Thread: KonchogTashi's workbook

Welcome to the DILD workbooks KonchogTashi! Just a quick note for tonight and perhaps FryingMan will also get a chance to chime in. I keyed in on two factors for now: LD duration and your motivation. The great news is I am positive we can get your duration up significantly and that should also give you more motivation going forward! Always remember that just because it seems like the dream is ending...it doesn't have to mean that it will! Start ingraining in your thoughts that this point of the dream fading or slipping is just a transition and before you know it you will find yourself extending the dream. There are many tips out there for extending the dream like the aforementioned mindset, like keeping on the move, spinning, staying calm, catching false awakenings (you may have way more than you realize), not focusing too long on one thing, etc...Read up on these sort of things and let us know if you have any questions.

I am also middle aged by the way.

Congratulations on your return to active LD practice, KonchogTashi, and welcome to the DILD class! Dream recall and lucid dreaming are such rewarding activities, I think nobody who really experiences them can ever stay away for long!

And let me just note that I, too, am among the "mature" crowd here on DreamViews, also middle-aged.

You are in a great position, because you *know* you can lucid dream. So getting back into it will be a snap for you, I'm sure.

Your regular sleep schedule is a major advantage. (It is one of my major weaknesses -- my to-bed and out-of-bed times are all over the map). Those times where I've been rigorous about sleep schedule have seen big boosts in LD frequency, so you're already standing in good stead in this regard.

Your steady recall is also a very good sign. The more we feel "close" to our dreams, the closer we are to lucidity. Something we can investigate is how to boost your recall even higher. I'm a big fan of the notion that there is no such thing as "enough" dream recall, and that the practice of lucid dreaming involves always pushing our boundaries and abilities to higher states. We can start with looking at the process of how you do your recall. When you wake up (that moment where you find yourself awake), what do you do? How much time do you spend reaching for dream memories? Do you take any physical notes? Do you ever notice middle-of-the-night wakings at all?

As for lucid dream length, I'm sure fogelbise and I can help you with that as well. fogelbise noted that the "dream end" feeling need not actually mark the end of your actual dream. This has really hit home with me this year as I experienced many false awakenings (FAs) and other lucid dream -> non-lucid dream transitions that felt very much like a "wake up" dream ending feeling. When you think you may have awoken from a lucid dream, if you remain still and maintain a drowsy/sleepy mindset, lightly considering the dream you just had, you can fall asleep again quickly and re-enter the same dream (or start a new one).

What I've found very effective is maintaining a list of mental mini-goals of things I want to do in the dream. A "mini-goal" can be something as simple as: trying a RC you've never tried before, exploring what's in the next room or around a corner or behind a door, or a task from the task-of-the-month thread (link below). Maintaining these minigoals keeps you engaged and prevents you from "giving up" on the dream, it really helps in lengthening the experience. Also, really *enjoy* the dream, look around and wonder at it. Don't think about "I have to hurry, the dream will end soon!". Sensei (a talented LDer here on the DV forums) found that as soon as he stopped thinking or worrying about dreams ending, paradoxically, all his LDs started to last longer and longer! Length is also something that comes with experience.

Participating in the "task of the month" every month is a great way to always have a set of goals on hand, and getting those nice wings next to your avatar that last for the month is a helpful motivation! Here's this month's thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/tasks-mont...er-2014-a.html

In terms of navigating the forums, be sure to use the "Forum / What's New" menu to find new posts, and to see activity on threads you've subscribed to.

One other thing I found incredibly helpful was to rehearse the moment of becoming lucid while awake, and make up a short ritual that you always follow. Do something like: your favorite quick RC (e.g., nose pinch), rub your hands and count to 5, quickly pat down your chest and legs with your hands, then think about what your latest goals are. The first time I did this in a LD resulted in my longest and most vivid LD that I had had at the time. It was within a week or two of when I started doing those little rehearsals so it didn't take long.

Well that's a lot to take in right now so please write back if anything doesn't seem clear. Again, welcome, and I'm sure you'll be LDing in no time!

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Welcome to the DILD workbooks KonchogTashi! Just a quick note for tonight and perhaps FryingMan will also get a chance to chime in. I keyed in on two factors for now: LD duration and your motivation. The great news is I am positive we can get your duration up significantly and that should also give you more motivation going forward! Always remember that just because it seems like the dream is ending...it doesn't have to mean that it will! Start ingraining in your thoughts that this point of the dream fading or slipping is just a transition and before you know it you will find yourself extending the dream. There are many tips out there for extending the dream like the aforementioned mindset, like keeping on the move, spinning, staying calm, catching false awakenings (you may have way more than you realize), not focusing too long on one thing, etc...Read up on these sort of things and let us know if you have any questions.

