The 15-second problem

Recently, my lucid count has passed 15. And with each and every one, I seem to get more frustrated that none of these last more than 15 seconds! I've long passed the phase where I get extremely excited upon becoming lucid, so that is not the cause for my waking up. Frankly, I'm at a loss, so I'm asking for help.

When I become lucid, everything appears fine. The dream does not instantly respond. Yet, after about 15 seconds, either of these happens:
1) The End
The most common ending which can only be described as simply 'the end'. The dream stops. There's no warning signs (but it's no abrupt ending), but at a certain point it just seems as if the dream has reached it's natural end. I'm not aware of the dream ending while in it, I'll just wake up at one point and realize that there was nothing beyond those 15 seconds.
2) The Collapse
This happened to me only twice. My field of vision moves away from me, becoming smaller, seems to crumble and become blurry, and at a certain point it looks like I'm watching at a broken TV instead of being in a dream. This ending actually takes a while, and while I've never been, I suppose I can be conscious of it.
3) The Excuse
This happened once, during my most vivid dream ever. It was all so crystal-clear and seemed so real. Apparently, it was too strong to just end, so it needed an excuse. I was walking down the stairs, and on the second floor my parents suddenly come bursting through the door, lunging at me, saying things like "Don't do it!" and "Don't leave!". They grab me, and as I try to free myself from the struggle, the dream loses it's clarity and I wake up. This was not a nightmare, as there was absolutely no scare involved.

I've tried rubbing my hands, it increases my dream realism, but does nothing about the 15-second problem. Spinning does not work either, as I usually can't sense when the dream ends. I've tried stimulating all senses, which resulted in a dream which lasted 5 seconds longer then I would have expected.
Any help would be greatly appriciated, as I'm one frustrated LD'er right now. :(

Well you didn't try verbal commands :) Scream out what you want.

But to be honest, I had a problem like this for a while after pissing off a manifestation of my subconscious.
It just took a bit of time, and the problem went away by itself.
So #1 : Take it easy and don't stress so much about it. It might simply be a matter of time :)

One thing that did help a bit for me - learn to use your false awakenings as dreamsigns.
After your dream ends, you might be falling into another dream. Often a false awakening in these cases.
If you can catch THAT, then you have a greater chance of extending your lucidity :)

Good luck

Hm, good point on the verbal commands, I will try that.
Also, I already catch 90% of my FA's, and I know that after a dream ends, there's usually nothing.

Well, some guys just can't last more than 15 seconds. : )

On a serious note, I have exactly the opposite problem. My most recent LD lasted a while, but it was very blurry and I don't remember much of it at all.

2/3 of my LD's were allso very short. I don't know what you can do about it...

Hmmm.... yes, I think i can relate to the short lucid dream problem ... just last night you see, I had a seemingly short lucid dream (Maybe 2 mins. tops). So, I was walking to the mall and it just dawned on me ... I was dreaming, for the closest mall to me is at least twenty minutes away via taxi, and I had gotten there in a matter of seconds. I didn't really want to waste my time at a mall when I could be ... well, ANYWHERE! So, I shouted out "I want to go somewhere else". Nothing. I shouted out again. Nothing.

Now, yes, this is my first LD since I visited DVs, but I expected something to happen. Remembering that you can wake up if you get too emotional, I calmed myself down and went into the mall. Instantly, my dream started to fade. I saw my friends just a couple feet away, but i started foolishly spinning anyways. I could hear them laughing as nothing happened. I rubbed my hands together. Nothing. Then I woke up (In reality).

I have come to the conclusion that dreams that are hard to control are usually short, maybe because your sub con. figures there's no point in LDing if you have no control. Tell me, Jalexxi, do you have alot of control over these 15 second dreams?

It may seem unrelated but memory work might help.

When you wake up and the dream is fresh in your memory start thinking of the events of the dreams. Play the dream over and over in your head like a movie serveral times. If you really want to work the memory keep repeating the dream movie all day in your thoughts. That's if you have time for this.

Don't consciously turn your dream into text thought for your memory. Keep it images.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Cheater Of Death+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheater Of Death)</div>

Quote:

---

Tell me, Jalexxi, do you have alot of control over these 15 second dreams?[/b]

---

Average control. I can fly and jump very far, can influence dream characters, but still I'm at some point still driven by the dream. One thing I usually cannot do, for example, is standing still and just thinking. Somehow I always start an action, although I want to establish control and stability first. But even if I do remember to rub my hands or somesuch, it does not improve dream duration, it seems.

