Thread: Dionisos' Workbook

Originally Posted by Dionisos

A little over a week ago I had a dream in which I was sitting in front of my pc text chatting with a friend while holding my keyboard in a pointlessly complicated way sideways. While doing that I questioned wether I was dreaming, but than I said to myself "nah as if" and went on with typing.

Try to remember to do multiple RCs any time you notice anything odd or any time something seems dreamlike or reminds you of a dream, even if you are sure you are awake. This dream is a good example of the idea that "Any moment could be a dream!"

Also of note that could be worth mentioning is that I bought virtual reality goggles (HTC VIVE) a few days ago and I've read several times that it supposedly helps with lucid dreaming and a lucid dreaming mindset though I cant speak from experience yet since I only used them for a few days yet. I did implement them into my dreams already though.

I'm jealous! I think VIVE is the best consumer VR out there at the moment having tried VIVE, Occulus Rift, Playstation VR, VR Gear and Google Cardboard (<in order of quality). I bet it could be helpful to say out loud "I am dreaming" when in some of these VR experiences! You could then simulate something proving that you are indeed dreaming and then going over what goals you want to achieve in your LD and how much fun you are about to have.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Try to remember to do multiple RCs any time you notice anything odd or any time something seems dreamlike or reminds you of a dream, even if you are sure you are awake. This dream is a good example of the idea that "Any moment could be a dream!"

I already had a few moments where it felt like something strange happened and I do RCs (and I luckily always do several RCs at once (like 3 or 4 minimum)) though in that dream I didnt think "could this be a dream?" because anything seemed strange, rather it was a thought that randomly poppep up and I then dismissed it immediately. I will just have to hammer in that every single time I get the idea of something beeing a dream or doing a reality check that I actually do them. Sometimes I didnt because I just did RCs like 10 minutes earlier but this may be the reason for me dismissing it in said dream.

I'm jealous! I think VIVE is the best consumer VR out there at the moment having tried VIVE, Occulus Rift, Playstation VR, VR Gear and Google Cardboard (<in order of quality).

I see that you know your stuff! I also agree that the VIVE is probably the best one out there at the moment.

I bet it could be helpful to say out loud "I am dreaming" when in some of these VR experiences! You could then simulate something proving that you are indeed dreaming and then going over what goals you want to achieve in your LD and how much fun you are about to have.

That sounds like a wonderful idea to get a LD thought to "stick" into the night! I will try that today!
I also believe that VR could have other great benefits relating to dream control. It gives the user a sense of power in the sense that you can summon objects at will, changing the scenery when I want to and other "powers" that you could use effectively in a dream.

Also I always had "trouble" with the reality check of putting your hand through a wall or another physical object, because I wasnt sure how I would simulate that feeling or look of pushing my hand through solid matter. In VR you can (in many games) simply move into walls with your entire body by moving physically and thus you can just "phase" your hand into the wall with nothing stopping it. Implementing this visually into my RC gives me a perfect template of what I would want to achieve if it where a dream.

Good point about VR and dream control! It basically gives you a good tool to update your schema.

On the dream thought dream, I believe member and lucid dreaming sage Sensei suggests that anytime you think anything to do with "dream" you should assume you are dreaming…like you said, it may be something that you have to hammer in. At my stage of lucid dreaming I will get thoughts like this and they most often instantly bring me fully lucid without an RC, where almost all of the other times it gets me to do an RC before becoming fully lucid. You can do this too with some more work and experience.

The past few days I've been thinking about what to write in my workbook since nothing spectacular happened, so I guess I'll just state that I'm still alive and have not abandoned my quest for lucid dreams.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

On the dream thought dream, I believe member and lucid dreaming sage Sensei suggests that anytime you think anything to do with "dream" you should assume you are dreaming…like you said, it may be something that you have to hammer in. At my stage of lucid dreaming I will get thoughts like this and they most often instantly bring me fully lucid without an RC, where almost all of the other times it gets me to do an RC before becoming fully lucid. You can do this too with some more work and experience.

On that note I would like to ask: that also includes anything where just the word dream pops up somewhere, right? For example when a character in a book or video game (i usually dont watch movies or tv) is dreaming or talks about dreaming in any way.

Originally Posted by Dionisos

On that note I would like to ask: that also includes anything where just the word dream pops up somewhere, right? For example when a character in a book or video game (i usually dont watch movies or tv) is dreaming or talks about dreaming in any way.

Yes, I would recommend that. Remember to truly question whether it could be a dream as best as you can! Do you have any other challenges with lucid dreaming that you want to go over?

