If OBEs and WILDs are the same thing, why can one only be attained when you are due for REM sleep (WILDs), while the other can be attained at almost any time of day, regardless of how much sleep you've had (OBEs)?
Any thoughts?
If OBEs and WILDs are the same thing, why can one only be attained when you are due for REM sleep (WILDs), while the other can be attained at almost any time of day, regardless of how much sleep you've had (OBEs)?
Any thoughts?
For those who claim to be able to astrally project at any time of day within a manner of minutes, I'd like to hear your answers on this as well.
Because they aren't the same thing.
The method used to achieve them is similar, but diverges at a point.
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from what I have read "not personally experienced yet" this is true...the only similar part is the relaxation. when you are past the paralysis point WILDS involve waiting for HIs to form an image, or to form what you are willing and falling in to it. by the time this happens I suppose you are in REM sleep.
However, with AP it seems the paralysis is your "go" signal to begin pulling your spirit out. You willfully do it as oppose to the more passive style of a wild
it is different. In lucid dreaming you are thinking subconsciously. In astral projection you think consciously just like you do while awake.
what do you mean by "thinking subconsciously"? There are some specific things I can't think about for too long in a lucid dream or I'll wake up. but my thinking is pretty normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester
Whatever makes you believe in this? This is a wrong information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeyahoi
This post explains nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by WakataDreamer
This post was helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdyo
This post does not make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester
This post conflicts with tkdyo's and Wakata's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutad
Keep 'em coming guys. Looks like we're coming to an agreement here. :chuckle:
haha, Jeff only like my post~~~ :P
This post explains nothing. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tkdyo
oh but it does, it explains that my original post explained at least a little :D
Jeff made "valuable" comments so I'll make one too: this thread is fun :)
OBE's and WILD's are not the same thing. You do not need sleep to have an OBE. People have had them standing up, wide awake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeyahoi
Are you trying to say that astral projection is not the same as dreaming? If so, I agree with you.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WakingNomad
Didn't know that. I'll have to do some research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutad
I agree to a certain extent. Thing is, in a lucid dream you still don't have full on waking levels of mental presence and clarity. I think that's what he meant, could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by tvs_frank
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Arutad
I agree, helpful post.Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdyo
I have been able to WILD when I am not due for REM sleep. The fact that you go into SP whilst conscious the mind is forced into REM.
I have used the OBE technique and had "OBE's" or "AP's" as you would call them, but one thing I can't understand is why I am still blind in my left eye when I'm out of body. I've been blind in my left eye since age 4, and I have read NDE accounts where a blind person has been able to see for the first time during a proper OBE (when I say proper I mean one in which you are dead). Surely then if I really was having an OBE I would be able to see through both eyes?
Bingo! That's because you are not having "proper" OBE's, just ones that happen during sleep/trance. They are of a whole different category than the OBE's related to NDE (which I would call proper). The first happen in your mind (and maybe ESP may make it look like you are OBE), the second really happen out of body (as there is no functionning brain any longer).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonnn
Skeptic disclaimer: yes I know it is not scienfically proven (as yet :))
Interesting. Can you see out of your left eye while lucid dreaming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonnn
no I can't. I know I technically should be able to because your not really seeing through your eyes but through your mind but so far i have not been able to see again through it in LD's. Perhaps it's because I can't remember what its like to see through 2 eyes, my accident happened when I was 4 years old.
No, thats not true. Both eyes have their own equivalent optic data processing areas in the visual cortex. The area doing your left eye is kind of "dormant", not in use, because it gets no signals from the eye. This very same cortex is also the visual source of our dreams, hence you are also blind there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonnn
oh ok well thanks Xetrov I did not know that... least i know now its not possible
Hey, I am not sure if it is totally impossible though! I mean, you are correct in that the mind is the ultimate tool that "perceives" the visuals. Maybe there is another way to make the dormant visual cortex wake up (dunno if you ever tried any hallucinogens? *Mandatory Disclaimer: drugs could be bad*) :)
I don't think this is an adequate distinction, given that nearly every one of my WILDs happens in the way you say is characteristic of AP. I transition to a "dream body" while I'm still lying in my bed and then deliberately sit up (or roll or slide or levitate) and get out of bed. Then I'm in a dream version of my bedroom--assuming that's where I fell asleep. When I do it in a hotel room or while staying at someone else's house, I'll find myself in a dream version of that place. But for all the superficial resemblance, these are definitely dreamed spaces and not real ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdyo
If OBEs supposedly take place in the "real" world and not dreamspace, this should be easy to prove with clinical experiments: just have the subject supply accurate information about places/people/things that they don't have access to or prior awareness of. For instance, you could have a locked room that the subject is supposed to access during the OBE and subsequently provide specific details about what is inside. Have there been successful experiments along these lines?
Necrothread - OP hasn't been on in years. PM if you have questions. Make another thread if you wish to discuss this exact topic.
thread closed: Necro