Im new to this. I read where you sit and think about the issue or problem you are having before bed, and then you will dream about it.
Not working out :lol: I dream about everything BUT what Im trying to dream about.
What to do?
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Im new to this. I read where you sit and think about the issue or problem you are having before bed, and then you will dream about it.
Not working out :lol: I dream about everything BUT what Im trying to dream about.
What to do?
Dream incubation doesn't work the way you think it does, and it's not reliable. The oneiric processes will manifest the issues, not necessarily in accordance to your intent, but based on associative memory functions. Usually, the problem will be constructed from new, residual information that is combined with old information that is somehow related to it. You can't really predict what will happen, since your predictions will alter the outcome.
Dreams do not occur in order to fulfil your fantasies. You'll be setting yourself up for disappointment if you try to utilize it for that purpose.
Perhaps you need to research and learn a bit more about it. I didnt mention anything about fantasies, Im talking about solving problems. You ask your mind to solve a problem during sleep. I know it can be done, I just havent been able to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthatic
Dreams Can Solve Problems
Heres a link more geared to what Im talking about. It just hasnt worked so far
http://voices.yahoo.com/using-dreams...ty-146872.html
Yes, it's called Dream Incubation, like I said. Again, it does not work the way you think it does.
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I didnt mention anything about fantasies
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I dream about everything BUT what Im trying to dream about.
:uhm:Quote:
noun: 1. "Something that reflects the imaginary." 2. "A mental image, typically one on which a person dwells at length or repeatedly and which reflects their conscious or unconscious wishes"
This is why I suggested you do some research on it. it DOES work the way I think it does
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Dream incubation is a practiced technique of learning to "plant a seed" in the mind, in order for a specific dream topic to occur, either for recreation or to attempt to solve a problem. For example, a person might go to bed repeating to themselves that they will dream about a presentation they have coming up, or a vacation they recently took. While somewhat similar to lucid dreaming, dream incubation is simply focusing attention on a specific issue when going to sleep. Several studies have shown this method to be successful over a period of time.[citation needed]
Description
For example, in a study at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Deirdre Barrett had her students focus on a problem, such as an unsolved homework assignment or other objective problem, before going to sleep each night for a week. She found that it was certainly possible to come up with novel solutions in dreams that were both satisfactory to the dreamer and rated as objectively solving the problem by an outside observer. In her study, two-thirds of participants had dreams that addressed their chosen problem, and one-third reached some form of solution within their dreams.[1] Other studies have found this type of bedtime dream incubation effective in solving problems of a more subjective, personal nature.[2] In Barrett's book, The Committee of Sleep, she describes her study of prominent artists and scientists who draw inspiration from their dreams. While most of these dreams occurred spontaneously, a small proportion of the respondents had discovered informal versions of dream incubation on their own. They reported giving themselves successful pre-sleep suggestions for everything from seeing finished artwork in their dreams to developing plots or characters for a novel to asking dreams to solve computing and mechanical design problems.[3]
A 2010 article in Scientific American quotes Barrett summarizing a few of the incubations techniques from The Committee of Sleep as follows:
If you want to problem-solve in a dream, you should first of all think of the problem before bed, and if it lends itself to an image, hold it in your mind and let it be the last thing in your mind before falling asleep. For extra credit, assemble something on your bedside table that makes an image of the problem. If it's a personal problem, it might be the person you have the conflict with. If you're an artist, it might be a blank canvas. If you're a scientist, the device you're working on that's half assembled or a mathematical proof you've been writing through versions of.
Equally important, don't jump out of bed when you wake up—almost half of dream content is lost if you get distracted. Lie there, don't do anything else. If you don't recall a dream immediately, see if you feel a particular emotion—the whole dream would come flooding back.
If you're just trying to dream about an issue or you want to dream of a person who's deceased or you haven't seen in a long time, you'd use very similar bedtime incubation suggestions as you would for problem solving: a concise verbal statement of what you want to dream about or a visual image of it to look at. Very often it's a person someone wants to dream of, and just a simple photo is an ideal trigger. If you used to have flying dreams and you haven't had one in a long time and you miss them, find a photo of a human flying
Ill wait for more educated people to answer the question, meanwhile go research it, I could answer the way you do myself
Please use quotation marks, as this does not demonstrate your precedence of thought, but more or less shows your misplaced sense of pride.