I am also middle aged by the way.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Regarding factors leading to LDs having a short duration, I have picked up on two that seem to precipitate a quick ending. The first is excitement. I still get a bit of thrill when I recognize the dream. I have gotten better about checking this, so I feel like this one will naturally work itself out as I get more experience with lucidity.

The second is a tendency to look at one thing for two long. My last lucid (about 10 days ago) I got wrapped into looking at my hands after a successful RC. The visual was just so amazing I could not move my attention to anything else. I need to remind myself to take in more of my environment and situation in general rather than getting completely fixated on one amazing detail.

I have tried spinning on several occasions but I have developed a bit of an aversion to this technique as it has always caused the dream to fade into blackness. I feel the motion of spinning but no new scene has ever emerged. Perhaps I am employing it too late in the dream.

Rubbing my hands together seems to produce a slight increase in the duration of the dream. Each time I have been able to implement it the effect has been more pronounced. Building up skill with this technique was pretty much where I left off with my last streak of practice.

Thanks once again!!

^^ Yes excitement is certainly a common factor but as you note, with experience it gets tempered. It's always awesome to get lucid, but the heart-thumping super-excited jolt feeling does lessen over time.

As for looking at things, I think it's best not to ever let any idea enter your mind that "doing XYZ ends the dream." Anything you believe tends to come true in a dream, this is the nature of dreaming.

If you believe doing XYZ will end the dream, it will. If you avoid all thoughts like this and just focus on enjoying the dream, the dream will continue longer. If you enjoy looking at things in detail, go right ahead. Maybe give yourself a little countdown like "I'll look at this thing for 5-4-3-2-1 seconds, then I'll <do something else>" Always look forward to doing the next thing, not in a rushed way, but keep that sense that you have an active "to do list."

Many times, lucidity results when we're close to waking up anyway, especially in new lucid dreamers, so don't think that just because you did XYZ and you woke up, that it caused you to wake up.

On the other hand, making sure you maintain awareness of the dream environment and your dream body are good ways to stay in the dream, as is moving your mind through a series of mini-goals.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Congratulations on your return to active LD practice, KonchogTashi, and welcome to the DILD class! Dream recall and lucid dreaming are such rewarding activities, I think nobody who really experiences them can ever stay away for long!

And let me just note that I, too, am among the "mature" crowd here on DreamViews, also middle-aged.

You are in a great position, because you *know* you can lucid dream. So getting back into it will be a snap for you, I'm sure.

Your regular sleep schedule is a major advantage. (It is one of my major weaknesses -- my to-bed and out-of-bed times are all over the map). Those times where I've been rigorous about sleep schedule have seen big boosts in LD frequency, so you're already standing in good stead in this regard.

Your steady recall is also a very good sign. The more we feel "close" to our dreams, the closer we are to lucidity. Something we can investigate is how to boost your recall even higher. I'm a big fan of the notion that there is no such thing as "enough" dream recall, and that the practice of lucid dreaming involves always pushing our boundaries and abilities to higher states. We can start with looking at the process of how you do your recall. When you wake up (that moment where you find yourself awake), what do you do? How much time do you spend reaching for dream memories? Do you take any physical notes? Do you ever notice middle-of-the-night wakings at all?

As for lucid dream length, I'm sure fogelbise and I can help you with that as well. fogelbise noted that the "dream end" feeling need not actually mark the end of your actual dream. This has really hit home with me this year as I experienced many false awakenings (FAs) and other lucid dream -> non-lucid dream transitions that felt very much like a "wake up" dream ending feeling. When you think you may have awoken from a lucid dream, if you remain still and maintain a drowsy/sleepy mindset, lightly considering the dream you just had, you can fall asleep again quickly and re-enter the same dream (or start a new one).

What I've found very effective is maintaining a list of mental mini-goals of things I want to do in the dream. A "mini-goal" can be something as simple as: trying a RC you've never tried before, exploring what's in the next room or around a corner or behind a door, or a task from the task-of-the-month thread (link below). Maintaining these minigoals keeps you engaged and prevents you from "giving up" on the dream, it really helps in lengthening the experience. Also, really *enjoy* the dream, look around and wonder at it. Don't think about "I have to hurry, the dream will end soon!". Sensei (a talented LDer here on the DV forums) found that as soon as he stopped thinking or worrying about dreams ending, paradoxically, all his LDs started to last longer and longer! Length is also something that comes with experience.

