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    Thread: Stephīs DILD Workbook

    1. #51
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    2. #52
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      Oh - my bad - now I also looked it up!!
      My grandparents and my parents were using it for chaos - but in the rather funny way - like people coming and going and disorganisation - nothing like the biblical void - my bad..
      Now I learned some background to this word I use quite carelessly - I read it in an English book - and I assumed the exact same meaning - well - because it fitted in that specific context quite exactly..

      No - I am not depressed and not in Old Testament mood either!

      I wasnīt aware this is biblical - maybe Jiddisch from a grand-grand-grand-father - because there was another word once which I forgot now..
      Oh well - thanks for having me learn this term in itīs full implications!

    3. #53
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      Oh, not at all. I saw this entry search result:

      In modern French, "tohu-bohu" is used as an idiom for "confusion" or "commotion". Also in colloquial German, "Tohuwabohu" means "great confusion";
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    4. #54
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      Ah - good!
      Na then - all is in non-tohuwabohu!
      Except my sleeping cycle..

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      Weell - I guess, I could call this progress after total dryness in the lucid department for more than a week:

      First of all - I had one dream, where I talked about lucidity..
      Later after a WBTB WILD-attempt - I had a false awakening - but I didnīt RC - gaah.gif

      Actually - maybe it was even more than one - I dreamt about being disturbed from a WILD-try (directly after doing one for real) - so I got up - in our old house - again I didnīt realize this as a dream-sign.
      Found another place to try - got disturbed again - maybe it even happened twice..
      It could have been a WILD-try in a NLD, which actually could have worked - like CanisLucidus has described it..

      Altogether I did two WBTB WILD tries last night - the first a la Sageous - the second (with the FA) with SSILD.

      Naja - RareCola has advised in the podcast I listened to last night - to see even only dreams about lucidity as a step in the right direction.
      So I do that - and conclude, that something more has happened last night than the nights before..

      At least I RCed the two further awakenings diligently and thoroughly - I urgently need to make a real habit of it.
      Not sure, if I might not have missed out on some FAs, which I didnīt realize even in hindsight.
      Namely ones, which had me waking up in my room, supposedly - this one was identifiable by the other location - but only in hindsight.
      Last time when it worked - it was also waking up in an unusual place - and that for the second time - that was fat enough a hint for me..


      Do you have special tricks on offer, how to recognize dream-signs, when they are never showing up in real life??
      It would be so easy, if I could do that - my dreams are full of them - but none of them I can RC on in real life..

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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      Do you have special tricks on offer, how to recognize dream-signs, when they are never showing up in real life??
      It would be so easy, if I could do that - my dreams are full of them - but none of them I can RC on in real life..
      You can visualize the dream sign during any day practice/RCs/RRCs and the like. Imagine that old home for example and imagine that you are seeing it in a dream and practice how you will proceed from there (perhaps RC, stabilize, think about goals). You can also use a mantra. "When I see (old house), aha! I am dreaming!" or similar...Not necessarily special tricks but humble tips.

      I also have some work to do on RCing during supposed awakenings and FAs, so I hear you there!
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    7. #57
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      Thank you once more - and I found a post of yours - advising to try out writing down mantras lots of times - besides reciting.
      When I have to really learn and understand something - I write out a lot - helps me to remember and really fix into my mind.
      That is better than reading and even listening.
      So I might try that out as well.

      I did two little exercises today - and will see to do three more.
      Imagining my dream-signs and me becoming lucid and reciting: "I see our old house - Aha!! I am dreaming!"
      And the same with some DCs, who keep returning.
      I really like the "Aha!" part of it!

      Last night - I was drunk, when I fell into bed around 3 am or even later - pretty much normal proceedings on a Friday - but yesterday was worse - a mate came along later with a bottle of very fine whiskey.
      As rarely as I drink this stuff - as much do I like it..

      I might drag up a fragment or two from the haze of last nightīs dreams later - but not even sure about that..
      Naja - competition only started - this night I promise myself to at least journal properly, and see if I can not catch more than one full dream.
      I should be able to do so - only usually I am too sleepy/unwilling to dictate.
      I keep expecting, to remember the stuff anyway, when in these small awakenings ..

      I really think, the comp brings about a bit more seriousness in the overall-approach.
      Like not fooling myself - and getting at daytime work for real and with concept.
      If I have cobbled together a concept - a real routine - I let you know.

