Puzzled

[Domskidan]

Ok so check this out, I can LD perfectly now I know when I'm dreaming from doing extensive reality checks and reminding myself I'm about to dream before I fall asleep. The problem is once I become lucid I have trouble spawning objects people and places. I will try to just think its there and nothing will happen, I'll get frustrated then forget that I'm dreaming and then I will loose the LD. Other times I'll keep reminding myself I'm lucid or I'll try to do something and I'll just wake up. The thing that puzzles me is that I do not get excited and wake myself up, I trained myself to be very calm when I get an LD. So my question is how do I maintain control or at least get something going.

[Ev]

Start with something small. Create an apple, pull something out of your pocket, do some telekinesis. Get a feel for your dream energy. For me control is linked to the "force". Sorry for using star wars analogy, but this is the best way to describe it - sometimes there's force in my dreams and I can have control. Other dreams feel empty and I cant do much. When I can feel the force I use 3 ideas to accomplish something - I imagine something happening, will that to happen and intent that to happen. Then a simple ritual like a hand gesture or a word finishes that act of control. It is very important to have an idea of what you want to do before you start doing that, otherwise you may be caught in a loop trying to accomplish something but not knowing what you want to do, just blindly trying. Small objects can be pulled from your pockets. Larger objects can be found on the ground behind you. You can summon people from doors and around corners - say something like "Enter, [name]" but be strong and confident in your words. Changing places can be done by imagining the place, then shifting your focus in that visualization while letting go of surroundings. You can add or alter details by covering them with your hand and imagining the desired change. I've found that opening your eyes or widening them may have a profound effect on your dream. Beware of closing your eyes tho - sometimes that leads to awakening or "void".

[Leo Volont]

Ok so check this out, I can LD perfectly now I know when I'm dreaming from doing extensive reality checks and reminding myself I'm about to dream before I fall asleep. The problem is once I become lucid I have trouble spawning objects people and places. I will try to just think its there and nothing will happen, I'll get frustrated then forget that I'm dreaming and then I will loose the LD. Other times I'll keep reminding myself I'm lucid or I'll try to do something and I'll just wake up. The thing that puzzles me is that I do not get excited and wake myself up, I trained myself to be very calm when I get an LD. So my question is how do I maintain control or at least get something going. [/b] Its been an Intelligence Test. You have been told that if you could Lucid Dream then you would be able to have Complete Control. Now you are graded on how long it takes you to figure out you have been lied to. Here, read these SCHOLARLY ESSAYS: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/tableof.htm particularly this Essay by Dr. Ann Faraday who documents the fact that all this BULLSHIT about dream control was spawned out of nowhere by a generation of unscrupulous New Age Guru Capitalists: http://www.sawka.com/spiritwatch/selling.htm There is no Dream Control. And if you finally do manage the ability to disrupt and destroy your Dreaming with explosive episodes of 'control', then your Lucid Dreams will be fraught with False Awakenings as your Higher Dream Mind tries to defend itself from all of your successful Control Techniques. False Awakenings is the Way your Higher Mind tries to defend itself from Lucid Control. But go ahead... listen to everybody on this Page who will give you endless instruction and techniques on how to GO TO WAR AGAINST YOURSELF. Jeez, when you go to War against yourself... do you want to win or do you want to lose?

[Ev]

Control is an inherent part of LDing. It exists, the degree of control varies. There's no doubt in my mind that complete control is possible, but I do not desire it, as using it would take a lot of charm out of my LDs. If you examine it, walking and looking around is controlling your dream. That essay you linked deals with a tribe of aborigens, not with western LDing. Leo, I've had quite a lot of LDs this summer. I estimate 40+ episodes in 3 months. I've been using some form of control in all of them and I can only remember ~2 FAs, I became lucid during one of them. Control is a tool that helps you explore lucid dreams, it makes them not scary and comfortable. Control gives you confidence. Knowing that I can defend myself and change places, change light levels, summon people and do all kinds of stuff gives me peace of mind.

[Leo Volont]

Control is an inherent part of LDing. It exists, the degree of control varies. There's no doubt in my mind that complete control is possible, but I do not desire it, as using it would take a lot of charm out of my LDs. If you examine it, walking and looking around is controlling your dream. That essay you linked deals with a tribe of aborigens, not with western LDing. Leo, I've had quite a lot of LDs this summer. I estimate 40+ episodes in 3 months. I've been using some form of control in all of them and I can only remember ~2 FAs, I became lucid during one of them. Control is a tool that helps you explore lucid dreams, it makes them not scary and comfortable. Control gives you confidence. Knowing that I can defend myself and change places, change light levels, summon people and do all kinds of stuff gives me peace of mind. [/b] So you find that it has been a great achievement and a wonderful accomplishment that you have been able to cut yourself off from every influence of the Higher Mind and that your Higher Mind did not care enough about you to contest the loss. Fine. Where once your Higher Mind could give you Guidance from Above and Without, now you are only able to PLAY WITH YOURSELF. Well, good for you.

[Ev]

Leo, you believe that the best way of learning from your "higher mind" is by simply listening and trying to draw conclusions from the dreams you see. But what about initiating a dialogue? Asking questions, asking for clarification on certain issues. Asking for lessons relevant to your current situation? This is my goal at the moment. To establish contact with my subconscious mind, not to play with myself.

[Aneas]

I have to side with Leo on this. I am an Lder of 35 years. The latter part of the journey has been trying to not completely control the dream. I can only say that there is an incredible sense of loneliness that comes with absolute control. I say that because of the amount of time that I spend dreaming (every time I sleep, even if a catnap). The learning process ceases and it becomes a rut. Complete control consists of an absolute awareness of the dream, with no one point of perspective. There are no surprises or revelations. There are times however when it is still theraputic for me to just relax through flight. I have spent the past year setting up a low level ld that allows me to create an illusion which allows me to spend time with my departed cousin with whom I shared an incredible bond. It is a daily task to create amnesia while dreaming because the illusion is shattered at the first hint dream recognition. EV, I will tell you this from personal experience. There will come a point of merger in which the subconscious becomes the conscious, and then, like the song says, One is the loneliest number...

[Ev]

Control is an inherent part of LDing. It exists, the degree of control varies. There's no doubt in my mind that complete control is possible, but I do not desire it, as using it would take a lot of charm out of my LDs. [/b] Why didnt you read my post before posting a followup?

[Aneas]

Sorry, I was not attempting to respond in a negative fashion. I was just using this thread as an opportunity to discuss the downside of absolute control because for many lders it seems to be a goal.

[Ev]

I dont think many LDers will achieve ultimate control, even if that was their goal. It takes a lot of LDs to practice. By the time they get close many will realize that ultimate control may not be worth it.

[Aneas]

I dont think many LDers will achieve ultimate control, even if that was their goal. It takes a lot of LDs to practice. By the time they get close many will realize that ultimate control may not be worth it. [/b] Apparently you are correct in that assumption. If not, there would be no need for this site. I must belong to a very small group of natural LDers because I honestly never had to really try at all. For me it is a natural function, like breathing. I have had people say that they envy my ability, but as they say "the grass is always greener on the other side." Don't get me wrong, I am very appreciative of my gift, but coupled with the fact that I always dream, whether I want to or not , it truly makes for a seemingly very long life. Does that make sense? I would like to believe that your last statement in the above quote would reign true. Unfortuantely, human nature often steers us toward stepping over the edge even though logic dictates that the wiser choice would be to stop. Once we get that first taste of "godlike power" we become gluttonous. On the up side, spending time in "god mode" does give one appreciation for the beauty of randomness and unpredictability that exists in our real world lives.