Tips on Lucid Living: Increasing Awareness in Waking Life

These ideas are based on different beliefs systems integrate lucid dreaming into their religion, some Don Juan ideas, and on personal experience.

These are things to do in Waking Life.

1) Ponder the illusory nature of life.

2) Consider how dreams are like waking life, and waking life like dreams.

3) Ponder the possibility of the dream world being a real place.

5) Wonder if you could be seeing other real people in dreams.

6) Visualize what you would do if you could do anything.

7) Do nothing and everything.

8) Maintain awareness. Turn off the autopilot, and do everything deliberately. Breathe, walk, eat, sit, stand, drink in awareness.

9) Force yourself to always have good posture. This is actually a great feat. This will give you amazing awareness.

10) Ponder how which laws in dreaming apply to waking life.

11) Be in the moment. Whatever you do, do just that one thing, and nothing else. This will give you amazing awareness and focus.

12) Do not be amazed, said Jesus. Remain calm. If you become too amazed, adrenaline will course through your veins, and you will wake up.

13) When you are listening, only listen. Focus on your awareness going to the back of your head.

14) Teach others about lucid dreaming. Teachers always learn more than students. When teaching focus your awareness to the third eye.

15) When neither teaching or listening, bring your awareness to your crown.

16) Take a full deep exhale and inhale with every breath. This is a great feet, and will amazingly increase your awareness.

17) Look at everything. Look at everything you see, but don't focus on one thing too much. This is will transfer over to lucid dreaming. This will also increase your awareness. You will begin to notice things you have never seen.

18) Listen to everything. Listen to as many conversations as you can simultaneously in a crowded room. Focus on one. Next make it all background noise. Listen to sounds far. Become so quiet, you can hear your own heartbeat.

19) Touch everything. It's best to do this in the forest so people won't think you're a nutjob. Touch everything, and notice the temperature, and texture.

20) Walk around with your eyes closed. This will increase the awareness of the other senses.

21) Don't watch TV.

22) Think about where you would go, if you could go anywhere, even if the place was not real.

23) When someone begins to argue with you, listen to them so hard, they are forced to quit arguing. This goes against your nature, and will increase awareness.

24) Do the thing that you are afraid to do in waking life.

25) Keep life new. Do new things. Try new foods. Meet new people. Always say yes if you can if someone invites you to do something new.

26) Do the most fun things in life as much as you can.

27) Meditate.

28) Be aware of others' energy. Learn how to avoid negative energy. Gravitate toward positive energy. This I call the "energy sense." Learn to cultivate it. Someone that gives you the creeps is negative energy. People that make you feel good without saying or doing anything have positive energy.

29) Ponder the possibility of everything and nothing being true.

30) Do a reality check every time you wake up, and every time you walk through a door. Every time you do an RC, say, I am dreaming.

Couldn't resist a bit of sillyness...


1) Ponder the illusory nature of life.

Try and pretend the need to urinate is an illusion.
Or the next time you have the flu is an illusion.
You'll be amazed at how convincing the illusion of soggy trousers is!

2) Consider how dreams are like waking life, and waking life like dreams.

And consider why that would be, like say, maybe the brain is processing information from your daily experience.

3) Ponder the possibility of the dream world being a real place.

Then get cheesed off that that dream about winning the lottery happened.

5) Wonder if you could be seeing other real people in dreams.

Then worry about that dream where you got naked, covered yoruself in jelly and had sex with your neighbour.

6) Visualize what you would do if you could do anything.

Such as that mindless chocolate covered lesbian orgy you've always wanted.

7) Do nothing and everything.

Or in other words, be lazy but file it under "spiritual", that way you don't feel so bad :)

8) Maintain awareness. Turn off the autopilot, and do everything deliberately. Breathe, walk, eat, sit, stand, drink in awareness.

Wach in excrutiating boredom how seconds become hours, whilst you wait in line at the post office.

9) Force yourself to always have good posture. This is actually a great feat. This will give you amazing awareness.

Great awareness of all those muscles you never use straining under the new regime! :S

10) Ponder how which laws in dreaming apply to waking life.

Like the law of the ever expanding haddock, and the slow motion seagulls.

11) Be in the moment. Whatever you do, do just that one thing, and nothing else. This will give you amazing awareness and focus.

And if you were really being aware, you'll see this is exactly the same as number 8! :P

12) Do not be amazed, said Jesus. Remain calm. If you become too amazed, adrenaline will course through your veins, and you will wake up.

Jesus loved saying things like this, amazing he knew about adrenaline back then... he really should have wrote about that, would have been much more useful than all that wank in the bible.


13) When you are listening, only listen. Focus on your awareness going to the back of your head.

Don't do this in oncoming traffic... because, you may notice that your awareness in the back of your head, has become replaced by a gearstick or engine parts.


14) Teach others about lucid dreaming. Teachers always learn more than students. When teaching focus your awareness to the third eye.

Cross eyed teachers are best!


15) When neither teaching or listening, bring your awareness to your crown.

If you can't find your crown, it'll probably be in the drawer with all the little other bits and pieces from the christmas crackers.

16) Take a full deep exhale and inhale with every breath. This is a great feet, and will amazingly increase your awareness.

Don't do this whilst phoning female friends, as generally your number gets blocked, and you get a restraining order.

Also, for even greater feet, go for a manicure!

17) Look at everything. Look at everything you see, but don't focus on one thing too much. This is will transfer over to lucid dreaming. This will also increase your awareness. You will begin to notice things you have never seen.

Unless of course you are doing number 13, in which case you've really ballsed up. C'mon now, focus people!


18) Listen to everything. Listen to as many conversations as you can simultaneously in a crowded room. Focus on one. Next make it all background noise. Listen to sounds far. Become so quiet, you can hear your own heartbeat.

You'll notice just how much crap people really talk about... generally about shopping, people they fancy, and general comments about the weather. This will help increase your by now enflated ego, making you feel even more spiritual and "better" than everyone else.

19) Touch everything. It's best to do this in the forest so people won't think you're a nutjob. Touch everything, and notice the temperature, and texture.

If doing this in a swimming pool, be sure to be "aware" of exits, and security guards so after your quick grope, you can get out before the police arrive.

20) Walk around with your eyes closed. This will increase the awareness of the other senses.

This will also increase your chances of no longer having any senses when you walk in front of a bus.
This is best combined with number 19 at the swimming pool, if done in the changing rooms, you can actually "astrally transport yourself" to what feels exactly like a sausage factory.

21) Don't watch TV.

Because it's a really bad idea to stay up to date with current affairs, news and science documentarys if you're trying to enflate your spiritual ego. It has a horrible way of pulling you back to the reality of the world we live in.

22) Think about where you would go, if you could go anywhere, even if the place was not real.

Like, disneyland.
Wouldn't that be cool? you could teach donald duck about lucid dreaming whilst cross eyed!! woooo that'd be really wierd!

23) When someone begins to argue with you, listen to them so hard, they are forced to quit arguing. This goes against your nature, and will increase awareness.

People find it really hard to argue with people who look like they are constipated. Generally, they assume you are a bit "special" and walk away to talk to someone less worrying!

24) Do the thing that you are afraid to do in waking life.

You know, that thing with the gerbil and the lube.

25) Keep life new. Do new things. Try new foods. Meet new people. Always say yes if you can if someone invites you to do something new.

Drag queen base jumping is a growing sport and is always looking for new recruits!

26) Do the most fun things in life as much as you can.

Masturbation whilst eating ben and jerrys.

27) Meditate.

Another great way to do nothing whilst pretending to do something.

28) Be aware of others' energy. Learn how to avoid negative energy. Gravitate toward positive energy. This I call the "energy sense." Learn to cultivate it. Someone that gives you the creeps is negative energy. People that make you feel good without saying or doing anything have positive energy.

In other words, only hang out with people who agree with you. That way, you'll never have to evaluate your beliefs and always feel you are right.
Avoid conflict, because if people argue with you, you can just dismiss it as "negative energy"... that way you're never wrong... well at least you'll never know you are. And hey! ignorance is bliss!!

29) Ponder the possibility of everything and nothing being true.

This way, you can once again never be wrong... you'll always have a water tight argument for being right.

30) Do a reality check every time you wake up, and every time you walk through a door. Every time you do an RC, say, I am dreaming.[/QUOTE]

Or you could just do one, when dreamlike things happen, and you could just say "Am I dreaming?"... kind of a bit more sensible that way.

thank you, Waking Nomad.

Your DJ is incredible and i've wondered what you"do" -- or better said -- you you are, to create such amazing dreams.

and even why mine vary sometimes... and yet i can see that some days i live a far more aware life than others.

what you are saying, basically, is who you are in your waking life... is who you are in your dream life. aware in one, aware in the other.

i have been wondering, so much, how to bring more awareness to my dream life.
what you say is simple, yet all-encompassing of one's waking life.

warmly,
bg~~~

ps one question: no tv? at all? why is that? is it just that there are better things one can do with their time? etc. or do you feel tv is actually harmful, mind-numbing stuff?

sometimes i like to watch youtube, and living zen/yoga masters (etc) giving darshan, or chi gung, etc... is this in the same category as tv?

Wow really good ideas there WakingNomad, I'm sure going to apply those to my life.. thanks a lot for sharing. I've been trying to figure out how to turn real life into a meditation and this is helping me alot!

