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In my dreams, upon the rare event event of becoming lucid, I sometimes try to summon up ki and form it into a energy ball, Dragonball z anyone?, however when I try to do show the dream begins to fade, but when I stop the dream returns to full clarity, why?
I have one theory, when I try to do so, I cause mental strain, causing sleep levels to rise closer to reality.
:idea: Does anyone know or have tried and have done this?
Better refer to it as "chi", the eastern way, ki is more of the the american word I think.
Yes, chi is actually real, both in the pshysical realm and in the astral realm. It is because you ARE chi, also known as life force or energy, you can use this chi. And thus you grow tired when you use it alot, it drains your own energy.
It also depends on what level you LD..mind bubble like most people or actual astral plane. If you are a high level control person chi usage is not really chi usage, its more of imagining the chi ball..then actually creating it.
The dream might fade because either your not focused enough to handle such control yet..but I dont know I am no expert on control.
But the actual REAL chi usage(dbz is a little exaggerated,huge beams lol) causes both pshysical and mental strain over time when you are not an experience user. Its the same with psi, causes great mental strain over time. It all comes from your own self, your own soul, your own chi. So if your not an experienced user and meditator usage will be fairly hard in the actual astral plain. But with a regular LD, were you in control it should not be more hard then any other type of control thing..so just keep practising if you are on that level.
And yes chi control is also possible in the phsysical realm, but it takes great skill and as far as I can tell only been achieved by some ancient monks. But that is the visible chi, we all use invisible chi for most our actions, thats because we are chi :)
It sounds like it would put strain on you to do it, especially if you kicked it to a high level.
You might have seen this, but here is the thread Serinanth made earlier about his experiences with Ki/Chi.
Serinanth's Beam Control Thingy
He'd probably be the guy to talk to about it. :)
I have done as you say, however, my energy ball was not visible. As far as I could tell, focussing my chi did not diminish my lucidity.
But oh man, what a disturbance it made when I released it! The whold fabric of the dream rippled and echoed!
I've got to try that again!
I have never had experience with energy balls or anything but in one dream (Lucid) i could move things with my mind, it took great concentration and the more i did it the harder it became and the dream got weaker after each atttempt.
Hey Anima Check out this thread you can find your answers here. Its like going to school so be prepared to learn alot. ENJOY!
http://dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=311
Hey thanks guys, I still gonna need to practice, next time, i'll see if I do wake up.
Need to meditate...
Hey! Thats the one i posted already! :shock:Quote:
:D
Nothing wrong with being american lucius! It dont matter how you say it, its the same thing.
Anima, loosing lucidity happens to me alot too, especially when I go overboard, it may be mental strain or... you might be bending the rules a lil too far... go too far and the dream world kinda kicks you out. I have learned to be alot more testing so I dont do that anymore, also the hedache I wake up with when that happened is reason enough not to go too far.
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Originally posted by Aphius+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aphius)</div>Hey! Thats the one i posted already! :shock:[/b]Quote:
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Oh Im sorry Aphius I didn't read all the post like I should have at that time. Didn't mean to walk on ya My Bad man.
chi = china
ki = japan
YESSSSS!!!! If I cacn throw just ONE magic missle in my life, I will die happy. hehe.
in dreams? that's easy...but irl? OMG, I keep trying....the most I can do so far is make water ripple...that was pretty cool though.
Heh, IRL?
Thats awesome.
You should videotape that or something, I'd like to see that :P
lol, i can do a few cool things like that.
I have a small series started here in Dream Control of various 'spells' I am capable of. My good magic is much less noticable though. Cause I'm a Bard I have a lot of songs, enchantments...ppl do things for me all the time and I quite often have no idea why, later I realize that I subliminally told them what I wanted before and they never even knew.
I have, once (i only tried once) made the rain go around me. The spell produced a triple rainbow. See Elementalism
by far the best to me, the most obvious.
when I'm tripping though, god, I can do SOOOO much with that mp boost. I can make waves, so I know I'm on the right track, but how does one convert that energy into fire or ice or ANYTHING???
I don't know. That is why I am seeking a mentor. I really really need to learn advanced techniques now that I have gotten good at ld oobe and meditation.
I have started to learn Chi-Gung, an acient Taoist art, that will provide many answers, but nothing about fire balls yet :(
BELIEVE IN YOURSELVES!!! I KNOW THAT MAGIC IS POSSIBLE, YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A WILLI"NG HEART AND AN OPEN CLEAR MIND.
hmmm....i may post a newbie guide on how to start...you guys gave me a good idea!
