Advanced Dream Controllers Thread

[FinnTheFlobot]

So: reality is still reality, regardless of how advanced your LD adventures might become... at least for me. Interesting stuff, thanks for the answers. What do you use lucid dreaming for? How often do you have them?

[Sageous]

^^ These days I use LD'ing as a tool for developing the ability to link my self-awareness with my unconscious mind and, if it exists, my soul. I use dreaming's unique ability to create new metaphor to develop a way to communicate with both in a way that I can understand. This would fully unite the parts of my Self (body, mind, and soul). I also practice a non-religious form of sleep yoga, which requires fairly solid LD'ing skills as well. I'm hoping that over the next few decades the combination of these two things (uniting B,M & S, and sleep yoga) will take me to some pretty interesting places, perhaps effectively creating a whole new Me with even newer, as yet unimagined, tools for growth available. And, since sleep yoga's primary purpose is to provide a way to mindfully navigate the path from death to whatever lies beyond (if there is anything), if all else fails I'll at least have a leg up for the final journey. How often do I have LD's? Well, if you use the DV (and LaBerge, for that matter) measure of simply being aware that I am dreaming, I have them every night: with three rarely recurring exceptions, all of my dreams have a dose of lucidity in them; sort of a side-effect of practicing the art all these years, I guess. However, I only do the advanced stuff on Wednesdays, and even then I rarely reach the levels necessary to do the work I noted above. I also try to set aside one or two months out of the year to do serious work more frequently (3 to 5 days per week). So the dreams that I personally describe as lucid -- full access to self-awareness and memory -- only happen once per week, and even then the ones I really want only come a few times a year, and do so with with great effort and day work on my part. tl;dr: For me advanced LD'ing is a powerful tool for developing my long-term (like, life-long) spiritual and psychic goals. I am always slightly lucid, but the really advanced work occurs less frequently.

[FinnTheFlobot]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Where you're at is where I want to be someday. I have a long ways to go, that much is clear.

[Mzzkc]

Oh hey, this seems like a cool thread with some potential. *reads* Nope, same old conversations as always: a newcomer with legitimate experiences taking themselves/things too seriously and not really pushing stuff any further than they've gone before; Sageous talking about transcendental experiences beyond human understanding and...well...training awareness/fundamentals; Sensei being a curious cucumber spongey brain person and gathering more information to further his persistent world goals (but really after all these years I'm starting to suspect he's been planning something much more nefarious than he lets on); Hukif being generally amazing and walking to the beat of his own drum, despite people not quite "getting it"; a couple folks getting all philosophical; a few questions from newbies followed by well-practiced answers from vets; and me dropping into the party super-late with a quick, dumb, trolly quip that probably doesn't really do anyone any good. *sigh*

[Sageous]

^^ C'est la vie, Mzzkc...

[FryingMan]

What, no reference to the fundamentals? I wonder if I'm a newcomer or a veteran at this point? Or just getting all philosophical? "Be the post you want to see."

[xxPhoebusxx]

^^ These days I use LD'ing as a tool for developing the ability to link my self-awareness with my unconscious mind and, if it exists, my soul. I use dreaming's unique ability to create new metaphor to develop a way to communicate with both in a way that I can understand. This would fully unite the parts of my Self (body, mind, and soul). I also practice a non-religious form of sleep yoga, which requires fairly solid LD'ing skills as well. I'm hoping that over the next few decades the combination of these two things (uniting B,M & S, and sleep yoga) will take me to some pretty interesting places, perhaps effectively creating a whole new Me with even newer, as yet unimagined, tools for growth available. And, since sleep yoga's primary purpose is to provide a way to mindfully navigate the path from death to whatever lies beyond (if there is anything), if all else fails I'll at least have a leg up for the final journey. How often do I have LD's? Well, if you use the DV (and LaBerge, for that matter) measure of simply being aware that I am dreaming, I have them every night: with three rarely recurring exceptions, all of my dreams have a dose of lucidity in them; sort of a side-effect of practicing the art all these years, I guess. However, I only do the advanced stuff on Wednesdays, and even then I rarely reach the levels necessary to do the work I noted above. I also try to set aside one or two months out of the year to do serious work more frequently (3 to 5 days per week). So the dreams that I personally describe as lucid -- full access to self-awareness and memory -- only happen once per week, and even then the ones I really want only come a few times a year, and do so with with great effort and day work on my part. tl;dr: For me advanced LD'ing is a powerful tool for developing my long-term (like, life-long) spiritual and psychic goals. I am always slightly lucid, but the really advanced work occurs less frequently. That's interesting. I always thought once you became advanced the success rate would be much higher. In Lucid Dreaming Gateway to the Inner self. The author mentions how using MILD in his prime he would have 30 lucids a month. I'm interested in the same applications as you. To explore my self awareness and discover if there is more to life to than just what's physical. I had hopes that I would be able to have a high level LD every night. Once I put the time in.

