Thread: Is sharing dreams possible ?

I hope its possible, I'd like to think that when you die, you are in one huge shared ld with everyone who has ever existed ....forever.

Originally Posted by lost1

I hope its possible, I'd like to think that when you die, you are in one huge shared ld with everyone who has ever existed ....forever.

That's the goal of Tibetan Buddhism, from what I gather. You choose not to reincarnate.

I would choose that over reincarnation any day.

I think, the key to a happy long life, is having those LDs that seem to last for years.

it's the reason I try to develop my lding skills... so that if that ends up being the case, then atleast I'm prepared

Originally Posted by LostKiddo

Like the title says

It's more of an opinion based answer i wouldn't say it's imposible but i'm skeptical.

Originally Posted by Levels

If you mean actually being in the same dream as someone else, then no.

Do you have any evidence to back that up? I thought not.

Shared dreaming is a personal thing, and you can only truly 'believe' in it until you experience it. Until then its a hope. You can never truly know its not possible either.

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Do you have any evidence to back that up? I thought not.

Shared dreaming is a personal thing, and you can only truly 'believe' in it until you experience it. Until then its a hope. You can never truly know its not possible either.

Um, just a note on logical reasoning and rational thought: you don't need evidence to make a negative claim; rather, you need evidence to make a positive one. So, in the statement, "Does shared dreaming exist?", "no" is the negative statement, and "yes" is the positive. The person claiming "no" does not need evidence to back up his position, but the person claiming "yes" does. Even though it may be irrational to believe the negative statement in some cases, the person making that claim still does not require evidence.

You can claim that the planet Earth exists, which is making a positive claim. You have mountains of evidence at your disposal (literally). However, someone could still say that there is not enough evidence to make the conclusion that earth exists, even if it does go against rational thought. The person making the negative claim does not need evidence, just a solid refutation of evidence.

Does the flying spaghetti monster exist? How are you going to provide evidence that it cannot exist? All you can do is refute whatever flimsy arguments the other side has cobbled together.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Um, just a note on logical reasoning and rational thought: you don't need evidence to make a negative claim; rather, you need evidence to make a positive one. So, in the statement, "Does shared dreaming exist?", "no" is the negative statement, and "yes" is the positive. The person claiming "no" does not need evidence to back up his position, but the person claiming "yes" does. Even though it may be irrational to believe the negative statement in some cases, the person making that claim still does not require evidence.

You can claim that the planet Earth exists, which is making a positive claim. You have mountains of evidence at your disposal (literally). However, someone could still say that there is not enough evidence to make the conclusion that earth exists, even if it does go against rational thought. The person making the negative claim does not need evidence, just a solid refutation of evidence.

Does the flying spaghetti monster exist? How are you going to provide evidence that it cannot exist? All you can do is refute whatever flimsy arguments the other side has cobbled together.

Fair enough. All I'm saying is that 1. Absense of Evidence is not Evidence of Absense. 2. You can't 'believe' in shared dreaming until you have experience with it.

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Fair enough. All I'm saying is that 1. Absense of Evidence is not Evidence of Absense. 2. You can't 'believe' in shared dreaming until you have experience with it.

Granted, and it is silly to speak in absolutes, but to assume something to be true without substantial evidence is...rather foolish. I'm all for people conducting their own experiments to prove to themselves whether or not something is real (if you have results, please, aid the scientific community by volunteering at the nearest laboratory).

Originally Posted by Mario92

Granted, and it is silly to speak in absolutes, but to assume something to be true without substantial evidence is...rather foolish. I'm all for people conducting their own experiments to prove to themselves whether or not something is real (if you have results, please, aid the scientific community by volunteering at the nearest laboratory).

I have not assumed shared dreaming is true. My personal stance on it: It may or may not exist, but since my personal experience with supernatural phenomonon tells me these things may be plausible, I have some degree of confidence something like shared dreaming exists. I have an idea to test this with a friend, but I need to get lucid more often.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Um, just a note on logical reasoning and rational thought: you don't need evidence to make a negative claim; rather, you need evidence to make a positive one. So, in the statement, "Does shared dreaming exist?", "no" is the negative statement, and "yes" is the positive. The person claiming "no" does not need evidence to back up his position, but the person claiming "yes" does. Even though it may be irrational to believe the negative statement in some cases, the person making that claim still does not require evidence.

You can claim that the planet Earth exists, which is making a positive claim. You have mountains of evidence at your disposal (literally). However, someone could still say that there is not enough evidence to make the conclusion that earth exists, even if it does go against rational thought. The person making the negative claim does not need evidence, just a solid refutation of evidence.