Participating in the "task of the month" every month is a great way to always have a set of goals on hand, and getting those nice wings next to your avatar that last for the month is a helpful motivation! Here's this month's thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/tasks-mont...er-2014-a.html

In terms of navigating the forums, be sure to use the "Forum / What's New" menu to find new posts, and to see activity on threads you've subscribed to.

One other thing I found incredibly helpful was to rehearse the moment of becoming lucid while awake, and make up a short ritual that you always follow. Do something like: your favorite quick RC (e.g., nose pinch), rub your hands and count to 5, quickly pat down your chest and legs with your hands, then think about what your latest goals are. The first time I did this in a LD resulted in my longest and most vivid LD that I had had at the time. It was within a week or two of when I started doing those little rehearsals so it didn't take long.

Well that's a lot to take in right now so please write back if anything doesn't seem clear. Again, welcome, and I'm sure you'll be LDing in no time!

Thanks to you as well for your quick reply!

Regarding my recall:

I feel like this is a weakness for me. I have a pretty regimented schedule and as a result I can only give recall about 10 minutes. Many times I wake up with a jumble of thoughts and impressions that immediately fade. Most of the time they do not seem to be parts of a dream, but just a mess of random, subtle, difficult to pin down thoughts. Dreams usually come after laying in bed for a few minutes and not forcing the recall issue too much. This is what killed my motivation last time. I had a long streak of 0 recall. As far as procedure goes, I usually wait a few minutes then type my dream or fragments into my phone. Occasionally when I start typing a fragment it becomes a dream which becomes 2.

I have experimented with multiple wakings and found this to be helpful, but often have a lot of difficulty returning to sleep, which creates a situation more unpleasant than low recall.

I have thought about switching to a pen and paper journal as this would allow sketching and mapping, but am concerned about the extra movement involved with rolling over to write, turning on a light, finding pen, losing the notebook, having it pirated by my children, etc.. what would you suggest here?

Regarding mini-goals:

I like this approach. I will come up with a short list and implement it in my practice. Thanks for this great tip!

The "rehearsal" suggestion is also great. I think this will help with stabilization if I make employing a technique a default operation that occurs upon recognition of the dream state. Great advice, thanks!!

KT

I was awakened in the middle of the night by my oldest child. I took advantage of this by trying to recall dreams from the previous sleep cycles: no dice, just a jumble of confusion. I also practiced MILD visualizing a previous dream and setting the intention to recognize the state. I had a little trouble falling back asleep, but it was not bad, I was awake for probably 40 minutes or so. I felt like the MILD procedure went well as I was definitely in the hypnogogic state when I let the technique go.

When I woke up I had a dream to recall but lost most of it and ended up with fragment wherein I was working with several people to refill vending machines. We were each to refill a specific machine. I know that I knew the people in the dream and that there was more to it, but all details were lost before I logged it.

following the advice of Frying man I have come up with a "recognition ritual" that I will rehearse with my daytime RCs.

1. Reality check using hand check and nose pinch.
2. Rub hands together
3. say aloud "This dream is stable and vividly clear"

Sounds great, that's a nice "just got lucid" ritual there!

As for your recall schedule, is that 10 minutes of lying quietly in bed reviewing the memories, followed by a period of journaling? Or 10 minutes for both mental recall and physical journaling? Also, how do you wake up, with an alarm? If you absolutely must have an alarm then if at all possible, find one that starts quiet and slowly builds in order to wake you as gently as possible, that can help a great deal.

As for the journaling itself, I am a big fan of voice journaling followed by a typed transcription into either the Dreamviews dream journal or a computer file. I find that a quick summary with key concepts (who? what? where?) is enough to trigger close to full recall at a later date. Of course, if you have the time, get as many details down as you can in addition to the key summary.

The act of reaching for the memory as you lie in bed after waking, in addition to the act of journaling strengthens and reinforces the ability to recall dreams. If you do it consistently, over time your recall will improve.

If you don't have a coherent dream immediately in mind upon waking (often I do not, either, unless waking directly from a lucid or near-lucid), try asking yourself (even saying it quietly out loud), "What was I just dreaming about?"

Also really effective is bed-time setting intention to remember dreams. Repeat to yourself over and over for a minute or two, "I remember my dreams," really feel this strong intention to remember your dreams.

