Is there any connection to, or relationship between Lucid Dreaming and Remote Viewing?
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Is there any connection to, or relationship between Lucid Dreaming and Remote Viewing?
No. What makes you think that anyway?
"No", doesn't do much to clarify anything. You seem absolutely certain that there are NO similarities between the two, so, why keep us in the dark? I think many people would like to know the answers to:Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpse
How are they different?
Have you experienced both?
Have your experiences covered all aspects of both, so that there's nothing they share in common?
Are there any research studies being done on LD, as there were with RV?
Is RV being discussed anywhere on this forum?
Nothing in this realm will ever be cut and dry, but the fact that so many people experience these things makes it worth knowing the similarites, advantages and dangers of them. Would really be nice to know the value and purpose they are meant to serve.
According to Robert Bruce a self-proclaimed expert on astral travelling, lucid dreaming is a form of astral projection, and astral projection is indeed the same as remote viewing. Basicaly, it's all a form of dreaming. If you want to know more about his theories, google :P
HA ... that's good, a self-proclaimed expert on astral traveling. What other kind of expert is there at this point? For the time being, this is all we have to rely on, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Thanks for the reference. I'll look him up. The two (LD and RV) sure seem to have similar descriptions, but since I haven't experienced either, this is strictly an academic question.
Appreciate it!
LDing and RV are usually very different. One is controlling a naturally-occurring phenomenon in which your brain generates scenarios while unconscious, the other is a method of gaining information on distant targets by ignoring impulses in a relaxed frame of mind. I doubt either of them can be truly dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
I have successfully managed to remote view on one occasion.
My experiences show that there is absolutely nothing in common.
Stephen LaBerge is a scientist that studies lucid dreaming. He has written several books on the subject, and is considered a pioneer in the field and is almost single-handedly responsible for making lucid dreaming known to the public.
RV is rarely discussed here, but there was a topic on it fairly recently.
Just to be clear, are we defining remote viewing in the same way? The way I have seen remote viewing used and referred to is where the viewer relaxes, chooses a target, then allows details to jump to mind. You could lean back in your chair, take a few deep breaths, and be ready to try some viewing.
Does not computeQuote:
Originally Posted by Micki
My knowledge of RV comes from Morehouse and Danes descriptions of their experiences in the Stargate Project. Their explanation of getting into the right state was a little more complex, but for someone who is accustomed to getting into a meditative state or hypnotic state quickly, your description of sitting back taking a deep breath focusing on a target might be that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
It still seems similar, as you are in a Lucid state, controlling what you see and do, and where you go. The only big difference is how you get there and the intent behind going there. With RV you go into the state knowing you can control these things, but still have to learn how to do all this. In LD (from what I've read about both) you naturally go into that state, and often haven't a clue what to do there, or what you're experiencing. Hence, this forum to help everyone figure it out.
RVing seems to be the conscious effort to get into that state, and does seem to be a term used to refer to seeking a specific target, but that refers to how the state is used, rather than what that state is. Am I making sense?
No. At least not to me. No matter what LDing and RVing are not the same, and not even close. I think the biggest difference is that LDing is proven, exist and many people do it(some without even knowing the term) RVing is something not proven, with no real proof of existence(I am not saying it doesn't) and is far more unpopular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
Well.. that's the theory.. which you must know is unproven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
Again, that's just a theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
Mostly by younger people, I must add. Many older LDers consider him a kind of Johnny-come-lately.. the true pioneers are surely long dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
This makes me smile. I would say that is completely wrong. Castaneda sold millions of books detailing LD techniques years before LaBerge came along. It is surely Castaneda (and you can't argue with his sales figures, which totally eclipse those of any LD peers) who, if anyone, might be said to be "singlehandedly responsible for making LDing known to the public". Where do you think LaBerge got it all from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
And he wasn't even the first "Scientist" to "prove" LDing under laboratory conditions. That was at the Department of Parapsychology at the UK University of Edinburgh.
As I understand it (and I may have the wrong impression, admittedly), RVers do not "fall asleep" when they do their thing, whilst LDers do. RVers aver that what they perceive is "real". Apart from that, I see no real difference.
RE: TempleGuard "I think the biggest difference is that LDing is proven, exist and many people do it(some without even knowing the term) RVing is something not proven,..."
From what I've read there has been proven a better than 'chance' score of success with RVing, but that's around 15%.
RE: Oneiro, "As I understand it (and I may have the wrong impression, admittedly), RVers do not "fall asleep" when they do their thing, whilst LDers do. RVers aver that what they perceive is "real". Apart from that, I see no real difference."
That's pretty much how I see it, with the big difference being the route to that state rather than the state. That may account for a low 15% of accuracy, and maybe people can't really let go and get into that state when they're RVing as they're guard is still up somewhat.
Where is this other topic (under what heading or title)? If you can remember, I'd like to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity
So, here's my take for what it's worth.
Lucid Dreaming CAN be like Remote Viewing if you choose to use it in that way.
I've done both, and to me, they are the same thing because I Dream with Intent. Remote Viewing, by its definition, is Intentful.
When I Journey, I have the ability to go wherever and whenever I need to to find the answers to my questions. I have the same freedom in Dreaming.
If, however, you do not Dream with Intent, then all you're doing is goofing off in the "playground of the mind". Nothing wrong with that, but it is not Dreaming - just dreaming.
When remote viewing, I use my knowledge of dreaming to know when I'm doing it wrong.
The one thing you're not supposed to do when RVing is guess what your target is outright. You only want to describe it. So if an image of something pops into your mind fully formed (like a dream), then you are guaranteed to be wrong. You just end up making up detail for that guess, and don't leave yourself open for the real target.
In dreams, if you focus on something, it creates detail. You want to avoid focusing on a real object, something you guessed or think it is. Basically when you delude yourself with something wrong, it builds like a dream. When you actually get something from RVing, it's completely different than that. The detail doesn't form, it just like, BOOM, there it is.
Your answers are all very interesting. Gives me plenty to look up. I'd love to be able to do this, but haven't succeeded, so far. Thanks for all the comments.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=69178Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
Well, that was interesting. I pictured an oriental carpet, red with black scrolling design on it. Maybe this isn't my thing. I'll stick with just understanding dream symbolism, more or less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Licity