Nomad, you're the kind of person that keeps the world turning.

Also, I'd say I have one tip or another:

- Whatever may be your relationship with reality, keep in mind that every single unpleasant phenomenon is a potencial sign showing you where to go, if is it, that you want to make things better, for you and for others.

- Accept your horrendous dark side, let your shadow be true to you, once you are true with it.
This makes it absurdly easier for you to grow well, being one with yourself and all that.

- Humans need reasons as fuel for their existence, there is no will to keep burning without something that you need for starters. Whatever cruelty may one do, it has a meaning, a root. It's not called "evilness", it is called "misshaped will" and misshaped will can be properly shaped, once you get the hang of it.

- It doesn't really matter if anything at all is real or not, if it is real for you, it affects you. You just have to let it affect you the right way.

- If a fact shows to be fixed in reality, remember that it is an interpreted law, it needs a view point to be there, it means that through the glasses of whoever said that, it was true, it doesn't means "Absolute truth".

And I am now currently out of creativity. Thank you for your time, whoever read this.

Space Explorer, I am not going to quote all that, but thank you. That was hilarious. Now I have to go drag queen base jumping in a dream! Thanks for the inspiration.:D

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Originally Posted by beachgirl

thank you, Waking Nomad.

Your DJ is incredible and i've wondered what you"do" -- or better said -- you you are, to create such amazing dreams.

and even why mine vary sometimes... and yet i can see that some days i live a far more aware life than others.

what you are saying, basically, is who you are in your waking life... is who you are in your dream life. aware in one, aware in the other.

i have been wondering, so much, how to bring more awareness to my dream life.
what you say is simple, yet all-encompassing of one's waking life.

warmly,
bg~~~

ps one question: no tv? at all? why is that? is it just that there are better things one can do with their time? etc. or do you feel tv is actually harmful, mind-numbing stuff?

sometimes i like to watch youtube, and living zen/yoga masters (etc) giving darshan, or chi gung, etc... is this in the same category as tv?

---

Well, it's mostly the commercials that are bad for your mind. Commercials are designed to create anxiety, to make you feel like you need the thing they are advertising. It's also mentally jarring because they interrupt what your mind was focusing on. I think it's much better to watch shows on DVD or the internet if you can commercial free. Usually when I watch TV it's just movies on AMC with no commercials. If you want to watch a show with commercials, I recommend muting them, and reading a book, or doodling or doing housework while the commercials are on, something, anything. Don't just sit there and watch something you are not interested in. That's a waste of time, which is a limited resource!

Now I have to look up darshan!

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Wow really good ideas there WakingNomad, I'm sure going to apply those to my life.. thanks a lot for sharing. I've been trying to figure out how to turn real life into a meditation and this is helping me alot!

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In many Eastern philosophies, everything is meditation, even things as simple as doing the dishes. You are welcome, but this is just a hodgepodge mashed together from different belief systems. None of it is new.

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Originally Posted by Corello

Nomad, you're the kind of person that keeps the world turning.

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You are! Because it's love and joy, that keep the world turning. And, also the little green monkeys running on treadmills beneath the crust.

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Originally Posted by Corello

Nomad, you're the kind of person that keeps the world turning.

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He's also the kind of person who keeps deceased scientists turning in their graves.
Hmm, maybe that's a bit mean... but, to be the devils advocate here:


It's remarkable how people so easily buy into open ended "meaningful" sounding statements. Like "Do nothing and everything." which is essentially saying absolutely nothing.


Or "When you are listening, only listen. Focus on your awareness going to the back of your head."

Which is basically saying: try and pay attention to what you are doing.
Which is good advice, certainly, but it's also utterly common sense.
Any of us could come up with a list of common sense ideas, then dress them up as "deep and meaningful" sayings.
By putting "focus on your awareness going to the back of your head" at the end, again isn't really saying anything is it?

I'm all for living lightly and improving ones awareness, but that isn't a ticket to try and mystify what is really nothing other than common sense.


We can all play at being Zen masters, it's not hard...

"when sitting, just sit"

"When a thought comes to mind, consider the space in which it sits, then ask yourself... am i the space observing the thought, or the thought observing the space?..."

"A thought is like the moon reflected in a pond.. consider this, and observe how your attention is drawn to your third eye"


Personally, I find all this stuff when being stated like some kind of eternal truths, comes across with a kind of smug arrogance. Of course we all want to feel special and "spiritual", we want to feel we have meaning in this universe. But we should also be able to laugh at ourselves, and our smugness, not take ourselves too seriously. Because if we don't we are missing out on the awareness that we're just a few steps away from apes, grasping at a vast mysterious universe. It's far healthier to assume we know very little, and be humble in our approach, rather than put ourselves on a spiritual (and slightly selfserving) pedastal.

You can find a spiritual peace in accepting that the meaning of the universe is unfathomable to the human mind. That we are very small fish, in a very large ocean.
Playing at being buddhas or Jedi Masters, on an online forum (or in day to day life for that matter), by pumping out smart little bits of common sense in flowery language, achieves nothing other than giving our egos a pat on the back, and pretending we are more important than we are.

Embrace not knowing and strive to find answers the hard way... not through sitting around navel gazing, but getting out there observing reality, experimenting, discussing, exploring. Even if those answers make our human existence seem even more meaningless and futile. Throw your spiritual ego in the bin, accept that the human race is barely out of the cradle and may have no special place in the universe, and become a part of the rational, scientific, mature generation that is helping us leave the cradle and take our first few baby steps into the universe.

Yeah it'd be great to be a Jedi Master,
but in reality, its little more than a toddler putting on a superman costume and pretending he is something he is not. It's fun and reassuring, but it's not alligned with the reality we face.


It's late, and i'm rambling, and i mean no offence.
But I think there is a real danger of falling into an ego trap if we get too carried away with our own spiritual self importance.
I'd like to think Nomad would agree on this.

Wow that's some really great advice there WakingNomad.

He's also the kind of person who keeps deceased scientists turning in their graves.
Hmm, maybe that's a bit mean... but, to be the devils advocate here:

It's remarkable how people so easily buy into open ended "meaningful" sounding statements. Like "Do nothing and everything." which is essentially saying absolutely nothing.

True.


Or "When you are listening, only listen. Focus on your awareness going to the back of your head."

Which is basically saying: try and pay attention to what you are doing.
Which is good advice, certainly, but it's also utterly common sense.
Any of us could come up with a list of common sense ideas, then dress them up as "deep and meaningful" sayings.

Yes!

By putting "focus on your awareness going to the back of your head" at the end, again isn't really saying anything is it?

You can move your awareness around in your body. Focusing on it going to to the back of your head is a way to draw in what the other person is saying.

I'm all for living lightly and improving ones awareness, but that isn't a ticket to try and mystify what is really nothing other than common sense.

We can all play at being Zen masters, it's not hard...

"when sitting, just sit"

That's actually really hard to with good posture at all times. There would be so many less back problems and carpal tunnel syndrome if people were more physically aware when they were sitting.

"When a thought comes to mind, consider the space in which it sits, then ask yourself... am i the space observing the thought, or the thought observing the space?..."

That's a great question. That's really funny that you said that, because I am reading a very interesting book right now, Entangled Minds by Dean Radin, and he asks that question.

"A thought is like the moon reflected in a pond.. consider this, and observe how your attention is drawn to your third eye"

Personally, I find all this stuff when being stated like some kind of eternal truths, comes across with a kind of smug arrogance.

That is a problem I have sometimes. Thanks for pointing that out. My best friend always used to tell me that I'm a smug bastard.

Of course we all want to feel special and "spiritual", we want to feel we have meaning in this universe. But we should also be able to laugh at ourselves, and our smugness, not take ourselves too seriously.

I think you and I should have a "smug battle." How about we try and dream about each other being smug, and see who can get an award I dub "The Smuggalicious Smuggetty Smugnugness Medal?

Because if we don't we are missing out on the awareness that we're just a few steps away from apes, grasping at a vast mysterious universe. It's far healthier to assume we know very little, and be humble in our approach, rather than put ourselves on a spiritual (and slightly selfserving) pedastal.

Hmm. Did my first post sound spiritual? I meant it to be about increasing physical awareness in waking life, so lucidity and awareness in dreams will increase. Maybe I need to rephrase some things.

I am self serving, true. My goal is to help as many people become advanced lucid dreamers so we can share dreams.

You can find a spiritual peace in accepting that the meaning of the universe is unfathomable to the human mind. That we are very small fish, in a very large ocean.

Is there a meaning to the universe? I always wonder about that.

Playing at being buddhas or Jedi Masters, on an online forum (or in day to day life for that matter), by pumping out smart little bits of common sense in flowery language, achieves nothing other than giving our egos a pat on the back, and pretending we are more important than we are.

I'm mostly just repeating things that other people said. As said the Zen Master we are all Buddha. As far as playing Jedi Masters, I only do that in dreams. Well, I am a Jedi Knight actually. I love those dreams!