If you have a no-recall night, don't stress over it, there's always tomorrow, and the next night, etc. Maintain a happy positive attitude towards your dreaming. Being thankful for your dreams is also a great way to remember more of them. gab likes to say "Thank you for my dreaming experiences" to her subconscious, I've done that as well and I'm sure it leads to even better results.

So those are a few more suggesionts for recall -- the main and most important one, though, is being consistent. Always go into every night *knowing* that you dream and that you intent to remember your dreams, and always quietly reach for those memories (ideally, before you move at all physically) every time you find yourself awake.

Progress update 11-14/15/16

Weekend was a tad disappointing. Friday night my sleep was destroyed repeatedly by my youngest child. Parental duties trump practice, and the end result is 0 recall. Saturday was a great day for daytime training. I logged many state checks in diverse situations and made many aspirations to apprehend the dream state. Saturday night I had a few to many cocktails with the spouse, and the end result was another night of no recall. Spouse and I enjoyed ourselves, so no regrets here.

Sunday was another day of excellent daytime practice, developing the critical mindset with state checks and making many aspirations to recognize the dream state. Sleeping conditions were much more favorable Sunday night. This paid off with a very vividly recalled set of dreams. The sequence of events is a little jumbled, but it involved multiple Halloween parties. Even got a good DC quote " you got a lot of nice stuff, are you a hobo?" I spent a while journaling this and actually stopped before I got it all down. Good stuff!

I am glad I signed up for the course as the accountability is obviously helping to build enthusiasm for practice.

All in all I'd say it sounds like a pretty good weekend! Interruptions happen, cocktails with spouse happen, nothing wrong with that, in fact I think it's good: when one is happy and relaxed, you get better dreaming results, once the alcohol wears off, that is...Concerning alcohol, there are tales of those who have very vivid dreams late in the morning after imbibing, I for example had my first DEILD late in the morning of January 1st, 2014 (now that's a great way to start the year right, with a LD on Jan 1st!). This could be a case of REM rebound, since alcohol is considered to suppress REM.

But you got right back in the saddle and had some vividly recalled dreams, so that's great! Amidst the poor night conditions, you kept up your daytime practice. That pattern reminds me a lot of someone I know -- me! I'm great at daytime work but night work can be challenging, either due to conditions or poor choices (not establishing a regular sleep schedule).

Lucid dreaming is about getting many different things to all come together (awareness work, dream recall, sleep schedule, positive attitude, strong intention, etc.). Keep working on them all, individually, and in combination, and when you hit on that mindset and practice that effectively combines them all that works for you, lucidity will grow and grow.

^^Very true. Great info from FryingMan! I am glad to hear that you also feel that the accountability of having a workbook is another positive for maintaining a workbook! Great quote from your dream by the way: "you got a lot of nice stuff, are you a hobo?" Made me chuckle.

I can't think of anything to add FryingMan's great responses. Do you have any other questions so far?

I find that the longer I look at my hands at the beginning the better, but often I don't even think to get them up in time, I often realize I'm dreaming without the need for a RC

Originally Posted by FryingMan

^^
Many times, lucidity results when we're close to waking up anyway, especially in new lucid dreamers, so don't think that just because you did XYZ and you woke up, that it caused you to wake up.

This is quite true for me, I often (on weekends just before final awakening) become lucid right at the end of a cycle and I doubt anything could stabilize me.

As for hand rubbing have you ever tried to use it to escape the void. I have done it several times, When the world begins to fade, I rub like mad. Three times recently I was
just too far gone, I had no fingers in one case my real hands were moving in bed before the dream PALMS could connect, in the other two cases it was a losing battle where My dream
hands (PALMS became paralyzed I was lucky if I could move a finger or two. But in the past I just rubbed away on a few occasions and emerged into dreamscapes. Once I made the
mistake of thinking I don't care what dream scape comes any random one will do (I call that world MESH-KEVLAR-ARMOR under Evacuation World, it really sucked) So at least think
of where you just were or ask for a decent one.

I also have on once occasion taken off my shoes at the beginning of a LD and managed to get quite stabilized walking in the grass and such, feels real, and great, and sets me up
for a good 5 minutes.

Half my dreams are <1 minute the other half generally 10-20 minutes its all about stabilization.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Lucid dreaming is about getting many different things to all come together (awareness work, dream recall, sleep schedule, positive attitude, strong intention, etc.). Keep working on them all, individually, and in combination, and when you hit on that mindset and practice that effectively combines them all that works for you, lucidity will grow and grow.

