about reality.
Dreams, hallucinations and unusual sleeping experiences are all proven, easy to record and common experiences that fit comfortably into what we know about the world.
Spirits, astral planes and a "soul", all require us to believe things that have no foundation in physics, biology, chemistry or psychology. Considering that we live in a world where we are all reliant on Science (just to have this conversation for example), it makes sense that we should accept that scientists are not stupidly missing some huge aspect to life, or hiding information from us.
So the difference? It's in the eye of the beholder.
Does astral projection really happen ??
Depends what you mean by "really happen"Quote:
Originally Posted by mariamay
My opinion (and the opinion of virtually the whole scientific world)
is that yes people experience these things, they feel as if they are leaving thier body. So on a perceptual level, the experiences are "real". However, when it comes down to the interpretation of what is really going on, that's where science and the believers diverge...
Science (and my own opinion) would say that these experiences are a form of dream, something related to a lucid dream... your brain is a master at modelling the universe.. we do it the whole time we are awake, and then we do it again whilst we dream. So it's not unlikely that sometimes people dream that they are leaving thier body... especially when those people already believe in a soul or spirit.
So people definitely have these experiences... just some people take the whole thing literally... they conclude that they ACTUALLY left thier body... rather than the simpler answer, that they just had some kind of mentally generated experience of leaving the body.
Simply put...
If i dream i win the lottery... It dosn't mean i won the lottery.
If i dream I leave my body... it dosn't mean i left my body.
However real the experience is... even if i am convinced at the time of the dream i won the lottery... I'll still wake up quite a bit poorer.
The dream is still a real experience, it's just a virtual experience. It happens only in our heads.
So really you have to ask yourself...
Which is more likely?
1) The brain doing what its really good at... making models of the world (dreams, hallucinations, our waking experience (because that is just a type of dream itself, one based on what our senses tell us))
Creating a virtual experience of leaving the body.
OR
2) An unproven, completely lacking in hard evidence, completely contradicting biology and physics "soul"... leaving the body and going to an unproven, completly lacking in evidence and contradicting physics "astral plane".
I'll hedge my bets with number 1 :P
Also, I dont think number 1 is the more boring answer.. in fact it is mind blowingly awesome... how amazing to know that our minds can create such real, convincing experiences, that are nothing more than mental software. How amazing are we as creatures to be able to do this! 6 billion years of blind evolution, creating us... these amazing powerful brains, capable of amazing mind boggling things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceexplorer
my head is a bit tired right now (think the couch and tv is calling for me) but give me a good nights sleep (and a few crazy dreams :lol:) ...and I'll try to come up with a third theory to add to yours first two... I KNOW I can ! just need to re-energize my brain cells...
:)
There is really no way to tell the difference, other than trusting your own interpretation of the experience. The places you visit in your sleep have only one connection to the places you visit while awake. That connection is you. The only things you can carry with you across the border are your own memories and experiences. Trust your self. It is the only thing that remains independent when you start labeling things as "Real" or "Imaginary".
1) The brain doing what its really good at... making models of the world (dreams, hallucinations, our waking experience (because that is just a type of dream itself, one based on what our senses tell us))
Creating a virtual experience of leaving the body.
OR
2) An unproven, completely lacking in hard evidence, completely contradicting biology and physics "soul"... leaving the body and going to an unproven, completly lacking in evidence and contradicting physics "astral plane".
OR
3) Your conciousness and subconcious mind melt together when in any state of mind besides the waking (dreaming, coma, meditating heavily etc) and thus you're mind becomes capable of so much more (like using a bit of the unexplored 90% of the brain). So working together now as a team, the subconcious mind can travel anywhere outside the body (sort of like when dreaming and we fly to distant places and such) while the concious mind is able to still have a firm grip of your body and therefore look at it from the subconcious level of placement (hence out of the body experience) .....you could also just call it a Lusid in Lucid dream......differs from normal LD by the specific braincells that are being used and how they are interacting. With 90% of unused brain, whos to say what these cells are for and what potential they withhold?
Okay maybe that was like an elaboration on your theory 1.....but still goes beyond just dreaming :-)
Nice try, but...
http://www.time-etc.com/2007/06/ten-...out-brain.html
:P
Damn Space ! You just have an answer for just about everything :DQuote:
Originally Posted by spaceexplorer
but oh....doesn'y mean the rest of it can't hold good as a theory :P