[Sageous]

That's interesting. I always thought once you became advanced the success rate would be much higher....I had hopes that I would be able to have a high level LD every night. Once I put the time in. Well, I might have accidentally misspoken there. The bar for what I consider a success tends to move a little higher whenever I get close to it, making success as I see it more difficult, and fairly rare; I should have clarified that. So what I deem a success might be very different from what others deem a success. If you reach the certainly attainable level of 30 lucids per month (don't be surprised when you find your total far higher), and you are working specifically toward achieving the hi-level stuff (and not slipping down the "fun" slope, which isn't such a terrible thing), you ought to be able to have -- and work with -- high-level LD's frequently. Every night might be a bit much, though: the really high-end dreams that help me "explore my self awareness and discover if there is more to life to than just what's physical," can be pretty taxing, especially on the intellectual side; you might find yourself allowing a few off days between the Big Dreams to mentally digest where you went and what you might have learned, and to make your plans for the next big dive.

[xxPhoebusxx]

Oh cool okay, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I remember that being in the book as well. He ended up taking 2 years off to process after a particularly deep dive. I'm also a crossroads in a sense. The fun stuff looks like it would be good but I'm at a point where I'm more interested in discovering. But perhaps focusing on the fun stuff is needed. In order to build up the familiarity with navigating the dream space. My experiments thus far haven't yielded much. I tried questioning a dream figure in a lucid dream if I have a soul. The answer was "no". "But you can delude yourself if that makes it easier for you" Thanks, Sageous.

[Wisher]

Dreaming up reality, thats an interesting assumption Sageous is it true? That reality exists when all belief is taken out of the picture? To say so may cause us to disregard the paradoxical non-existant "stuffs" that lie on the outer edge of what is inherently understandable. These paradoxical counter-intuitive realms which have no reality seem to be an exciting frontier to adventure through. These concepts have an almost 'Alice in Wonderland' insanity coupled with mystery on par with the aftermath of a black hole collision. With such a potent level of mystery can we make such bold statements as 'reality exists'? Isnt the paradox beyond ideas of fact vs. fiction the land where dreams begin? But maybe by creating hard fast laws even at the most basic level, it helps us make sense of these crazy things Also I agree, nothing wrong with the spice of fun. Or boring, or angry, any vibe for that matter. Ingredients are how great recipes are made! Just thoughts

[Sageous]

Dreaming up reality, thats an interesting assumption Sageous is it true? That reality exists when all belief is taken out of the picture? To say so may cause us to disregard the paradoxical non-existant "stuffs" that lie on the outer edge of what is inherently understandable. These paradoxical counter-intuitive realms which have no reality seem to be an exciting frontier to adventure through. These concepts have an almost 'Alice in Wonderland' insanity coupled with mystery on par with the aftermath of a black hole collision. I'm pretty sure I never made an assumption about dreaming up reality; were you thinking of someone else? Still: Though creating reality from the stuff of dreams seems an excellent pursuit or possibility, I haven't yet come across using dreams to magically influence or add to waking-life reality in any concrete way (though I do admit that I spent some time looking for such magic; we all should). That said, advanced LD'ing can certainly help you create, from the stuff of dreams, your own presence in reality; and that can change a whole lot of things, for you. Also, I believe that every realm, no matter how paradoxical or removed from our own it may prove to be, must have its own existent reality -- whether or not we humans can understand or identify that existence. Indeed, I'm pretty sure the word "realm" itself implies the presence of reality. With such a potent level of mystery can we make such bold statements as 'reality exists'? I think it might be even more bold to assume that reality does not exist without our input or presence. That would imply that we puny humans are possessed with truly cosmic power -- I haven't seen much evidence of that either (and again, not for not looking). Isnt the paradox beyond ideas of fact vs. fiction the land where dreams begin? Sure. But keep in mind that this is all only paradoxical because it is unfamiliar (or, if you like, as yet uncreated). Because of its own inherent paradoxical nature (being awake while you are asleep/being the "real" You in an unreal world that exists only in your imagination), LD'ing might be just the tool for exploring these realms (should they exist) and bring home some sense of them that makes them a little less paradoxical, and perhaps a lot less empty. But maybe by creating hard fast laws even at the most basic level, it helps us make sense of these crazy things It does... as long as those hard fast laws reflect, even if dimly, the reality they are defining, and aren't simply made up myths based on breathless imaginings.