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Yes, I would recommend that. Remember to truly question whether it could be a dream as best as you can!

I think I have made a significant improvement to the quality of reality checks in the past few days! It's almost like I wasnt even properly questioning reality before (from my point of view) and I feel that I am going to have success again soon! The dreams I had the past few night also where very vivid and fairly long.

Do you have any other challenges with lucid dreaming that you want to go over?

One thing I never really did at all is get a broad set of dream signs. Reason for that is that I cant think of anything that I dream of often enough which isnt a very broad concept (like beeing in a game). Things just dont happen consistently enough to warrant making them a dream sign.
An idea I had is maybe to analyze my thought patterns and feelings in dreams (since I do behave like a slightly different person from time to time) and try to establish specific thoughts as dream signs (though I cant think of a very good example at this time).

Originally Posted by Dionisos

I think I have made a significant improvement to the quality of reality checks in the past few days! It's almost like I wasnt even properly questioning reality before (from my point of view) and I feel that I am going to have success again soon! The dreams I had the past few night also where very vivid and fairly long.

Very nice! Celebrate those very vivid and fairly long dreams - as they can be important and enjoyable too. Appreciating the success can give you additional fuel for your practices.

One thing I never really did at all is get a broad set of dream signs. Reason for that is that I cant think of anything that I dream of often enough which isnt a very broad concept (like beeing in a game). Things just dont happen consistently enough to warrant making them a dream sign.
An idea I had is maybe to analyze my thought patterns and feelings in dreams (since I do behave like a slightly different person from time to time) and try to establish specific thoughts as dream signs (though I cant think of a very good example at this time).

Dream sign recognition seems to be more of a supporting tool rather than a primary tool. My awareness needs to be good to catch most dream signs but I have developed one similar to your idea of a thought based one that seems like it can be triggered even with lower levels of awareness (but still some awareness). I call it my boldness dream sign. Usually boldness with a hot DC, but sometimes other types of boldness. I am wondering if it was activated for me through the mechanism of neural plasticity…through my daytime practices of imagining what I would do if I were lucid right now (in this mall, in this restaurant, in whatever setting). When the exercise heightens your excitement level and awareness, I think it may help create those new neural connections to suggest boldness=dream.

Hey I'm sorry for (again) not writing in this workbook for so long! Though be assured that I didn't forget about it! (In fact I think about it every single day)
It's just that I dont know what meaningful thing I could write down since nothing really happened.

Though I shoudl still make an effort to write in here as often as possible since mentally pushing back in time my workbook might negatively affect my dreams as well (and I'm mentally blocking myself from Lucid dreaming anyway so no need to make it even more complicated).
I still do remember at least one dream every single night so thats something at least.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

My awareness needs to be good to catch most dream signs but I have developed one similar to your idea of a thought based one that seems like it can be triggered even with lower levels of awareness (but still some awareness). I call it my boldness dream sign.

Yeah this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about as I remember sometimes beeing very confident in actions that are quite dangerous and I have never done before. Also recently I had a few dreams in which I "knew" information and had memorys about things in my dream which doesnt exist in real life and I can't remember dreaming about before. This kind of stuff doesnt happen particularly often though and I'm not sure how I would turn that into a dream sign since that seems to require a lot of lucidity to notice.

Today I also had a pretty interesting dream that I would like to share. This kind of stuff happened before but not on this scale and not for such a long dream.
I was in some kind of fantasy world with 2 to 3 other people (can't remember their faces though). While we are traveling over some kind of bridge I suddenly "notice" that I am dreaming, though I dont do any reality checks or question my surroundings. For all intents and purposes I believe that I was dreaming that I knew that I was dreaming, which is something I already had a few times (and you feel cheated when you wake up). In this dream though I was able to summon things and change my surrounding. While I wanted to show one of my companions the microcosmos of a flower by shifting the world around us so that we are much smaller (I have no idea why I would do that). It didnt work and I accidentaly teleported us to some other place and we wanted to return. We were in some kind of half-wasteland next to a river and were running towards a bridge to pass said river. Suddenly hostile creatures/people (I forgot what exactly) emerged from the left and started chasing us. I knew that there was no way I could protect myself and my dream buddy so I summoned a futuristic looking soldier on the bridge to cover our retreat whom I could command and was giving orders by hand movements. The dream soon ended with us encountering 2 giant monsters who we had to fight but that didnt end up happening.