This helps reinforce for me the understanding that even if one or two or more nights don't go so well, that If I continue to steadily practice, to establish and nurture habits that contribute to lucidity, then lucidity will come with increasing frequency. In short, this reminds me that that this is not something to accomplish in a week or month, but a process to engage and skill set to develop over the course of many months/years/decades/lifetimes. Thanks for your helpful encouragement!

Originally Posted by fogelbise

^^Very true. Great info from FryingMan! I am glad to hear that you also feel that the accountability of having a workbook is another positive for maintaining a workbook! Great quote from your dream by the way: "you got a lot of nice stuff, are you a hobo?" Made me chuckle.

I can't think of anything to add FryingMan's great responses. Do you have any other questions so far?

Yes, the accountability piece has definitely helped to break the malaise I was feeling in relation to LD practice. Regarding the quote, I love to recall the exact words spoken by DCs. I always put quotes around them in my DJ. Fascinating stuff.

I have no questions so far, just waiting on the first LD of the course!

Originally Posted by cooleymd

I find that the longer I look at my hands at the beginning the better, but often I don't even think to get them up in time, I often realize I'm dreaming without the need for a RC

In all but a few of my LDs I spontaneously *know* that I am dreaming. I have maybe only 1 time suspected it and verified with an RC. I try to RC even if I feel I know I am dreaming just confirm and help rouse the critical/aware mindset a bit more.

Originally Posted by cooleymd

This is quite true for me, I often (on weekends just before final awakening) become lucid right at the end of a cycle and I doubt anything could stabilize me.

I suspect this is what is happening to me most of the time. I go right from lucidity to awake.

Originally Posted by cooleymd

As for hand rubbing have you ever tried to use it to escape the void. I have done it several times, When the world begins to fade, I rub like mad. Three times recently I was
just too far gone, I had no fingers in one case my real hands were moving in bed before the dream PALMS could connect, in the other two cases it was a losing battle where My dream
hands (PALMS became paralyzed I was lucky if I could move a finger or two. But in the past I just rubbed away on a few occasions and emerged into dreamscapes.

I have had the experience of "feeling" the sensation of the rubbing after the dream had dissolved, it was the last thing to go. I have also had the intent to use hand rubbing to stabilize the dream but too late, my hands have already vanished.

Originally Posted by cooleymd

Half my dreams are <1 minute the other half generally 10-20 minutes its all about stabilization.

Once I get back on the induction horse, this is my priority.

THANKS!!

Progress night of 11/17

Monday was as good as it gets for me without an actual LD.

I woke up in the middle of the night briefly and felt utter discouragement at the fact that there was no dream vividly present in my mind. I briefly formed the intention to recognize and recall dreams and went back to sleep with a heavy heart.

I woke up well before my alarm with no recall, just the typical irritating jumble of confused thoughts. I struggled with it for a bit and found a brief impression which I considered not logging as it was so small. I decided against this and grabbed my phone to type down the brief fragment. Almost as soon as I started typing a very detailed recollection of several dreams scenarios appeared. I logged everything I could remember which equaled a complete dream and two pretty detailed fragments. There was actually another fragment but I could not figure out how to describe it in words so I let it go. I got a good dream quote from my wife "leave me alone, I am reciting the six-syllable mantra" and another from myself "please enjoy!".

During the main dream I was in a museum looking at an exhibit that had artifacts from various english kings dating back to Roman rulers. They were all arranged sequentially. This has reaffirmed my thought that I should get a pen and paper journal as once again some objects appeared that I was unable to describe accurately with words, but could easily sketch. I feel sketching might help develop additional "recall muscles" by tapping into a more visual and less verbal recall. However, sketch worthy elements don't occur every night and pen and paper journaling seems a bit more complex than banging it out on my phone keyboard. Something for me to consider.

In all, a very good night. I don't go in much for dream interpretation, but even non-lucid dreams are generally fascinating. I am looking forward to a day of good daytime training.

Originally Posted by KonchogTashi

I woke up well before my alarm with no recall, just the typical irritating jumble of confused thoughts. I struggled with it for a bit and found a brief impression which I considered not logging as it was so small. I decided against this and grabbed my phone to type down the brief fragment. Almost as soon as I started typing a very detailed recollection of several dreams scenarios appeared. I logged everything I could remember which equaled a complete dream and two pretty detailed fragments. There was actually another fragment but I could not figure out how to describe it in words so I let it go. I got a good dream quote from my wife "leave me alone, I am reciting the six-syllable mantra" and another from myself "please enjoy!".