Hmm.. I dont know about that all, Im sure you know what you are doing but alot of people don't..magic and the like is abused by alot people..
Be aware, dont go on a power trip and dont hunger for knowledge and power too much..I cant warn a person too much.
I know some magic, more of rituals that summon upon things and forces, but I stay away from that, only in special cases.
Dont start it if you dont have a personal teacher yourself Id say.
Like I said I only do anything in case of emergency..but you know what you are doing I think, I hope, for your sake.
Yeah, as far as I can tell its real here too, but to enact will on physical obects on the scale of seconds requires an enourmous amount of focus/unfocus and faith in yourself, the smallest shadows of doubt will ihnder progress, and that has been my bane, in a rare occurance I did make progress and was able to empower an object with a very large amount of light. The dream world is a much more dynamic world that is etherial in form, which makes it much easier to bend and shape using our will (when we are consious) there.
Ki, Chi, The Force... yeah laugh... realise they are all the same thing. Build your confidence in your dreams and then work your way here.
Creation is an act of sheer will.
if you do lucid dreaming enough, you will experiment and realize you can do just about anything. creating objects, moving objects, flying, moving through walls, whatever... it is all possible... creating balls of energy and manipulating the dreamstate, that is all possible if you believe.
first stage of lucid dreaming is generally your mental projection of whatever world your mind sets up... consequently, in that stage you can create just about anything *if* you believe enough and try it. after awhile it becomes indeed just like a game.
next stage of lucid dreaming you actually go to real places or interact with real beings from this world or other worlds. in those stages, you will find serious limitations as to what you can actually do. you are beyond your minds projections and inside real worlds with their own set of rules. to me, that is the real journey is discovering those other worlds... what else is their left to discover? to make that journey however, you need alot more energy and alot more discipline...
*GLEEE*
Intent you think of the dream world much the same way I do
With practice you can learn to do things in those other worlds, it takes time, because you have to figure it out as you go and most times, the rules are different depending on where you are. When one has the Godlike lucid dreams I think they are within their own mind so yes you can do ANYTHING with no stress or strain on yourself, but once you venture outside, its another world. Because you arent alone, there are others perceiving that world, and to make things happen external to yourself you now have to alter their perception of the world as well...
142857
Meh, I already know dreams are reality, and so is this plane, both the pshysical and the astral are real, they are both actual.
And going to heaven is most certainly not the highest priority for me..and nor should it be for anybody, not this plane, nor the astral plane is a dream come true, there is no such thing like a place were dreams become reality completely, it is not meant to be to have ultimate control, it is not meant to have every little desire forfilled.
Its about balance..the greater balance demands our wishes and dreams not to be realized completely, as that is not good for you, nor for the balance of the all. We must grow grow and grow, and with all our wishes and desires and dreams come true, that is impossible.
142857
You have an interesting view of things but I just I cannot agree.
Heaven where all my wishes and desires would manifest would be stagnation and death for me. My experiences in the dream world have shown me this, wherever I go there is flux, there has to be if not everything stagnates. I would cease to grow in such a heaven, as lucius said as well. Yes there are many levels to balance, but there is also another saying,
What is below, is the same above. How true it is I have yet to fully determine, but from what I have seen... it is holding to be so.
Reality for me is flux, "life" this includes the dream world, I used to think otherwise, that this reality that I am typing in was REAL and dreams were dreams, albeit I knew I dreamed differntly than others.... But then when my memory started to tune into my dreams better, (and out of tune with this world hehe) and still its crappy I came to realise, I spend very little time here in this reality... Dreams are just as real, I am experiencing them I am learning and growing... I am alive
Were I ever to stumble on a place where every wish and dream was mine for the taking, I would know that it is only an illusion, a dream within my own mind and not my spirit experiencing reality... which consists of change and growth. I suppose you could wish for growth... but would it be real? would it mean anything? What is a lesson learned without the story that lead to the learning?
I wish you well on your journey into bliss, but I will have to decline, and walk my own path =)
I'm walkin with ya Seri : P
No offense or anything, it is just that bliss, and the desire for bliss will only make you suffer:
"All human life is suffering"
"All human suffering is caused by human desire"
"Take aware human sire and suffering ends"
It is not possible to give up all desire, but to desire ultimate bliss will do you no good and will make you wander endlessly searching for it, as it does not exist. Even not there.
The grand enlightment, not semi enlightment(passing on to the next plane), no the REAL enlightment which you might call heaven is fusion with the core of the all, which you refer to as that being I think. this also called the void. The nothing.
When one reaches enlightment, you cease to exist, your candle burns out. Your rejoin with the core and now are..inexistant. Thats the point of enlightment, the end of the samsara of all the planes, were you let go of all..when you are finnaly at peace forever. But its not time for that yet..ffaaaar from it for us, I would not want that yet, so much to do, so much to see..
For me, ultimately bliss is no good, I wish to help others, I wish to help maintain the peace and harmony, and that takes sacrifices from my side, I wish to be with my sweet twinflame, which takes sacrifice, I choose a path, and it certainly aint that pretty. Thats because life, and every other life in every other plane is not full of bliss, it is not meant to be, everything is a lesson, and one cannot learn much from bliss.
But do you what you think is right, and so shall I, good luck :)
142857
Lucius, you dont need to suffer... =/ sometimes you will but not always.
Seventhangel .... hrmmm.. isint the seventh angel the one that sounds before God knocks on the door of reality and gives us all a vison check and attitude adjustment?
Well anyways... well said =)
Yes. Humans are mortal, "we" are Immortal.
If this universe was created, then it will have an ending, I am unsure of if it was created/started or if it has always been... I am tending to that It did have beginning... because of the way time flows in it. However I dont think that this universe is all there is.
Thing is, since we are immortal beings our spirits are not bound by time and an end. Though our perception as humans is.
I like your thoughts on questioning why we have been placed in this human experience, and yes, I think we are here for exactly that, to learn, but this form of perception is not lies... its just another angle =) and a beautiful one if you know how to pull the veil back and see.
Some of us are trying and some of us are stumbling on (like me=) the fact that we are starting to remember, remembering who we were, who we are now, what we are... and how mislead society has become. Humanity may be a cold... but when you get a cold, after your body has fought it off without the use of medications and antibiotics.. when it fights on its own.. the immune system becomes stronger, and I think the analogy holds true to our spirits as well.
If I were standing on a giant clock face, I would choose to walk down the middle and stop in the center =)
The thing with knowing is... its so hard to KNOW certain things... other things... well you just KNOW =) but then again as our perceptions are all different, what one person knows may not be truth to another? and how then would that person actually know?
I guess the only thing I really Know is that I have a heck of a lot more to see do and learn before I KNOW whats going on =D And i dont mean just on this physical place :lol:
Seri, I'm not saying I suffer all the time, its just a basic Buddhistic teaching, it are the words of The Buddha, not mine. I dont completely agree with the, not everything is suffering, as there are many goods things, many many :)
Though we do have to suffer sometimes yes, without suffering we cant learn, or grow much stronger, so its a good thing we do ultimately, however cruel it always is :/
But he does have a point about the desire, if you would take away ALL desire there would be no more suffering, that includes the desire to eat,to have a house, to be perfectly healthy etc etc. With other words if you become completely empty suffering ends.
But thats not a good thing, as that also includes things like the desire to love and be loved..and love is such a pretty thing :D
Ah well, it doesnt really matter, there is more to live then simple spiritual enlightment and knowledge/awareness, so much more ^_^
lucius, i totally agree with you, free yourself from human desires and life becomes so much easier... i think in our modern society we are too full of desires, passions, random emotions and expectations about our lives. Freeing yourself from that burden frees up a huge amount of energy to do stuff like.... lucid dreaming!! i found a real correlation between freeing my mind from worries and desires and my ability to LD.
on the suffering side, siddhartha (one of the buddha's) was a prince shielded from all worldly pain and suffering, so of course when he saw human suffering for the first time what a shock! but i think they overexaggerate the concept of suffering. in reality I think most people are generally happy, regardless of their condition. suffering is mostly a condition of the mind, thus if your mind is free, their is no suffering or misery.
I call him THE Buddha btw because he was the first to actually come with theories(that truely were accepted) about the enlighted ones, and he is the most known Buddha, other Buddhas are not all that known to the public, just saying ^_^
And well, becoming completely empty is rather hard though, and we are far from ready from that, only when we refuse with the core, and end our journey(for the time being) we cease to exist, become empty and one with the void, right now, I would not want that yet..there are desires that are so beautiful they just have to be desired..like pure,unconditional,true love.. :)
Buddhists also say that nothing lasts forever, I dont agree with that either..true alot doesnt, but some things do, just the way one could look at "forever"..forever does exist