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Looking for very advanced dream controllers to talk to about their experiences and abilities.
This is an example of the type of people I would love to talk to:
1) Can Totally Control all aspects of your dream (Including Location, Environment, People and your own abilities)
2) Can wake yourself up from a dream at any time.
3) You basically are GOD in your dream world and can do anything that pops into your mind.
If you are at this level I would love to have discussions here.
Hi,
spontaneously i would suggest Sageous and Sivason but dont know if they have an interest in this conversation. but i would love to read your discussions ;)
I don't like the term "advanced dream control" for things like that since they all can be done easily depending on who you are.
Probably 1/5 lucids is like this for me. I am only a few years into lding. I consider things to be advanced if they take more than one dream to achieve. For instance persistent realms and things like that. I count my dream items that are persistent under the same category. I have them each dream and they don't change, I give them specific powers so that I can have some limits in dreams.
With "godlike" powers, I must ask, how big is the dream that you go into? Square miles or kilometers would be nice. I have never had control of an entirety of my dream, meaning, no matter how far I reach my consciousness I haven't run out of dream world to inhabit, and thus I am not "God" in the dream, but either everything I can see or scan. Basically, what I mean, I can do whatever I want in the space I can see. I can expand that past everything I see into everything I can feel, but that is only expanded to about a kilometer or so in diameter. Make sense? I can feel that there is tons of room for improvement. Especially since I rarely remember my goals, and in super powerful mode, I am usually using "walk control" which seems to be less satisfying or fun than other forms of control.
Tldr, if you can have anything you want with a snap of your fingers, the journey is the reward.
I always have an interest in the advanced stuff, RelaxAndDream, but unfortunately my interest usually wanders a bit off the beaten path and I don't help the conversation much. For instance, here's a funny thing:Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxAndDream
I would say I actively enjoyed all three categories of the OP's advanced dream controllers prerequisites at least 20 years ago, and even played with godlike powers per Sensei's well-framed parameters (I actually -- and regularly -- ran out of dreamworld and opened up new horizons of my own design). However, since then I rarely if ever practice that kind of control.
Why? For two very different reasons:
First and foremost, I have followed the progression of control and self-awareness in dreams to a point where I've encountered a world of discovery and growth that moves well beyond the reach of any dream control, even the godlike variety; a world of transcendental dreams that brings me to places/conscious conditions that exceed my imagination and creativity... I would even say I've found those two things reversed, where imagination and creativity are returned to me in a very pure form, which I've found difficult to comprehend and (being transcendental) impossible to properly describe. I'm not sure that made sense, but such is the nature of these conversations!
Second, and at the other end of the spectrum, I've found that my dreaming mind, my unconscious, is more than capable of managing my dreams for me. I have no problem with lucidly deciding I want to do something or go on some adventure and letting my dreaming mind do all the work with creating the world, DC's, plots, etc. We are all endowed naturally with an incredible dream-creation engine that can probably top anything we can consciously manage ourselves, so why bother trying to play god when the dream will be better without the effort? So in a sense I am doing OP's requirement #3, but letting my dreaming mind do the heavy lifting creatively.
About the only time I intentionally practice godlike power anymore is when I want some quiet time and choose to erase the entire given dream and simply exist in an environment of near perfect nothingness; there is nothing more relaxing! I'm not sure if that counts as godlike because it seems to run anathema to the idea of dream control, but I figured I'd throw it in.
Finally, I'm a little confused about requirement #2: Is being able to wake yourself up at any time really advanced control? I'm not sure.
i thought something like that sageous. i know you can do this stuff but are more like: "who cares godmode?" you have a way different focus or aim with ld. and i think sivason might be similar. i think that most of the really advanced and yearlong lucid dreamers get to a point where godmode just gets boring and they start to look out for something more. and if it is the search for god or the sense of life or silence or enlightenment or another world where you have no powers and might die is depended on the type of person.
to the OP: other potential candidates for this topic that come into my head this night (dont know why i am thinking about this stuff at night^^) might be: PercyLucid and Mzzkc? :)
For me I've gotten to point years ago where all my dreams are lucid and I can take control at any time. I do like to do what I call "Free Dreaming" now. Where I don't interfere with the dream unless I feel a need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
I got bored controlling every aspect of the dream. I considered in like my own private "Holodeck" from Star Trek. Since I learned on my own at a very young age; I just figured it out as I went and grew better at control every night.