      Yepp - thatīs it for now - just a little report - itīs on me now, to make use of all the help and hints and motivation!
      And I will - yepp!

    8. #58
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      Good luck!

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      Thank you gab!!



      Species, that are super easy to abduct:
      Not giraffes!

    10. #60
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      How exactly do you do your WILDs, fogelbise - you said you integrated your own variations - could you tell me about this, please?

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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      How exactly do you do your WILDs, fogelbise - you said you integrated your own variations - could you tell me about this, please?
      I got most all of my WILDs after doing SSILD cycles which usually just give me DILDs. My variation is with the SSILD cycles...I don't think I am trying anything new with the WILDing part of my process though. My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct. Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs. I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways. The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise" as Sageous says. The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake. When trying to WILD I will do the combined cycles in each breath longer than when trying to DILD but may stop for a while especially if HHs. I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or if nothing seems to be happening. A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream.

      I did two little exercises today - and will see to do three more.
      Imagining my dream-signs and me becoming lucid and reciting: "I see our old house - Aha!! I am dreaming!"
      And the same with some DCs, who keep returning.
      I really like the "Aha!" part of it!
      Me too...it seems to help evoke that feeling that the dreamer feels in that moment when they become lucid in a DILD, thus it puts a little more feeling into a lucid dreaming mantra I feel.
      Last edited by fogelbise; 12-15-2013 at 07:16 AM.
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    12. #62
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      WhoopHoopDiSchnoop!!

      Soo happy - I counted out 7 days without any LD - and now - I had one!!

      Finally Lucid Again - Being Hugged And Swirled And Keeping Eyes Closed TOTM - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      Thank youhuu!

    13. #63
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      Awesome Steph!!

      Great awareness recognizing a dream sign!!

      The wings look great!!
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    14. #64
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      Hehe - they do - donīt they?
      Even in perfect colour-match - this set!
      Of course I want the others, too - but these just really fit perfectly!

    15. #65
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      Now I have taken the time and studied your great answer a bit more.

      thank-you.gif

      By the way - how do you come to your name??
      I wanted to ask this since aages!

      I got most all of my WILDs after doing SSILD cycles which usually just give me DILDs.
      My variation is with the SSILD cycles...I don't think I am trying anything new with the WILDing part of my process though.

      My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back).
      This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct.
      Okay - so you basically do the longer cycles as a warm-up - with all three parts of the breathing, and twice - for one sense. CosmicIron did - as far as I remember start out with short turns for each sense - but like 15 sec. - so much more than two breaths.
      And later then, he asks to do each sense for a longer time.
      What you do could almost called "rapid cycling" ..hehe. Will try this out definitively!

      Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath.
      I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out.
      Do you breathe completely evenly?
      When I concentrate on my breath - like for calming down - I count on 3 (or even up to 5) in, 2 pause, 5 (up to 8) out.
      I think my natural breathing has a tendency like this as well.
      Do you consciously create an even breathing pattern or just use it as it comes?

      When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them.
      Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs.
      So -when you come up with HHs from your SSILD DILD prep - then do you go for WILD?
      I had them as well once in my tries (vibration and a "real" visual) - and I actually believe all the downplay on them is a bit weird.
      Maybe some people have a problem with over-importance-attaching - but - I feel they fall short in a way.
      So you say - when you get the HH - you experiment with various things - please tell me about these things!
      I will really, really try - and I think, I can "get to"* that HH state again, with a bit more patience - but what follows then - in your personal practice and experience?

      I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways.
      The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise" as Sageous says.
      Hm - okay - but didnīt you say, that you stop SSILD and then go for WILD, when that trance conjures up the HHs?
      So - how can SSILD keep your mind from being too active with the HHs?

      Shouldnīt the mind be anchored with SSILD on the senses, so that you do not fall unconscious, before you reach the portal? Or make you prone to be aware of getting these unusual inputs, when HH/the dream starts?
      I canīt help to think of HHs as portals and are useful in some way to access a dream.
      Do you do something like this - or whatever with them?
      Just as an aside - do you get to feel a sort of SP (maybe just knowing, you are disconnected from your body, so you canīt move it - this then not being something negative, but actually desirable - like the vibrations - I mean - feeling them is a great way of knowing, the transition is imminent - and keep your consciousness on track like that?

      The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake.
      Yeah - that was what I meant - I just donīt get the keeping the mind away from HH part with SSILD - if you donīt even continue with it while they come..?

