Thread: Expectation vs. Belief

It's basically the same, isn't it?
If you believe you can fly, you expect it - and vice versa.
Did you actually expect to fly when it didn't work or did you have some major doubts?

But no matter whether there's a difference, I've also noticed that saying/hearing in a dream that you can do it enhances the chance of it working. One night, I kinda knew I was dreaming but weren't actually understanding it, so I just tried to follow the story. I had to climb up a hill but it didn't work. Suddenly, i heard a dc say that I just have to actually try and it will work ... I tried again with new motivation and it was really easy.
So maybe, it's more thinking vs 'hearing' than expecting vs believing ?

To believe is to accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of. To expect is to regard (something) as likely to happen.
Belief is to theory as expectation is to fact.
Beliefs don't require proof. Expectations require proof.
Beliefs are built upon thoughts. Expectations are built upon experience.

Say a dog heard a bell and was given a treat. Then the next day, the dog heard the bell and wasn't given a treat. The dog might have believed it was going to get a treat but probably didn't expect it, due to lack of experience.

Now say the same dog heard a bell and was given a treat for 100 consecutive days. Due to it's experience, the dog now expects a treat every time it hears the bell.

So, you can believe you can fly all you want, but you won't subconciously expect to fly until you've experienced it enough.

Originally Posted by LucidBrot

It's basically the same, isn't it?

ex·pec·ta·tion
ˌekspekˈtāSHən/
noun: expectation; plural noun: expectations

1.
a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
"reality had not lived up to expectations"

be·lief
noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"

Maybe belief has to do with the present, and expectation has to do with the future, even the very near future, as in "I will fly," but belief is more like, "I am flying!"

If you believe you can fly, you expect it - and vice versa.

Did you actually expect to fly when it didn't work or did you have some major doubts?

Neither. I expected to fly and thought maybe my flying technique was wrong, but had no doubts.

But no matter whether there's a difference, I've also noticed that saying/hearing in a dream that you can do it enhances the chance of it working. One night, I kinda knew I was dreaming but weren't actually understanding it, so I just tried to follow the story. I had to climb up a hill but it didn't work. Suddenly, i heard a dc say that I just have to actually try and it will work ... I tried again with new motivation and it was really easy.
So maybe, it's more thinking vs 'hearing' than expecting vs believing ?

Maybe it's hearing, thinking, and believing. I sure did say "I BELIEEEEVE IN ME!" at the top of my lungs as I flew. Thanks for pointing that out. I am going to try to deliberately do verbal commands in my dream, like in DBZ:KAAAAAAMEHAMEHA!

This is actually an interesting topic. In my last few lucid dreams, the second I thought something would happen, it would, or doubted something, and it didn't. I jumped to a platform and wondered whether it would hold me, and I crushed it and fell through.

I think verbally saying something would help reinforce the idea and help you/your subconscious to make it happen, and it will. I like how you got it as you shouted you believed in yourself. I think it's a powerful concept just simply verbalizing what you want in a dream.

Nomad, i think you're confusing belief with will.

I'd approach it a different way. In usage, the words "expectation" and "belief" are comparable. But it my model of beliefs, based on neural networks, they are different. A neural network is like a calculator that filters inputs to get a output. Propositions are the input and expectations are the output. Beliefs are the parameters in the calculator that determine how the input is interpreted and how the output is generated.

I think beliefs are more or less constant in the short term. They only change gradually over long periods of time or perhaps as a result of a very traumatic experience. An expectation arise when you compare a proposition against your beliefs. Moreover beliefs have weight that is used to resolve conflicts between them. A proposition is a set of details about a scenarios. Since beliefs are constant, when given a proposition, your beliefs will always result in the same expectation (in the short term). The trick is to change the proposition.

In the example, I would break it down like this:

Beliefs (constant):

1. Werelions can't fly.
2. Birds can fly, and the mechanism of their flight has to do with flapping their wings.
3. Things that can't fly on their own can achieve flight through other means (planes, jetpack, magic).
4. In a lucid dream, I can fly.
5. In a lucid dream, I can defy any limitation.


And the thought process was a series of propositions, each trying to get the desired expectation of flying:

- I can fly in lucid dream? (not yet aware of being a werelion) => invokes belief 4 => yes
- Werelion can fly? => contradicts belief 1 => no
- Werelion can fly by imitating bird? => invokes a combination 2 and 3 which lends some plausibility, but still outweighed by 1 => no
- I can fly in lucid dream as werelion? => invokes 4, but still outweighed by 1 => no
- I can fly in lucid dream and I am not limited by werelion physics? => invokes 4 and 5, finally enough to outweight 1 => yes

So it's all about the existing beliefs, how the proposition invokes those beliefs, and the relative weight of competing beliefs. As for changing beliefs over a longer period, that's another topic but I'll leave it for now.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Nomad, i think you're confusing belief with will.

No. I will to fly right now, but I don't believe I can.