Funny, I assumed at around the age of 12 that everyone could do it and was doing it. But when I talked to other kids or adults about my dreams they seemed to think I was nuts. So I learned to keep my mouth shut. But I kept progressing for years until I gained full control with little to no effort. It became second nature to me. It was and still is very fun. I find it keeps me very calm and relaxed in my waking life.
I found this site a few years back and posted a few things and read a lot of posts. But never found anyone that had my level of control. I can't be the only one out there. Maybe it's because I started so young and have doing it for so long. But I hope to have some good discussions with others. Maybe I could pass on some of my experience to others trying to gain better control as well.
I hope this thread continues to grow.
Yes, you sound like you have great control. I got bored years ago with totally controlling the dream and do "Free Dreaming" and let it take me where it may. I learn many things in this state. Sometimes I even see things that happen in the future (don't get me wrong) but it could be just coincidental but I find it fascinating. I still love to experiment in my dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
#2 Waking yourself up. I learned that one at a very young age before I learned "Total Dream Control". If I was having a dream I didn't like I learned to wake myself up. I can still do it if I want to. Just wondering if others can do it will.
I would love to here more of your experiences now and when you were younger.
Not interfering with the dream unless you need to sounds too much like a non lucid dream to me, I have seen many naturals do this and I always think it is strange. I guess because when I exhaust the fun from LDs, I plan on working only on hobbies and for supplementing mental practices. I have heard from quite a few, as well as experienced it a bit myself, that when you practice something in your waking life, supplemented with dream practice, you learn at a much faster rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
I understand that there is no wrong way to Lucid dream btw, I am just asking as nicely as I can. Why not try for something more when LDing?
A few questions:
Can you create a place, dream character, or item that can effectively take away specific powers? In creating persistent realms, I am planning on making many different rules and regulations, some that even just have the same restrictions as waking, but in a different world. Many anime places and things that I would find fun and interesting to create my own world and then practice "that worlds powers"
Can you create fake memories?
Can you dilate time?
Can you delete memories?
Also, reiterating the question,
The reason I have so many questions, is mainly because I do teach the dream control and stabilization class. I believe that the start of dream control is breaking the barriers that stop you from controlling, and the next part is finding more fun and interesting ways to apply it. This is why "creativity" is the best dream control, because it doesn't get boring. ;)Quote:
With "godlike" powers, I must ask, how big is the dream that you go into? Square miles or kilometers would be nice. I have never had control of an entirety of my dream, meaning, no matter how far I reach my consciousness I haven't run out of dream world to inhabit, and thus I am not "God" in the dream, but either everything I can see or scan. Basically, what I mean, I can do whatever I want in the space I can see. I can expand that past everything I see into everything I can feel, but that is only expanded to about a kilometer or so in diameter. Make sense? I can feel that there is tons of room for improvement. Especially since I rarely remember my goals, and in super powerful mode, I am usually using "walk control" which seems to be less satisfying or fun than other forms of control.
I am interested in your abilities, there are certain things that I have heard from many people that LD a lot (some even as much as you), and I generally get the same answers from naturals and the same answers from non naturals.
Also, lots of people usually wake themselves up from nightmares at a young age (I had about 5 LDs when I was a kid because of nightmares and I learned to wake myself up), most people have frightening lucid experiences that they learn to wake themselves up from.
Quite interesting Sageous. Do you mind if I ask you these questions as well? You are a lot more metaphysical and esoteric than I, but that might just come with age. haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Can you create a place, dream character, or item that can effectively take away specific powers? In creating persistent realms, I am planning on making many different rules and regulations, some that even just have the same restrictions as waking, but in a different world. Many anime places and things that I would find fun and interesting to create my own world and then practice "that worlds powers"
Can you create fake memories?
Can you dilate time?
Can you delete memories?
Eric:
I'm not sure what I would share about my specific experiences from the early years; I am not a big fan of sharing specific dreams because it takes forever to relay them (my short remembered dreams are often thousands of words long) and I have a feeling they'd be fairly dull reading for anyone who is not me. I did write a couple of novels that were drawn almost fully from those early dreams that I believe defeated the dullness problem, but I doubt you'd want to read an entire book to get a feel for what I was dreaming/thinking about in those days.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
However, Sensei reminds me very much of me in those early years, in that many of the things he described are things I also tried back then, so he is sort of reporting my state of mind back then (I hope you don't mind the association, Sensei!). Well, there is one major exception:
LD'ing for me has from the beginning been a tool for developing my mind/consciousness and my spiritual link with reality (man, that sounds like something I actually would have said when I was 20!). I had never intended LD'ing to be an end unto itself, though I do admit that that is exactly what it was straight though my teens and early 20's (about 30 years ago).
Since then, though, my focus really has been on using the unique state of consciousness that is LD'ing to further connect my waking-life mind with my unconscious, and to search for the "more" that I hope is out there and/or in me (more so with each passing year). These days, whenever I manage a high-level LD I generally walk away from anything remotely dreamlike and work on constructing metaphors meant to allow me to conjure transcendental moments and then bring them back to waking-life in a form through which I can understand what was really going on in them.
...Of course, on the frequently occurring days when my self-awareness and memory are not running on all cylinders, I am content to have lucid adventures that range from simply going with the flow (aka, I assume, Free Dreaming) to fooling with given dream scenes and DC's, to simply erasing the dream and installing a more interesting story (letting, again, my dreaming mind do the dream-scene/schematic heavy lifting), to just creating that "nothing" I mentioned above and deeply relaxing... I'm afraid I have left long behind doing the the godlike stuff just for the sake of having godlike control, though.
Finally, and more relevant to the thread, I think I need to mention my opinion about control:
For me, the mechanics of dream control at any level -- from going with the flow, to universal creation, to building transcendental bridges -- is unimportant. If you are fully self-aware in a dream and possess a waking-life level of access to memory, then control, for me at least, is just an afterthought. After all, if you are completely aware that your entire dreamworld is simply "You," then being able to change, create, or develop dream scenes, DC, and dream worlds would seem like a natural skill -- control just happens when you know everything you see is just an extension of your own mind. So, as I think Sensei said somewhere up above, I'm not sure that there really is an "advanced" dream control; only advanced levels of lucidity.
Sensei:
I know this wasn't directed at me, but:
All true, but don't underestimate the power of your own dreaming mind. Sometimes it is genuinely amazing to lucidly witness your dreams unfolding around you. It's not something I would do all the time (and I'm not sure Eric does either), but going with the flow can be a fascinating and even powerful experience; I wouldn't recommend fully dismissing the activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
Oh, and of course I obviously agree that it is a very good idea to always move forward and do new things as the current fun stuff gets old.
Such things do tend to grow on people as they age, but for me the metaphysical and esoteric stuff has been fueling my work at some level since day one. Indeed, holding those goals at the forefront has helped keep my mind young as the years slide by.Quote:
Quite interesting Sageous. Do you mind if I ask you these questions as well? You are a lot more metaphysical and esoteric than I, but that might just come with age. haha.
At any rate, sure, I'll have a go at your questions:
Quote:
Can you create a place, dream character, or item that can effectively take away specific powers?
I guess so, though I've never been very concerned with taking away or giving powers in my dreams. I did dabble fairly successfully long ago in converting existing dreams and DC's to worlds that followed my own rules and expectations, if that counts.
Quote:
Can you create fake memories?
We all can, as that is the nature of NLD's. But that wasn't your question, was it? I don't believe you can honestly create a fake memory while lucid, because you will immediately know that memory is contrived and therefore not credible. I can certainly create fake histories to support a current created dreamworld, but I'm not sure that is the same thing.
Quote:
Can you dilate time?
I am still working on that. I've found that the perception of time works about the same in a LD as it does in waking-life, so the best lucid time-dilation I've managed is a few minutes seeming like hours in deeper delta dreams or those LD's in which I've erased everything.
That said, I have some odd theories about time itself, and hope to use advanced LD'ing to eventually prove my case to myself -- and when I do, time-dilation should be a snap!
Also, this is for LD's only. Perceived time-dilation is commonplace in NLD's, which I'm sure you already know.
Quote:
Can you delete memories?
That is not a question to ask someone over 50! ;)
Seriously, though, like creating fake memories, I don't believe you can lucidly delete memories with real honesty; you will know you have deleted them. I can certainly delete memories in my DC's, though, or delete history in my dream stories, if that is what you are asking.
Oh, and, again, we all delete memories every night in our NLD's...
Let me explain what I have been doing for decadesQuote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
1) I can fall asleep in only a few minutes by calming my mind
2) I always know I am in a dream (just became 2nd nature over time)
3) I have learned to totally control all aspects of the dream
A) I can control all my own abilities and powers(Unlimited) (can't get hurt ever)
B) I can control the environment around me by just thinking about it. (No real effort)
C) I can jump to another location instantly or just change my current one.
D) I can create any character I want and control them.
*** The one thing I have never been able to do is connect to someone else in dream with any confirmed proof. I always try to pass some piece of info to the other person. Never works. I don't know if it is possible. I've talked to other that have claimed to do it. I think they are just fooling themselves.
Understand?
@Sageous, I don't mind being considered like a young you. :D I definitely have some differences in beliefs though. :) I need to buy that book from you. I keep forgetting about it when I have the spending money.
I guess sometimes I do spend some time just enjoying the dream, even if I remember my goals. Like this:
I also often have to go with the flow a lot during WILDs, because sometimes I try to move and I move my waking body instead, so I let it go with the flow until I can feel most of my senses. I can move it around using "imagination movement" if I want to rush it, but rushing in a dream really isn't my style, at least not anymore. If it takes me a couple dreams to complete a goal, no worries. I got all the time in the world. haha.Quote:
I look out the window and see an island in the sky (floating around like it isn't supposed to be there, when I first look I can see on top, but it is starting to flip upside down), of course I am in the sky as well. it seems like the earth has been blown to bits, but the atmosphere remains. gravity doesn't seem to make much sense I stare at that for like 5 minutes, because it is beautiful.
Gotcha, thank you for answering my questions Sageous. :D
Yeah, I understand pretty well, but that doesn't answer any of my questions. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
I would be interested on how you got started? What age? How long did it take you to control your dreams? EtcQuote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Sensei:
They come in downloadable and Kindle versions, too (Sageous says, having abandoned all pride)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
As long as I'm shamelessly promoting my work: Oneironauticus captures my dreamworld view from that era, and Party Line is about shared dreaming... and both are fully fueled by my own dreams (so is Simply Pay Attention, but in a different manner -- 2nd edition is coming soon, BTW).
Sorry; I couldn't resist! :sageous:
Eric:
I think sometimes that it started me, but I began taking my dreams and dreaming seriously when I was about 15; I had many LD's before that, but at that age is around when I started thinking that there might be places to go with my dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
I think the primary consideration that got me started was an interest in developing my consciousness and my place/potentials in reality, and dreams seemed like a shortcut to the answers for which I was looking.
I enjoyed a modicum of control from day one (probably because I have always had the mindset that everything in a dream was part of the overall "Me," so control ought to be easy), and I think I reached the godlike control per your parameters (or, a "yes" to all three questions in your OP) by the time I was in college, or probably within 3 years* of deciding to take the practice seriously.
