When first encountering a fellow Dreamer...

I was going to experiment with this further before talking about it, but a post by the user Atlantic seems to confirm my initial observations.

Namely that when you encounter a real dreamer rather than a regular DC, that dreamer's attention exerts an influence over your own attention. Imagine two lines representing two different forces going in different direction, so when you combine both those forces it moves in a new direction determined by the combined influences of both forces.

http://session.masteringphysics.com/...4/YF-10-40.jpg

What it feels like is a vinyl record that suddenly skips, or like you're trying to click on something on your computer screen with the mouse and you cursor suddenly jumps half way across the screen. You're focused on one thing and then all of a sudden *Skrrrrrrttttch* you're suddenlt "off".

Keep in mind this is just a theory as of yet. It usually takes me a long time to figure this stuff out, but since it seems like everyone and their dog is these days, maybe you guys can help.

So here is Atlantic's post:

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Originally Posted by atlantic

When I am with other people, I feel them deforming my personal world view and perception - they really tug it out of shape. This is very clear when I take a walk with one other person. Their effect on the conversation is most noticeable, but in fact the exact same effect takes place at the level of perception, even if no words are spoken.

But I think exactly the same thing takes place in dreams. You can have totally subjective dreams, but most dreams are shared, not only with other human beings but with a host of other creatures.

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Ok, upon initially reading that, I thought he said he noticed that happening in shared dreams too. I kind of feel dumb now, but I've already written this much, so I might as well finish it.

My dreams, just fragment, can't say for sure is it was a shared dream because I didn't know the people, or even if I was lucid (Not sleeping well lately):

Fragment: Disturbance in the Force
I encounter a DC and my attention suddenly jumps, like trying to click on something with a mouse and having your cursor jump across the screen before you can. I find that odd, so I turn my attention away from this guy then turn it back only to have the same thing happen.

I suspect that's the result of encountering another dreamer instead of just a regular DC. His attention influences mine, like two forces moving in different directions that take a new combined course when put together.

Fragment: Plot People
I keep encountering what I think are fellow dreamer, and again notice that Jumping effect they seem to have on my attention. Like a record skipping.

But this time, I notice two distinct types of influence. The dreamers who seem to be deeply involved in the plot have a more drastic influence over the dream when we first meet than those who detach themselves from the plot. Encountering those relatively free of the plot had a barely noticeable change, while the plot people would incite major change over the dream just from encountering them. I found the plot people slightly annoying.

One final thing I noticed was the difference language made. There was an asian man speaking what I assumed to be Chinese. He voiced the same intent as the other dreamers, only in his language, and it took a different form in the dream that I could actually see and compare to the others. I assume the differences result from the differences in language structure.


Might be nothing, just random dreams on my part, but it might turn out to be a good way to identify a fellow dreamer.

Everyone percieves others in dreams a bit differently. I agree that it's something that grabs your attention. Waking Nomad states that real dreamers are more stable and won't go away if you ignore them.

For me the person Completely Stands out from the dream. I always say it's like watching a black and white TV screen and suddenly a person in technicolor runs across the street. My dreams are often shady and very unstable, then a person shows up and they look more real and stable. you know? A lot of the times their face will be luminescent.

The very first 'dream sharing' experience I had, someone else entered my dream. I was not lucid at the time. I was just going about my business in the dream when suddenly...holy shit...there was a PERSON standing right in front of me. I mean, a REAL PERSON. It seriously startled me and felt very invasive (even though I had given this person permission to enter my dream and we had been attempting to dream share for awhile). It was so incredibly strange. Like imagine that you are alone in your shower, washing your hair, singing like an idiot...when a person just materializes right in front of you. That's how it felt. The first time.

The conversation I had with the person the next day was strange. He asked me if I remembered the dream and I said yes, you scared me. He was offended that his appearance would scare me, but eventually understood when I was able to explain it.

After that most of my dream sharing instances were much less "interactive" ...where I was actually more like a ghost just floating through their dream. I would try to contact them or interact with them, but they couldn't see me at all. I could only make observations about the surroundings and attempt to remember as much as I could so I could ask them about the dream the next day and see if I was actually there or not. Though, I have managed to wake my sister from her sleep by screaming at her even though she couldn't see me.

So my conclusion is that...dream sharing is weird, and can be experienced differently each time. Expect anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Man of Shred

For me the person Completely Stands out from the dream. I always say it's like watching a black and white TV screen and suddenly a person in technicolor runs across the street. My dreams are often shady and very unstable, then a person shows up and they look more real and stable. you know? A lot of the times their face will be luminescent.

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Exactly! The person has an actual "presence", I've even described as an aura. Normal DCs DO NOT. It's interesting that you say luminescent.

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

Exactly! The person has an actual "presence", I've even described as an aura. Normal DCs DO NOT. It's interesting that you say luminescent.