Awesome! Way to snatch that recall before it was likely gone forever! I have found the same thing. As soon as I start going over what I remember it often snowballs. With practice I have learned to often trace back to transitions earlier in the dream initially forgotten and that were odd in hindsight. The more I do this the more confident I am that I will catch more "odd transition" dream sign DILDs much like other dream signs I have developed and used successfully through recall. And absolutely...in the meantime, the non-lucid dreams are also often fascinating! Keep it up...your enthusiasm is infectious!

Originally Posted by KonchogTashi

This helps reinforce for me the understanding that even if one or two or more nights don't go so well, that If I continue to steadily practice, to establish and nurture habits that contribute to lucidity, then lucidity will come with increasing frequency. In short, this reminds me that that this is not something to accomplish in a week or month, but a process to engage and skill set to develop over the course of many months/years/decades/lifetimes. Thanks for your helpful encouragement!

Bingo! You are certainly welcome, but you're reaching all the right conclusions yourself with minimal nudging, so, well done!

I'm currently reading "Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation In Everyday Life" and it's really great, I highly recommend it. The emphasis is being mindful of and completely content with where you are, right now, not stuck living in discontent over past events or looking forwards to the future for happiness, at the expense of the present moment (if only I could lucid dream every night, I'd be happy....). The point is not to ignore the past/future, but not to let them rule your life.

On the recall disappointment: I completely understand, but it's best not to associate negative emotions with dreaming in any way, even if the emotion is about not getting the recall you'd like. It's great that you persevered and came up with some dreams!

How much time do you estimate that you spent/spend generally on recall? I sometimes will spend even 30 minutes casting my mind back for memories, if I feel that there is something more there to be found. It's something that comes with time and experience, to get a feel for how long to do it before heading back to sleep. Generally I do not spend that long, but I do spend more than just a moment -- usually several minutes at least. If nothing comes, try asking yourself (even quietly vocalizing sometimes), "What was I just dreaming about?". If you do this every time you reach for recall you're setting up a powerful association that can be very helpful in triggering dream memories.

Even if you get no recall, be happy that you've noticed a waking, as that means chance to grab some awareness as you head back to sleep which increases the chances for lucidity.

You're in a great position of knowing already that you can lucid dream. Now it's just a matter of attention to the practice: do the daytime (awareness), do the nighttime (recall, intention, WBTB), and be patient. Do the best as you can to maximize the conditions profitable to lucid dreaming and to have them coincide on any given night.

Really love your non-lucid dreams, since you'll most likely have a ton more of them. Look forward to and work for the lucids, but really enjoy those non-lucids. Be thankful for any recall at all, and set intention that you want to recall even more: longer, more detailed, more aware, and lucid.

I was just in a non-lucid where I saw my dead relative again, but no trigger
to bad too because that huge bag of buttermint candy (I don't think they make the specific kind anymore)
was awesome, I think maybe I'll have to use candy to help maintain lucidity sometime, even in
the void it would be worth staying there a long time eating those things

I should have tried to read the dream label probably would have said
100% pure sugar / NO carbs / 100% unnatural

Progress night of 11/18

Good day followed by a good night. I felt very positively about my day of practice. I was able to perform many state checks and make many aspirations to recognize the dream state. Before going to sleep I repeatedly formed the aspiration to recognize the dream state and recall my dreams. I drank a glass of water to insure that I would wake in the middle of the night. Lights out at 10:15 and alarm set for 5:50. In short, I feel that considering limitations on sleep time everything was pretty much ideal.

I woke up in the middle of the night, I did not check the time but it was probably 2:30 or 3:00. I stayed up for maybe 5 minutes and practiced MILD as I fell back to sleep. Below is the result taken from my DJ:

Lucid/WBTB : out of the blackness a tan 1970s Lincoln continental rolls. With it the sidewalk, grass, and street come into focus. I look at the car and start to admire it, but quickly I realize I am dreaming. I am a little startled by this and can't remember/decide what to do. Then I think "it doesn't matter what I do because it's dream." I jump on to the car hood and with this I remember to try to stabilize. I rub my hands together and say " this dream is stable and vividly clear." I repeat this once and then sing it again, continuing to rub my hands I can feel the "friction". At this point the dream starts to fade. I decide to try spinning to prolong it , and can feel the "motion", but nothing emerges from the blackness.