* [EDIT: I got to thinking about the time-frame I listed above, and, after blowing the dust off of some really old DJ's, discovered that the actual amount of time it took me to get to godlike control was more like 4 to 5 years... it seemed important to note the correction, and that memory can be a troubling tool sometimes.]
Maybe it comes from being towards the "mature" end of the spectrum, but my most memorable and enjoyable LDs are those where I exert minimal control and just go with the flow and observe the fascinating ability of my mind to create entire scenes and scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
I think I was similar. I was Lucid Dreaming before 10 years old. Not sure exactly when it started. But that is when I started to experiment with control. Trying to basic things that bugged me. Better sight. Make things brighter and in color. If I had a nightmare being able to wake myself up at will. Then making myself invulnerable to things in my dream or seeing myself from a outsiders perspective. In my teens sometimes I had trouble distinguishing between my waking memories and dream memories. Eventually I overcame that problem around the time I gained total control around 19 or 20. Then the fun began.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
I call that "Free Dreaming". Let the dream go where it wants with no to minimal interference. I've learned a lot from the dreams and have solved problems in my waking life that way. Kind of like a T.V. show about your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by FryingMan
Taking total control has become second nature and takes very little effort. Funny, people here don't understand you can get bored eventually controlling every dream. But after 30 years of total control it does.
I have heard from about 10 different people that full control can get boring. In fact, I don't try to have full control in them, I limit and restrict myself in my own dream world as well as giving DCs certain elements of control so that I don't have to deal with everything. I just get to go on my own adventure, either one I feel like at the time, or in my own dream world Zödra, and continue my quests and fun there with my created friends and enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
During your "Free Dreaming" have you ever saw something that came true later in waking life? I have a few times. I don't know if it is was just a coincidence or something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
During some dreams and some non lucid dreams I have seen things that come true in waking, but it is never anything important. Funny enough, it is usually things like TV shows and meeting people. I am still a little ticked off that I didn't talk to this one girl I met in a dream and then saw in 3 different places in one day. I haven't seen her again, but each time I saw her, she kept looking at me like she recognized me. My wife has dreams like this too. She will tell me about an episode of a TV show, and then 3 months later, that episode will air, it gets pretty specific too. I have started writing down all of her dreams that she tells me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
Have you tried to induce this? It is something I have thought about trying before, but never tried it. :/
@eric & @ sensei:
Do this kind of dreams feel different to you? Do you know that this dream is one that might happen in waking live at some point or do you just know it in retrospective?
Induced what kind of dream exactly???Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
They do feel a little different since you aren't focusing on controlling everything. You are more of an observer. If you are in the dream you are seeing yourself from an outsiders perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxAndDream
I've actually mentioned things to people in my waking life of what I dreamed about. Sometimes they come back days or weeks later and said it happened. Kind of freaked them out. But other times nothing.
Have you tried to learn how to induce dreams about the future? With perfect control, you should be able to set up circumstances to learn the future. With the amount of time you have to practice, I feel like it would be a matter of time before you lean how to use this just like every other dream control. :)
Also, how often do you leave your dream body or transform into some other form? I find it very difficult to believe that trasforming into animals can get boring, but I guess for me, when I transform into animals I have a couple different ways. lucidly transform, or transform and purposefully lose lucidity, running through the forest as a wolf is one of my favorite things, lucidly and non lucidly.
Never tried to purposely dream looking into the future. I guess I could try. It usually just happens during "Free Dreaming".Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
Becoming something else in a dream. Yes, I can become anyone or anything. I can become something else and see myself my outside my body as I'm another person looking at the situation. I think I figured that out around age 20.
Sometimes I will jump from person to person in my dream. Just for the heck of it.
Awesome! Let me know how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricinLA
Gotcha, when jumping into people, can you hear their thoughts? Can you lose yourself to them?
also @RelaxAndDream, It is always retrospective for me, I never know that it is going to happen. Here is a thread I made about it once.
http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-girl-irl.html