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Yes their face seems to be bright. Like i can see the life in them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Man of Shred

Everyone percieves others in dreams a bit differently. I agree that it's something that grabs your attention. Waking Nomad states that real dreamers are more stable and won't go away if you ignore them.

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The differences in perception are irrelevant for what I'm trying to isolate. I want to focus only on the initial meeting between a regular DC or a fellow dreamer.

I guess what I'm trying to describe is that meeting another dreamer doesn't grab your attention, it nudges your attention.

And I agree with Nomad about the ignoring trick. I should have been saying that all along, but I've been pushing Castaneda's finger seeing trick, which in essence is the same thing. Because that method makes regular DCs dissapear reliably, only when it doesn't, it has the added bonus of an energy body for extra confirmation. In theory.

But after reading about so many other people trying it, I think Onerio may be right, you can't see energy until you've crossed a certain gate. But from all accounts and my own dreams, it might be that instead of seeing energy (and also instead of disappearing since it's something real), it instead morphs into something else, slightly smaller, yet still archetypically related to it's original appearance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Man of Shred

For me the person Completely Stands out from the dream. I always say it's like watching a black and white TV screen and suddenly a person in technicolor runs across the street. My dreams are often shady and very unstable, then a person shows up and they look more real and stable. you know? A lot of the times their face will be luminescent.

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I know what you mean by stand out. I'd say I recognize them more by instinct, but I hope we're talking about the same thing. Also by thier behavior (once my instinct tips me off to look for it).

But that's all "after" stuff. In this thread, I want to focus on that initial moment you become aware of them. Is there an influence on your attention like a bump or a nudge? A sudden slight shift or redirection? It's hard to quantify because attention isn't always visual, although visual is a major component.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

Like imagine that you are alone in your shower, washing your hair, singing like an idiot...when a person just materializes right in front of you. That's how it felt. The first time.

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A wild analogy, but I think it fits what I'm trying to describe.

It's good to see you back and active again Nina!

what about places?

what about coming to a place in your dream that feels so alien, feels so foreign, and even so alive - you instantly feel - even if you are lucid - that this dream place can't be YOUR dream? in the same way that a fellow dreamer can not be your dream character?

I've only had one lucid dream where the feeling was that strong.

I came to this 'alien' environment through a series of doors. Kinda like falling down the rabbit hole. When I came to the last door, I literally fell down. Because on the other side of the door, the door was attached to the ceiling instead.

The dream character told me that this room is the boundary. I assumed at the time he was talking about the boundary of the mansion's property. I stood there in the empty room for a moment, I admit it felt different already. More lucid.

I fly out the window and ignore the dream characters warning that I am not safe out there. Of course I didn't care about the warning, I was lucid! I'm dreaming, nothing can hurt me!! So there's a giant dragon outside that eats people, big deal.

I fly past the courtyard, I fly past the screaming people who's fear of the dragon I found musing, and I fly into the wilderness.

At first I was fascinated with the alien wilderness that words can't describe. But my vision at first was blurry. After a while, it's like someone gave me a pair of glasses, and I can finally see.

Thats when it felt like I was smacked with a ton of bricks. "WHERE AM I!" I could see every detail of the environment, and I honestly couldn't tell you what I was looking at. I don't even know if it was organic, natural structures or man made structures. Coral like decaying buildings, and the color of rust burning your eyes.

This landscape was alien in every sense of the word, in that yes it looked like an alien world, but more importantly - It was alien in that I lacked a real reference for it. It was alien in that I felt this place didn't originate from me.

It was alien in that it felt ALIVE.

It turns out the dragon of this landscape was also foreign and alien to me. Nothing like I expect my dream dragons to be. This dragon was so massive he didn't even fit in my field of view. I only caught glimpses of his body as he flew across the sky. His roar was a force of nature that an entire city could hear...and feel.

Earlier in the dream this dragon didn't bother me. Im dreaming right, nothing could hurt me.

But when I felt that I was in a living, breathing, real landscape.......then I was now dealing with a real living, breathing monstrous dragon. The dragon only terrified me when I considered the reality of this landscape. I came to believe that I was not safe, that I could actually be in real danger.

Sure I question my stupidity for even thinking that :D but then dragon roars again...............I'm a coward what can I say. I decide I want to leave, I want to go home!! And magically, the mansion just happens to be right around the corner. I quickly fly in, as the dragon gobbles half a dozen people in one bite.

The dream character was waiting for me in the empty room. Together we go back through the door, and through another door, and another door, and another door....I never felt so safe in my life. Safe in my little dream world that is 100% me. As I went through the doors the burning red world and the giant dragon felt light years away, slowly disappearing into a blip.