Noteworthy (for me at least) is that while in the later parts of the dream I didnt think about "this is a dream" anymore though I could still summon entities without much of a problem. Though things that I would have rather done instead of following the supid plot of this dream did never cross my mind at all and as I said I never did any reality checks so I dont think this was a real lucid dream at all sadly.

Originally Posted by Dionisos

Yeah this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about as I remember sometimes beeing very confident in actions that are quite dangerous and I have never done before. Also recently I had a few dreams in which I "knew" information and had memorys about things in my dream which doesnt exist in real life and I can't remember dreaming about before. This kind of stuff doesnt happen particularly often though and I'm not sure how I would turn that into a dream sign since that seems to require a lot of lucidity to notice.

The confidence one could be worked with and sounds similar to my boldness dream sign. I think the boldness dream sign became more powerful for me through day practices where I would be out in public and imagine being bold in that moment: "If I were dreaming right now, I would…" or "I am dreaming" and then imagining what I would do next. When I would feel the boldness coming on in a dream I would often think "wait a minute, this is a dream!" But because of how bad it could be if I was wrong, many times I would perform an RC to be doubly sure that I am in fact dreaming.

Today I also had a pretty interesting dream that I would like to share.

That sounds like an awesome dream, whatever kind of dream it was. It sounded quite memorable!

Finally I have some worthwile progress to talk about! :p

Yesterday I had two(2) lucid dreams right after the other! I simply noticed that something wasnt right and did RCs. It should be noted that they were relatively short though, since they occured at the very end of my sleep cycle where I was even sleeping in longer than normal so I wasnt very tired anymore. This time I'm also absolutely sure that they were real lucid dreams and not me dreaming to have a LD, since I did my reality checks, I knew what I roughly wanted to do and I had full control of myself.
Sadly since both dreams weren't very long and I don't have experience in dream stabilization I spend the most time with doing RCs, telling myself I was dreaming and simply trying not to wake up (though I did change location once by imagining a place behind my bathroom door which worked out fairly well).

So in future I will have to work on dream stabilization I would say. I sadly didn't remember to do some of the things I know about stabilizing a dream. Another issue that is surely connected is the fact that I can't see all that much in the lucid dreams I've had. Its all very foggy and like the static of an old tv is preventing me from seeing clearly.

Also every time I had a LD after a fairly short ammount of time I suddenly oppened my eyes in real life and was awake. While that obviously happens at some point, due to the fact that it happens so quickly every time is it possible that I jinx it by focussing so hard on not wanting to wake up that I thereby focus too much on my real body lying in bed? It would probably better to focus on the world around me so I dont think much about my real body (but dont forget I'm dreaming!). That would also probably help make the dream more vivid.

Congratulations on the double hit Dionisos!

Originally Posted by Dionisos

Sadly since both dreams weren't very long and I don't have experience in dream stabilization I spend the most time with doing RCs, telling myself I was dreaming and simply trying not to wake up...

It will get easier with time but for now try to eliminate the thoughts of "trying not to wake up" and instead try focus on the dream like you mention later. Sure do some brief stabilization, but more automatically like something you do every time without thinking too much about why you are doing it. For many people, just thinking about not waking up is enough to push them in the direction of waking up.

...(though I did change location once by imagining a place behind my bathroom door which worked out fairly well).

Great job!

Another issue that is surely connected is the fact that I can't see all that much in the lucid dreams I've had. Its all very foggy and like the static of an old tv is preventing me from seeing clearly.

Here's a good one to use for these situations: just say out loud or think "wow look at how that is clearing up right before my eyes!" Or you can go the more forceful route of shouting out or thinking "Clarity Now!" or similar.

While that obviously happens at some point, due to the fact that it happens so quickly every time is it possible that I jinx it by focussing so hard on not wanting to wake up that I thereby focus too much on my real body lying in bed? It would probably better to focus on the world around me so I dont think much about my real body (but dont forget I'm dreaming!). That would also probably help make the dream more vivid.

^Yes, lots of good thoughts there. Just don't worry about jinxing yourself and go forward with an "I got this" nonchalant attitude. It's true that sometimes it's just a matter of coming to the end of REM, but know that it won't always be that way and you can have much longer lucid dreams with practice.

You can update you LD count from 0.5 if you want.

Congratulations once again!

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Congratulations on the double hit Dionisos!

Thanks

You can update you LD count from 0.5 if you want.

Done!