Does the flying spaghetti monster exist? How are you going to provide evidence that it cannot exist? All you can do is refute whatever flimsy arguments the other side has cobbled together.

We are only saying that give an opinion without experience is NOT sufficient to be conclusive.

Now refute it

All I was saying is that when Kraftwerk demanded evidence that shared dreaming does NOT exist, he made a logical fallacy, as evidence must be submitted that shared dreaming DOES exist, not the other way around. Personally, I'm unconvinced either way, and plan to conduct my own experminents in this area.

Originally Posted by Mario92

All I was saying is that when Kraftwerk demanded evidence that shared dreaming does NOT exist, he made a logical fallacy, as evidence must be submitted that shared dreaming DOES exist, not the other way around. Personally, I'm unconvinced either way, and plan to conduct my own experminents in this area.

yeah, me too

I will conduct experiments myself. I really hope it's true.

Why doesn't wakingnomad and somebody else go to a lab?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

I will conduct experiments myself. I really hope it's true.

Why doesn't wakingnomad and somebody else go to a lab?

I don't think there is or there will be such a lab for some long time, because in the 'modern' world we live in most people don't even remember or care about their dreams. Besides there will always be found something more important to be tested than dreaming. But that is what I think.

Anyway, if shared dreams are possible, sooner or later people will find out

Originally Posted by TheLight

I don't think there is or there will be such a lab for some long time

Especially not in Hawaii.

Sharing dreams has not been convincingly proven possible, and according to what we know about science, it shouldn't be possible.

So you can try it, but don't get your hopes up, and be realistic about it.

Write a letter to Laberge. You know how you write him stories and questions.. write him an experiment idea, give examples of people who are good at control and have had many SDs. I don't pay attention to Nomad and Raven and Loaf and whoever else, but from what I know Nomad and Raven have had a few. Laberge will study dreams!

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Write a letter to Laberge.

I'm kind of guessing he gets a lot of people doing this.

Originally Posted by TheLight

I don't think there is or there will be such a lab for some long time, because in the 'modern' world we live in most people don't even remember or care about their dreams. Besides there will always be found something more important to be tested than dreaming. But that is what I think.

Anyway, if shared dreams are possible, sooner or later people will find out

I believe it's called Noetic Science...labs exist. Getting to the labs is another thing entirely.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I'm kind of guessing he gets a lot of people doing this.

I'm kind of guessing he reads some of them, too, if not all.

The correct term is Mutual Dreaming or Mutual Lucid Dreaming

Originally Posted by jarrhead

I will conduct experiments myself. I really hope it's true.

Why doesn't wakingnomad and somebody else go to a lab?

Originally Posted by TheLight

I don't think there is or there will be such a lab for some long time, because in the 'modern' world we live in most people don't even remember or care about their dreams. Besides there will always be found something more important to be tested than dreaming. But that is what I think.

Anyway, if shared dreams are possible, sooner or later people will find out

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Write a letter to Laberge. You know how you write him stories and questions.. write him an experiment idea, give examples of people who are good at control and have had many SDs. I don't pay attention to Nomad and Raven and Loaf and whoever else, but from what I know Nomad and Raven have had a few. Laberge will study dreams!

"Go to a lab! Go to a lab!" Yes, I want my mind to be dissected by scientists. I feel no burden to prove shared dreaming is real, because I got shit to do. Like make money. You guys sound like people that tell me I must play piano because I have long fingers. I'd rather play didjeridoo.

Anyway, I did try to contact Laberge, and got no response. I did however contact Frank Pascoe, one of the few scientists that is studying dreams, and shared dreaming. I received an email from him on the 7th of this month. I sent one back, and haven't heard from him since. Here's an excerpt from it, with his permission:

"If you haven't followed the link to my page for more info on me here it is: http://www.mysticalcompany.com/pascoeF.php. But I think you have since you mentioned my 'metaphysical' bent which is true!

Hey by the way, I've met LaBerge and have also tried to collaborate with him. He is a little eccentric and hard to get-to-know. I still would like to collaborate with him since I know some of his research interests coincide with mine but he seems to drag his feet everytime I try to talk with him. It can take months for him to get back to you. I haven't pushed it much since I'm trying to finish my school first anyway. One of his close associates has shared with me that that is just how he is, it isn't personal. People that work with him are often frustrated by this. I suspect that that's why, in part, he isn't at Stanford anymore. I hope to open my own dream lab (with or without him) and continue in the vein of his reseach by next year if not sooner. There's nobody doing that in the US anymore. The closest active dream lab, that I know of, is in Montreal now. Other sleep labs in the US occasionally do dream research but they aren't dedicated to it and their research tends to have a medical lean to it. They just ask different types of questions. There may not be anybody doing 'hard science' (meaning laboratory work) around lucid dreaming in the world right now... not that science is the 'end-all' but it is kind of fun when it comes to lucid dreaming experiments.