<!--QuoteBegin-lucid_touch
It may seem unrelated but memory work might help.

---

Interesting. Yes, I think that may actually work quite well. I will try it.

Well, I've been a constant advocate for the position that Lucid Dreams are constrained for Time, and that those Dreamers who claim that they have had dreams that have lasted subjective years are indeed Dreaming and that they are probably the most extreme liars.

But 15 seconds is short.

But you will have to learn to deal with it.

So instead of wasting your dreams in attempting to find some mechanism for prolonging them, perhaps the better tact would be to practice a checklist that can be executed in 15 seconds or less.

If you have only 15 seconds, then determine on an activity that only takes 15 seconds.

Now, a Dream Guru once told me that even a few seconds of Dream Meditation on the Kundalini Energy would be worth a thousand hours of Waking Meditating. There. Seconds. Many of my best Lucid Dreams have lasted only seconds from the moment of the onset of Lucidity.

Prioritize. Cut the bullshit. Stop wasting time because the time is too short and learn how to budget what time you have. Stop fighting it and learn to accept the program that is given you.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo Volont
Prioritize. *Cut the bullshit. *Stop wasting time because the time is too short and learn how to budget what time you have. * Stop fighting it and learn to accept the program that is given you.

---

Indeed, sound advice. But how about I both follow it and attempt to extend my LD's?
My LD's are so short I the first action I take will be my last in that particular LD. This includes moving. But what I want to do is walk around and meet dream characters. There's a particular building that I want to jump off off in my dreams. Yet most of my lucid dreams start in my own room, and end before I get the chance to even leave my house.

I plan on having many more lucids. If I spend those 15 seconds finding a trick that allows me to stretch to a minute, that will increase my time spent in dreams by 400%. That, and I'm just plain stubborn. I've set a goal for myself to extend my dreams. THAT's my priority now, and my goal in the lucid world.

So, I will follow your advice and continue on extending my LD's in the most efficient way possible. Allright? :D

well iv not realy common with all those names you call how to start lucid drams.
basicly i think its some combination of dild and then wild. i dunno realy.
i go to bed usualy. someone wakes me in mornign 2 hours b4 i would wake up normaly.
i go sleep again and 50% of chanses when i do that i hapen to have lucid dream.
it seam to happen second i realise its dream. when that hapens i instant gain extra high vividness of dream. but am aware i can wake up any second. at will.
so yea usualy that ld-s try rather short. 15 seconds, 30 -2mins. maby a bit more . but every second of prolonging it requires high concentration. or the dream just goes blur and i have to use spin method and then establishing control over vividness again that way i have like chain lucid dreams. 2 mins then stop for half secs lets say, then 1 min or so. every time its harder to remain concentrated and not to go blur. and after some 3-5 lds chain lds i just get tired and wake up usualy by my own will.

i think the reson why those dreams so fragile is becouse im rather close to waking up. i mean its like i know that i got woke up recently and that i cna wake up at will. realy close to actualy sencing reality. if you know what i mean. kinda like on edge. but becouse of that its extreamly vivid also.

i think with some practice i should be able to prolong duration more and more. maby have strenght for more chains. of lds. im still new at this stuff.
if someone can give me suggestion feal plz to post it here also.

Jalexxi what method of inducing LDs are you using?

I have had a bit of a problem with short LDs, but not as extreme as yours.

I use WBTB and MILD, and I've moved my waking time from 4:30 to 3:30.

This has 2 benefits, one I can get back to sleep faster. The second is I believe I am more tired physically at this time, so I am more likely to remain in dream longer.

I did some WBTB where I got up at 6:00 stayed up for 90 minutes and then slept. Almost as soon as I would get lucid I'd wake up.

My longest recent LD was when I woke up at 1:00 am and then went back to sleep..

If you had about 15 LDs that last about 15 seconds each, it is very unlikely that you became lucid at the end of your REM cycle. So it may be inferred that you are breaking your natural REM cycle by being lucid. I seriously doubt that verbal commands will help you with that, as it is very likely that the problem is caused by something not-so-simple, like your brain chemistry.

