My Perspective On Dreams (and How To You Can Be A God)

Note: I&#39;m in the middle of totally rewriting this topic. If you&#39;d like to read the old version then <<click here>>

Previously this topic was about how I had gained total control over my dreams, how I had "tamed the beast" that is my mind. Only now do I see how arrogant and stupid I was.


Its not that I couldn&#39;t control my dreams... far from it. I could more or less control any aspect of the dream that I chose.
The root of my previous ignorance lies in how I (used to) control my dreams. I would realize that it was all in my head, think of what I wanted to do, then I would impose my will onto the environment. (by impose I mean I would force it to happen through sheer and massive amounts of will)

The problem that arises when using this method is now obvious to me. By thrusting out total and complete logic ("this is a dream, I am the ultimate orchestrator&#33; This dream exists only because of me&#33; etc.") Your trading the stability of your dream for control. Essentially, your puling out that intrigal part of the dreaming mind that allows the dream to go on. (usually in some small way, that part your killing actually thinks the dream is really happening.)

That said, the pushing technique is still a very useful thing to know how to do. (in case you need to make that pesky nightmarish beast go away) Just don&#39;t depend on it.

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So anyway, I&#39;ve decided to make another multi-method topic. (if you&#39;ve read my WILDing Guide then this should look familiar :wink: )

The way this works is that you hold the "ctrl" key, then press the "f" button. This will open a little box where you can type in text to find on the page. type one of these in and hit enter:


3456 -----&#62; for the "forced control" method.

or

6732 -----&#62; for the "let it happen" method.

<<3456>> "Whoa, its about to happen."</span>

That was a verry good post BillyB.

I would like to point out that nothing we experiance in the "real" world is first hand. The entire world as we know it is in our own heads. The only thing is that while we sleep the external senses that tells our mind what to create is switched off. Something you experiance while awake is a creation of your mind as well.

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see a point in what you've written. And definitely see no sense in the question about reading this helping anyone. Helping one with what? Why are you relaying this and what effect do you expect to achieve?

What you've stated here is what you've logically deduced from experiences in dreams as well as ideas aimed at increasing concentration upon one's senses but I don't see a point aimed at any effect in it. That is the reason for all these curiousity based questions.

Otherwise, however, taking into perspective what you've stated I must contradict it with, once again, objectivity. Wisdom is in objectivity and just as you put much power in the word "want" in your statements I would like to note that the same goes against your statements. Simply because dreams are of such nature to you it means not that a dream realm could not exist if one were to want it to or that it doesn't exist already under differerent circumstances than those that you've analyzed.
I would continue on to the topic of ultimate objectivity in relation to existence as a whole but I prefer not to raise that topic in any discussions.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Merlock
Simply because dreams are of such nature to you it means not that a dream realm could not exist if one were to want it to or that it doesn't exist already under differerent circumstances than those that you've analyzed.

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I would like to congratulate you on making one of the most difficult sentences to understand that I have come across in a while. I think Billy Bob's post brings up a good point--perceptions are heavily influenced by expectations, and if you can learn to control or alter your expectations, you may have interesting results both in the dream-world and the waking-world.

Great post BillyBob.

The way I see it: as you gain complete control over your dreams you realize that they are only a creation of your mind. Then you enter that limbo state where dream reality breaks down like a TV getting bad reception. The only way you can put the reality back in your dreams is you have to believe. Without that belief the world disappears.

“Having to believe” was one of the most interesting concepts that I came across in reading Carlos Castaneda. And from personal experience I have some concerns about maintaining the “real” world if I should loose my ability to believe in it.

--(The Following is The Full Unedited Original Version of This Topic)--</span>

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<span style="color:#3366FF">If you find the beginning to be stupid just stick with it, you&#39;ll be glad you did :)

The ability to see what my dreams are, their guts if you will, has given me the ability to fully understand them, to go deeper into them and see what they&#39;re made of, I have no problem whatsoever walking into my closet of which I do every day and finding the world of Narnia, or the matrix, or a tropical beach on the Caribbean... I don&#39;t have to wish it, I don&#39;t have to imagine it, I just know it. If your interested in this kind of control then read on, ill try my best to explain how I personally see the dream world.

first I&#39;ll start with this picture of a bathroom:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3883/bathroom2cx.jpg

now looking at this begin to imagine yourself in there in a lucid dream, how would you think of it? "This is a nice bathroom", " Wow my mind made this up", etc...