[Wisher]

Oh, 'Dreaming up reality' was just an overture to the response that followed. Kind of like a clef in music used to set the tone of the piece. The assumption in question was that reality exists when belief is taken out of the picture, which is possible, even likely, but true? Who knows And yea ur right using words like realm does allude to an existance, but only because vocabulary is so limiting and does little justice to the beauty of the matter. Honestly, i'm surprised i was able to articulate those thoughts to that degree. They may sound jibberish even borderline trolling so thank you for understanding they are sincere ideas. Glad to hear you have searched for the magic of it too! What an exciting pursuit, the grandest quest to embark on: To slam a hole in reality and mesh waking and dreaming into matrimony Understandable that you set aside such an uncertain quest, curious what your search involved though if you would care to share. What were your most memorable efforts? Also in terms of the last comment on reality & myth, they seem as inseperable as ying & yang. Breathless imaginings, smoke in mirrors, vivid delusion, resounding trance, false memory, phantom impression, waking life. Convincing as always, we believe the dream until lucid

[xxPhoebusxx]

I'm also interested in the most memorable efforts.

[sloth]

I guess I should join this thread. The only thing I cannot do is conjure objects, people, or environments. This is because twenty years ago I failed and became convinced that I couldn't. Don't bother lecturing me. I know what the problem is, but after twenty years it's hard to retrain my subconscious that it will actually work THIS time. Plus, I really have not had the need to do this. I always find countless things to do to take up my time. I can do anything in all of my dreams, even if I am not lucid. Many times I just simply find myself in that familiar where I can do anything. In these dreams, the real world seems like it was a dream.

[gab]

Welcome back, sloth! Maybe you already tried just Knowing that required object or person is just behind the next corner, in your pocket, behind you, in that next coffee shop... This way you don't need to conjure. It's not up to you, because those things are there simply because they always are. Not just because you want them to be. You don't need to conjure money/magic pills... that you always carry in your pocket or somebody that is in that cafe every time this time of the day, or something that is in the wall dispenser just behind the corner. Sorry if this is something you already tried. Oh, I'm gonna mention how I do it, coz it sounds crazy and not many people do it this way. I actually practice this an other things I want to do during day. Once I really wanted to visit Tahiti. So I thought to myself while sitting at my computer "wow, look at those palm trees and beautiful tropical ocean behind me" and I looked behind me acting all surprised and amazed. It took a few tries until one time I do this in a lucid an there is Tahity right behind me.

[sloth]