Embrace not knowing and strive to find answers the hard way... not through sitting around navel gazing, but getting out there observing reality, experimenting, discussing, exploring.
I agree. Every time I stare at my navel my back starts to hurt. I don't think I'll ever be able to achieve autofellatio. :? We should all experiment as much as possible.
Even if those answers make our human existence seem even more meaningless and futile.
You feel human existence is meaningless and futile?
Throw your spiritual ego in the bin, accept that the human race is barely out of the cradle and may have no special place in the universe, and become a part of the rational, scientific, mature generation that is helping us leave the cradle and take our first few baby steps into the universe.
I do think we are special, but not any more special than other sentient beings.
Yeah it'd be great to be a Jedi Master,
Dude, you should become a Jedi Master in dreams!
but in reality, its little more than a toddler putting on a superman costume and pretending he is something he is not. It's fun and reassuring, but it's not alligned with the reality we face.

It's late, and i'm rambling, and i mean no offence.
But I think there is a real danger of falling into an ego trap if we get too carried away with our own spiritual self importance.
I'd like to think Nomad would agree on this.

Yeah.

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

Wow that's some really great advice there WakingNomad.

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Thanks for the nice compliments guys, but the last thing I need is my ego stroked. Like I said before, this is mostly stuff from Daoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other Eastern religions, and also some stuff from Don Juan. I don't remember where I got each idea from, so I wasn't able to write a bibliography.

I knew that space explorer would get on my case about this if I didn't write a bibliography, but I didn't want to spend hours researching where I got everything from. Anyone can find these ideas by researching these belief systems.

Basically, what it comes down to is that everything in life can be a meditation. From pooping, to conversation, to hiking, to housework to sex.

Awareness is simply being aware of yourself, physically, emotionally, and mentally, and being aware of your surroundings.

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Originally Posted by Corello

Nomad, you're the kind of person that keeps the world turning.

Also, I'd say I have one tip or another:

- Whatever may be your relationship with reality, keep in mind that every single unpleasant phenomenon is a potencial sign showing you where to go, if is it, that you want to make things better, for you and for others.

- Accept your horrendous dark side, let your shadow be true to you, once you are true with it.
This makes it absurdly easier for you to grow well, being one with yourself and all that.

- Humans need reasons as fuel for their existence, there is no will to keep burning without something that you need for starters. Whatever cruelty may one do, it has a meaning, a root. It's not called "evilness", it is called "misshaped will" and misshaped will can be properly shaped, once you get the hang of it.

- It doesn't really matter if anything at all is real or not, if it is real for you, it affects you. You just have to let it affect you the right way.

- If a fact shows to be fixed in reality, remember that it is an interpreted law, it needs a view point to be there, it means that through the glasses of whoever said that, it was true, it doesn't means "Absolute truth".

And I am now currently out of creativity. Thank you for your time, whoever read this.

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Thanks for sharing. You gave me a lot to think about!

Lucid living here is a synonym for imagination, or so it seems. ;) Pretend that you're lucid living, and there you are!

How about wearing only red socks? It's a new rule, guys, you must wear only red socks. And don't forget that you must open doors with the left hand from now on. Forgetting and opening with the right hand is equal to loss of lucidity, so watch that one closely. Easy to miss.

..

And remember, the most important thing is to keep believing. We aren't talking about being lucid here (whisper)... we're talking about planting a belief of being lucid deep inside of your fragile psyche! Don't worry it can take anything. Just do inanities and believe that you're cool. The feeling of coolness will carry you through, boosting your believing capabilities!

Spaceexplorer,

Paying attention to what you're doing is an example of common sense knowledge, it doesn't means it belongs to common sense, it means common sense has it in it's series of knowledges.

If you solely focus on an action, or a specific sense, you get a pretty much more detailed version of the situation, that improves your LD realistic graphics for example.

Another example is that it is an practice of focusing your attention, with it you obviously can build-up an improvement on your focusing. Which is very useful in my opinion to the everyday life.

(I know that's not what WakingNomad said, or meant, but) I'd give another meaning to "back of your head", as an expression, it can be one of those situations where you have "something going on on the back of your head", you know it's there, you may even know what's about, but you can't put it in words. In other words, you're thinking with the right side of your brain, your emotional/subconscious mind. Exercising non-linear way of thought is a good thing to do, it makes you get used to it (obviously). That being the way your unconscious mind talks to you in your dreams about your inner wills, which are very important for your grouth as a human being, I'd say it's useful to, for example, "Do Everything and Nothing." as a metaphor for the collective unconscious, by doing nothing consciously, relaxing your rational mind, your consciousness is directed to the other side, in which, deep down, there is the Collective Unconscious.

Lunch time here, I'm out.

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Originally Posted by Corello

for example, "Do Everything and Nothing." as a metaphor for the collective unconscious, by doing nothing consciously, relaxing your rational mind, your consciousness is directed to the other side, in which, deep down, there is the Collective Unconscious.

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So what you mean by "lucidity" is loss of consciousness! The very opposite of it.

Tell me if I forget how to use the fork, am I more lucid and aware? If I forget how to read letters, am I? Guys, I don't know where you get such wild notions.

According to this philosophy, the most lucid state ever is normal sleep. No rational mind there.

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Originally Posted by Arutad

So what you mean by "lucidity" is loss of consciousness! The very opposite of it.

Tell me if I forget how to use the fork, am I more lucid and aware? If I forget how to read letters, am I? Guys, I don't know where you get such wild notions.

According to this philosophy, the most lucid state ever is normal sleep. No rational mind there.

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Marry me :P

Lol yeah you two would make a great couple ^^

It doesn't mean you don't get it that it doesn't make sense lol. It makes a lot of sense to me, everything you do is actually subconscious. Do you really think you know how to transform letters into words into sounds into meaning into pictures? Do you really honestly believe this is a rational process?

The conscious is the tip of the iceberg, the subconscious does all the work, the conscious is merely the guiding focal point. It does nothing at all. Please tell me what your conscious can do without the subconscious and how it does it, I'm all ears..

Arutad, you know, I get distracted a lot in my writings, sometimes they get confusing for someone other than me. Still, don't put words in my mouth, what you just said is an interpretation of my earlier post, pretty much far away from what I meant.

What I meant to say is that if you're used to imagery and simbolism-like communication, you can more easily decipher what your non-lucid dreams mean as messages form your subconscious, also, your subtile emotional responses in your waking life get less confusing once you get used to the language used in subject.

When I mentioned relaxing your rational mind, I didn't mean shutting it down, much less giving it up for working your daily life with only your emotional mind, that would be a disaster, if is it that such thing would be possible.

In deep medidation, or Gnosis for example, you are consciously experiencing it, but you're not making judgement of reality with your rational mind as you usually do, you're experiencing it with the other side of your mind.

Also, things you do in your daily life end up sinking down into your unconscious. If you cool down all your five senses in real life, laid on your bed, really deep, and then exercise your imaginary senses, as if you were somewhere doing something you didn't get the hang of in your LDs, like flying very high and fast for example. If you get to make it intense and vivid, that set of abilities may be passed down to your LDs. I know this because I do it. (Doing this in the alpha or Theta, if you can make it, state of consciousness is highly recommended.)

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

It makes a lot of sense to me, everything you do is actually subconscious. Do you really think you know how to transform letters into words into sounds into meaning into pictures? Do you really honestly believe this is a rational process?

The conscious is the tip of the iceberg, the subconscious does all the work, the conscious is merely the guiding focal point. It does nothing at all. Please tell me what your conscious can do without the subconscious and how it does it, I'm all ears..

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I never said anything about total refusal from the subconscious, or that it's possible to function without it. Only that functioning without the conscious is a silly idea, it's called deep sleep. When people associate lucidity or awareness with deep sleep, that's a wow. They basically want to fall asleep forever, without this "guiding focal point", totally unconscious, as if it puts them in touch with reality. It puts them in touch with their subjective feelings and sensations, not reality, but that's a matter of what you're focused on more (feelings and sensations), not the matter of trashing the conscious or anything else.

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Originally Posted by Corello

When I mentioned relaxing your rational mind, I didn't mean shutting it down, much less giving it up for working your daily life with only your emotional mind, that would be a disaster, if is it that such thing would be possible.

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Ok thanx for correcting me. That's great. ;)

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In deep medidation, or Gnosis for example, you are consciously experiencing it, but you're not making judgement of reality with your rational mind as you usually do, you're experiencing it with the other side of your mind.

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And this is something I can't agree with. Conscious mind is not what makes judgements, it merely frames them. But they reside somewhere else. Let's say that they're neither in the conscious or the subconscious fully. It's easy to prove on a dream forum: you make judgements in your dreams with ease, all the time. Moral judgements, predicting behavior, etc. Consciousness is not involved. And in awaken state it's a kind of interaction of the two parts of yourself, sometimes at war with each other.

So in my opinion if you want to purify your mind, for whatever reason, you should purify the subconscious, and the conscious will follow its wake. There's nothing to purify in the conscious, it's a tool that follows strict rules. It's a machine, and its functioning is the way of analyzing, making comparisons, evaluating, etc. Anything else is not coming from it.

But the poor rational mind always gets the blame. A traditional scapegoat. ;)

Quote:

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Also, things you do in your daily life end up sinking down into your unconscious. If you cool down all your five senses in real life, laid on your bed, really deep, and then exercise your imaginary senses, as if you were somewhere doing something you didn't get the hang of in your LDs, like flying very high and fast for example. If you get to make it intense and vivid, that set of abilities may be passed down to your LDs. I know this because I do it. (Doing this in the alpha or Theta, if you can make it, state of consciousness is highly recommended.)

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I agree, but what did you want to prove with it?

Arutad, see "troll"....

If you really believe that we're talking about a bunch of bullshit, then why not just let us be happy and talk about our bullshit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

Arutad, see "troll"....

If you really believe that we're talking about a bunch of bullshit, then why not just let us be happy and talk about our bullshit?

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Auruad is not a Troll, she's a valuable member of the forum.
Arguing against stupidity is not trolling.

As for why people feel the need to step in when people talk bullshit... it's because we are sick of bullshit taking over the world.
It is bullshit, that when taken to the extreme, justifys things like people flying planes into buildings.
Sure, thats an extreme, but it was fuelled by the same acceptance of bullshit at its very roots.

Maybe you're the one talking bullshit... ever considered that? I'm just saying what if you were the one talking bullshit, then you would be the one taking over the world with your bullshit.. lol. I guess you didn't think that one out did you... I mean, you come in here ranting against spirituaity all the time, lol are you trying to save the world from people who believe in spirituality and are actively trying to change themself for the greater good? Wow how nice of you!

Even if spirituality is bullshit, the intent behind it is nothing but positive. How can you be against this positivity is beyond me... Actually, I think you are attracted to spirituality in the first place, or you wouldn't bother posting here. It's not the need to defend the world against bullshit, you can't erase all spirituality from the panet and you very much realize this. The true reason you come here is because feel major attraction...

spaceexplorer, "Tips on Lucid Living" is the kind of bullshit that might cause people to crash planes into buildings?? Take the stick out of your butt, man.

You people need to grow up, the DreamViews forums are supposed to be about maturely discussing topics and promoting the art of lucid dreaming. Not that there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, but I get the feeling a lot of people on here just want someone to argue with. If that's the case, fine, but please go do it somewhere else and stop being such dicks to people who are honestly trying to have a good discussion. Besides, it's not like you're winning anyone over....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Maybe you're the one talking bullshit... ever considered that? I'm just saying what if you were the one talking bullshit, then you would be the one taking over the world with your bullshit.. lol. I guess you didn't think that one out did you... I mean, you come in here ranting against spirituaity all the time, lol are you trying to save the world from people who believe in spirituality and are actively trying to change themself for the greater good? Wow how nice of you!

Even if spirituality is bullshit, the intent behind it is nothing but positive. How can you be against this positivity is beyond me... Actually, I think you are attracted to spirituality in the first place, or you wouldn't bother posting here. It's not the need to defend the world against bullshit, you can't erase all spirituality from the panet and you very much realize this. The true reason you come here is because feel major attraction...

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Yes I always consider if the things im studying are bullshit or not, I think that is a healthy way to be, question things, keep questioning, don't jump to easy conclusions. That is the foundation of critical thinking. So, whilst you may think you're making a clever insult, i don't take it as insulting, because it's a healthy way to be... Otherwise you end up believing in things like Auras, and not knowing what galvanic skin response but quoting it as if it backs up your argument.

I disagree, I dont think the intent behind spirituality is positive.
I think it is self serving, a comfort blanket, a way to cocoon yourself away from reality to feel safe and secure.
Being willfully ignorant, is not a positive force in the universe. Whilst it may solve some immediate fears and worries, it will in the long run line people up for being taken advantage of, both financially and mentally, and will also create a culture of ignorance.

Do we want a world full of people who shun facts in favour of unsubstantiated "happy feeling" beliefs?
Where will that lead?

I am not attracted to spirituality, I've already wasted too much of my life chasing that rainbow, when i could have spent the time learning about the real world. I actually feel conned and ripped off, by people i trusted to share truths with me... only to discover they were simply passing on their own delusions (at best) or (at worst) knowingly misleading people for their own fame and financial gain.

That's why I stand up to it, because too few people do. They make weak arguments like your own that its foundations are "positive", when in reality its foundations are akin to "white lies" or "self delusion".

As Freud himself said: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion. "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

spaceexplorer, "Tips on Lucid Living" is the kind of bullshit that might cause people to crash planes into buildings?? Take the stick out of your butt, man.

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If you can't understand the point I was making, then that in itself is worrying.
The point is simple: if you have a world of people accepting lies because they make people happy, eventually someone will take advantage of that self imposed ignorance and make good people do bad things.
9/11 would not have happened if people were more critical thinking, and didn't accept stupid religous ideas in the first place.
And as will all religious thinking... it starts with simple ideas, simple lies, then grows.
If you plant a seed of stupidy, eventually don't be suprised when you find yourself in a forest of bullshit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

spaceexplorer, "Tips on Lucid Living" is the kind of bullshit that might cause people to crash planes into buildings?? Take the stick out of your butt, man.

You people need to grow up, the DreamViews forums are supposed to be about maturely discussing topics and promoting the art of lucid dreaming. Not that there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, but I get the feeling a lot of people on here just want someone to argue with. If that's the case, fine, but please go do it somewhere else and stop being such dicks to people who are honestly trying to have a good discussion. Besides, it's not like you're winning anyone over....

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Lol wow I think you nailed it down. Thanks for enlightening me...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Lol wow I think you nailed it down. Thanks for enlightening me...

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He nailed nothing, he completely sidestepped the point.

Yes he did!

No he didn't!

Yes he did!

Lol what an intelligent discussion we have going on here.

Shall we just post up pictures of hot girls and be done with it?
That's what the internet is really for right?

At least then we can all agree on something...

When all else fails, Johansson makes it all good again...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblog...ohansson-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

spaceexplorer, "Tips on Lucid Living" is the kind of bullshit that might cause people to crash planes into buildings?? Take the stick out of your butt, man.

You people need to grow up, the DreamViews forums are supposed to be about maturely discussing topics and promoting the art of lucid dreaming. Not that there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, but I get the feeling a lot of people on here just want someone to argue with. If that's the case, fine, but please go do it somewhere else and stop being such dicks to people who are honestly trying to have a good discussion. Besides, it's not like you're winning anyone over....

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Let us review the description of the Beyond dreaming forum:
Here OBEs, dream precognition, sharing dreams, and other freaky paranormal things can be discussed.

No matter the intention of creating this forum, this is a more accurate description:

This forum is for people who like to argue about these topics:OBEs, dream precognition, sharing dreams, and other freaky paranormal things. If you bring up any of these topics: OBEs, dream precognition, sharing dreams, and other freaky paranormal things, others will argue with you incessantly until they kill your thread.

The main reason I posted this thread in the Beyond Dreaming forum is so more people would get exposed to it, even though I knew that The Rationalist Crusader Gang would kill it. I don't really understand why some people feel it is their mission to argue to death a topic on an internet forum, but c'est la vie.

The Deep Dreaming forum is not on the main page, but I kind of like it that way because I don't want a bunch of random people joining willy-nilly, and it becoming like this thread-killing forum.

Let us review the guidelines:
* Religious topics only belong in the Religion/Spirituality forum; any threads belonging there will be moved there.
* Try not to make claims without substantiating them with facts or evidence.
* No preaching. Keep in mind this is a discussion forum, so topics should be discussed on their merits and not crammed down people's throats.
* Play fair--avoid insults and personal attacks.



Reviewing this, I realize how the guideline practically contradict the forum description.

1) Many of these topics have something to do with religion and spirituality.

2) Just for someone to post, "I had an OBE!" is violating the guidelines, because how the fuck are you supposed to back that up with evidence. I blame this on Dreamviews. Maybe they are too concerned with looking silly to the public or something? I don't really know.

3) Most of the people arguing on here are "cramming down people's throats" but that is so subjective.

4) Every thread becomes rife with personal attacks after about the fifth post. Maybe we should report more to moderators? I don't know I don't want any of us to be heavily moderated. I don't like to be insulted. No one does. But, I allow it because I must then ask myself, "If I am insulted, I must care about what that person thinks about me." If I care about what someone thinks about me, that means I have an ego problem, so it's just another lesson. Anyway, I am going to stop posting in this forum as much because I realize it's creation is a contradiction in terms. I am talking about the guidelines contradicting the description, specifically.

Join the quiet rebels in the Deep Dreaming forum. Admin approval is required because it's for those of us who do not want to waste time arguing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I don't like to be insulted. No one does. But, I allow it because I must then ask myself, "If I am insulted, I must care about what that person thinks about me." If I care about what someone thinks about me, that means I have an ego problem, so it's just another lesson.

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Wise words WakingNomad.

How about smell everything.

I've always done that even as a kid.

:embarrassed:

I like number 18 as well.

I do this in crowded areas, its like the opposite of meditation; rather than looking inwards, you sense outwards. its quite an experience and beats reading the dirty magazines in the doctors office.:oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

The conscious is the tip of the iceberg, the subconscious does all the work, the conscious is merely the guiding focal point. It does nothing at all. Please tell me what your conscious can do without the subconscious and how it does it, I'm all ears..

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the brain prioritizes what we consciously retain.
The brain is capable of amazing things, but in order to function properly in modern society, it has to prioritize.

What happens if we don't prioritize info?
Your brain takes in EVERYTHING and you cant function. (autism)

this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqRT_kCOLI

is what im talking about. (what i think im talking about.)

CHAYBA, I did not answer your question.

sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I think you and I should have a "smug battle." How about we try and dream about each other being smug, and see who can get an award I dub "The Smuggalicious Smuggetty Smugnugness Medal?

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Ha Ha Ha! That would be a fun game to play. Let's add it to this list!!!:

1. Form Change games: green slime, snake games, worm games, becoming waves, growing fur, form melting, becoming planets, blobs, stretching arms, becoming puddles.

2. Adding and Subtracting Heads, Arms, Legs, Fingers game.

3. Cheshire Cat games: dropping off form until only the smile remains.

4. Slinky game: boing-boing spring

5. Becoming Star Bodies game: star-filled bodies

6. Becoming Very Old game: wrinkles, brown, gray, crumbling to dust.

7. Becoming Very Ugly game: see who can be the ugliest.

8. Snap game: snapping people into different spaces.

9. Upscaling/Downscaling games: follow the leader.

10. Gross-out games: room gets filled with rising shit, cannibalism, disease games, diseases are transmitted, body rot game.

11. Stubborness games: last one to stop being a rock.

12. Sliding Down Razor Blade game.

13. Revenge games: throw someone into dream world making them work thousands of lifetimes to climb back up, then throw them down again just as they upscale.

14. Disappearing games: hide and seek.

15. Seance games: bringing famous people forms into the room.

16. T.V. games: put the group entertainer "in the screen" and make them perform.

17. Weather games: temperature changes, rain from ceiling, coldness.

18. Balling games: everyone becomes a crystal ball filled with stars.

19. Tilting Room game: also, shrinking room, up-side-down room, no air in room, disappearing into walls.

20,Muffing games: walls are encrusted with crud.

21. Reminiscence game: everyone takes on different masks.

22. Holocaust games: roomspace blows up in everyone's face.

23. Everybody Becomes the Same game: everyone becomes the same form or personality, then try to form relationships.

24.Great Drama games: re-enacting great dramas.

25. Pain and Torture games.

26. Violence games.

27. Embarrassing Moments games: re-enacting most embarrassing moments in various dream lives.

28. I Don't Know game: everyone forgets truth, then seeks one who knows.

29. All Alone games: continual dwelling on being All-one, alone.

30. I Know Something You Don't Know game.

31. Jealousy games: musical chairs relationships.

32. Games of Scale: from atom to universe and back again.

33. Bouncing Around Walls game.

34. Making One Wall of Room into a Window, Scary Forms Appear at Window game.

35. Deformities game: lumpy funny bodies.

36. Harmony games: being chords, pure notes.

37. Beautiful Light Pattern games: being most beautiful, powerful, etc., light pattern.

38. Aesthetic games: making most beautiful things.

39. Perfection games: being most perfect for longest time.

40. Being Food games: last to get eaten wins; who is being the Thanksgivng turkey?

41. Explanation games.

42. Finding New Unexplored Space game.

43. Psychology games: complex, simple, etc.

44. Being Afraid games.

45. Discovering New Life Forms games.

46. Being Tired Of Games game.

47. Crack In The Cosmic Egg game: room begins to split apart.

48. Machine games: becoming parts of machines, computers, computers in chest.

49.Shatter games: explosion games.

50. Speeding up/Slowing down games.

51. Entrapment games: spider web spaces.

52. Perpetual Entertainment Machine game: TV screen on one wall and you snap someone into it, forcing them to tap-dance forever.

53. Let's get One Thing From Out There Into Here game.

54. Tweak the Room Slightly Out of Alignment game.

55. Beauty and the Beast games: the most beautiful colors, sounds, creations,textures, etc. and then the most ugly, disgusting, horrid colors, sounds, creations, etc.

56. Mischief games: froggy, hit someone as though the one next to them did it, etc.

57. Strip Poker game: dismantling limbs instead of clothes, and then pretending you forgot how to do it.

58. Dread games: any moment now the worst possible thing is about to happen- many variations on this theme.

59. Alien Planet/Galaxy Contact games: pretending you don't know anything about TX-17; making incredible efforts to contact them. And when you do have the tremendous task of deciphering their language, understanding their history, etc.

There's lots of pretend games where you agree to blot out your knowledge/ experience about a certain period in Earth history or pretend not to remember anything about being exiled to Selusa Secundus, etc. and it becomes very important/urgent to explore that. But there's always some asshole in the room who, right when the game is culminating and all the eons of exploration and work are about to pay off, rolls all over the floor yuk-yukking, slapping his thigh and blowing the whole number.

That is also another version of the No Satisfaction, No Rewards game, which usually leads to the Crucifixion games, which usually leads to the Great Religions of the World games which lead into the Great Saints, Martyrs, etc. games, which lead into the Sodom and Gomorrah games which lead into the Puritan-Persecution games which lead into the Barf games (just to break the pattern) which lead into the Science and Scientists games, which lead into the Great Political and Historical Figures (and their defamation) games, at which point, the same asshole who won't let anyone else play their games wants to play WAR.

At this point, he gets sent plummeting back, screaming and cursing, to the accompanying jeers and cheers of his fellow roommates, to the trilobite stage. All the rest rock-out and wait for his return. Just as he sets his fingers on the edge of the floor and is about to haul himself back into his home-room after eons of agonizing evolution, they freak him out so badly that he plummets back to the algae stage. And so on, ad infinitum.

60. Kings and Queens at Court games: ritualistic games with strange twists and innovative patterns and customs.

61. Medieval Torture games: guillotine, rack, cat o' nine tails.

62. Tag games and variations upon.

63. Competitions: the most ugly, beautiful, fastest, slowest, strangest, grotesque, ethereal (most anything--or nothing).

64. Skull-out, Puddle-out, Slime-out games.

65. Enchantment games: a version of Snap where you use music, images, etc. to try to mesmerize the others.

66. Power games: you're in my power/I'm in your power,

67. Home Movies game: what I did during my summer vacation.

68. Nostalgia games: those were the good ol' days---remember when....

69. God and Goddesses games: Zap! I'm Zeus! Poof! I'm Apollo!

70. Artisans game: look what I just made!

71. Evolve/Devolve games: tail-brain duty in a brontosaurus.

72. Sports games: people become a ball, hoop, puck, etc.

73. Take-it Way-out games: essentially how close to the "edge" can you go? See how long you can hang out with "uh-oh sensations."

74. High-sensation games.

I agree with most of your advice, nomad. They are all good tips for keeping yourself aware during the hubub of daily life. I sspecially like the part about seeing everything at once. I do that whenever I am trying to increase my awareness. I also move my consciousness/ point of view to the lower back of my head or the center of my forehead. I find both spots seem to do well for increased awareness and stability.

WAKING NOMAD: I won't stroke your Ego, I'll just say that I understand exactly what you are saying. And it is good for me to know that there is someone out there who also is trying to spread the word that lucidity is not just for dreaming, but for life in general, and ultimately, death.


It is funny. Can't even have a discussion about awareness without it becoming an atheist/religious debate. As members of a lucid dream forum it seems like we could all agree on awareness, whether or not we are atheist or religious or spiritual or material, gnostic or agnostic, mystical or rational.
Just as the so-called religious people cling to blind faith the so-called materialists cling to their 'rationality'. As if rationality is more valuable or more "TRUE" than intuition. Not to say that intuition is "More True" either. Just both have their place. In the past when many of the mystical teachings were discovered and created it was based on experimentation and validation, just the human body-mind was the laboratory, and nothing could be verified objectively and proved. The only way to prove it was to do it for yourself and prove it for yourself. organized religion ruined everything by separating the truth and experiences from the experiments and keeping the dead husk and declaring it as dogma.
Just because one can see an aura and science says it is electro-resistance in the skin or whatever, doesn't mean one is wrong. The eyes are a different tool than the polygraph. A scientist and a meditator can arrive at the same truth from different angles. Just the meditator starts with himself and then becomes aware of the whole Universe, the scientist will become aware of the whole universe before becoming aware of himself. Each gains "powers" in their own domain. All of our technology are "powers" that we have science to thank for.

Being aware might be common sense, but we all could definately work on it. Just gaze into the mirror at the space behind your pupils and see how long you can focus before a thought clouds your vision and you lose a bit of lucidity. If you can do it for a whole minute straight (honestly!) you win a medal! Yes it may be common sense, yes it seems simple if you talk about it, but try it and then tell me it is simple. Everyone sleepwalks through life. It is very funny for me that people who cling to the materialist philosophy and declare it "TRUE" dogmatically, the ones who demand PROOF for anything slightly resembling mysticism, have never tried sincerely meditating regularly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I also move my consciousness/ point of view to the lower back of my head or the center of my forehead. I find both spots seem to do well for increased awareness and stability.

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This is an old Indian tantric practice of visualizing an infinity loop where the one end loops reaches the forehead between the eyebrows and the other end loops to the base of the skull and top of the neck and the intersection of the infinity sign figure eight crosses the pineal gland in the center of the head between the ears. The base of the skull in the back of the head is the yin or feminine opening to the chakra and the third eye between the eyebrows is the masculine or yang opening to the chakra or pineal gland.

One thing I like to do is cycle my awareness along the infinity sign synchronized with my breath so that when I cross the juncture of the two loops I am also swithcing between inhaling and exhaling. This works very well for WILDs or as a meditation in bed. I get a very magnetic and electrical feeling along with a hollow body. Many times I have just stepped into a dream from doing this meditation.

Dannon Oneironaut, your list of dream games is beautifully ridiculous! I love it. I was tearing up reading it. I think dream games is a badass idea. I didn't even think of it like that when I posted it. (Durh.. Awareness?) Raven Knight and I have played some dream games that was kind of like video games, and also fought each other, but dream games.

I think what would be really cool would be a cookoff to start off with!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Dannon Oneironaut, your list of dream games is beautifully ridiculous! I love it. I was tearing up reading it. I think dream games is a badass idea..

I think what would be really cool would be a cookoff to start off with!

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Who is going to be the hamburger? Who is going to be the beer? BYOB! :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Who is going to be the hamburger? Who is going to be the beer? BYOB! :banana:

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Actually becoming food that others eat. Holy shit! That an insane idea. Thank you! Let's see who can be the most delicious food. hahhahaha

With my luck and my skills I would probably end up being something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjaNYbPEydw

I had a food contest dream! I lost.

Ok, here's the situation. A few people come together to discuss something, they happen to have different views on the topic. The bigger group thinks: wait, if they're arguing, then they're trolls, after all, we CAN'T be wrong! It's a blasphemy to think differently.

Btw I wasn't even saying anything here about spirituality being bad or whatever, on another hand I think that people here have come to a dead-end about it. All they do is in their imagination, judging from such descriptions and ideas, which of course is ok if you think that spirituality is imagining things. But I don't think so, and this is my opinion. I'm for the real things and real spirituality, not for imagining things and pretending that they work.

However it makes people angry, pretense is so good.

Call lucidity a state of sleep, and who cares what it really is, what matters is that you IMAGINE that you're reaching for true lucidity. And what you imagine is true. Who cares that maybe true lucidity exists? This one is ok, and everybody who says otherwise is a troll.

What a sad state of affairs. ;)

You people are so sure that your opinion is the only correct one that blaming others for the same looks ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

Not that there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, but I get the feeling a lot of people on here just want someone to argue with.

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You're an escaper from debates, what can you possibly know about them or motivations of people who participate in them? Not even saying that such motivations are plenty and not uniform...

And what I think about YOU is that you hate when somebody has a different opinion, and comfortably and righteously make them look bad in your mind. Just because you're unable to argue. This way you're not a loser but a winner, and whoever dares to disagree with your majesty is a fool.

;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

This is an old Indian tantric practice of visualizing an infinity loop where the one end loops reaches the forehead between the eyebrows and the other end loops to the base of the skull and top of the neck and the intersection of the infinity sign figure eight crosses the pineal gland in the center of the head between the ears.

---

That is why I move my awareness between those two points. I don't do the loop thing unless I am actually meditating or WILDing. I do like to hold my attention there during the day, just to mix it up. Have you ever caught yourself holding your attention somewhere really weird? Sometimes, when I am doing a detailed drawing, I feel like I am just my hands. It is weird to catch yourself in a strange state, like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Actually becoming food that others eat. Holy shit! That an insane idea. Thank you! Let's see who can be the most delicious food. hahhahaha

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That is a great idea. Lets try to make it the next task of the month.

my goodness, this thread is amazing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Have you ever caught yourself holding your attention somewhere really weird? Sometimes, when I am doing a detailed drawing, I feel like I am just my hands. It is weird to catch yourself in a strange state, like that.

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HaHa sometimes I feel like that. Often if I'm eating something delicious and I focus on the sensations of my taste buds and my tactile sensations of my inner mouth I feel like my consciousness is located in my tongue or somewhere around there....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFantasy

HaHa sometimes I feel like that. Often if I'm eating something delicious and I focus on the sensations of my taste buds and my tactile sensations of my inner mouth I feel like my consciousness is located in my tongue or somewhere around there....

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In yoga class, they say, "Move your awareness to such and such part of your body."

I only recently learned how to do that. I have gone through most of my life living in my head, where my eyes, tongue, nose, ears, and brain are. I have always felt like my mind was right behind my forehead.

One night when I was meditating, I was focusing on my root chakra, engaging the root lock. Tingling sensations moved out from my perineum, and I felt like my mind was in my root chakra. I slowly moved my mind up my spine.

I have been experimenting with this since. I move my mind all the way down to my left foot, and I feel like I am a foot with a leg and everything else attached, instead of a head with a body on it. I move my mind all around my whole body until my whole body feels like it's vibrating.

I didn't know you could actually move your mind/awareness around inside your body like this, until I did it. It's an amazing experience once you can learn to do it deliberately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Have you ever caught yourself holding your attention somewhere really weird? Sometimes, when I am doing a detailed drawing, I feel like I am just my hands. It is weird to catch yourself in a strange state, like that.
.

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Sometimes I find that I am holding my attention on my penis or on a piece of anatomy on an attractive female.:P

Very cool and interesting posts. Can anyone of you maybe shed any light on this problem? The relation between meditation, energy in the body and sacred geometry? Dannon you talk about the infinite loop, how does that work? WakingNoma how do you move your awareness around in your body, what does it feel like?

Robot Buttler that's pretty cool what you are doing. in taekwondo we need to move the energy to the hara, the gravity point of the body, the lower abdomen; and I do this exact same thing to move the energy to my third eye, can you tell me more about how you do this because I'm not good at it at all...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Very cool and interesting posts. Can anyone of you maybe shed any light on this problem? The relation between meditation, energy in the body and sacred geometry? Dannon you talk about the infinite loop, how does that work? WakingNoma how do you move your awareness around in your body, what does it feel like?

Robot Buttler that's pretty cool what you are doing. in taekwondo we need to move the energy to the hara, the gravity point of the body, the lower abdomen; and I do this exact same thing to move the energy to my third eye, can you tell me more about how you do this because I'm not good at it at all...

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I don't know how it works, it just does! It must circulate the energy through the third eye chakra which is the chakra of dreaming. The first five chakras each being ruled by an element (earth, water, fire, air, space) but the third eye (sixth chakra, pineal gland) is the only chakra above the elements of the universe. It is literally mind over matter. It is also where duality unites because above the material universe there is no duality and the sixth chakra is where the two main energy channels on the left and right unite. Think of the cadeucus where the two snakes are coming together at the sixth rung and then when they do, the wings open up on the crown.

Sacred geometry and the body has to do with the number seven, seven main chakras, seven notes in the musical scale, seven colors of the rainbow. In fact, in nature the number seven only manifests with frequencies of energy. There are no seven sided crystals, no seven petaled flowers, no atoms that bond to other atoms with seven electrons in their outer shell.

With seven chakras, you have three below, one in the middle, and three above. The heart chakra in the middle regulates the energy between the animal chakras below and the divine chakras above. The symbol of the heart chakra is a six-sided star. One triangle pointing up, one pointing down. The union of heaven and earth, male and female, it is love between the opposites, where opposites are also complementary.

An energy visualization you can do is to:

1. stretch and breathe getting all loose and energy channels opened
2. First open up your heart chakras and your lungs by sitting crosslegged, stick your elbows out to the side with your left hand holding your left shoulder and your right hand holding your right shoulder.
3. Inhale deeply and fast as you swing your upper body to the left, exhale swinging to the right
4 Do this rhythmically, it is called "the Washing Machine"

OK, now your lungs are opened and your heart chakra is open. Now for the real sacred geometry meditation:

1. Sitting, inhale slowly and deeply and visualize (and feel) energy coming up from the Earth, through your tailbone, up your spine (actually in front of your spine in the center of your body) to where your heart is right in front of it.
2. Exhale as you pack the energy into a tight ball there.
3. Inhale again slowly and deeply and visualize (and feel) energy coming from above into your crown and down the back of your head, into the channel in front of your spine, to the heart.
4. Exhale and pack the energy into the ball
5. Repeat over and over.
6. Each time the ball gets bigger
7. Once the ball is the size of a beach ball and pretty dense with energy visualize it turning into a star tetrahedron that expands to encompass your whole body with the center at your heart:

http://www.crystalinks.com/startetraspinwb.gifhttp://www.cosmiclight.com/oflightan...es/startet.gifhttp://www.eaglespiritministry.com/p...ages/mt_01.gifhttp://www.eaglespiritministry.com/p...ages/mt_07.gif

The star tetrahedron is made of two terahedron like a 3D six pointed star. The top triangular pyramid spins clockwise and the bottom one spins counter-clockwise. Get it spinning faster and faster until it is going almost as fast as the speed of light. Be with this for the rest of your meditation. Before you end, ask your subconscious to keep it going throughout the day and night.

At first this will seem imaginary, but that is how we build energy structures, the same way as we do in dreams. But eventually you will feel yourself being at a higher frequency. It will create a multidimensional vortex forcefield around your body and when sone in a dream, it will be your spaceship.

Hey, I can give another tip for greatly increasing awareness in your everyday life. By very simply becoming more honest, with ourselves and with others, we can free up so much attention and energy that we normally spend trying to protect all of our little insignificant dishonesties from being discovered. In trying to conceal our innermost thoughts from others, we shut off the natural connection that we have with other beings, and we lose the joy of honest, true, communication.

In the words of Harry Palmer, "Honesty is the measure of our willingness for others to know our actions, our thoughts, our feelings, and our intentions." Sooooo much energy is wasted on projecting an image of "respectability" to the world because deep down we are afraid of coming out as who we really are.

