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    1. #1
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      Do you think reality is just an illusion, that we are the imagination of ourselves?

      there's been some theories according to the thread topic and i was wondering if any of you guys know about quantum physics and different levels of reality. share what you know and feel

    2. #2
      Dream Explorer Venomized Victim's Avatar
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      Well I don't know much about quantum physics, but I do have a theory about different levels of realities. To me, I believe that for every choice in the world that we could have made, but didn't, creates it's very own timeline parallel to the one that we experiance. In addition, I believe that every individual person resides within their own personal reality. The fact that we interact is simply because our realities all overlap eachother.

      To me, dreams are doorways into viewing those other alternate realities, giving us a glimpse of what could have been different about our lives if there had been just one change into what we encountered during our lives. It's a confusing theory I know, and it's hard to explain.
      Dreams I've had since joining this forum.
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    3. #3
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      For me, in subtle levels of reality what venomized victim is saying about "personal realities" is true, which is what makes it so hard for people to communicate there. That's why this plane was necessary, we needed a concrete stage. This reality is collective, and all of earth is tied to it. While there are multiple futures, there is only one present, and then multiple pasts as people can have different perceptions and outlooks of the past. Conceptual reality deals with the future and the past, and that is different for every human being. The present moment, however, is one experience. It is our collective imagination clashing against itself.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    4. #4
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      I don't believe in this because we don't know the true definition of reality. As far as I'm concern, we define reality by what we make of it and we can't give a definite meaning to something that is clearly subjective. There's no common ground here, since anything can be real to anybody. It makes me wonder if the concept of a "reality" even exist and not just totally made up.

      An illusion would be something that isn't there but appears to be. The problem is that we do not know what is supposed to be there in the first place, to say that reality is an illusion. We also don't know why it isn't supposed to be there. Part of recognizing an illusion is understanding the deception being portrayed.

      Reality isn't defined but experienced. If we're experiencing an illusion, how would we know that it's not a level of some undefined reality. I think it's just a bold assertion to subscribe to, in this case, when there are so many unknowns.

    5. #5
      Dream Explorer Venomized Victim's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by User View Post
      I don't believe in this because we don't know the true definition of reality. As far as I'm concern, we define reality by what we make of it and we can't give a definite meaning to something that is clearly subjective. There's no common ground here, since anything can be real to anybody. It makes me wonder if the concept of a "reality" even exist and not just totally made up.

      An illusion would be something that isn't there but appears to be. The problem is that we do not know what is supposed to be there in the first place, to say that reality is an illusion. We also don't know why it isn't supposed to be there. Part of recognizing an illusion is understanding the deception being portrayed.

      Reality isn't defined but experienced. If we're experiencing an illusion, how would we know that it's not a level of some undefined reality. I think it's just a bold assertion to subscribe to, in this case, when there are so many unknowns.
      Well stated, however I believe that reality is what your mind believes is real. What your mind focuses on, sustains itself on, keeps you running on, is real simply because it's what your mind perceives to be real. When you look at a schizophrenic, and you see him talking to people only he can see, to us he's talking to imaginary people, people who arn't real. But to him, they ARE real because his mind believes it.
      Dreams I've had since joining this forum.
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    6. #6
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Reality is not illusion, it's a dream. We just go along with it like a regular non lucid dream, believing it to be real. The best way to influence a dream is through focusing your awareness in a controlled manner. Any type of real world magic that could actually work would do so by taking advantage of the fact that reality is a dream by using methods that focus awareness in a certain way. This is evident in every school of magic from voodoo to dowsing for water with a stick, all of which make superb techniques to do things reliably in dreams.

      Even the magic wand, or today's pointer sticks and laser pointers, are meant to focus awareness, and people still do it to this day. That's why there are all those old pictures of Jesus holding a magic wand. Any of his miracles would be a piece of cake in a dream. Especially the multiplying of loaves and fishes. Things multiply like that in dreams naturally when you focus on them.

    7. #7
      Member ChaybaChayba's Avatar
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      I think reality is our imagination. And our imagination is what creates reality. I figured it out mathematically..

      e=mc˛ .. means energy is the mass times a constant, which directly implies everything made out of matter is made out of pure energy:
      energy == matter
      finest form of energy is light, because nothing goes faster than light, so all energy is made out of light
      energy == light
      thoughts go at the speed of light, so thoughts are made of light:
      thoughts == light

      If thoughts are made out of light and the finest form of energy is light, that means that the finest form of energy, what everything is made out of, is the same thing as thoughts.

      In other words, Einstein mathematically proved that reality is really made out of our thoughts. e=mc˛ or if we turn this around, mc˛=e. matter = energy = light = thoughts... tada.. the mystery of the universe is solved with the most simple equation.