I am not saying I astral projected. But, I think, if we wanna talk about shared dreaming, I think its much more than just meeting another dreamer.

Can you imagine how foreign of a place someone else's mind could be?

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Originally Posted by juroara

I've only had one lucid dream where the feeling was that strong.

I came to this 'alien' environment through a series of doors. Kinda like falling down the rabbit hole. When I came to the last door, I literally fell down. Because on the other side of the door, the door was attached to the ceiling instead.

The dream character told me that this room is the boundary. I assumed at the time he was talking about the boundary of the mansion's property. I stood there in the empty room for a moment, I admit it felt different already. More lucid.

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This seriously tripped me out!

I have had that exact...and I mean EXACT same experience. And I even started writing a novel about it, because it affected me so much and I found it so interesting. :shock: ...now that is really effing bizarre. Makes me wonder more about this place, and the DC there. The one I talked to was a younger guy with dark hair. Kinda tall. Relatively attractive. He didn't tell me it was a boundary...but he did ask what I was doing in his attic. And I responded, I'm not in your attic, you're in my basement! There was some interesting dialogue, then I said, well I just happened to open a trap door on the floor of my basement (after going through a series of doors to get there) and tumble out of your ceiling.

edit: oh and thanks The Cusp :) good to see you still around

I also have similar experience with boundaries, when I was just a kid I walked through the doors, some doors looked normal but sometimes when you go deeper and deeper you then realize that you in some different location, after that all comes so bright and clear, I even in my life never experienced such clearance of vision. Now when I go trough the walls or flying I found sometimes some “boundary” or energy field. When you try to enter trough this you feel like you are coming trough a membrane or enormous physical pressure. Almost all the time I get choking (I know that it’s impossible in dream). After I enter trough this almost always find some people near that boundary sometimes there are some groups of people, some of them are peacefully, some of them give you a test that you have to take if you want to go further, some of them just warn you. If you fail the test you instantly get ported into your “home” location or just wake up.
When you meet someone in a dream then surrounding are changing unexpected all the time. Then looks like yours and dreamers mind are fighting for the superior control of dream scenario.

P.S. one time I was dreaming spiders(first time in my life), and I wanted to go out of that place and then one of the people that was inside building said if you go outside you will dye. When I go out, there was a village and around every building was energy field, and around those houses was enormous, huge spiders, that come through the energy field. The was so big so In that content I was just a nothing, I said nobody can hurt me and I go in front of that spider. Then he just moved into my side and I dyed without prematurely. That was really strange. This is similar to dream about dragon. The boundary was the house wall.

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Originally Posted by Dovanele

Now when I go trough the walls or flying I found sometimes some “boundary” or energy field. When you try to enter trough this you feel like you are coming trough a membrane or enormous physical pressure. Almost all the time I get choking (I know that it’s impossible in dream). After I enter trough this almost always find some people near that boundary sometimes there are some groups of people, some of them are peacefully, some of them give you a test that you have to take if you want to go further, some of them just warn you. If you fail the test you instantly get ported into your “home” location or just wake up.

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That is very interesting. I had a very long discussion with an experienced lucid dreamer who told me something similar. He actually experimented with EEG machines during his lucids. Apparently he was allowed to pass these barriers (for certain reasons I won't get into right now), but he had Guardian Angels that took him across. He said that each barrier they passed through, he felt intensely a pressure in his heart, as though he was being tested about how much love he has, or how much he had loved, I can't remember. There were people waiting around at the borders, like you mention. He explained that these are people waiting to transition to higher astral planes. His guides took him through, I think, 3 or 4 barriers...each time he was tested with even more force about the love he had inside him. His guides told him that he would not be able to come back to this place, and if he attempted to (without their guidance), he would die.

During these times he said that his EEG readings showed no brain activity. As though he were dead....or out of his body.

I always go trough these barriers alone. Btw, I noticed that I find these barriers only then, when something important happens to my life (I change to better side, or I face a big problems in my life and I defeat them) . When I was just a little I did this almost every night and I thought that it’s normal. Now I find these barriers really rear.

P.S. Sometimes I meet a group of “human form shadows” which is talking about of planet saving mission, Sometimes they ask my opinion, but they are always a good guys, they trying to avoid any conflicts. I meet these groups often after passing barriers, but not the same night, sometimes after I asleep I found myself in foreign territory, where these mystic “human form shadows” trying to stop a war or something like that, there I don’t have any powers, only if they give me permission to use only then I can use it, but only for good things. Sometimes even if I in highest level of lucidity I cant do almost anything just watch what is going on, I’m like a ghost.

Cusp I tried CC's finger pointing trick in a lucid last night and it didn't work to well. The characters never changed into something else or gave off energy. They would change if I briefly looked away at them while i was pointing. But objects and Dc's usually change if i look away at them and back again.

What should i try next time?