Just by paying attention to your behavior throughout the day you may notice many instances in which you habitually and unconsciously deceive yourself or someone else because you are afraid of what might happen if you are truly honest. Summon the courage to begin breaking the habit, and by gradually breaking these unconscious agreements to be dishonest, you may notice a profound influx of awareness and energy into your life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I don't know how it works, it just does! It must circulate the energy through the third eye chakra which is the chakra of dreaming. The first five chakras each being ruled by an element (earth, water, fire, air, space) but the third eye (sixth chakra, pineal gland) is the only chakra above the elements of the universe. It is literally mind over matter. It is also where duality unites because above the material universe there is no duality and the sixth chakra is where the two main energy channels on the left and right unite. Think of the cadeucus where the two snakes are coming together at the sixth rung and then when they do, the wings open up on the crown.

Sacred geometry and the body has to do with the number seven, seven main chakras, seven notes in the musical scale, seven colors of the rainbow. In fact, in nature the number seven only manifests with frequencies of energy. There are no seven sided crystals, no seven petaled flowers, no atoms that bond to other atoms with seven electrons in their outer shell.

With seven chakras, you have three below, one in the middle, and three above. The heart chakra in the middle regulates the energy between the animal chakras below and the divine chakras above. The symbol of the heart chakra is a six-sided star. One triangle pointing up, one pointing down. The union of heaven and earth, male and female, it is love between the opposites, where opposites are also complementary.

An energy visualization you can do is to:

1. stretch and breathe getting all loose and energy channels opened
2. First open up your heart chakras and your lungs by sitting crosslegged, stick your elbows out to the side with your left hand holding your left shoulder and your right hand holding your right shoulder.
3. Inhale deeply and fast as you swing your upper body to the left, exhale swinging to the right
4 Do this rhythmically, it is called "the Washing Machine"

OK, now your lungs are opened and your heart chakra is open. Now for the real sacred geometry meditation:

1. Sitting, inhale slowly and deeply and visualize (and feel) energy coming up from the Earth, through your tailbone, up your spine (actually in front of your spine in the center of your body) to where your heart is right in front of it.
2. Exhale as you pack the energy into a tight ball there.
3. Inhale again slowly and deeply and visualize (and feel) energy coming from above into your crown and down the back of your head, into the channel in front of your spine, to the heart.
4. Exhale and pack the energy into the ball
5. Repeat over and over.
6. Each time the ball gets bigger
7. Once the ball is the size of a beach ball and pretty dense with energy visualize it turning into a star tetrahedron that expands to encompass your whole body with the center at your heart:

http://www.crystalinks.com/startetraspinwb.gifhttp://www.cosmiclight.com/oflightan...es/startet.gifhttp://www.eaglespiritministry.com/p...ages/mt_01.gifhttp://www.eaglespiritministry.com/p...ages/mt_07.gif

The star tetrahedron is made of two terahedron like a 3D six pointed star. The top triangular pyramid spins clockwise and the bottom one spins counter-clockwise. Get it spinning faster and faster until it is going almost as fast as the speed of light. Be with this for the rest of your meditation. Before you end, ask your subconscious to keep it going throughout the day and night.

At first this will seem imaginary, but that is how we build energy structures, the same way as we do in dreams. But eventually you will feel yourself being at a higher frequency. It will create a multidimensional vortex forcefield around your body and when sone in a dream, it will be your spaceship.

---

Wow nice very nice, that's just what I was looking for on sacred geometry, you're an angel ^^.. very cool meditation i did it and it works great, you can feel the energy flowing, I've done similar meditations even to the point its like I'm in the center of a storm has this ever happened to you?

Also do you know more about how 7 or maths have to do anything with sacred geometry?

Well, after every seven notes is a scale or every seven colors in a rainbow there is the eight which is the one again but a higher octave. It has twice the frequency.
So geometrically speaking, if you take the frets on a guitar they get smaller and smaller as they go up the neck, right? These points where the frets are are actually on the circumferences of smaller circles built off of the original circle using, I believe, the golden mean or the fibonacci sequence. I may be wrong, I lent my book to a friend.

So, with the sacred geometists tools; the compass and the straight edge, one can make all the -agons except the septagon. One can only make an approximate septagon. It actually doesn't exist perfectly in geometry. That is why it is symbolized by the Virgin. In ancient cultures they would make the best they could a seven sided foundation for the Virgin goddess's temple.

2/7=0.285714285714285714285714.....
3/7=0.428571428571428571428571....
4/7=0.571428571428571428571428....
5/7=0.714285714285714285714285...
6/7=0.857142857142857142857142....

Divide any number by seven. Do you see the pattern?
Sacred geometry is just geometry but meditating on it.

See how a septagon appears kind of 'off' or 'wierd'?:
http://www.free-maths-dictionary.com...s/septagon.gif

How about a seven pointed star? It is kind of wierd also:

http://www.septagon.org/img/septagon.png
http://rlv.zcache.com/septagram_scul...113r0w_400.jpg

I believe there is a forum already devoted to sacred geometry so maybe from now on I'll post about it there. See you there?http://="http://dreamviews.com/commu...d.php?t=77300"

I don't see the pattern except the distance of the repeating sequence 285714 is each time 3, or 6, what does it mean? also the link is broken :p

that 7 cornered star looks really weird like an optical illusion... howcome?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Very cool and interesting posts. Can anyone of you maybe shed any light on this problem? The relation between meditation, energy in the body and sacred geometry? Dannon you talk about the infinite loop, how does that work? WakingNoma how do you move your awareness around in your body, what does it feel like?

Robot Buttler that's pretty cool what you are doing. in taekwondo we need to move the energy to the hara, the gravity point of the body, the lower abdomen; and I do this exact same thing to move the energy to my third eye, can you tell me more about how you do this because I'm not good at it at all...

---

It feel like I am mostly my foot, or whatever, as if my mind is now in my foot. Normally we feel like we are living in our heads with the body attached. The best way to do this from my experience is to focus on opening the chakras, from the root to the crown. When you do this, you are already moving your awareness up your spine. Then, I move it around in my body. I focus on my left foot, and I just allow all the sensations in my foot to increase, and I pay less attention to sensations in other parts of my body.

When I feel like I am experiencing life through my foot instead of my head, then I move it up my leg, to my knee, hip, down to my right foot, then up again, and I go to my extremities.

At this point, I experience what is called the "bliss body." My whole body tingles and I feel like I am almost weightless. I have actually experienced this eating good raw food after being a vegetarian for a few months. Natural highs are real.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrFantasy

Hey, I can give another tip for greatly increasing awareness in your everyday life. By very simply becoming more honest, with ourselves and with others, we can free up so much attention and energy that we normally spend trying to protect all of our little insignificant dishonesties from being discovered. In trying to conceal our innermost thoughts from others, we shut off the natural connection that we have with other beings, and we lose the joy of honest, true, communication.

In the words of Harry Palmer, "Honesty is the measure of our willingness for others to know our actions, our thoughts, our feelings, and our intentions." Sooooo much energy is wasted on projecting an image of "respectability" to the world because deep down we are afraid of coming out as who we really are.

Just by paying attention to your behavior throughout the day you may notice many instances in which you habitually and unconsciously deceive yourself or someone else because you are afraid of what might happen if you are truly honest. Summon the courage to begin breaking the habit, and by gradually breaking these unconscious agreements to be dishonest, you may notice a profound influx of awareness and energy into your life.

---

That is awesome. About a year ago, I did an experiment with being as honest as I could at all times. I learned to leave something to be revealed, but maintain my sincerity. This takes practice. The other day, I was smiling at a male friend of mine who had been gone for three of four months. He said, "What are you grinning at me about."
I told him, "I just love you." We are both straight, but others may have thought I was gay (there were other people in the room) but I don't really care. Life is so short. Taking emotional risks take as much courage as physical risks. If I die tomorrow, I want him to know that I sincerely, unabashedly love him. If I die tomorrow, he will know that I truly did love him, because I told him. It's a tragedy that our society sexualizes everything, yet so contradictorally, is so restrained from physical affection.

Honesty is a beautiful thing. Everything does not need to be revealed, but lies are usually unnecessary. Lying to yourself weakens your soul. Learning to be honest with myself is a journey in and of itself, and has definitely increased my awareness in waking life.

On another note, I love everything Dannon Oneironaut posts!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HonerableMoUsE

How about smell everything.

I've always done that even as a kid.

:embarrassed:

---

That is awesome! I love the sense of smell. We so often forget about it. I work on an exotic plant farm, and I am constantly smelling flowers, and breaking off leaves and smelling everything.

D.O., a friend of mine told me about the sacred geometry spaceship deal a few months ago, but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me! I am going to try this tonight, but in shavassana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I don't see the pattern except the distance of the repeating sequence 285714 is each time 3, or 6, what does it mean? also the link is broken :p

that 7 cornered star looks really weird like an optical illusion... howcome?

---

The repeating pattern doesn't mean anything, unless you think it does. It is just the nature of seven that if you divide it into any number you get the same repeating pattern infinitely. ANY NUMBER!