It will get easier with time but for now try to eliminate the thoughts of "trying not to wake up" and instead try focus on the dream like you mention later. [...] ^Yes, lots of good thoughts there. Just don't worry about jinxing yourself and go forward with an "I got this" nonchalant attitude. It's true that sometimes it's just a matter of coming to the end of REM, but know that it won't always be that way and you can have much longer lucid dreams with practice.

I'm glad to hear that my thoughts seem to be correct! I thought about this a couple of times but I assume I will have to try a few more times before I get into the right mindset inside a dream. Thanks for the advice!

Here's a good one to use for these situations: just say out loud or think "wow look at how that is clearing up right before my eyes!" Or you can go the more forceful route of shouting out or thinking "Clarity Now!" or similar.

I've read and heard about that a couple of times and it sounds like a great technique which I definitely want to use. Sadly so far I never remembered to actually try it inside a dream but that day will surely come!.


Tonight I had some of the most bizarre dreams I can remember and in one of them something interesting happened that I already wrote about once before in my journal, so I will share that one real quick:
I was in the garden of my grandma which was bigger than normal and much more overgrown. One of the dreamcharacters had a companion and best friend which happened to be a wild boar. That wild boar sadly died and the dream character was devastated because of the loss. So I and another DC decided to revive the boar with weird vodoo magic or something. After some preparations the only thing left to do was to touch the bones of the boar with its own blood which we had handy for some reason. Yet there was only a slight problem, since in fact the wild boar was a nautical wild boar and lived under water! So its bones where under water as well. In the garden of my grandma you can find a small pond with fish in them. In the dream however the pond was the entryway into a huge underwater area as if the whole city was build right above water. I took some of the blood (which had a consistency like jelly) and began to dive down to find the bones. Now we are at the point where the interesting part happened. At first I was holding my breath and I believe that I was actually holding my breath in real life too. After some time I couldnt hold my breath anymore and I breathed in which turned out to not be a problem at all even though I was in the water. Then I thought inside my head: "I should't hold my breath while I'm dreaming or it might make me wake up because my body thinks its in danger." Then the dream continued with me mostly diving around.

In this dream I once again rationalized something with the fact that I was dreaming, without me knowing that I was dreaming, doing any reality checks or giving it another thought throughout the whole dream. I didnt even question anything in the dream at all.

Originally Posted by Dionisos

Thanks



Done!



I'm glad to hear that my thoughts seem to be correct! I thought about this a couple of times but I assume I will have to try a few more times before I get into the right mindset inside a dream. Thanks for the advice!



I've read and heard about that a couple of times and it sounds like a great technique which I definitely want to use. Sadly so far I never remembered to actually try it inside a dream but that day will surely come!.


Tonight I had some of the most bizarre dreams I can remember and in one of them something interesting happened that I already wrote about once before in my journal, so I will share that one real quick:
I was in the garden of my grandma which was bigger than normal and much more overgrown. One of the dreamcharacters had a companion and best friend which happened to be a wild boar. That wild boar sadly died and the dream character was devastated because of the loss. So I and another DC decided to revive the boar with weird vodoo magic or something. After some preparations the only thing left to do was to touch the bones of the boar with its own blood which we had handy for some reason. Yet there was only a slight problem, since in fact the wild boar was a nautical wild boar and lived under water! So its bones where under water as well. In the garden of my grandma you can find a small pond with fish in them. In the dream however the pond was the entryway into a huge underwater area as if the whole city was build right above water. I took some of the blood (which had a consistency like jelly) and began to dive down to find the bones. Now we are at the point where the interesting part happened. At first I was holding my breath and I believe that I was actually holding my breath in real life too. After some time I couldnt hold my breath anymore and I breathed in which turned out to not be a problem at all even though I was in the water. Then I thought inside my head: "I should't hold my breath while I'm dreaming or it might make me wake up because my body thinks its in danger." Then the dream continued with me mostly diving around.

In this dream I once again rationalized something with the fact that I was dreaming, without me knowing that I was dreaming, doing any reality checks or giving it another thought throughout the whole dream. I didnt even question anything in the dream at all.

Dreams often get very weird. But dreams can also send messages. They are symbols from your brain.

Interesting dreams Dionisos! I had a dream about a pig under water a while back.

As far as thinking about dreaming in the dream but not really knowing that you are dreaming, that seems to be a fairly common sign that you have a lucid dream coming to you soon…in the coming days, if you keep up your efforts. A little more heightened awareness in that dream would have likely nudged you over the hump to lucidity. Things like daytime awareness work, pre-bed intention setting, WBTBs or mini-WBTBs help to provide heightened awareness.

You got this!