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    Persistent realms and other lucid dreaming techniques I use.

    , 10-02-2012 at 09:31 PM (71589 Views)
    I promised I would write something about persistent realms, and also some other techniques I use when lucid dreaming.
    Took me a bit longer than expected because I have a difficult time finding the right words to describe my thoughts.
    I quite frankly have no idea if these techniques will work for anyone else,
    so this is by no means supposed to be a tutorial, or anything like that.
    I'm merely explaining how I do something and what my thoughts about it are.
    Maybe, if you are trying to do something similar, there's an idea or two you might find useful.
    Basically, I'm giving you a "behind the scenes" look on a dream where I "created" a persistent realm, explaining when I use certain techniques that are not apparent just by reading the DJ entry.
    I highlighted important stuff and techniques in bold in case this is too much text and you simply want to skip over it.
    Anyways... here goes.

    What is a persistent realm?
    It's a term I use to describe certain kinds of dreams I have.
    Dreams that are persistent, meaning where your actions have consequences, dreams you can resume each night where you left off.
    So why do I call them "realms"?
    Well, for me these kinds of dreams are a bit more than just persistent.
    There are a few more unique characteristics to them:
    • Persistence - When you "enter" a realm, you "resume" the dream where you left of last time. (more or less)
    • Consequences - Because of the persistence, every action you take has consequences. If you change something it will remain changed forever. For example, people will remember you and the conversations you've had with them.
    • Laws & Dream Powers - A realm has a set of laws of physics (fitting the setting of the realm), which may be different from waking life. There may be ways to cast magic for example. You can learn, understand, use (and abuse) these laws, but you can never do anything that violates them. (Such as using dream powers) If a character does something ridiculous then it means that there is a law enabling him to do so, and you most likely can learn to do the same thing.
    • Realism - Those dreams feel pretty damn real. I assume the main reason behind this (besides the technique I use) is that all dream characters are intelligent. You won't encounter the typical "derpy" DC who seems completely lost. DC's are intelligent and follow their own agenda. Their actions can be completely unexpected.

    How does one create a persistent realm?
    It took me some time to come up with an idea for that one.
    As I mentioned earlier it's not really a technique.
    It's more of a state of mind kind of thing... it's difficult to come up with an explanation.
    I guess the best way I can explain it is by fully elaborating on my train of thoughts.
    That unfortunately means a LOT of text, but I really don't see a better way of doing this.

    I am fully aware that fully persistent dreams are possible because I have experienced them for many years.
    The realm containing Teraluna is definitely persistent and my basis for any ideas I've come up with.
    The issue is that I've never knowingly created it. I've been dreaming about it ever since I was a young child.

    But then I realized that this isn't the point.
    The point is that it still works.
    I can still go there. The persistency is never broken. I still can't use dream powers.
    Why is that? Why does this never fail?
    I believe the reason behind this is very simple...

    Say for example you want to summon an item in a lucid dream. You need a key to unlock a door.
    What do you do? You use some kind of summoning technique:
    I'll just search my pockets. I might have it on me? Why else would I come to a locked door if I wouldn't have the key?
    This is a trick of course. One that works rather well.
    Just searching your pockets is a common and easy summoning technique in lucid dreams.
    Guiding your thoughts towards believing that the chances are high that you have that item on you will futher increase the summoning chances.
    So guiding your thoughts is an interesting technique to keep in mind.
    But something more important first:

    When you succeed and find the key, something very obvious happens.
    Something easily overlooked.
    Once you find that key and you hold it in your hand... it won't disappear.
    I mean, why would it? It doesn't make any sense for an item to just vanish.
    So what's the reason behind that?
    The key won't disappear because I know that it won't disappear.
    Is it really that simple?
    The realm of Teraluna is persistent, because I know it to be persistent.
    Is that all there is to it? Is the answer that simple?
    But there's another thought anchored somewhere deep within my mind
    I know that creating a persistent realm must be extremely difficult.
    Such a train of thoughts is toxic to lucid dreams.
    It's there because of many reasons.
    • I've never managed to create a persistent realm at will, so it must be hard.
    • Creating entire realms feels like an overwhelmingly big task.
    • You don't often hear people claiming to have done this so it must be hard.

    The list goes on.
    While some of these deeply anchored thoughts benefit you, others, like the ones I just listed, disable you.
    In my opinion they are absolutely crucial to lucid dreams.

    At this point it is clear to me what the technique to create such a persistent realm must encompass:
    1) Bypass the I know that creating a persistent realm must be extremely difficult. thought, create a new realm and access it.
    2) Make yourself "know" that his is a persistent realm. You can go back whenever you want.