If you are indeed breaking your REM cycle by becoming lucid you may be lucky. It just so happens that your body protects it's sleep and it is *very* easy to go back to sleep in the first few seconds after awakening. Ever noticed how someone wakes up in the middle of the night opens his eyes or says something, turns over and you can hear him snoring the next moment? This happens because your body protects its sleep. You can use these few seconds to initiate a lucid dream reentry. To do so you focus on the last image of the faded dream and imagine/visualize it. If your body will go back to sleep, the image will come alive and you will become lucid because you know that you will become lucid in this setting. At the same time if you dont have an image in mind, a random one will pop up and it's very likely that you will just doze off.
As an added bonus, you can experience WILD during this short transition from waking to dreaming....

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ev
If you had about 15 LDs that last about 15 seconds each, it is very unlikely that you became lucid at the end of your REM cycle. So it may be inferred that you are breaking your natural REM cycle by being lucid. I seriously doubt that verbal commands will help you with that, as it is very likely that the problem is caused by something not-so-simple, like your brain chemistry.

---

I have gotten lucid at any point in the REM cycle, from when the dream was already going on for a couple of minutes, to right at the beginning using a WILD-like approach. Doesn't make a difference.
What might be causing this is my way of thinking. I think a lot, and pretty fast. It might be that as soon as I become lucid, I all sorts of logical patterns in my brain activate and those conflict with the dream. But that's just speculation. I'm no neuro-scientist. And even if I were that's not getting me any closer to a solution. I need to find a frame of mind or an action which grounds me in the dream.

Quote:

---

Jalexxi what method of inducing LDs are you using? [/b]

---

I get in bed and look at imagery that forms on the back of my eyelids. It helps me remember LD'ing untill I fall asleep, and I just randomly become lucid afterwards. Occasionally, I wake up in the middle of the night and decide to stay awake for 30 minutes to an hour. That usually increases the probability and amount of LD's by a lot. I've also had some WILD-like experiences. I can't say I remained conscious througout the WILD process, but sometimes I'm able to become conscious in the middle of it.

And on another note, I've had four more 15-seconds 1-action lucids since starting this thread.

I have the same problem. Startled when realizing I'm in a dream it wakes me up. There have been instance were I maintained a dream state through shear will. I have also had less that ten times that I woke up. Got up turned off the alarm. Went to the bathroom. Laid back down. Continued the dream like it didn't end.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by benkane1077
Startled when realizing I'm in a dream it wakes me up.

---

I don't really get startled, though. And I don't even wake up. It's just the dream that ends.

You are actually more lucky then for a dream to end than a dream to end in fear.

After I read this thread I had a NLD in which I met the "dream extension team" 8)

In the dream there were at least five guys all in uniforms. They told me there job is to extend the dream.

I told them they were fake :P

They said "No we're real".

I said "No this is just a dream." and woke up.

When I went back to sleep I had almost an hour of extended vivid dreams. There were many obvious DS, and 2 of my frequently recurring DS which normally I would recognize and become lucid.

I share the above not for any advice, but just because I'm interested in the weird responses I get in dreams to things I'm thinking about during the day.

Last night I had an LD, the first part was about 40 seconds, then dream was fading I imagined rubbing hands and got a new scene for about 2 or 3 minutes. (I lost it when I tried an advanced dream control experiment for the first time.)

I continue to use WBTB and MILD with some success. As part of MILD I visualize that when I become lucid I will start rubbing hands if dream fades.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Asclepius
After I read this thread I had a NLD in which I met the "dream extension team" 8)

In the dream there were at least five guys all in uniforms. They told me there job is to extend the dream.

I told them they were fake :P

They said "No we're real".

I said "No this is just a dream." and woke up.

---

Eh, maybe I should try and summon them. :D

Anyways, I've had two more lucids last night. They were both pretty remarkable in the dream extension departement. In the first one, I became lucid by seeing that I had six fingers, although I don't remember what (if anything) sparked the RC. I remembered that I should try to extend my dream, and began rubbing my hands and willing to stay in the dream. I was in a hallway, and started moving. But, after about 10 seconds, it all started to fade and the dream was gone, with me still attempting to rub my hands and trying to hang on to the dream.
The second one was more encouraging. I woke up in my room during the night, and looked at my alarm clock twice, as I generally do when I when wake up in the middle of the night. The time changed, so I became lucid. I started moving down the stairs, but again, the dream ended after a few seconds, and I woke up. Again I looked at my clock twice, again the time varied. An FA. Started going downstairs again, dream ended again, woke up again. Another FA.
This continued for another couple of times, and all in all I must have been lucid for over a minute. Still, I didn't get to do anything but attempting to get out of my house.

I hate looping dreams. When you do wake are you sure to be awake? The Matrix has you.