      So what are your thougths on this?
      "Reject common sense to make the impossible possible." -Kamina

    8. #8
      Miyembro aioinae's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba View Post
      e=mc˛ .. means energy is the mass times a constant, which directly implies everything made out of matter is made out of pure energy:
      energy == matter
      finest form of energy is light, because nothing goes faster than light, so all energy is made out of light
      energy == light
      thoughts go at the speed of light, so thoughts are made of light:
      thoughts == light

      If thoughts are made out of light and the finest form of energy is light, that means that the finest form of energy, what everything is made out of, is the same thing as thoughts.
      Macaroni and cheese is made out of matter.
      macaroni and cheese = matter
      By e=mc˛, everything, including energy, can be converted into matter.
      energy = matter = everything
      Therefore,
      everything = macaroni and cheese

      Universe solved!
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    9. #9
      Member ChaybaChayba's Avatar
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      Lol, you made a logical error in your deduction, macaroni and cheese isn't the finest form of matter, light is! But hey would be cool if everything was made out of macaroni and cheese.. mmm
      "Reject common sense to make the impossible possible." -Kamina

    10. #10
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Life is a dream. The very first rule of dreaming is:

      Everything requires your attention to exist.

      Let's take pain as an example. s You only feel pain in dreams if you stop to pay attention to it. The same i true for real life.

      Listening to music while in surgery reduces the amount of pain and anesthesia required. Instead of focusing on the pain, your attention is also focused on the music, leaving less room for the pain.
      http://www.livescience.com/health/05...c_surgery.html

      Even looking at an injury through the wrong end of binoculars will lessen pain. (can't find the link to that one at the moment, but it's true!)

    11. #11
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Light Speed

      The speed of light isn't a physical limitation, it's a conceptual limitation.

      Once you reach the speed of light, you actually stop moving. This is because in order to have movement, you have to be moving relative to something else. Traveling at the speed of light means the light from everything around you won't reach you. Without that light reaching you, there can be nothing to gauge you sense of movement.

      Basically I flew at the speed of light in a dream, everything kind of blurred out of existence as I started going really fast. I went so fast, everything blurred together until there was nothing. Which left me nothing to move relative to, and I stopped moving, just floating in an empty void. WHich completely ruined my lucid, because with nothing to focus on, the dream fell apart and I woke up.

      The speed of light is a limitation both in the real world and in dreams. If you don't believe me, just try it.

    12. #12
      I love kebap Ilumirath's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba View Post
      hey would be cool if everything was made out of macaroni and cheese.. mmm
      Neen.
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    13. #13
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      My opinion is that I think that it is a fact that our life is reality. What would be if it wasn't real? Why would we all be here, interacting with eachother? I think we all live in the same world. If we don't see the same things, its 'cause we don't look at the same spot or that we are more or less attentive ot our surrundings. That's my opinion... and that this is my opinion is a fact. That doesn't proof anything though,...
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
      "He was unrespectful to the Dream Pirate"
      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

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    14. #14
      I love kebap Ilumirath's Avatar
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      Ask a schizophrenic
      <a href=http://img405.imageshack.us/i/142310leninpreach.jpg/ target=_blank rel=nofollow><img src=http://a.imageshack.us/img405/4567/142310leninpreach.jpg border=0 alt= /></a>

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    15. #15
      Dream Explorer Venomized Victim's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough View Post
      My opinion is that I think that it is a fact that our life is reality. What would be if it wasn't real? Why would we all be here, interacting with eachother? I think we all live in the same world. If we don't see the same things, its 'cause we don't look at the same spot or that we are more or less attentive ot our surrundings. That's my opinion... and that this is my opinion is a fact. That doesn't proof anything though,...
      Somewhat I believe. If you think about it, you experiance your own life, and as such behind your own eyes you'll always wake up, but the people around you won't always wake up. I believe this is because we live in different but overlapping worlds. each life creates his or her own world, but our worlds need to interact with other worlds, kind of like the economy needing international trade. we won't survive in solitude, we need outside contact.
      Dreams I've had since joining this forum.
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    16. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Venomized Victim View Post
      Somewhat I believe. If you think about it, you experiance your own life, and as such behind your own eyes you'll always wake up, but the people around you won't always wake up. I believe this is because we live in different but overlapping worlds. each life creates his or her own world, but our worlds need to interact with other worlds, kind of like the economy needing international trade. we won't survive in solitude, we need outside contact.
      But if you wake up but I don't. You still woke up in my world. I think we're all in the same big world but each of us has something worth enough to be its own world... If I open a door and leave and if you go to that door. It will be opened. And then if you close it and leave, when I will come it will be closed and this even if it was done to someone else's house... And even if we all have our own little world like you say, its still all real.
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
      "He was unrespectful to the Dream Pirate"
      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

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    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      Life is a dream. The very first rule of dreaming is:

      Everything requires your attention to exist.

      Let's take pain as an example. s You only feel pain in dreams if you stop to pay attention to it. The same i true for real life.

      Listening to music while in surgery reduces the amount of pain and anesthesia required. Instead of focusing on the pain, your attention is also focused on the music, leaving less room for the pain.
      http://www.livescience.com/health/05...c_surgery.html

      Even looking at an injury through the wrong end of binoculars will lessen pain. (can't find the link to that one at the moment, but it's true!)
      If someone is behind you and stabs you in your back with a knife. Why will you feel pain if it requiers your attention to exist?
      “To dream anything that you want to dream. That's the beauty of the human mind. To do anything that you want to do. That is the strength of the human will. To trust yourself to test your limits. That is the courage to succeed.” - Bernard Edmonds

    18. #18
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      solipsism!
      LD's: 18
      Listen to This Will Destroy You

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by JustSoSick View Post
      If someone is behind you and stabs you in your back with a knife. Why will you feel pain if it requiers your attention to exist?
      I think he meant that we can get our mind away from a certain pain by taking away the attention but I agree with you.

      I don't believe in solipsism
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
      "He was unrespectful to the Dream Pirate"
      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

      Goals [ ]Jump on a trempoline with an elephant [ ]Meet Dream Pirate and give him a gift
      [ ]Shapeshift [ ]Spy on a DC [x]Fly

    20. #20
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by JustSoSick View Post
      If someone is behind you and stabs you in your back with a knife. Why will you feel pain if it requiers your attention to exist?
      Because there are very few things that grab your attention like a knife in the back. If there is an ensuing struggle, you wouldn't feel much because your focus would be on staying alive. I've been banged up enough to know that it hurts more after you have time to ascertain the extent of your injuries, and I'm sure anyone who's been hurt would agree if they thought about it.

      Then shock sets in, which is basically a scattering of your awareness, and again you don't feel much for awhile.

      That's also why a dissociative pain killer like morphine works. Or stops working once they get used to it and it becomes less of a distraction.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 01-31-2009 at 01:00 AM.

    21. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      Because there are very few things that grab your attention like a knife in the back. If there is an ensuing struggle, you wouldn't feel a thing because your focus would be on staying alive. I've been banged up enough to know that it hurts more after you have time to ascertain the extent of your injuries.

      Then shock sets in, which is basically a scattering of your awareness, and again you don't feel much for awhile.
      Why does it grab your attention if it`s not real and you`re not paying attention to it?
      “To dream anything that you want to dream. That's the beauty of the human mind. To do anything that you want to do. That is the strength of the human will. To trust yourself to test your limits. That is the courage to succeed.” - Bernard Edmonds

    22. #22
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      Guys, why are we debating on our existance, I think its pretty dumb seriously... But if you seriously this is all an illusion and we don't actually exist than go ahead.... I won't judge you..
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
      "He was unrespectful to the Dream Pirate"
      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

      Goals [ ]Jump on a trempoline with an elephant [ ]Meet Dream Pirate and give him a gift
      [ ]Shapeshift [ ]Spy on a DC [x]Fly

    23. #23
      Miyembro aioinae's Avatar
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      Obviously everything is illusion... except the mac & cheese.

      I proved it right up there people.
      (。・∀・)φ)) aioinae's dream journal ((φ(・∀・。)
      。・゚・。・゚・ current goal: complete task of the month! ・゚・。・゚・。

      Adopted by Delphinus!

    24. #24
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      Macaroni and cheese is made out of matter.
      macaroni and cheese = matter
      By e=mc˛, everything, including energy, can be converted into matter.
      energy = matter = everything
      Therefore,
      everything = macaroni and cheese

      You are soooooooo right

      I never thought this could be possible. I do not exist! But the macaroni and cheese I ate yesterday were real since... i mean, it makes complete sense! Since we're not real what about we all stop this thread and stop existing for good. We are not worth macaroni and cheese
      OOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOO
      "He was unrespectful to the Dream Pirate"
      said the seal after beating up my brother

      RESPECT THE DREAM PIRATE or the sea animals will get you! ARG! ARG! ARG!

      Goals [ ]Jump on a trempoline with an elephant [ ]Meet Dream Pirate and give him a gift
      [ ]Shapeshift [ ]Spy on a DC [x]Fly

    25. #25
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by JustSoSick View Post
      Why does it grab your attention if it`s not real and you`re not paying attention to it?
      Your attention makes it real. Everything requires your attention to exist. In order for it not to exist, you'd have to be pretty good at controlling your attention, in which case you'd probably be aware enough that nobody could sneak up behind you with a knife. Which in effect makes the pain not exist at all.

      Sounds like a silly word game or logic problem, but that really is how reality works. It's also the only form of dream control you can hope to achieve.

      Quote Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough View Post
      Guys, why are we debating on our existance, I think its pretty dumb seriously... But if you seriously this is all an illusion and we don't actually exist than go ahead.... I won't judge you..
      because this is a site about dreaming, and all the topics around here are sucking lately. Gotta try to stir up some decent debate.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 01-31-2009 at 01:34 AM.

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