    But you cannot just selectively remove ideas that are so deeply anchored within your mind and insert new ones.
    That just doesn't work. You can't just decide to "know" something.
    You can think about it, educate yourself on it, discuss it,
    and eventually it might change. But you cannot consciously edit something you "know".
    If you think about it, it happens all the time though. Your ideas, beliefs and even knowledge changes, in the blink of an eye.
    It just happens.
    And I argue that this process happens sub-consciously.
    I also argue that you are able to interact with your sub-conscious in different ways when you are dreaming,
    albeit in no way that I think anyone fully understands.

    Think about the example with summoning a key I used earlier.
    I guided my thoughts towards believing that I already had the key on me.
    I never directly thought that the key must be in my pocket.
    I merely started a train of thoughts and let my sub-conscious finish it for me.
    This is something extremely powerful in dreams, if you can do it.
    This doesn't always work of course, but it is such a versatile and powerful tool, albeit difficult to control.

    Expectations, hope, fear, they all play a very important role during dreams.
    When you first learn to fly, you do so by trying to do it over and over again, thus increasing your expectations that it will work with every small success you have.
    But creating entire realms is not really a process that can be learned like that, it simply takes too long.
    A more instantanious method is required, like the one used in summoning the key.

    Understanding this, I was able to come up with a technique that works for me.
    Creating, or rather going to a new realm is pretty straightforward, all I need to use is a teleportation technique.
    Making myself believe or "know" that this is a persistent realm is the tricky part.
    I need to guide my thoughts towards believing this, without actually thinking that I am guiding my thoughts towards this goal, and without finishing it consciously.

    I hope this makes sense...
    Anyways, here are some DJ snippets from an entry where I tried to do this very thing,
    with my current thoughts on it.

    Creating a fully persistent realm
    I get out of bed and rather quickly become aware that I am dreaming.
    Going through my usual routine of rubbing my hands and remembering my current dream goals,
    I eventually remember that I wanted to try the whole persistent realm thing again.
    Last time ended in a disaster, but after my recent reflections on the topic I'm somewhat confident
    that I'll manage to do it again. And maybe this time I won't die like an idiot half an hour in.
    This is a difficult task, so I further increase my lucidity until I feel it has reached a sufficient level.

    I do this using a technique I use both for stabilization and increased lucidity.
    I have found that for me, the stability of my dreams and my level of lucidity is strongly (but not exclusively) related
    to how clearly and reasonably I'm thinking.
    By forcing myself to solve rather complex problems, using mostly logic, and verifying that I have solved them correctly,
    I manage to assure that I am indeed thinking clearly.
    Knowing this I am very confident that my dream will remain stable, and that I will maintain a high level of lucidity.
    This is somewhat crucial for this task, because it all revolves around a rather complex and entirely mental technique.

    I breathe in deeply and exhale, whilst stretching to prepare myself for the task at hand.
    I am amused by the realization that stretching a dream body makes little sense, but quickly focus on the task at hand again.
    I try to relax myself as much as I can.
    I imagine myself standing inside of a bubble containing the current dream.
    A bubble created solely by my sub-conscious.
    I need to push myself out of it in order to go to real worlds.

    This is important.
    If you want to experience an entire world or setting (Hogwarts, Middle-Earth...), never try to create it right in front of you.
    There will be inconsistencies, DCs will go out of character, forget what they're supposed to do...
    In my experience, it just doesn't work right.
    Instead try to go there.
    Don't create Hogwarts, instead go to the real Hogwarts.

    I do this by leaving my dream bubble (just a bubble containing my current dream), and going to an entirely new place.
    Doing so I have an easier time believing that I am in a real place, and not in a dream controlled by my own sub-conscious,
    which renders dreams much more realistic.

    I drift away from my dream body, quickly reaching the limits of my small dream bubble, which only encompassed my house.
    As I gain distance, I find myself in a place that resembles a galaxy. My dream bubble is a very faint star, quickly becoming invisible within
    the sea of bigger and much more vibrant stars.
    It is cold and dark out here.
    I understand that these stars are other realms, which I can probably visit.
    This time I won't just pick one at random though.
    I would love to have a persistent realm in a sci-fi universe.
    I float from star to star waiting for something to indicate such a sci-fi universe I suppose.
    Whilst I don't receive such a sign, one star catches my attention for no apparent reason.
    I nearly dismiss the thought before realizing that I might as well go with this one, as nothing special is happening.