Try the link again here:http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=77300

The seven cornered star looks wierd because it IS weird. And it is not perfect, it can't be.

this is a really fun thread! love the contributions! Dannon Oneironaut, great posts! Waking Nomad... continuing a stream of contribution...

here's another response for ChaybaChayba,
something tells me you'd really enjoy "esoteric anatomy" if you haven't already checked it out... sacred geometry as mapped onto nature and the human body and the spirit and all that is...

a few links
- these are just sample chapters in google reader - but you can get an idea!

http://tinyurl.com/ykf87yk

http://tinyurl.com/yfjloxo

bg~~~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Couldn't resist a bit of sillyness...

12) Do not be amazed, said Jesus. Remain calm. If you become too amazed, adrenaline will course through your veins, and you will wake up.

Jesus loved saying things like this, amazing he knew about adrenaline back then... he really should have wrote about that, would have been much more useful than all that wank in the bible.

16) Take a full deep exhale and inhale with every breath. This is a great feet, and will amazingly increase your awareness.

Don't do this whilst phoning female friends, as generally your number gets blocked, and you get a restraining order.

Also, for even greater feet, go for a manicure!


24) Do the thing that you are afraid to do in waking life.

You know, that thing with the gerbil and the lube.

---

lol funny, those were the best.

I love this post. Print it out and post it on your fridge and on your bathroom mirror. Read it everytime you brush your teeth. and brush your teeth with your left hand instead of your right. this increases awareness.

Yes. Sometimes the simplest things are the most profound.

It speaks to me of why i love lucid dreaming. It's so much more than LD. It's about life... and awareness... and existence.

Helen Keller said, “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.” Here she was deaf, dumb, and blind, and there she was, eventually shaking hands with presidents, great leaders, and inspiring millions of everyday people.

So i wonder, what is the box I live in and how can i keep enlarging it?

how can i use the senses I do have to feelingly/seeingly/hearingly/knowingly (etc) expand my awareness in ways i can only imagine?

this is a great guide. i printed out a copy.

A few more quotes by Helen Keller:
“The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision.”
“Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much.”
“Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence.”
“Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.”

I say this woman was a lucid dreamer from way back!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

That is awesome! I love the sense of smell. We so often forget about it. I work on an exotic plant farm, and I am constantly smelling flowers, and breaking off leaves and smelling everything.

D.O., a friend of mine told me about the sacred geometry spaceship deal a few months ago, but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me! I am going to try this tonight, but in shavassana.

---

ah wow a fruit farm on hawaii. got any jobs going? ;)

this is a great thread im loving this forum. the honesty thing is so important i think. im almost tempted to go around with a t shirt with all my deepst fear written on it to try and blow them out into the open. i one had a WILD/astral trip, and when it felt like i was about to enter the unknown i felt like i would be telepathically linked to everything and they would know all my deepest secrets.
this terrified my as i had not come to peace with myself at all at that point, but in trying to live a more honest life since then, i have made great progress and now there is little about me that i keep guarded. the more shut off we are from the truth about ourselves, i believe the more shut off we will be from any new pleasurable experiences and new insights.

cheers all good night

Heh, this is an old thread isn't it? But it's timely for me... I'm trying to work on awareness more lately, since I know lucidity in waking life helps translate to lucidity in the dream world. I tend to go through life in a bit of a fog, so it's no surprise my dreams are the same. I need to work on all-around awareness. I've had a couple lucid dreams recently, so I'm back in that groove, but they need to be more vivid and memorable. I had one moment of clarity in my last LD, which I'm now actively trying to cultivate. Anyways, you make some great points in this thread, even if they're old ideas. Sometimes the old ideas need to fall on fresh ears to be appreciated. :)

Thank you Nomad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

That is awesome! I love the sense of smell. We so often forget about it. I work on an exotic plant farm, and I am constantly smelling flowers, and breaking off leaves and smelling everything.

D.O., a friend of mine told me about the sacred geometry spaceship deal a few months ago, but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me! I am going to try this tonight, but in shavassana.

---

reminds me of my first dream in which i remember vivid smells. i was walking along this hedge which had loads of different coloured wallflowers growing out of it. each one had a different but amazing scent

call me stupid but how do you meditate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CallmeSkarr

call me stupid but how do you meditate?

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yeah, but i forget sometiesm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beachgirl

“The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision.”
“Walking with a friend in the dark is better than walking alone in the light.”

I say this woman was a lucid dreamer from way back!

---

I've got Daredevil in FB superhero text and said that 'well, who needs eyes anyway, they are only good for limiting what i can believe in'
Illumination is sometimes hard sphere to have a faith in. Damn those venezianas on windows. Darkness and shadows are easier to see in.

BTW who played a prank on me here. I really want to thank him. I was reading and feeling this thread, decided to go down for cig, took wrong keys and no phone with me.. so there I was left in a snowy night. Some people at the store kindly loaned me a phone, but my hosts phone wasn't on. Then in comes this crazy old lady that was there for purpose. I decided to follow her blindly. She introduced herself first as a guide, second as angel and third as lion. She was crazy and marvolaent swearer. Like combination of Delirium of the endless, (only in her grandma form) and Black Madonna Erzulie. She got me into this Arabic night store (held by atheist, for islamic reasons) where I bought myself a cup of black coffee, filters, Kismet-choclade and packet of papel de liars and some long drinks for her. (luckily i had my wallet with me) Place wasn't really in finland but nearer to Interzone, if you catch my draft. Music channel talked dreams to me, she danced and pissed of the owner but owner had high respect for me so she was allowed to hang around. I had lovely and very informing conversation about current state of islamic law in sexual, alcoholical and fasting matter in Iran. Good information for iدm still working for leaving the Finland behind. And my info on Arabia is from like 14th century. In one video there was new dreamwalk style story of myth of the twins.. she was the one who brought astrolochy up all the time. It was about Warring twins who turned into Crow and Raven, Crow went under sea and world got divided.

Mostly when I think about myth of twins, I get into my mind dual snake of dna (ayida-weddo and damballah), caduceus, lovers, devil (one of the roles my guide introduced her), tower (falling lovers), medically two hands (sincere and dexter), hitlers experiments, two horses/sphinxes of chariot, pharao-like couples (osiris and isis).. but rarely that animalistic dreamforms,, those were deepdreamed.. I had married a sea as any decent modern pirate/trader/sailor would do, so i see myself as crow diving in the embrace of sea. Raven is spiritform i'm curious about. I've tended it's dream egg for one very beloved girl who I've dreamed with. So when the Ravenspirit posessed animated old fisherman I see her as fishing for me. In the fisherman, though he was old and somewhat pop'aye like, i saw both jeesus and and my imprisoned brother who is babtised not only in the name of jeesus buit also with Finnish version of Jeesus name. He is fond of fishing and is allowed to do it in the proper of institution he is held. He's also strologicallý both ox and twin. Girl appeared in the screen as golden girl, who sent three of her own lures to help fishermans work. Fisherman and girl/raven were in the space of air while Crow lived under the surface. For my tornapartness I'm a deep diver of forbiddenlove / seperated love mythologies around the world. So I see everywhere marks of my other / shadow. Some people have dreamed with me long enough so they everyone at their own level are familiar of the part of them that is my other. When I meet someone and do time together those dreamforms tend to manifest in them. With some we even hold hard to catch but notgiving up connection with our veryown language of memories and experinces. To them I'm as present reflection as they or singular other is to me. Not always seen and reachable but always there.

We left this shop when it got closed. and traveled to Diakonia held home she was living in. It was full of references and memories that tolked to me and she was as crazy as in the first place. I remembered some memories and roadsigns from the past day that hinted me about entity who is her daughter in some way.. who wants freedom of the hard memories of this mothers crazyness and addictive criminal life. So when christianity where ever present (she showed me the church of sacred heart which calls her), as well as lion, her old crazy and delirious black madonna like form and her drudge bearing and change dreaming daughter that wanted to help me to help her to free her (younger).. so i had to play it with all participants. She gaved me Mooseleather jacket and couple of other things that were on their way to me. We parted while ago in mutually gratefull morning, for her quest for beer was her way and I realized and recalled a lot during this night.

Now I'm at the computer checking how voodou forms have changed / updated themselfs to networld. I'm having to mysteries to dig. Another is vampiric symbolism of addictions, dominations, sexuality, deep blue feelings, unlife beyond death, mysteries of blood and hearth and longing. Another is that of the Woman (or entity named the Woman) for when the Woman first arrived my life she did in a form of women or maybe first girls. This Woman is big mystery for i find my dreamhome whereever i go. But the Woman first arrived in things the girls brought with them, make up, manners, cloths, decorations, weather and genetic patterns. Now she governs this house of mine and i'm her everguest,, for now atleast. She has characteristics to be jeolous towards women and some times bodily vessels also. Girls she treats less jealously but annoingly all the same. It's crazy to see standards of home and cleaness laws as well as other womanly crazy stuff that everyone unknowly obeys. Maybe the girls and women wh0o have begom aware of the Women are best allies for my secret war against this queen. Guys he bends to easily under her spell. Luckyly her powers somehow are dependent on me, but she surely has given me hard time when I've ignored her (like two years in mental hospital where she held most of the strings). So to live with her I'm more setting my mind into dreamforms that are beyond genderlines and humanforms. As well as working with every Jack and Girl and independent woman who wants their freedom and sovereignity back [/rant]

Off course I also love her

EDIT: also there were goldfishes:banana::banana:
and this I found that helped a lot (even the names and sylables talked into my dreamtongj): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orunmila