      When trying to WILD I will do the combined cycles in each breath longer than when trying to DILD
      Do you mean, you still take optics for breathing in, hearing for pause etc. - just the duration of each breath is longer?
      Or more breaths for one sense - I just want to make sure, I understand..

      but may stop for a while especially if HHs.
      Exactly - so you do stop, when there are HHs - and what do you do then?
      Nudge them on - try to develop them?

      I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or if nothing seems to be happening.
      A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream.
      Again - so you do go about SSILD in order to get to the HH state - "something happening" when you want to WILD!
      The question remains from above - what do you do - or maybe feel/let happen in the HH stage?
      What I had after 2 min. was so strong and so typical - I believe I "get there again"* - just need a bit more motivation, I guess.
      * I am aware they are an means to an end - and not the end, really..

      Many people seem to feel - sort of morally bound to say: do not put any importance on HH (let alone SP..).
      But in the end - almost all reports go like this - some technique - something happening - WILD.
      I guess you do use the "happenings" in some way?

      Me too...it seems to help evoke that feeling that the dreamer feels in that moment when they become lucid in a DILD, thus it puts a little more feeling into a lucid dreaming mantra I feel.
      Yepp!
      This bringing in emotionality is great - like my little "aha - gab!!" moment on the street.


    16. #66
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      *I should preface my response by saying that, in case anyone else is reading this, WILD questions should probably go somewhere other than the DILD workbooks. I may not always be the DILD teacher so I don't want to lay the groundwork for this being a much more all-encompassing job (volunteer job) for future teachers. I also am far from being well-versed on WILDs so take my experiences with a grain of salt. That being said, Steph has been such a wonderful addition to our DV community that I want to answer her questions that started due to our discussion here.

      Okay - so you basically do the longer cycles as a warm-up - with all three parts of the breathing, and twice - for one sense. CosmicIron did - as far as I remember start out with short turns for each sense - but like 15 sec. - so much more than two breaths.
      And later then, he asks to do each sense for a longer time.
      What you do could almost called "rapid cycling" ..hehe. Will try this out definitively!
      Yes, except I wouldn't call them the "longer cycles" since this "warm up" takes maybe 20 seconds total.

      Do you breathe completely evenly?
      When I concentrate on my breath - like for calming down - I count on 3 (or even up to 5) in, 2 pause, 5 (up to 8) out.
      I think my natural breathing has a tendency like this as well.
      Do you consciously create an even breathing pattern or just use it as it comes?
      I would say mine is something like 3, 1.5, 3 ...though I don't think of it so strictly. I sometimes take longer breaths and perhaps on occasion slightly shorter breaths.

      So -when you come up with HHs from your SSILD DILD prep - then do you go for WILD?
      If I was either intending to in the first place or decided to start trying for one due to taking too long to get to sleep. So not when I am only intending to DILD...but also depending on the level of HH (see more further down).

      I had them as well once in my tries (vibration and a "real" visual) - and I actually believe all the downplay on them is a bit weird.
      Maybe some people have a problem with over-importance-attaching - but - I feel they fall short in a way.
      So you say - when you get the HH - you experiment with various things - please tell me about these things!
      I will really, really try - and I think, I can "get to"* that HH state again, with a bit more patience - but what follows then - in your personal practice and experience?
      Honestly, the majority of HH's I would attempt to briefly note and kind of watch it only from the "corner of my eye" like how you can see someone passing by in your peripheral vision without directly looking at them. (I got this description from Naiya's similar scenario here: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...tml#post850578 I also found this useful: Why You Fail at WILDs - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views I did experiment though as well and early on it was more just visualizing something related to the image I was just seeing hoping to form a dream around that theme. Early on that would usually only result in great visualization sessions that were clearly not dreams. Other times it would seem to fill the time until the point in which I can feel my body going to sleep and external stimuli (noise in particular) silenced. More recently I have been experimenting with gab's "I am there" method and with Naiya's (see link above) changing what you hear or sense in the HH's to something dreamlike and/or desired. This is definitely still a work in progress.

      Hm - okay - but didnīt you say, that you stop SSILD and then go for WILD, when that trance conjures up the HHs?
      So - how can SSILD keep your mind from being too active with the HHs?
      It feels more like it keeps a little bit of consciousness going through these periods in which people normally go unconscious before going completely to sleep. So not that it creates the HHs, just that it makes it more likely that you will notice them. I think that they are always there, we just don't notice them. The SSILD cycles do seem to create a trance-like state that seems to last after you stop doing the cycles. This seems to allow you to notice the HHs without thinking about them too much unless you change your focus to try to work with the HHs in some way.