Welcome back, sloth! Maybe you already tried just Knowing that required object or person is just behind the next corner, in your pocket, behind you, in that next coffee shop... This way you don't need to conjure. It's not up to you, because those things are there simply because they always are. Not just because you want them to be. You don't need to conjure money/magic pills... that you always carry in your pocket or somebody that is in that cafe every time this time of the day, or something that is in the wall dispenser just behind the corner. Sorry if this is something you already tried. Oh, I'm gonna mention how I do it, coz it sounds crazy and not many people do it this way. I actually practice this an other things I want to do during day. Once I really wanted to visit Tahiti. So I thought to myself while sitting at my computer "wow, look at those palm trees and beautiful tropical ocean behind me" and I looked behind me acting all surprised and amazed. It took a few tries until one time I do this in a lucid an there is Tahity right behind me. I have tried opening doors and turning corners, and I have had a little success.. a little. I have also been able to summon people by simply asking for them to come visit. For what it's worth, the doors and corners trick is the only thing that has ever worked at all for me. I've kind of learned to work around it in most cases by saying, "Well why do I need that object? I don't need money when I can just explain to the clerk that I am sloth, the dreamer and ruler of this realm. I don't need magic pills when these magic pebbles on the ground will definitely do the trick.' I also have found that transforming things is a bit easier than manifesting things. Last night I had a dream that I was at a party, and someone at the party wanted some green cigarettes, and he was asking me to conjure some. I knew I couldn't, so I told him to go outside and pick some random leaves and grass, and to bring it back to me, so that I could transform it for him. I know I've said "last night" a lot today. Last night's lucid dream was ten hours long. That's kinda why I'm here today. So, a lot of things happened last night. lol TLDR: You did make me consider something I had not, however, in that in many cases I could simply look in places where the object would normally be, or should be, rather than in random places, like I've been doing. That makes a lot of sense, and I have a strong expectation of that working. I appreciate that a lot. Thank you. Changing scenery/location has ALWAYS caused my dreamscape to collapse. I actually found a fully detailed teleporter wormhole portal thing in my closet one time. I wasn't even looking for one. I stepped in and got jerked very violently out of the dream. I think it has something to do with the amount of clarity/imagination it requires. However, I know that it is possible because while doing a dream check one time I thought "Am I dreaming? ... No ... But I'm about to be." because I saw the dream in the distance, coming at me through the void, and I watched an egyptian pyramid scene fly in, matrix style, and spread out around me. I know the mental capacity is there. It's just that it took me ten years to fully learn HOW I was controlling my dreams. I didn't realize that it was so based on conviction until I had already convinced myself that I couldn't do it. Now I have to retrain myself, and with all of the workarounds I have designed over the years, I don't get much practice. I appreciate the help!

[Sensei]

Hmmm... I never see much need for conjuring, I usually just teleport where I need to, if you like where you are, but a few extra things are needed, then teleport to a place that looks 100% similar, but has that thing that you need. I find that you can use teleporting to solve 99% of problems in dreams.

[sloth]

Hmmm... I never see much need for conjuring, I usually just teleport where I need to, if you like where you are, but a few extra things are needed, then teleport to a place that looks 100% similar, but has that thing that you need. I find that you can use teleporting to solve 99% of problems in dreams. Wow... I wonder if this could work..

[Sageous]

^^ Yes, it could certainly work. Teleporting (aka, resetting the dream scene to a new one that might work better for you) is a fine way to shift things toward your goals. But, of course, you must have the expectation that any change you make will work in your favor... if you are convinced you will fail, you will fail.

[sisyphus]

I read the whole thread. I debated with myself what I might add. Instead I settled on sharing a well-known poem. "Ozymandias" by Percy Bysshe Shelley (1818). I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: 'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away."

[AnotherDreamer]

Aw man, I hate that I'm so late to this thread! I am by no means a master/god of my dreams all the time. Sometimes, but not that often! I find the second requirement a bit odd, isn't waking yourself up intentionally one of the first things that people normally do when they realize they're in a dream during a nightmare? I also have followed the old trend of naturals doing free-dreaming quite a lot! I liked doing it for the same reasons that I enjoy reading stories or watching movies, it's entertaining and I can often glean some insight or beauty from those dreams. No more than in NLDs though, I suppose, except I can actively shape the dream if I choose to. Lately I've only been practicing free-dreaming in waking life though. I find practicing it like this to be a much more powerful tool for correcting my misconceptions and becoming a more compassionate being. I would highly recommend it! Waking life dream control in general is sort of where my path has taken me. I think of it this way, if I'm having a profound, beautiful, transcendental experience in a dream, why should it have to end when I wake up? My waking life world is still painted with my dreams (although perhaps a bit more subtly) and I can stay in these dreams for much longer. It seems to me that this is a form of dream control that has the most beneficial, positive impact on myself and the world around me. That's all I had to add. Do you guys do this often as well?

[Wisher]

Actually waking dream control is a favorite! Its fun experimenting with and has become a study more than a hobby as of late. By no means an expert, its awe for the beauty of it (amateur by definition) that keeps me tinkering with new ways to develop waking dream control as a skill. Free dreaming is fun too, both free and guided can be immense fun in turns.