    Intuition is another powerful tool in lucid dreams.
    When you are lost, or if you need to take a decision without knowing which one is beneficial to you, go with your intuition.
    It manifests itself in different ways, but most often as no more than a faint feeling, which you'll usually dismiss
    unless you consciously look out for them.
    Obviously, your intuition isn't always right, and it is difficult to tell it apart from your own imagination in dreams.
    But when you have nothing to go on, intuition is always better than nothing.

    I approach the star, which is considerably increasing in size as I get closer, pondering on how I entered a new realm last time.
    But I have no time to finish that thought. I am drawn into the realm by a superior force and loose vision for no more than a split second.
    A new scene pops up instantaneously, as if someone had punched me in the face.
    There is no blurriness, no transition period as is common with scene changes in dreams, nothing like that at all.
    The new scene is just there.

    First steps in a new world
    I am quite disorientated. It is very loud. There's people talking all around me.
    Apparently I'm queuing for something. I try to look around to get an idea as to where I am, but this proves
    rather difficult as there's people all around me, most of them a little taller than I am.
    I need to get out of the crowd.
    Fortunately, it looks like I was next in line for whatever people are queuing for anyways.
    I pass a man and faintly hear him say "Passport please!", but it barely registers.

    Whilst I did hear him say that, the thought never registered.
    I immediately forgot about it, and was only reminded of it a few seconds later:

    I need to see if this place is real or if I ended up my own dream bubble.
    Someone grabs onto my shoulder and stops me rather unexpectedly...
    I just keep moving because whomever that is is of no importance to the dream.

    When I know that a DC isn't important, and I decide not to interact with them, they will always disappear.
    This is somewhat crucial, because without this the following wouldn't have surprised me as much as it did.

    I can't seem to shake myself loose and turn around rather annoyed.


    The man who stopped me is wearing some kind of uniform and is looking at me rather angrily.
    He's resting his right hand on what appears to be a holstered firearm.


    Huh? What?
    He's slowly moving his gun out of his holster.
    Finally it strikes me.
    This is not my dream.
    This is real.
    I'm in trouble.

    There were a lot of thoughts shooting through my mind at that moment.
    No dream character would ever behave like that. I never investigated that thought any further, because it all seemed so obvious.
    I realized at that moment that I had succeeded. The realm was real.
    Fortunately, due to the trouble I was in, I never followed up on that thought, so I never questioned the conclusion I came to.
    "Wow, I'm so sorry, I was completely lost in thoughts there."

    That should buy me a few seconds. He rolls his eyes and pushes his gun back into the holster.
    He holds out some kind of tablet device to me, clearly expecting me to do something with my passport.
    Fortunately, a quick glance to my side reveals a person in another queue wiping something credit card sized over a similar device, and attaching it to her belt.
    I quickly search my belt, hoping that I have a similar card and I get lucky.
    I mimic the motion of the other person, which is followed by a rather friendly beep from the device I swiped the card over.
    That sounded like it worked.

    "Haha, sorry about that."

    He couldn't care less. He has already turned his back towards me.

    At this point I was completely absorbed by the dream.
    The thought that this might just be a normal dream never occured to me.
    I knew that this place was real, which in return means that it is persistent and that I will be able to go back to it.
    It worked, and it did so rather quickly, without taking much of an action at all.
    I didn't actively guide my thoughts much, besides the teleportation technique I used.
    But I didn't have to, because my state of mind about persistent realms carried over into my dream.
    My sub-conscious solved the problem for me.
    It came up with a scenario that would trick itself into thinking that I was a visitor in another realm.

    If in your lucid adventures, you ever find yourself in a situation where you have no idea where you are and what you are doing there, check your pockets!
    It might sound obvious, but in dreams you often don't think about doing the obvious.
    Realize that it makes no sense for you to be anywhere with empty pockets.
    At the very least you should have your wallet on you, but more importantly, you might have something on you indicating what you are here for.

    I get away from the crowd and find myself in a very large hallway.
    There's windows on both sides, revealing that I am in orbit around a planet.
    Holy shit I'm in space!
    Spaaaace station~

    But I'm completely lost. I have no idea where I am or even who I am.
    Alright... one step at a time.
    I start moving towards the end of the hallway, but draw my focus towards the contents of my pockets.
    I empty them both, whilst still walking, and investigate their contents.

    I have on me:
    • The passport thing
    • Some kind of crystal, consisting of rectengular shapes. It might be a key.
    • A small package with another credit card looking thing attached to it.

    A key? Oooooooh.
    I might have a spaceship!
    How awesome would that be? Yeah. I definitely have a spaceship.
    I put everything back into my pockets and check where I currently am.

    I find myself in front of hangar 4, which is of course a spaceship hangar.

    See what I did there?
    I solved 2 problems at the same time. I didn't just investigate the contents of my pockets.
    Before doing so, I started walking into a direction that took me away from where I previously was.
    Putting my focus on something else put my body into auto-pilot.
    You know, like when you're gaming with your friends late at night, and you quickly go downstairs to grab something to drink, but your thoughts are entirely focused on the game?
    Sometimes you find yourself back in front of your pc with a cold beverage, without really remembering the process of getting it. (Or maybe my gaming addiction is just out of control )
    You can abuse this in dreams if you want to go somewhere, but you don't know how to get there, or if you simply have no idea where to go.
    It can be tricky at first, because you can't stop thinking about it, but you'll quickly get a hang of it.
    In this case I got the idea of the key being for my spaceship mid-way. (Spaceships use ignition keys, just like cars right? *cough*)
    My body automatically walked me towards where this spaceship is, even though I did not know where it was.
    Somewhere deep within my thoughts I knew that I had gotten to this space station somehow.
    If the key indicates that I own a spaceship, then I would have arrived in this spaceship, and I would also remember where I parked it.
    Putting myself in "autopilot" I can walk to locations that make sense for me to know within the dream plot, even if I don't consciously know where they are.

    There's quite a few small spaceships in here.
    All sorts of contraptions, reaching from luxury boats to things that are close to falling apart.
    Is one of them mine? Which one is mine?
    I go deeper into the hangar to get a better view of all the ships and then I spot her.

    Yeah... there's no doubt whatsoever. That must be mine.
    She's reasonably sized, bigger than a jet fighter, but smaller than say the space shuttle orbiter.
    And she has... uh... let's say she has seen some better times?
    It seems like there used to be a layer of paint on it, but that's nearly peeled off entirely.
    There are many dents on the outer hull, surrounded by dark dust.
    Probably projectile impacts, judging by the consistent size and patterns.
    There's quite an abundant amount of scratches on it as well.
    And... is that a heat shield?
    Oh god...
    The heat shield is mostly pitch black, but you can clearly see in some spots that it is supposed to be a red / golden color.
    Might have had a few atmospheric re-entries at optimistic speeds...
    There are a few hull plates of inconsistent size that are clearly newer than the rest of the hull.
    A few patched up holes...?

    What a piece of shit...
    I absolutely love it!
    I wouldn't have it any other way. This is so me. This feels right.
    And compared to the other ships in this hangar it clearly has the largest engine to ship ratio!
    I get a bit of a Han Solo esque vibe.

    As I approach it a large chunk of the hull plating slides itself forward, revealing an airlock.
    A ramp extends just in time so I can get to it easily.
    The airlock opens automatically as I get close enough and closes behind me as I go through...

    Your sub-conscious has the unique ability of shaping your dreams in such a way that you can experience something beyond your expectations and your imagination.
    However, things will not always go according to plan, and may even seem unpleasant at first.
    But given enough lucid dreams you'll find out that you can find enjoyment, even in things that do not seem pleasant at first.
    The best example I have for this is pain.
    Obviously you wouldn't want to experience pain in your dreams right?
    I thought so for a long time, but I realized I was wrong after a rather epic fight, where I could feel every single cut and bruise on my body.
    It made the fight feel so much more real and important, it increased the experience as a whole.
    If you've ever played a pen&paper rpg, you probably know that it can be more interesting to play more of a "normal" character.
    You don't always need to be the hero with the best equipment, who is destined to save the world.
    In dreams there's joy to be found everywhere. It will find you, all you have to do is accept it.

    I wasn't sure at first whether or not I should mention this, due to the toxic thoughts I wrote of earlier.
    But yeah, the whole persistent realm thing comes at a price: it is persistent.
    Well duh, of course it is.
    But in my case this means that my life is persistent as well.
    If I die in a persistent realm I can never go back to that realm.
    I've lost 2 of them due to death, and I tried getting back to one of them for quite a long time, but eventually I gave up.
    I guess it is better this way. It makes the other realms feel more valuable and my decisions more important.
    Regardless, I suggest that you value your life, should have similar persistent dreams.
    However, in order to progress in your dreams you will occasionally need to make a leap of faith.
    Make sure that you take them sparsely, and that intuition is on your side.

    Going back
    This is rather straightforward. I just teleport with the intention of going back to the realm.
    I do this as soon as I can after creating the realm (next stable lucid), so my thoughts about it are still fresh.
    I try to visit it as often as I can during the following days, so that everything settles in.
    Once I've gone there a few times my confidence is so high that I can't really imagine loosing the ability to resume the realm whenever
    I desire to do so.

    In case you want to try to do something similar to my persistent realms technique, here's a few suggestions:
    • You'll need a teleportation technique. As I mentioned earlier, creating is bad, going to is good. There's no need to copy my teleportation technique though. Any technique should work fine, use what you feel most comfortable with.
    • Don't actively try to find something that indicates that the realm "must be real". You cannot force the issue. The realization has to strike you unexpectedly. Having the correct state of mind in waking life, and simply intending to go to such a realm should be all you need to do.
      If the epiphany doesn't happen, just try again.
    • If something is completely off (DC's are retarded, something clearly violates the law of your realm...) just consider this attempt a failure, and try again next time. Never attempt to fix it using dream powers.
    • You need good dream recall with a good lucid rate so you can go back multiple times over the course over the next few days.
      You also need a high level of lucidity, so that you can quickly process complex thoughts properly.

    Anyways, that's more than enough text for a single entry.
    If you have any thoughts or questions about persistent realms and/or other techniques I use, by all means, post ahead.

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    Updated 10-02-2012 at 09:38 PM by 37117

    lucid , side notes


    Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
    1. gab's Avatar
      Hyu, have you considered posting this excellent article in maybe Dream Control? We always have people interested in creating stable environments. It would be awesome, if you would.
      Hyu likes this.
    2. Hyu's Avatar
      Hmm, I don't know. With some modifications maybe?
      In this article I write about other realms, dream bubbles and Teraluna, basically the way I experience things.
      I believe this might be somewhat confusing to someone who has not read some of my DJ entries.
      Perhaps if I generalize the ideas a bit more, and explain them without referring to Teraluna or using confusing terms?
    3. gab's Avatar
      Whatever you think is the best. I think it would be an excellent addition to the forum. And of course, it's your choice which forum to post it in. Thank you.
    4. Saizaphod's Avatar
      Awesome job, I'm super glad and thankful for your time and effort for writing such a long guiding tool!
    5. SinisterDezz's Avatar
      The whole thought of persistence is amazing... The thought of death though, is intimidating. I would love to try this out, and look forward to the friends and family I shall meet through this. Value your life, how unexpected. Actually having to be cautious and knowing that the realm will be lost if you die, makes it all that more compelling.
    6. Loooo's Avatar
      What about written text in those persistent dreams? Can you look at it several times and it still has the same words and meaning?
      And what about time? Do you feel those dreams last longer than normal? At least in your dream journal it reads as if the dreams last a long time.
    7. DrX's Avatar
      Thanks for this post. Very interesting stuff.
    8. BadAssLongCoat's Avatar
      Hope I'm not necro bumping, but you could totally use this sort of stuff to write fiction books...
      MadMonkey likes this.
    9. melissajuice's Avatar
      I've experienced something somewhat similar, and I think this tutorial is brilliant! I agree with everything, for the most part.

      Except for your point on Survival.
      If I die in a persistent realm I can never go back to that realm.
      I think this thought is toxic, and you can never go back to that realm because you expect to not be able to go back. If you establish in your dreams that you are uniquely powerful and can respawn back, then you can! I've had a very important DC die trying to save someone, which left me in shock, but in the next dream, he seemed fine again. He was recovering in a hospital like place, and someone just told me "he's back." I myself respawn too, and I've established that as "the law" in many of my "realms." I think doing something like this can be a workaround to believing that dying in a persistent realm can stop you from returning. Just pop up again and say "guess who's back!"

      Also, I half agree with your point on making it "real." There is an advantage to that, like giving up some control for realism, feeling more engaged in the dream, etc. It's more exciting that way. But it comes at the cost of being tempted to create toxic laws (like the survival law above) to make things feel real. I dream with a mindset of not needing to believe that things are "real," while still getting all the benefits of realism. I might write a tutorial or a post on that one of these days... it bypasses a lot of mindsets that I feel are toxic while still getting the job done and offering a lot more flexibility.

      I totally dig your autopilot walking technique though. I've probably done it without knowing, but now I'll actively try to do it. Brilliant! And all the stuff about "guiding your thoughts, but not consciously finishing the thought" is also genius. Because sometimes after finishing the thought, your brain likes to REALLY wrap it up by adding a "p.s. but what about >insert toxic thoughts here<"

      Thanks for writing this wall of text!
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