      Shouldnīt the mind be anchored with SSILD on the senses, so that you do not fall unconscious, before you reach the portal?
      That may be the intention but for me it kind of works in the background and you are no longer focusing on each of the senses consciously but probably only subconsciously.

      Or make you prone to be aware of getting these unusual inputs, when HH/the dream starts?
      See above but also some of the HIs seem to occur well before the dream is ready whereas the SP-like symptoms (no longer feeling body or external stimuli - like city noises disappearing) seem to occur just before the dream, but definitely upon vibrations (for me at least) I am entering the dream.

      I canīt help to think of HHs as portals and are useful in some way to access a dream.
      Do you do something like this - or whatever with them?
      Just as an aside - do you get to feel a sort of SP (maybe just knowing, you are disconnected from your body, so you canīt move it - this then not being something negative, but actually desirable - like the vibrations - I mean - feeling them is a great way of knowing, the transition is imminent - and keep your consciousness on track like that?
      See above. Some HH's are potentially more useful than others. Have you noticed how some are just brief images and others seem to have more of a plot or dialogue to them. I think these are closer to the dream but I am still a fledgling WILDer.

      Yeah - that was what I meant - I just donīt get the keeping the mind away from HH part with SSILD - if you donīt even continue with it while they come..?
      The most important thing is getting to sleep since you can't dream without sleep. I think the people that succeed with interacting with the HH's are already at the door to the dream or know how to make their way to it or wait for it. So when DILDing I may stop because it tells me I am close to going to sleep and might be a sign that I can go ahead and drift off to sleep. When WILDing it seems like a good point to transition to WILDing techniques but again, I am still learning. I have seen Sivason talk of working with HH's as well but if I remember correctly he didn't recommend it unless someone is more advanced.

      Do you mean, you still take optics for breathing in, hearing for pause etc. - just the duration of each breath is longer?
      Or more breaths for one sense - I just want to make sure, I understand..
      No, just that I do the repetitions for a longer period of time overall. For DILDing I may stop after 2-3 minutes and for WILDing I may continue many more minutes until I feel like I am moving towards sleep or getting more advanced HHs. Even the initial simple HI's seem to interrupt the cycles and I may or may not go back to the cycles afterwards. I do if I feel like nothing is happening and I still feel like trying. I think that I may not be consistent enough with the specific things that I am trying which makes it harder to tell what is working the best, but SSILD is part of most all of my WILD tries.

      Exactly - so you do stop, when there are HHs - and what do you do then?
      Nudge them on - try to develop them?
      see the related answers above.

      Again - so you do go about SSILD in order to get to the HH state - "something happening" when you want to WILD!
      The question remains from above - what do you do - or maybe feel/let happen in the HH stage?
      Again depending on the level of HHs some are better to ignore mostly like the ones with simple imagery, others are more like the beginnings of a dream and you may have more luck interacting with them.

      What I had after 2 min. was so strong and so typical - I believe I "get there again"* - just need a bit more motivation, I guess.
      * I am aware they are an means to an end - and not the end, really..

      Many people seem to feel - sort of morally bound to say: do not put any importance on HH (let alone SP..).
      But in the end - almost all reports go like this - some technique - something happening - WILD.
      I guess you do use the "happenings" in some way?
      I have started to use them, but others like gab and Sivason seem to be much better at it. I think it is harder to early on...so still working at it.

      Yepp!
      This bringing in emotionality is great - like my little "aha - gab!!" moment on the street.
      These awareness moments are great!

      Feel free to only respond to the parts that don't make sense Steph, as it will make it easier for me to answer any remaining questions.
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      Thank you so much for going a little off topic for me there!!
      Yes - I do understand you now - I think.

      And look, look - I got one again!!
      Lucid - Again No Animated Snowman - But Some Fun With Summoning - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      And it would even have been a snowman walking - I am sure of that - if not the stupid doorbell had rung me out of it..
      I am anyway very happy - I even didnīt rip anybodyīs head off after being woken up - out of character, almost.. hehe.

    18. #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      Thank you so much for going a little off topic for me there!!
      Yes - I do understand you now - I think.