I forgot to do a state test. This is a pretty typical of my lucids. Very short, perhaps 50 seconds to a minute. This one was probably a little less vivid than some others. I feel like this was a lucid "dreamlet", close to WILD. I have noticed that when I am vigilant during the transition to sleep I catch myself involved in very short dreams that dissolve immediately upon recognition. I have noticed that short WBTB combined with MILD produces pretty good results with me. I have yet to have a really long, powerful LD, but am confident it will come with continued training.

Following this I had some very good recall of two distinct dreams and a fragment. Neither were typically long so I feel like I missed some content, but I am very happy with the recall subsequent to the lucid.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Bingo! You are certainly welcome, but you're reaching all the right conclusions yourself with minimal nudging, so, well done!

I'm currently reading "Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation In Everyday Life" and it's really great, I highly recommend it. The emphasis is being mindful of and completely content with where you are, right now, not stuck living in discontent over past events or looking forwards to the future for happiness, at the expense of the present moment (if only I could lucid dream every night, I'd be happy....). The point is not to ignore the past/future, but not to let them rule your life.

I agree mindfulness has profound benefits that apply to the full spectrum of our experience. I am a longtime buddhist practioner and have a lot of experience with mindfulness meditation. I once sat a 30 day long retreat with 8 hours of formal mindfulness meditation per day. I had powerful, vivid dream during this retreat. I still practice meditation daily, but it is now more connected with visualization and less overtly formal mindfulness training, but really any meditation requires sustained mindfulness or one will loose the object of one's focus.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

On the recall disappointment: I completely understand, but it's best not to associate negative emotions with dreaming in any way, even if the emotion is about not getting the recall you'd like. It's great that you persevered and came up with some dreams!

I need to remember this!!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

How much time do you estimate that you spent/spend generally on recall? I sometimes will spend even 30 minutes casting my mind back for memories, if I feel that there is something more there to be found. It's something that comes with time and experience, to get a feel for how long to do it before heading back to sleep. Generally I do not spend that long, but I do spend more than just a moment -- usually several minutes at least. If nothing comes, try asking yourself (even quietly vocalizing sometimes), "What was I just dreaming about?". If you do this every time you reach for recall you're setting up a powerful association that can be very helpful in triggering dream memories.

Even if you get no recall, be happy that you've noticed a waking, as that means chance to grab some awareness as you head back to sleep which increases the chances for lucidity.

I would say i spend between 10 and 15 minutes on recall in the morning. If the dreams are particularly interesting I will give it another 5 minutes. In the middle of the night if something is not right there then I don't give it any more time. I am likely to wake up fully and then ruin the rest of my night of sleep. I have learned to tread lightly during mid-night wakings If I value having a restful night. I also try to be mindful of sleep cycles and attempt to have my alarm go off at the end of one whenever possible. Sometimes this is difficult as it will push wake up time back into the 4:00 hour or forward past 6:00, neither of those options are acceptable.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

You're in a great position of knowing already that you can lucid dream. Now it's just a matter of attention to the practice: do the daytime (awareness), do the nighttime (recall, intention, WBTB), and be patient. Do the best as you can to maximize the conditions profitable to lucid dreaming and to have them coincide on any given night.

Really love your non-lucid dreams, since you'll most likely have a ton more of them. Look forward to and work for the lucids, but really enjoy those non-lucids. Be thankful for any recall at all, and set intention that you want to recall even more: longer, more detailed, more aware, and lucid.

This is excellent advice and reinforces my enjoyment of non-lucids. Last night's non-lucid dreams were actually more interesting than the lucid!

^^ Wow, congratulations on the lucid! For length/stability, that comes in time. On time spent on recall, 10 to 15 minutes in the morning is great. I concur on the middle of the night recall -- it does tend to wake me up, too, if I'm not careful. But if the dreams are really noteworthy I will record. For my first 3 months of practice I was recording every waking and I wracked up a lot of recall, which was very enjoyable, but I did get a tad burned out and let drop the intention to wake up after every dream drop. But know that that possibility is there if you need it for a boost.

The main thing is to be in touch with your wakings and back-to-sleeps, and to do what works for you. It seems you've found what works. You might experiment quickly making a list of mental keywords of the dreams you do recall during those middle-of-the-night wakings, and see if you can salvage any of those memories in the morning. I find that sometimes I successfully can build a growing list of recall all through the night with every waking that (mostly) survives until morning. It's certainly not 100%, but if you practice it, you can get better at it.

