WILD in LD technique acc. to Castaneda

I found in one of the classics "The art of Dreaming" by Carlos Castaneda intriguing technique of getting asleep in LD in purpose of getting a "total perception".
It's a dialog between Carlos Castaneda and SHE - The Tenant - ageless sorcerer who resides mainly in different parallel realities (Dream worlds?)visiting sporadically REAL:

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“What exactly do you want to know?” she asked softly. “Explain to me what you mean by the twin positions, or the initial position in which a dreamer holds his body to start dreaming.” I said. “How do you lie down to start your dreaming?” she asked. “Any which way. I don’t have a pattern. Don Juan never stressed this point.” “Well, I do stress it,” she said and stood up. She changed positions. She sat down to my right and whispered in my other ear that, in accordance with what she knew, the position in which one places the body is of utmost importance. She proposed a way of testing this by performing an extremely delicate but simple exercise. “Start your dreaming by lying on your right side, with your knees a bit bent,” she said. “The discipline is to maintain that position and fall asleep in it. In dreaming, then, the exercise is to dream that you lie down in exactly the same position and fall asleep again.” “What does that do?” I asked. “It makes the assemblage point stay put, and I mean really stay put, in whatever position it is at the instant of that second falling asleep.” “What are the results of this exercise?” 143 “Total perception. I am sure your teachers have already told you that my gifts are gifts of total perception.” “Yes. But I think I am not clear about what total perception means,” I lied. She ignored me and went on to tell me that the four variations of the exercise were to fall asleep lying on the right side, the left, the back, and the stomach. Then in dreaming the exercise was to dream of falling asleep a second time in the same position as the dreaming had been started. She promised me extraordinary results, which she said were not possible to foretell.

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Has anybody come across smth like that or experienced falling asleep in LD?

Greetings All -

This is a very interesting, and hot topic for me. Within the last month, I have been devoting my lucid dreaming to exploring some of Castaneda's techniques. I have specifically been working with "seeing energy" in dreams. I have only been able to try out twice within the last month, but with very limited success. I know that sometimes these ideas can take a while before they can completely take hold in the dream state, so I plan to keep experimenting with this.

But what I want to relate here is that a few days ago, I became lucid in a dream, and tried the "Twin positions" technique for the first time.
When I became lucid, I found myself in in a building. I got the feeling it was some kind of dormitory or something. I walked in to a room with lots of empty beds, and I tried to remember what I wanted to do once I was lucid. I did not remember that I wanted to "see energy," but the beds made me remember the twin positions technique that Castaneda got from the "The Tenant" I immediately decided to try this. I walked over to a bed in front of me, and got into the same position I had fallen asleep in. After moment, a voice began speaking in my mind. It was speaking english, and I heard what it was saying, but it seemed peripheral, so I did not really try to understand what it was saying. In the next instant, my entire dream body felt the sensation that one gets when the astral body "slams" instantly back into the physical body due to a powerful repercussion. The only difference was that I did not end up back in my physical body. I was still dreaming! Lying in bed. Only now, there were a small group of people around me that seemed to know what was going on. I sat up and asked one of them (an Asian woman) if I had done it [meaning successfully used the technique] They indicated that I had. The woman and her companions were giving me their very careful attention. In the next moment, they helped me out of the bed I was in then put me in another bed next to it that had a bright red covering, and it seemed they wanted me to lay down again. I did, and in the next few moments the dream ended, and I "woke up" in my own physical bed.

This was a very interesting first experience with the Twin Positions technique. I believe the sensation of repercussion (which was not painful at all) was related to my consciousness locking into the dreaming position. I experienced a similar sensation (though less powerful) once when I was experimenting with another Castaneda technique that involved using your hands as a "point of departure," and exploring the dream aspects. Both of these techniques are meant to stabilize the dreaming position, or as Carlos Castaneda would say "fix the assemblage point on a particular dreaming position"
I think the voice that I was hearing may have been what Castaneda calls the "voice of seeing" or "the dreaming emissary"

For some reason, I think the people in the second dream wanted me to wake up, or return to normal dreaming. I believe that if I had gotten out of the bed and walked around in that dream, I would have had full cohesion -- My assemblage point would have remained fixed with very little conscious effort on my part.

I would be interested in hearing about any experiences other people have had with the "Twin Positions" technique.
~ Larther

I'm moving this to Beyond Dreaming. Carry on. ;)

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Originally Posted by Larther

Only now, there were a small group of people around me that seemed to know what was going on. I sat up and asked one of them (an Asian woman) if I had done it [meaning successfully used the technique] They indicated that I had. The woman and her companions were giving me their very careful attention. In the next moment, they helped me out of the bed I was in then put me in another bed next to it that had a bright red covering, and it seemed they wanted me to lay down again. I did, and in the next few moments the dream ended, and I "woke up" in my own physical bed.
~ Larther

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It sounds to me as if you became completely aware of your Guides (the small group of people around you).

The bright red covering is significant in that Red is the color of the Tonal. Your Guides were ushering you back to your Tonal self.

There could be several reasons for this. One is that you may not be quite ready for the experience you are seeking. They could also have been protecting you from something that you were not prepared to deal with that deeply exposed to the Nagual.

It may also be that you don't need to experience this in order to complete the lessons you need to learn in this experience and they were just trying to keep you from becoming distracted by "shiny balls."

I would practice achieving that same connection and simply asking them, first of all, who they are (I only suspect they're your Guides and Allies, they may be something else [though I doubt it]) and second, why they were resisting your attempt.

Hi Saxonharp

Thanks for your reply. If I encounter this group of people again after using the Twin Positions technique, I will ask them who they are, and why they led me to the bed with the red covering during my previous experience. I did not know that the Tonal was associated with the color red, but in retrospect, it makes perfect sense.
I will post here again if I get anymore results.
Have you had any experience with the Twin Positions, or any of the other techniques Castaneda describes?

~ Larther

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Originally Posted by Larther

Hi Saxonharp

Thanks for your reply. If I encounter this group of people again after using the Twin Positions technique, I will ask them who they are, and why they led me to the bed with the red covering during my previous experience. I did not know that the Tonal was associated with the color red, but in retrospect, it makes perfect sense.
I will post here again if I get anymore results.
Have you had any experience with the Twin Positions, or any of the other techniques Castaneda describes?

~ Larther

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One of my teachers was a student of Carlos Castaneda, so yes, I'm familiar with most of the techniques he described in his books and a few that he never did write about.

I don't practice the Twin Positions. My Dream Guide anchors my assemblage point for me in Dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Nihao

....Has anybody come across smth like that or experienced falling asleep in LD?

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nihao,
several years ago i succeeded in executing the manouver of the twin positions. the experience of waking up in the second dream was very much like having an OBE: i was very alert, and felt a kind of buzzing or tingling in my body - like a mild electrical current. i floated around a bit, examining the space i was in, then woke up.
i have forgotten most of the details of the dream, but the important thing is that i made a successful attempt. the experience really went a long way towards validating some of castenada's practices for me.
i think i'll try this again - it was a blast!

Castaneda!!!! What have I to think about him? I'm Italian (so, sorry for my English..) and here in the old Europe and in my little country a few knows his books and there wasn't been the big argue happened in USA so, what I think is only what I was able to deduce for myself... and it is not good. Maybe in the earlier there was something thrue or, however, that could open new way of thinking, but after the Don Juan's death it seems to be only a commercial trick. But.... I loved him, I've been reading and read again his books along my life since I was seven (!) and my mother bought to me his first book (of course, she didn't know what there were in those words...). And during all this time (I'm 46 years old) I've been wondering: is it thrue? So, yesterday reading his name I jumped from my chair! Did anybody of you guys reached some of what is described in these books? Expecially in the dream realm? Thank you to everybody!!
MH

To Larther and Nihao:

There are two threads that you both might be interested in. The first is "The Technique of the Twin Positions" and the other is "Energy hunting". That's the good news.

The bad news is they are both on the "Deep Dreaming" forum, which is a subset of "Beyond Dreaming", only visible to those who have applied for permission to access said sub-forum. You'll have to ask Admin for permission to view and contribute.

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Originally Posted by Naiya

I'm moving this to Beyond Dreaming.

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I just don't understand this at all. The OP was talking about an LD control technique, and you marginalise him/her?

Why? Could it be an innate distrust of Castaneda? I can't think of any other reason for moving the thread. The OP was just talking straight technique, nothing "paranormal" or "supernatural".

<Mystified>

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

I just don't understand this at all. The OP was talking about an LD control technique, and you marginalise him/her?

Why? Could it be an innate distrust of Castaneda? I can't think of any other reason for moving the thread. The OP was just talking straight technique, nothing "paranormal" or "supernatural".

<Mystified>

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I moved it here because when I read the OP, it seemed to be about a conversation with an ageless sorcerer who exists in many different parallel realities who gives a technique which involves stuff like "assemblage points" and gaining "total perception" which are CC concepts that are completely foreign to anyone who hasn't read the books. Since the books are BD material, this seemed like the best place for a thread to be in order to attract people who would understand and discuss it.

I can move it back, but only if the OP requests it.

Hmm...yeah I only skimmed over the posts but this seems like BD stuff to me. OBEs and astral bodies? Very BD. Moving something to BD is not marginalizing anyone. :? I guess it's all a matter of perspective though.

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Originally Posted by Naiya

I moved it here because when I read the OP, it seemed to be about a conversation with an ageless sorcerer who exists in many different parallel realities who gives a technique which involves stuff like "assemblage points" and gaining "total perception" which are CC concepts that are completely foreign to anyone who hasn't read the books. Since the books are BD material, this seemed like the best place for a thread to be in order to attract people who would understand and discuss it.

I can move it back, but only if the OP requests it.

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Well, Castaneda was talking with an ageless sorcerer IN DREAM. People talking to GODS in Lucid Experience forum. And as Oneiro said, the point is tech itself.

As for topic, some guy on Russian forums tried it, and it allowed him to get greatly stabilized dreams.