      And look, look - I got one again!!
      Lucid - Again No Animated Snowman - But Some Fun With Summoning - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      And it would even have been a snowman walking - I am sure of that - if not the stupid doorbell had rung me out of it..
      I am anyway very happy - I even didnīt rip anybodyīs head off after being woken up - out of character, almost.. hehe.
      So awesome Steph!!! I am not so sure your lucidity was all that low though with you remembering to RC several times in the 2 LDs , stabilization and remembering goals!! "Yes - I do understand you now - I think." -Let me know

      And I had to RC several times again - not high lucidity, but high realism.
      After that - I had nicely stabilized by hand rubbing and inspecting things closely.
      There it is RC, stabilization...some memory there!

      So I thought - meanwhile pretty clearly - lets make that snowman.
      I saw a birch or otherwise white-branched tree - and convinced myself of that being snow - and it snowing back there.
      I think, I get the hang of that firmly expecting stuff.
      Instantly it started snowing everywhere and strongly, and there was snow on the ground, which didnīt first have to pile up like last time.
      This second time around was so much faster and better.
      This is great Steph! Firmly expecting! Most people take a while to get that!

      I am really surprised how much practice seems to really help with specific things.
      Practicing in your dream?

      And then the damnated real life doorbell rang!!
      So it was an FA with a bear at the door? haha
      StephL likes this.

    19. #69
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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      So awesome Steph!!! I am not so sure your lucidity was all that low though with you remembering to RC several times in the 2 LDs , stabilization and remembering goals!!

      There it is RC, stabilization...some memory there!
      Thank youhu! Yeah - the second one was quite lucid - in the first, I didnīt get rid of the fear - and messed up this meetup with the DC and almost believed all was real with blurry hands..
      But then - I summoned this guy in the first place - very proud - never did that - lately, when I wanted interaction - I would go search a DC.
      Which didnīt work a lot - I didnīt really expect them to be somewhere - thatīs the trick it seems.


      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      "Yes - I do understand you now - I think." -Let me know
      Will do - which way ever!


      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      This is great Steph! Firmly expecting! Most people take a while to get that!
      It works absolutely fantastic - really - I was even nicely able to do that in the first one - I just convinced myself.
      And in the second - much better snow than last time I "conjured it up".


      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      Practicing in your dream?
      I meant making it snow.
      But now that I think of it - it might have not been due to practice - but changing method.

      I also convinced myself - of the white branches being white - not because it was a birch - but because it was snowing back there and in general - and so it was - much faster, less effort-taking especially.
      It felt like a chore last time - the making it snow - with shouting "snow" "it snows" and "I want it to snow".

      Like sometimes - even vocalizing in loud was a problem - and all took energy.
      While with this basic summoning - I had to just change my thinking - I did not feel energy being needed.

      Do you have an idea on the following:
      I had several times in lucid or normal dreams strange problems with talking - esp. loud or shouting (not always).
      There is a story - when I had a nightmare - and slept with somebody in one bed - I got told, I would have talked out loud in my dream.
      He imitated it - it wasnīt comprehensible - but it sounded like my problems in the dream in a way.


      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      So it was an FA with a bear at the door? haha

    20. #70
      gab
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      Do you have an idea on the following:
      I had several times in lucid or normal dreams strange problems with talking - esp. loud or shouting (not always).
      There is a story - when I had a nightmare - and slept with somebody in one bed - I got told, I would have talked out loud in my dream.
      He imitated it - it wasnīt comprehensible - but it sounded like my problems in the dream in a way.
      Not sure if there is a way to stop sleep talking. Maybe you could practice "willing" instead of shouting commands?

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      Thank you for answering, gab - maybe I just google sleep-talking - somehow I didnīt come up with that myself..
      But yeah - for purposes of control - that I did.
      Sub-vocalizing at DCs and expect them to hear it could be worth a try as well..

    22. #72
      gab
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      Or imagining, that your voice eminates straight from your mind, bypassing your throat. I did notice a few times, that when yelling, I thought I can feel my real throat making sounds. Not sure about that though.

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      Why not let the mind do the talking - you are right - I will see, if I manage that!
      I have heard often, that I talk in my sleep - but only once did it coincide with me having dream-recall on the difficulties.
      It probably happens a lot to me - I sleep alone for a long time now.
      Maybe the innervation of the vocalizing muscles is not blocked like the normal muscles - and this more pronounced in some people.

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    25. #75
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      Great job Steph!! You are rolling!!
      StephL likes this.

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