I might suggest once in a while stepping outside your comfort zone and spending a bit more time on middle-of-thet night recall, at least when you have a chance to sleep in in the morning. Believe me, I've experienced more than my fair share of underslept nights when I couldn't get back to sleep, and know how frustrating those are. But sometimes you need to push a bit to extend your boundaries.

Lucidity is awesome, there is no doubt about that, being *there* and aware in your dreams is amazing. But non-lucids I think are just more fun and interesting and varied. Excellent recall of a long, vivid non-lucid (Sensei and I call these "epics") is a tremendous joy.

I'd say you've got all your ducks in a row! Now just lather, rinse, repeat!

Edit: one more note about not knowing what to do in the lucid. Here's where daytime practice of the "becoming lucid ritual" helps, and frequent renewal of the memory of set of tasks you want to perform, so you don't end up just standing there lucid saying "...uh....!". Those mini-tasks also help to keep you in the dream longer.

I completely concur with FryingMan on practicing what you will do (in your next lucid) during the day...it can definitely help you remember how you want to proceed: doing state tests, tasks, stabilization (though try not to think of it as stabilization during the dream...try to think of it as something you just do when you become lucid...). As a bonus, I think that this particular practice during the day also edges you closer to lucidity both day and night.

Originally Posted by KonchogTashi

I forgot to do a state test. This is a pretty typical of my lucids. Very short, perhaps 50 seconds to a minute. This one was probably a little less vivid than some others. I feel like this was a lucid "dreamlet", close to WILD. I have noticed that when I am vigilant during the transition to sleep I catch myself involved in very short dreams that dissolve immediately upon recognition. I have noticed that short WBTB combined with MILD produces pretty good results with me. I have yet to have a really long, powerful LD, but am confident it will come with continued training.

Congratulations on your lucid dream! Although the definition of dreamlet is likely debatable, I would say your later description of "very short dreams that dissolve immediately upon recognition" are dreamlets but since you interacted with this one and got on the hood of the car and felt your dream hands, I believe you were not just experiencing a "dreamlet" but you were in an actual dream and lucid...so great work!!

Progress update night of 11/19/14

Had a day of decent practice. During the day I contemplate the dream-like nature of experience followed by state tests by hand-check and/or nose pinch. I was able to do this between 15 and 20 times. I also logged at least 5 "general awareness checks" where I mentally review my last fifteen or twenty minutes, how I arrived at my current location, etc.

I went to sleep at 10:00 and drank a glass of water to insure waking during the night. I fell asleep cultivating the intention to recognize the dream state and recall my dreams. I woke in the middle of the night, but never really got my awareness bright and awake, I clumsily and foggily formed the intention to recognize my dreams as I fell back asleep. I woke in the morning with decent recall. I logged 3 pretty full fragments/dreams. I feel positively about this. I know my next LD will come soon and it will be vivid and long lasting!

A question: What is typically considered "a dream" vs. "a fragment" I typically consider it a fragment if it is just once scene, even if the recall of that scene is detailed and rich. I consider it a dream if there is more continuity, a scene change or more complex development of "plot." What is the general consensus on this?

Thanks!!

Originally Posted by KonchogTashi

A question: What is typically considered "a dream" vs. "a fragment" I typically consider it a fragment if it is just once scene, even if the recall of that scene is detailed and rich. I consider it a dream if there is more continuity, a scene change or more complex development of "plot." What is the general consensus on this?

Thanks!!

Sounds like a good day of practice! Recalling dreams is such a joy. I was a bit disappointed at my night at first, but then when I wrote it all out in detail I decided it was in fact quite a nice set of dreams with a bit of semi-lucidity at the end. So in the end I was quite happy with my night, it's best to be positive!

Dream vs. scene vs. fragment is highly subjective. I personally consider "a dream" a set of scenes ("scene" being a solid memory of a location with a set of actors) that either share plot, or where I remember the transitions, or where I just "know" they were all part of the same dream. Some "dreams" can be single-scene and very short.

I consider a fragment a vague, short, hazy memory, just a location and theme lasting basically no time at all, barely on the edge of remembering it at all. But that may be just me.

But in the end it doesn't matter too much unless you're participating in the DV competitions where "a dream" is awarded one point and "a fragment" is awarded half a point, and even then it's more or less up to the dreamer to count something as a dream or a fragment.