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    Thread: Dream Control Limitations

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      Member Alter's Avatar
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      Dream Control Limitations

      Are there any limits to what you can do in a dream regardless of how good your level of control is? If so what are they?

      For me the only limitations I can think of off the top of my head are things like my brain can only process so much information at one time before being overloaded. For example I can split myself into multiple bodies which are each capable of perceiving (hearing, tasting, feeling, seeing, ect) the dream world around them separately. I can make more and more of these splits and I can work on increasing the number of splits I can maintain at one time yet it seems like my brain can only process so much at one time and eventually after splitting myself so much I reach a point where things will start to become fuzzy and lose detail.

      Another thing which I can't really do in dreams involves omniscience:
      inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
      total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known

      Even though in my dreams it is possible for me to have omnipresence and near omnipotence.. omniscience seems impossible for me to obtain.

      If you can think of any tasks which would be completely impossible(or can explain how these limitations can be overcome) let me know.
      1. Having supreme knowledge about everything. You may be able to delude yourself into thinking that you know every thing but it is possible to actually know everything?
      2. Focusing on an infinite number of things at the same time. You can focus on many things at the same time but it seems that EVENTUALLY at some point you will reach a limit to how many things you can keep your focus on simultaneously.
      3. Remaining in a lucid dream forever. I have had dreams which have seemed to last for months while only a single night passed in the real world. While this could possibly be extended to years using my dream extending techniques I don't see how it would be possible to remain in the dream world indefinitely.
      Last edited by Alter; 12-18-2010 at 09:24 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
      3. Remaining in a lucid dream forever. I have had dreams which have seemed to last for months while only a single night passed in the real world. While this could possibly be extended to years using my dream extending techniques I don't see how it would be possible to remain in the dream world indefinitely.
      All but this are impossible. While this would be VERY hard and require some very advanced technology, it's actually possible, it's just far out of our reach right now. At least, it's out of reach in a safety sense. You can keep giving people nutrients, water, and strong sedatives, but everybody knows this probably isn't very healthy. Interesting question, though. Maybe you could start a "List of Things You Can't Do in a LD" thread.

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      You simply can't do anything that in any way affects the outside, anything else without the word "Infinate" in it could be done, maybe not by anyone in the world, but it would be possible

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      Quote Originally Posted by Snowboy View Post
      Maybe you could start a "List of Things You Can't Do in a LD" thread.
      Thats basically what I intended for this thread to be lulz.


      Quote Originally Posted by Soulnote View Post
      You simply can't do anything that in any way affects the outside, anything else without the word "Infinate" in it could be done, maybe not by anyone in the world, but it would be possible
      It is possible to communicate with the outside world through controlled eye movements though.
      Last edited by Alter; 12-21-2010 at 04:07 AM.

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      I would say there is probably a limit to how fast you can move your eyes, since your dream vision is linked with your physical eyeballs in REM sleep. There is also probably a limit to how fast or slow you can breathe without waking yourself up.

      I'm going to take the opposite stance on being able to affect the real world from within a dream. I believe that through some sort of butterfly effect, we could change the events of the future from within our dreams. The butterfly effect is pretty well-known, and if you decided to try to make a certain event occur in the future from within a dream, my opinion is that you could maybe make it happen. This is pure speculation, nothing more.

      The subconscious is easily accessible from within our dreams, so it is possible that you could program it to affect your waking actions to make a certain event occur later during your waking life. If it were possible to change the outside world from within your dreams, this would probably be the means through which such an action would operate. Of course, such changes would not be able to take effect until your subconscious had enough time to indirectly operate through your waking actions, so it's debatable whether this would be considered affecting the outside world 'from within your dreams'.

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      To Mindgames, Like I said, the moving your eyes and breathing are both linked to the real world

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      Quote Originally Posted by Snowboy View Post
      All but this are impossible. While this would be VERY hard and require some very advanced technology, it's actually possible, it's just far out of our reach right now. At least, it's out of reach in a safety sense. You can keep giving people nutrients, water, and strong sedatives, but everybody knows this probably isn't very healthy. Interesting question, though. Maybe you could start a "List of Things You Can't Do in a LD" thread.
      Wouldn't it be possible to dilate time in a lucid as to continue forever?
      Not saying it wouldn't be easy, not saying it's possible, but I've heard of 2 year time dilation. I've even experienced it on a minute scale.
      So in theory, with enough practice and preparation, wouldn't it be possible?
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      I don't believe in any dream control limitations except for time dilation.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Soulnote View Post
      To Mindgames, Like I said, the moving your eyes and breathing are both linked to the real world
      Oh sorry Soulnote, I didn't realize you had already said that. Could you point out to me where you stated that? Thanks.

      Screems, I don't think it would be possible to dilate a dream forever. Even extending a dream to 2 years was unstable for the person who claimed to have done it. To extend a dream infinitely long would require an infinite amount of brain power. Now, I do believe that dreams can be extended to very long amounts of perceptual time, but nothing has been proven, so even that is wishful thinking.

      Puffin, do you mind explaining why time dilation is the only thing you believe is impossible? Have you tried it before? Just curious. Furthermore, have you read the accounts of people who have used salvia and magic mushrooms? Time as perceived to them seems to last much, much longer because of the effects of the drug. Who's to say dreaming is necessarily any different? We can already twist our realities inside dreams in very weird ways that would never be possible in the real world; dream-time dilation just hasn't really been explored enough to definitively say that it isn't possible. That's my opinion.
      Last edited by MindGames; 12-22-2010 at 02:23 AM. Reason: Re-wording

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      Quote Originally Posted by Puffin View Post
      I don't believe in any dream control limitations except for time dilation.
      Bullshit. Try to do anything listed here and I GUARANTEE that you will fail.

      Another one I would like to add is omnipotence.

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      Let's play. MindGames's Avatar
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      Yes, it would be interesting if the stone paradox could be overcome inside of a dream. Omnipotence is a member of the infinity club; infinite power.

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      Infinite anything cannot be perceived nor conceived by the human mind. Period.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MindGames View Post
      OScreems, I don't think it would be possible to dilate a dream forever. Even extending a dream to 2 years was unstable for the person who claimed to have done it. To extend a dream infinitely long would require an infinite amount of brain power. Now, I do believe that dreams can be extended to very long amounts of perceptual time, but nothing has been proven, so even that is wishful thinking.

      Puffin, do you mind explaining why time dilation is the only thing you believe is impossible? Have you tried it before? Just curious. Furthermore, have you read the accounts of people who have used salvia and magic mushrooms? Time as perceived to them seems to last much, much longer because of the effects of the drug. Who's to say dreaming is necessarily any different? We can already twist our realities inside dreams in very weird ways that would never be possible in the real world; dream-time dilation just hasn't really been explored enough to definitively say that it isn't possible. That's my opinion.
      OK, just saw this post.

      @First Comment: I agree, but I think it could be possible with future technology.

      @Second Comment: That's more fact than opinion. I don't even see any opinion in there. I agree with what you say, though. Time dilation should definitely be looked into, especially with Skully's case (he claims to dream for two years in a several-hour dream).

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      I think that we might be able to prolong our dreams to insanely long amounts of time if it was really thoroughly researched, but infinity can never be reached. 23984723947234982734987234 years, however, could possibly be reached, and being infinitely minute in comparison to infinity itself, even that seems awfully too long to even want to experience, let alone scientifically achieve.

      Oh, and in response to the 'opinion' part of my post, I was referring to the statement just before that sentence:
      Quote Originally Posted by MindGames View Post
      ... dream-time dilation just hasn't really been explored enough to definitively say that it isn't possible. That's my opinion.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MindGames View Post
      I think that we might be able to prolong our dreams to insanely long amounts of time if it was really thoroughly researched, but infinity can never be reached. 23984723947234982734987234 years, however, could possibly be reached, and being infinitely minute in comparison to infinity itself, even that seems awfully too long to even want to experience, let alone scientifically achieve.
      You do have a point... I had forgotten about that. Still, after 23984723947234982734987234 (copy/paste ) years, dreams would get pretty old. Who knows, you may even start to believe it is reality after so long! But in a LD for a week or two...

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      Heh, very tempting indeed.

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      It is definitely possible to extend the length of your dreams with time dilation and other techniques. I spent at least a year of my life having a series LD in which it felt like each night I was dreaming for months at a time. Those months added up fast and it started feeling like I was spending much more time dreaming than awake. After a while I started losing touch with reality.. even when I was awake I would often find myself daydreaming.

      I still extend my dreams but I spend more time in the real world now than I used to.

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      I want to do some research on time dilation it sounds quite intriguing... why have multiple LDs every night when you can just have one that lasts a month? anyways...

      If you perceive Omniscience as somthing attainable in your dream, like you beleive you know everything in your dream, since the dream is a creation of your own mind I see it to be possible. You can control everything that exists technically, or your own mind created everything that is, so simply by beleiving your omniscient should cause a certain degree of it.

      but maybe this is a little too deep and i should try it first
      "Do, or do not. There is no try." ~Yoda

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
      It is definitely possible to extend the length of your dreams with time dilation and other techniques. I spent at least a year of my life having a series LD in which it felt like each night I was dreaming for months at a time. Those months added up fast and it started feeling like I was spending much more time dreaming than awake. After a while I started losing touch with reality.. even when I was awake I would often find myself daydreaming.

      I still extend my dreams but I spend more time in the real world now than I used to.
      I can slightly dilate too, but too lose track of reality...ouch

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      Quote Originally Posted by DarthDallas View Post
      I want to do some research on time dilation it sounds quite intriguing... why have multiple LDs every night when you can just have one that lasts a month? anyways...

      If you perceive Omniscience as somthing attainable in your dream, like you beleive you know everything in your dream, since the dream is a creation of your own mind I see it to be possible. You can control everything that exists technically, or your own mind created everything that is, so simply by beleiving your omniscient should cause a certain degree of it.

      but maybe this is a little too deep and i should try it first
      If anyone thinks they can be omniscient in a dream and not just delude themselves into thinking that they know everything then try gaining knowledge over EVERYthing while you dream and when you wake up tell me what I ate for lunch on that day. And good luck guessing cause I always eat some weird stuff lulz.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
      It is definitely possible to extend the length of your dreams with time dilation and other techniques. I spent at least a year of my life having a series LD in which it felt like each night I was dreaming for months at a time. Those months added up fast and it started feeling like I was spending much more time dreaming than awake. After a while I started losing touch with reality.. even when I was awake I would often find myself daydreaming.

      I still extend my dreams but I spend more time in the real world now than I used to.
      How to dilate time in a dream?

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      This stuff sounds pretty insane..

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      If you gained total omniscience and woke up your head would probably explode.

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      Things You Can't Do in a LD

      First, I'm not sure what is meant by the term "time dilation" here. Studies have shown that time in a LD passes at roughly real time. I don't think it's possible to manipulate the flow of "dream time."

      Reading/writing (especially typing for me) with any kind of consistency is impossible.

      Any higher form of math than simple arithmetic seems impossible.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
      First, I'm not sure what is meant by the term "time dilation" here. Studies have shown that time in a LD passes at roughly real time. I don't think it's possible to manipulate the flow of "dream time."

      Reading/writing (especially typing for me) with any kind of consistency is impossible.

      Any higher form of math than simple arithmetic seems impossible.
      The idea of time dilation within dreams isn't to manipulate time itself if it even exists as more than a mere illusion or tool, but to manipulate the "perception" of time which is very possible to do even while awake.

      Also, here in this thread I think it would be more interesting to compile a list of things which are 99%-100% impossible for anyone to do in any dream, instead of a list of things 1 person hasn't been able to do yet. Reading, writing, and math are all fairly easy to do and I would bet that you could to with a bit of practice.

      Anyone have any more ideas on things which are impossible to do in the dream world?

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