I provided that link to you, I know what dream incubation is; I've studied, very deeply, various aspects of oneirology. I'm just not giving you the answers you want to hear.
Please read about what is involved with 'memory consolidation' and associative memory, then reconsider what I previously said. It is a bit lengthy, sorry to say--there are no shortcuts.
So Harvard Medical School is wrong but you are right...got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthatic
I never said they are wrong, nor am I attempting to imply it. You, however, are approaching this on an ineffectual level.
These types of (strawman) arguments are not productive. You can continue to try to misrepresent my position--you are clearly angered by something I must have said--or you can let it go. Please read the article that I posted a link to. I'm trying to help you.
I said "I read where you think about the problem you are having before bed, and supposedly you will dream and solve it somehow"
You said "trying to live out your fantasies in a dream you will always be disapointed, and it doesnt work this way"
I said "maybe you should educate yourself a bit, because it DOES work the way I think it does, according to proven medical studies"
You continue to tell me it doesnt,
So HOWWWWWW am i misinterpreting you? Im angry a bit because If I were to take your word at face value, I would have gone away thinking it was wrong
That doesnt seem to bother you.
ANYWAY, who is next?
So, you think I am debating the semantics of 'Dream Incubation'? That's not what I was referring to.
This statement says it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeeber
Just because its not working out for ME does NOT mean it doesnt work. It HAS worked in PROVEN studies. Cabice? I havent seen any correlation between what I dream
and what Im trying to solve, I have without trying had recurring dreams that seem to reflect issues Ive had, but I havent had anything as of yet show me where being proactive with the dream can offer solutions. But im not that arrogant to think it doesnt work if it hasnt worked for me.
Thats why I asked, perhaps im doing it wrong, or missing something. You on the other hand keep telling me how wrong I am, but havent offered any morsal of input.
I have, but you just keep ignoring it:
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The oneiric processes will manifest the issues, not necessarily in accordance to your intent [or desire], but based on associative memory functions. Usually, the problem will be constructed from new, residual information that is combined with old information that is somehow related to it.
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Please read about what is involved with 'memory consolidation' and associative memory, then reconsider what I previously said.
Motivational systems are intrinsically involved with the functional content, which is influenced by your mentations, concerns and memories.Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeeber
Put two and two together. Your problem is not a mystery.
No, you keep trying to be smart. As if you hold some sort of magical book. The study shows that it works, Im not interested in mumbo jumbo, Im intesrted in knowing if this is a tool I can use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthatic
If the runners of the study asnwered questions the way you do, they wouldnt have even had a study to do. You're wrong, its proven to work.
That is decidedly wearisome.
Nowhere did I say that it did not work. I'm just trying to explain its functions, which should give direct clues as to why you have not succeeded. This is very basic information that, if understood correctly, will give you insight into the issue. If you want to be intellectually lazy, pejorative, while dismissing the information I give as "mumbo jumbo," then so be it.
You have continually held a negative disposition toward me, and I can only hope that another person will reiterate what I have been trying to tell you, so then there might be a better chance of you taking this information more seriously. The problem you are having, whether you can recognize the connection or not, directly relates to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthatic
But you havent said ANYTHING, other than it doesnt work the way I think it does. When I have already shown that it DOES.
This seems to be your problem, you continue to make it about how I am the one not seeing things correctly, as if there was no chance YOU are being
vague in your responses, and being unduley aloof. You're a typical forum know it all.
I WANT TO DO WHAT THE POSITIVE RESULTS OF THE STUDY AT HARVARD did.
Instead of telling me why im wrong, tell me why you are right. Tell me how thinking what they did in this study was not doable.
If you dont tell me anything as to why it's wrong, just that its wrong, then dont bother. Im not going to pick you for information, id rather pick the doctors who did the study, but I dont think they are on the forum
Why did this even turn into a fight?
Please keep all replies helpful, and relevant to the OP's initial question. Righteous indignation goes here.