Feel free to share my emails with your friends... I would like to be in your community, if it works for you.

I will share more very soon... but have to go do some chores.

Hope this day finds you well, we are each other's Dreams,
Frank
"

So, who's going to fly me out to Montreal, and pay for my room and board to go to the dream lab? Right. None of you. That's what I thought. Now, stop suggesting we go to lab. Just stop.

People want us to prove what they want to believe. You want to know if it's fun to jump out of an airplane? You just gotta do it. I am not going to try to convince you that bodysurfing makes you feel like a merperson. I am not going to to try to convince you sex feels good. I can't prove any of this, nor do I care to. Yeah, shared dreaming takes practice, effort, and skill, but I believe anyone can do it. So just try it! Are we special? Yes. We all are special. Every one in the world. Especially you, or you wouldn't be reading this right now.

Personally, while remaining undecided (but skeptical) on the issue myself, I don't see what good a lab could do. The main benefit you'd get from a lab is an unbiased observer to correlate data... but the data can never be more than what the involved people tell you they dreamed about.

Things I guess you could check at a lab...

Did the dreams occur at the same time?

Did eye movements match up with reported actions?

Did metabolic rates match reported actions?

.. and honestly that's about all I can think of that a lab would be good for. Of course, I've given it all of 2 minutes' worth of dedicated thought...



But essentially, to determine if dream sharing is actually a reality, it would require the involved dreamers to very honestly compare notes, and nobody but them would be able to objectively determine anything... nobody else has any way to know if what they're reporting is completely true or accurate.


I Once had an experience where a friend and I both dreamed on the same night that we killed Death. Neither of us was lucid, nor did we even know that lucidity can be induced, though in the past we've both had random lucid dreams. We did not plan to dream anything that night... and we hadn't spoken about Death or anything... as far as I;m aware there was absolutely no reason we both had death on the mind. But if I had access to everything we experienced the day before, chances are there was something we both saw that sparked it.

And when we talked about the dreams, they were totally different. The only similarity was that we both had a personified character representing Death and one of us killed it. That in itself is pretty amazing, and we freaked on it... but we perceived death completely differently and had totally different types of dreams.

Mine was a comical dream... I saw Death as some tiny thing in a baby carriage being pushed around by a woman. He had a big rattle (the Death Rattle cleverly enough) and if it touched you you were dead. I never saw its face or any of its body, but it threw the rattle at me and I grabbed something... a piece of cloth or something, that I used to whip the rattle around in a circle and hurl it back at him. When it struck little baby Death, he died.

My friend's dream on the other hand was a swashbuckling adventure dream. The two of us were swordfighting with a cloaked and hooded reaper in a stone tower.

Interestingly though.... you have to make certain allowances when talking about dreams. Since they're completely subjective and each of us has our own dream symbolism, a character (like Death) might appear differently to each of us. Does that mean it wasn't a shared experience? I don't think so. The fact remained, we did both dream about killing death, though it was achieved differently in both dreams.

So I guess what I:m saying is, even if you can share dreams, I don't believe any objective data can be collected to prove it... in the end all you have is people telling you they shared a dream and they they're totally convinced. I don't believe any further evidence can be obtained.


It's been a few minutes since posting that and a few more thoughts occur...

What constitutes a "shared experience" in waking life? Two or more people being in the same place at the same time. But do they really experience events the same way? I've heard people tell stories about things that happened while I was there, and their stories differ sometimes substantially form the way I remember things. So even in "real life" there's some discrepancy in shared experiences. And since dreams are colored so strongly by emotional and other considerations (ie is it an adventure dream or a comedy... ) you can actually have a widely diverse array of experiences that constitute the same idea.

Think about it... in dreams you might see your friend, only he doesn't look exactly like he does in waking life. In fact he might look a LOT different!! Houses, situation etc all can be wildly different than they are in waking existence. And yet you're still dreaming about the friend, that house, or that situation. So I think a wide margin needs to be allowable to evaluate shared dreaming.

In one sense, if you both dream about the same thing, that in itself constitutes a "shared dream". But of course that's not quite what we're talking about... we're discussing actually visiting somebody IN THEIR DREAM. So it begs the question... would you be seeing the same things the same way? Or each in your own way?
Ok... Im wearing my brain out. Gotta quit here!