Now that you&#39;ve imagined yourself standing in this bathroom, begin to think about where you are, if you just came out of a hotel into this bathroom then your in a hotel right? wrong..... you see in a dream you never really move, and unless your expecting something it doesn&#39;t happen (if you have a high level of lucidity) thus if you were to walk out the door of that bathroom who says your going to end up in the hotel room you just walked out of? now obviously you would if you just casually walked out because your thinking (subconsciously) "I just walked into this room from the hotel so I go to the hotel again" therefore you would walk right into the hotel due to the expectation brought on from real life, if it were real life then there&#39;s no chance you could walk out of the bathroom and end up on a beach in Hawaii, but this is a dream, and dreams don&#39;t happen in places, so there would be no difference in you walking out into the hotel then there would be in you walking out into the water on a beach. yes, this is impossible in real life but you aren&#39;t in real life, your in a dream, the dream has no restraints, you don&#39;t have to spin to teleport, you don&#39;t have to move to fly, you don&#39;t have to exert any power whatsoever into any actions you do, because you aren&#39;t doing it, you just "are"

now back to the bathroom, why should that water faucet be there at all? why should the ground be there, why should there be walls there? the simple answer is that none of that really exists, its an illusion brought on by your brain to keep your mind busy while it makes repairs on your body, a dream is the farthest thing from a constant environment, its just memories of different experiences put together to create a pseudo reality for your mind to play in, normally in a dream most things are constants, but once the conscious mind wakes up you can begin to realize that nothing is what it seems, if you were to grab that flower on the sink and smell it, what would it smell like? your first thought is it would smell like a flower, when in reality it wouldn&#39;t smell because there literally is no flower, thus you could make it smell like a wet dog if you wanted to just by barely thinking "wet dog" and activating your minds experiences of what wet dog smells like rather than what flower smells like. now put that flower down and touch the sink, think its going to be smooth? again the sink doesn&#39;t exist, until you touch it it has no previous experiences activated saying what its going to feel like, its just an optical illusion, so if you were to touch it expecting it to feel like bread, it would be bread, it may still look like a rock but it will conform and feel exactly like bread

with this in mind you can begin to see that a dream is non existent, all that exists within it is your consciousness, without you the dream is nothing, it isn&#39;t some other plane of existence you visit, its not anything, the dream is you and your experiences, it exists only for you and by you, nothing can visit and take it over without taking "you" over (evil spirits noobs often see) thus if you see a giant 500 ft beast ravaging a town just remember that that beast is only what you make it, if you wanted it that beast could be a small poodle, or a loaf of bread maybe, perhaps even a sheet of Saran wrap, its what you want, and that alone
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now dream control can get extremely boring and make you feel as though you cant have anything that&#39;s challenging in a dream, such as getting into a fistfight with a guy 2 times your size, I personally have found that its incredibly easy to turn things back to normal, just remember that without your input your subconscious can remember many many things about the environment and stuff, you can just comfortably relax on a sandy beach without thinking at all about the fact that what your in is an illusion, in fact it helps you to be able to relax even better because in the back of your mind you know that even if a sea monster were to walk up out of the sea and try to attack you that that sea monster may as well be a hot woman/ man coming to entertain you ;)



I&#39;ll likely add more to this in the future, I hope I&#39;ve helped at least one person through this, truthfully I wrote it to remind myself about the ins and outs of the dream world, if you want to go more in depth about this and practice it in real life before you reach the dream realm with it here&#39;s an experiment:
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tonight (or every night) when you get in the shower slowly begin to notice minute details about the environment, the soap suds on your washrag, the water streaming out of the shower-head etc... and pretend that your in a lucid dream seeing all these things, (I say pretend but I mean really believe that your in a dream) now begin to think about how your mind is creating these things, touch them, smell them etc... realize that the only reason they smell, feel, and look,. the way they do is because your expecting them to, now begin to change there smells and how they feel, (pretend to obviously) notice how easy it is to do this.
do it often if you must, until its extremely easy to expect things to smell/feel/look incredibly different, realize everything around you is not real and without you it doesn&#39;t exist,
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I like how you see the dream world, I've often debated with myself what the dream world really is. Anyway, my point is this: are you saying that by contemplating the reason/function for the soap suds, etc. will help us have more lucid dreams, or are you simply suggesting that we should do it in order to understand dreams better. Because i would like more lucid dreams, please.

The practice thing I talked about is to give you better dream control, to get more LDs I suggest picking a technique (such as WILD, MILD, WBTB, etc..) and sticking with it for at least a month :)

Can some one type it in a way that will not ruine dreaming for me? :)

I am to afraid to read lol :D

All I know you could have typed about your grandmother juggleling chainsaws.

Let me see if I can sum it up as I understanad it.

When you tell yourself that your dreams are nothing but illusions, that they aren't real, then your subconcious mind will stop producing them.

The dream world is not a real place and everything you see is just based on experience. However, telling yourself that can be bad for producing dreams.

That's the way I understood it, someone correct me if I'm terribly wrong.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Neruo
Can some one type it in a way that will not ruine dreaming for me? :)

I am to afraid to read lol :D

All I know you could have typed about your grandmother juggleling chainsaws.

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just read it :P

like wow, i just realized somethin that directly related to your theory okay...

things really are only what we make of them, did u ever read a word over and over only with each repeating time it only makes less sense???

try it, and realize that the word only means to you what you have experienced it as, but when you repeatedly read/say it, its just a bunch of sounds that dont have any meaning

Quote:

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Originally posted by adam10sup
like wow, i just realized somethin that directly related to your theory okay...

things really are only what we make of them, did u ever read a word over and over only with each repeating time it only makes less sense???

try it, and realize that the word only means to you what you have experienced it as, but when you repeatedly read/say it, its just a bunch of sounds that dont have any meaning

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Hehe, it is really easy to advance this idea one step forward: everything around you is not real, there is no individual objects, just a soup of atoms that bend, reflect and absorb certain frequencies of light, there are waves produced in this soup of atoms by particularly large chunks of the colliding with each other, these waves are interpreted as sound. Smell and taste are chemical reactions that excite your nerves that in turn send electrical and chemical impulses to your brain. Tactile sensations are just the deformation of your skin that also excites your nerves :D Everything is pure physics and your brain just puts it together... But the question is : *What's the point* of this way of thinking? To test how far you can go?

Quote:

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Originally posted by BillyBob_001


just read it :P

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Really? Will it make me a god? :) You added that becouse otherwise to much people didn't want to read it, didn't ya? :)

Well I will go ahead and read it anyway. Not like my dreams are That good at the moment. Can't get that much worse.

EDIT:

Well, nice post yes billy. Good way of putting it. But really, I kind of had the same thought (or fact, becouse what you said is true.)

I actually tried 'expecting' stuff around corners and shit. But it didn't work for me. But that's just a matter of dream control. Anyhow... where was I. Yeah..

The 'thinking about how your mind creates everything ( in the shower) sounds like a good way. Besides paying attention to details, what might make dreams more vivid, it's allso a good RC, and if you would do it in a dream you would more Dream control.

In LD's I more 'dream that I know I am dreaming' then actually thinking: Hey I am dreaming. And actually Think. I just Do stuff I would perhaps do in an LD.

anyhow, Nice post.

blah I suck @ making a text. Roffles :D

Don't expect, know.

Excellent post, BillyBob!

I was just thinking about all that today again (because I think about such stuff a lot) and now I came across your post. Now, that's a "coincidence"!

Yes, I agree, this reality and our dreams are pure illusions. They are one and the same thing, creation of our mind to the very last smallest detail.
Sometimes when I get too much into this feeling, it makes me sad and depressed. But then I think, ok, this all seems so pointless, but it also means that I can be the God of my own world here. It's all up to me. If I created some unpleasent situations I can also solve them. I really have the power to change everything!

I like to think about people, they are fascinating. Have you ever walked down the street and looked at this random people? Who are these people? They appear and disappear and I never see them again. Just like in dreams. There's no difference. And if I really pay attention they talk just as much nonsense as dream people.

There is no spoon

Quote:

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Originally posted by adam10sup
like wow, i just realized somethin that directly related to your theory okay...

things really are only what we make of them, did u ever read a word over and over only with each repeating time it only makes less sense???

try it, and realize that the word only means to you what you have experienced it as, but when you repeatedly read/say it, its just a bunch of sounds that dont have any meaning

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That has nothing to do with my "theory"....

dont do drugs kids


anyway yeah, good to see my post is still getting traffic :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Neruo
Can some one type it in a way that will not ruine dreaming for me? :) *

I am to afraid to read lol :D

All I know you could have typed about your grandmother juggleling chainsaws.

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Hahahah. :)

Just be sure to keep an optimistic attitude when reading it. I can see how some people might find it harder to have LDs after reading, but that's because they're not looking at it as a way to help them achieve lucidity. As Billy Bob says, "Just read it."

It explains a lot, though it is a bit confusing. Makes sense though. I think this is something most of us know deep inside, but just don't realize unless something changes that, either by an experience or just reading your post.

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Originally posted by Glorfindel_III
There is no spoon

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:) That's all you need to know about dream control

can't understand how reading it may harm anybody
a novelist perfectly knows how a story is born - how coherence is artificial, how characters are built up and so on
but still he can be fascinated by stories, even his own, and also forget they're artificial. At least, it's so for me (i'm not a professional yet, but i will be :D )

so it's for dreams. everything is false? I know. The f***ing spoon doesn't exist. But it shines, and there's ice cream in it, and ice cream is good, even if it does'nt exist. It's a silent pact with yourself.

Writing stories and lucid dreaming are very similar. Both stories and dreams need to be let a little free to be good ones. The author or dreamer knows it, and decides to leave dreams and stories a little freedom. Just enough to make them nice.

It seems hard to do......

It may have been a month since the last reply, but I am replying anyway casue this is such a good thread.

I re-read this thread last night before goign to sleep and had my first lucid in about 3 weeks.
The situation was that I was outside and a huge storm was coming and I started to run away and everything went slomo and I was like, "Slow motion only happens in dreams, I must be dreaming" and as I become lucid I am in my grandparents house and I am just sort of standing there thinking about how I hadn't lucided for a long time.
Then, this thread pops into my head. I think about how nothing around me is real and I can do anything I want, I decided I wanted to be somwhere else, but instead of teleporting myself, or spinning, or any of that I thought about how everything is built around me, and I just changed my grandparents house into a hotel lobby(literally, the walls just transformed and everything). The lights were a bit yellow so I changed the lighting in the room to be more white. I did all of that just with a little bit of thought and I didnt even have to put any effort into it.
Then I decided I wanted to go check out a bathroom(I know, a hotel and a bathroom like in this thread) so I walked up to a wall and thought there to be a bathroom door there and it just appeared, I walked in the bathroom and I though about how it was a pretty cool bathroom(again like the thread lol) Then I decided that I wanted to spend some time with a certain someone and they just walked in the door, so we spent a little time together. Then 2 big dudes busted into the bathroom and I was like no big deal, but instead of making them just disappear, I decided I wanted to fight them for trying to ruin my lucid, So I punch one into a wall then dropped to the ground and broke the other guys leg, then after this I got too caught up in the fight and lost my lucidity.

so overall, this thread has really helped me, and I think after a few more lucids I should have this whole thing perfected, and hopefully I wont be sucked in by my dream again like this time.