Turns into a fight when one party wants to play socrates, and not answer as simply as they can, a simple question. I referenced a study that was done on dreaming out a problem, and that it worked for them but not me personally. Yet, somehow im wrong, and Im not enlightened as the great one is.Quote:
Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue
This could be a result of many things, but, I don't know.. What I would recommend is trying to do a minor WILD That does not actually take you into a lucid dream, just long enough until your body starts to really feel asleep, then as you still think about the problem or issue, doze off, as you may be a lot closer to a REM Period by then, which means there is not a lot of time for your mind to switch off to another problem, I don't know, just an idea :)
Well, I shall summarize it:
Trying (or wanting) to make it happen does not, on its own, make it happen. In fact, depending on the circumstances, it can bring about the opposite. There is much more that is involved, for the umpteenth time. You can refer to my previous posts if you are still pondering the sqrt(2).
The positive results are not unanimous, and the methods did not bring about the same results every time. Problem solving (in dreams) happens on its own, anyway. Having the intent, writing it down, immersing yourself in the subject of interest, and trying to implement it into a dream--this can only give dreams a supportive push in that direction, which can easily be undone by your motives. Sometimes, you'll even find fragments of the subject implemented in a distorted way, completely opposite to how you wanted it to be implemented.
It's not a clean-cut process; there are many other variables and influences that shape the result. Ignoring this fact will definitely not help.
Are you serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeeber
Hmm, have you considered the possibility that when you dream of anything else other than the problem, it's not because dream incubation did not work, but because your conscious mind does not recognize that your subconscious has symbolically translated your problem into those dreams? Try to see whether you can get any insight into the problem you are trying to solve by analyzing your dreams using them as prisms to try to shed new light onto your problem in an imaginative creative way. Things may not be what they appear in your dreams, and there may be a message hidden in them for you, or even if there was no hidden message in the dreams themselves your process of trying to use your imagination to try to solve your problem using the dreams as tools to brainstorm about it in a new way may help you. :)
You should hear to Earthatic, he is genuinely trying to help. Dream incubation is not black in white, as much as many people like to point it out: yes, even scientists. One thing you have to take into account in these studies is their length. Repeating exercises of incubation can eventually lead to incorporation of that content in the dream, but it's something "do X, 5 hours later you'll see Y". Besides, there's several factors that can delay certain content to appear. Studies have showed that the "daily residue" can show up in dreams something like 3 days later, and again 1 week later, and this varies a lot.
Not to be said that it can't be done, it's more like "be ready to try it for some time, you'll get no fast results".
Being helpful is difficult enough. Phrasing a reply that doesn't come off as an attack on someone else's ideas or intentions is a truly spectacular feat, and misinterpretations are all too common. Being mindful of the words we use can prevent threads like this one turning into a heated disagreement.
It is true that incubating a dream idea or goal is tricky at best and can be downright elusive to the point of agony. However, what works for one person isn't a hard rule for someone else, and that is proven time-and-again on this forum. Keep that in mind. There are no hard rules when dealing with people.
From my perspective it's difficult to solve a problem in a dream, and even harder to dream about what you want to without having a lucid dream with full-control. But that's what we're all here to learn how to do.
Thinking about an issue before bed can be helpful but it's just as likely to cause you to lose sleep. I have found, by reading many accounts and paying attention to what people say, that we are more likely to dream about thoughts and experiences we have during the 12 hours before bedtime, particularly during early to mid-afternoon. I know there are a lot of reasons for this which need not be hashed out but it would seem the best time to dwell on issues (and solve them) would be while awake in the earlier part of the day. In this manner you are more likely to solve your problems in a useful way and have a greater chance of dreaming about them.
The replies above mine are intended to help. As zoth00 said,
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"be ready to try it for some time, you'll get no fast results."
Do what works for you. Everything else is just advice.
That's actually a pretty good, practical idea that I thought bore repeating...Quote:
Originally Posted by Phased
Thanks for the opinion, means a lot that my ideas are actually plausible! I thought that that could be a valid option because of how REM Periods work, and all of that jazz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous